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[Crawl] First character ever above chlvl 6. Need advice.

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Anonymous
May 20, 2005 9:37:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

So I've played a few Mountain Dwarf Fighters and finally things seem to
be going my way with one of them. He hasn't found any killer equipment,
and he's lost a few scrolls and potions to wizards and priests, but he
seems to be doing okay anyway. I've read some advice here, but I'm still
unsure what to do now... I guess it's "pendulum" time as I've found two
entrances to different branches... the Mines and the Lair. I've been in
the Mines with one previous character, who promptly took a brown
staircase and died of inability to go anywhere. And I've never been to
the Lair.

Where should I go to get some decent axes? When will my god start giving
me items? What should I stash, what should I carry around?


Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

\\ skipping screenshot

Trumdur the Cleaver (Mountain Dwarf)
(Level 10 Fighter)

Play time: 01:52:15 Number of turns: 16379

Experience : 10/6978
Strength 26 Dexterity 9 Intelligence 6
\\ I'm very happy I read here that Intelligence should be increased. I
still lack a few points, but a quaff-tested potion reduced it to 1 after
my first voluntary increase...

Hit Points : 82 Magic Points : 6
AC : 12 Evasion : 10 Shield : 7
GP : 69

You are in the Ecumenical Temple.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is most pleased with you.
You are hungry.

\\ just went there to make a stash after an orc wizard fried some scrolls.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +1,+1 dwarven hand axe (weapon)
b - an uncursed orcish blowgun

k - a +0,+1 orcish hand axe
Q - a +0,+1 orcish hand axe
\\ I have no idea why I keep carrying these around.

R - an uncursed glowing bow
\\ not sure whether to go for the blowgun or bow... or something else
entirely.

Missiles
e - 11 poisoned orcish needles
\\ these make big melee monsters a breeze... love 'em
f - 39 poisoned needles
y - 13 poisoned orcish bolts
J - 12 poisoned arrows
\\ but now I also have these... so...
P - 39 arrows
U - 21 poisoned needles
V - 16 poisoned needles
Armour
c - a +1 dwarven shield (worn)
K - a +1 dwarven chain mail (worn)
M - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
\\ no cloak or gloves or anything yet.

Magical devices
h - a wand of enslavement (10)
o - a wand of fireball
x - a wand of cold (1)
A - a wand of slowing
E - a wand of flame (4)
G - a wand of magic darts
O - a wand of fireball
\\ fireball is scary in tight quarters... I think I may be able to use
it if I go into the mines though, as I hear orcs come in bands.

Comestibles
d - 2 bread rations
j - 4 meat rations
W - a pear
Y - an apple
Scrolls
i - 4 scrolls labeled BYFIL {tried}
l - 4 scrolls of detect curse
n - a scroll of magic mapping
q - 3 scrolls of enchant armour
r - a scroll labeled UM N {tried}
s - 8 scrolls of enchant weapon I
t - a scroll labeled IFYP
w - a scroll labeled QIHYFREPOBU
z - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II
B - 7 scrolls of identify
D - 2 scrolls labeled OSYJOBYJ XO
F - 10 scrolls of teleportation
H - 3 scrolls labeled XEP H F
L - 4 scrolls of remove curse
T - a scroll of paper
Z - a scroll of curse armour
\\should I read-ID some of these with a wand in my hand?

Jewellery
u - a ring of see invisible
v - a ring of poison resistance (right hand)
C - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
N - a +1 ring of evasion (left hand)
\\ I'm really happy with these. Planning to switch in the see invisible
one when I go into the mines... probably for the poison resistance one.

Potions
g - a silvery potion
m - a potion of paralysis
p - 2 potions of heal wounds
S - 13 potions of healing
X - a sedimented inky potion
\\ scroll ID the two unIDed ones?

Books
I - a book of Minor Magic
\\ no spell magic yet, unfortunately... I would like to make this guy a
reaver though (if that's the fighting/conjuration path) provided I
survive any length of time at all.

You have 135 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 7 Fighting
+ Level 12 Axes
- Level 2 Darts
+ Level 2 Throwing
+ Level 6 Armour
+ Level 6 Shields
+ Level 2 Traps & Doors
\\ Should I do anything about these?


You have 9 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.
\\ and the game won't let me 'M'emorize any, either.

Vanquished Creatures
\\ abbreviated...
A hippogriff (D:9)
\\ was a nice armour-training kill.
7 ogres
\\ these have stopped scaring me now. Should they?
2 centaurs
\\ easy when able to close with them... the first one gave me a glowing
bow, the second one poisoned arrows. Nice. Also, lots of food.
An ice beast (D:9)
\\ didn't destroy a single potion
13 killer bees
\\ easy kills with ring of poison resistance. I was really scared when I
met these!
A mummy (D:9)
\\ dropped all my potions before engaging this one, thanks to you guys.
It also cursed my blowgun. Meanie.
Edmund (D:5)
\\ deepest unique yet encountered. Had no trouble with him. Sigmund was
worse, but Jessica, Terrence and Ijyb were pretty much a breeze... I
guess I've been lucky with the tactical situations regarding those.

I've had a couple of close calls, but running away up or down stairs has
worked well. Wands of slowing also help, though I usually wait until
it's too late and one more hit might kill me, so luck with damage and/or
to-hit is also a factor in this character's success.
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 9:37:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Elethiomel wrote:
> So I've played a few Mountain Dwarf Fighters

Good choice! My first character to get anywhere was one of those. And
before long, they were consistently getting somewhere. Then I learned
enough to get going with some other characters too.

> and finally things seem to
> be going my way with one of them. He hasn't found any killer
equipment,
> and he's lost a few scrolls and potions to wizards and priests, but
he
> seems to be doing okay anyway. I've read some advice here, but I'm
still
> unsure what to do now... I guess it's "pendulum" time as I've found
two
> entrances to different branches... the Mines and the Lair. I've been
in
> the Mines with one previous character, who promptly took a brown
> staircase and died of inability to go anywhere. And I've never been
to
> the Lair.

With almost all my characters, I go like this:
Explore the dungeon till I find the lair. Move stash to lair 1. If
that's above DL 9, finish exploring through DL 9. Then hit the lair to
level 6 or so. If I've found poison resistance, use it and try the
snake pit, then the swamp, then the rest of the lair. Then I go for
the mines. But if I ever hit an unusually powerful unique or a many
headed hydra before I'm ready, I abandon that branch and come back
later. The idea is to go to the safest place I haven't conquered yet.
The mines and elf halls are high reward, but far from safe early on.
The snake pit is usually one of the safest places ever IF you have
poison resist.


> Where should I go to get some decent axes? When will my god start
giving
> me items? What should I stash, what should I carry around?

Getting a decent axe is mostly luck. It could happen anywhere. But
the snake pit and orc mines are probably the best bets. You'd really
like a dwarven axe if you can get it, and dwarven axes seem to be more
common in the snake pits than anywhere else. (Since nagas can carry
them. I think orks and elves only carry their own racial weapons.)

Okie will give you stuff when a) you get him really pleased with you,
b) you pray when you weren't already praying, and c) you haven't got
anything from him for a while. What I do is just pray every time my
prayer times out and I'm not in immediate danger.

> Strength 26 Dexterity 9 Intelligence 6
> \\ I'm very happy I read here that Intelligence should be increased.
I
> still lack a few points, but a quaff-tested potion reduced it to 1
after
> my first voluntary increase...

Good move. I just lost a very promising dwarven axe-maniac to
intelligence drain. I think I accidently killed two mummies at once in
the tombs, and they both drained my int.

I'd say 7 is the bare minimum.


> I - a book of Minor Magic
> \\ no spell magic yet, unfortunately... I would like to make this guy
a
> reaver though (if that's the fighting/conjuration path) provided I
> survive any length of time at all.

I've never succeeded in getting a dwarf to be decent as a reaver. I've
made a few glowing nuclear dwarves trying. If you succeed with that,
let me know.
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 10:31:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Elethiomel wrote:
> So I've played a few Mountain Dwarf Fighters and finally things seem to
> be going my way with one of them. He hasn't found any killer equipment,
> and he's lost a few scrolls and potions to wizards and priests, but he
> seems to be doing okay anyway. I've read some advice here, but I'm still
> unsure what to do now... I guess it's "pendulum" time as I've found two
> entrances to different branches... the Mines and the Lair. I've been in
> the Mines with one previous character, who promptly took a brown
> staircase and died of inability to go anywhere. And I've never been to
> the Lair.
>
> Where should I go to get some decent axes?

I don't know about "decent" but the Mines will do for "plentiful." Often
you can then find a decent axe or two among the mess.

> When will my god start giving me items?

Keep Okie "exalted with your worship" for a while, and he'll start.

> What should I stash, what should I carry around?

Anything that's just as useful in a stash as carried around (e.g.
potions of restore abilities) should get stashed. Anything potentially
useful later on, but not likely useful in the stretch just ahead of you
should get stashed. Anything that's useful, but destructible should only
be carried in enough copies to ensure your safety; otherwise you run an
unnecessary risk of losing some of it. E.g. don't carry ALL your Heal
Wounds, but just 3 or 4 (I actually carry much less than that, but I'm
really unusual in that way).

Always have a scroll of blinking (just one) if you can.

> [...] an orc wizard fried some scrolls.

....which is why I say "just one" wit da scrolls of blinking. :-)

> k - a +0,+1 orcish hand axe
> Q - a +0,+1 orcish hand axe
> \\ I have no idea why I keep carrying these around.

Because they're fashionable, of course.

> R - an uncursed glowing bow
> \\ not sure whether to go for the blowgun or bow... or something else
> entirely.

The bow is better for the long term.

> Magical devices
> h - a wand of enslavement (10)
> o - a wand of fireball
> x - a wand of cold (1)
> A - a wand of slowing
> E - a wand of flame (4)
> G - a wand of magic darts
> O - a wand of fireball
> \\ fireball is scary in tight quarters... I think I may be able to use
> it if I go into the mines though, as I hear orcs come in bands.

Not just in 'bands -- they come in other roguelikes too, you know.

Oh! You meant that kind of bands. Yeah, they do. But for a well-trained
axe-lovin' dwarf the best solution will usually be close combat, not the
wand of fireball -- ordinary orcs are as wimpy as they are numerous, and
most of their attacks will just plink off of you. The "bigger" orcs are
another story, of course.

> Comestibles
> d - 2 bread rations
> j - 4 meat rations
> W - a pear
> Y - an apple

In the normal course of exploration, you'll never need that much food.
The only reason to carry that much food is to be prepared for a trip to
the Abyss. It's a good reason, as even though such trips can be made
less likely, there are occasional "unfair" hard-to-avoid tickets to the
Abyss. But all in all, you're still in the phase where it's
exceptionally unlikely that you'll be sent there. In which case most of
that food is honestagod dead weight.

> Scrolls
> i - 4 scrolls labeled BYFIL {tried}
> l - 4 scrolls of detect curse
> n - a scroll of magic mapping
> q - 3 scrolls of enchant armour
> r - a scroll labeled UM N {tried}
> s - 8 scrolls of enchant weapon I
> t - a scroll labeled IFYP
> w - a scroll labeled QIHYFREPOBU
> z - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II
> B - 7 scrolls of identify
> D - 2 scrolls labeled OSYJOBYJ XO
> F - 10 scrolls of teleportation
> H - 3 scrolls labeled XEP H F
> L - 4 scrolls of remove curse
> T - a scroll of paper
> Z - a scroll of curse armour
> \\should I read-ID some of these with a wand in my hand?

Judging only from the scrolls shown there, you still have the following
tricky ID's ahead:

Random uselessness -- scroll-ID this once you see it, so it doesn't tie
up your brain cells.
Fear -- always have a monster around for read-IDing until you've id'd Fear.
Immolation: Sad to say, if you're serious about keeping your scrolls
safe, you'll be wanting to drop every scroll and move 3-4 squares away
for each read-ID except the {tried} scrolls until Immolation has been ID'd.
Curse Weapon, Enchant Weapon III, Vorpalise Weapon -- because of these
3, I'd probably hold a weapon in hand rather than a wand until I have a
strong suspicion that scroll X is the type that's recharging.

Or you can just do some scroll-IDing of scrolls, starting with the
{tried}'s... you're fairly far ahead on scrolls of ID, so you can
probably afford to "waste" a couple.

> Jewellery
> u - a ring of see invisible
> v - a ring of poison resistance (right hand)
> C - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
> N - a +1 ring of evasion (left hand)
> \\ I'm really happy with these. Planning to switch in the see invisible
> one when I go into the mines... probably for the poison resistance one.

1 point of evasion isn't much -- I'd keep the poison resistance in case
somebody pulls a weapon of venom on you. But it's a hard call; they both
fairly unuseful in there.

>
> Potions
> g - a silvery potion
> m - a potion of paralysis
> p - 2 potions of heal wounds
> S - 13 potions of healing
> X - a sedimented inky potion
> \\ scroll ID the two unIDed ones?

Depends on if you know Mutation/Cure Mutation yet. If you do,
quaff-IDing is fine. In any case, you want to know as much about
potion/scroll types as possible as early as possible.

> Books
> I - a book of Minor Magic
> \\ no spell magic yet, unfortunately... I would like to make this guy a
> reaver though (if that's the fighting/conjuration path) provided I
> survive any length of time at all.

With an Int of 8, it will be extremely tough going at first.

> + Level 2 Traps & Doors
> \\ Should I do anything about these?

Zot traps later on can send you to the Abyss. 'Nuff said. Either get
this up, or train Divinations and find a book with Detect Traps in it.

> Edmund (D:5)
> \\ deepest unique yet encountered. Had no trouble with him. Sigmund was
> worse, but Jessica, Terrence and Ijyb were pretty much a breeze... I
> guess I've been lucky with the tactical situations regarding those.

Most uniques after level 3 or so are a piece of cake until you run into
the demon-summoning uniques and the ones with a really strong
conjurations suite, both of which types can sometimes be dangerous.

Erik
Related resources
May 20, 2005 10:31:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

in article d6l3e4$71o$1@domitilla.aioe.org, Erik Piper at erNOikSP@skyAM.cz
wrote on 5/20/05 12:31 PM:

> Anything that's just as useful in a stash as carried around (e.g.
> potions of restore abilities) should get stashed. Anything potentially
> useful later on, but not likely useful in the stretch just ahead of you
> should get stashed. Anything that's useful, but destructible should only
> be carried in enough copies to ensure your safety; otherwise you run an
> unnecessary risk of losing some of it. E.g. don't carry ALL your Heal
> Wounds, but just 3 or 4 (I actually carry much less than that, but I'm
> really unusual in that way).
>
> Always have a scroll of blinking (just one) if you can.

I'd keep two or three. Sometimes killer bees or Executioners or grey snakes
are chasing you, and one blink won't be enough to get you to the stairs, and
they can close the gap from a blink in the time you take a step or two.

[...]

> Judging only from the scrolls shown there, you still have the following
> tricky ID's ahead:
>
> Random uselessness -- scroll-ID this once you see it, so it doesn't tie
> up your brain cells.

It's a waste of inventory letters, but I use inventory letters for stuff
like that until I have an excess of IDs (random uselessness gets U, teleport
rings are X...). So I guess what you do here depends on how much you value
inventory slots compared to ID scrolls.

> Fear -- always have a monster around for read-IDing until you've id'd Fear.
> Immolation: Sad to say, if you're serious about keeping your scrolls
> safe, you'll be wanting to drop every scroll and move 3-4 squares away
> for each read-ID except the {tried} scrolls until Immolation has been ID'd.
> Curse Weapon, Enchant Weapon III, Vorpalise Weapon -- because of these
> 3, I'd probably hold a weapon in hand rather than a wand until I have a
> strong suspicion that scroll X is the type that's recharging.

I dunno... At least early, I think a good wand's more valuable than a couple
plusses on a weapon. I'd probably read everything onto that wand of cold.
EWIII and Vorpalise weapon will still ID, I think, and he's got no weapons
worth enchanting ATM. And really, until he's got a dwarven battleaxe, they
will be, because that should be the goal, and one of those won't be in the
mines.

>> Edmund (D:5)
>> \\ deepest unique yet encountered. Had no trouble with him. Sigmund was
>> worse, but Jessica, Terrence and Ijyb were pretty much a breeze... I
>> guess I've been lucky with the tactical situations regarding those.
>
> Most uniques after level 3 or so are a piece of cake until you run into
> the demon-summoning uniques and the ones with a really strong
> conjurations suite, both of which types can sometimes be dangerous.

Margery, I think, comes with a bunch of Hell Knights and fires 60-point of
damage fireballs. I think she's my least favorite, though Xathau and Boris
are usually scary. And they can all show up in the Lair branches.

--
Jeremey
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 4:14:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jeremey wrote:
> in article d6l3e4$71o$1@domitilla.aioe.org, Erik Piper at erNOikSP@skyAM.cz
> wrote on 5/20/05 12:31 PM:

>>Always have a scroll of blinking (just one) if you can.
>
> I'd keep two or three. Sometimes killer bees or Executioners or grey snakes
> are chasing you, and one blink won't be enough to get you to the stairs, and
> they can close the gap from a blink in the time you take a step or two.
>
> [...]

I've rarely had trouble finding a 1-controlled blink solution even with
these guys; generally the initial blink can enable at least a bit of
teleportation and/or hasting and/or law-of-averages blinking and/or
corking things up with a slower monster, whatever's needed to wrap up
the job. All in all, I'd rather have 1 controlled blink available twice
than 2 controlled blinks available once... though later on the scrolls
become a little more plentiful and carrying multiples becomes more viable.

>>Random uselessness -- scroll-ID this once you see it, so it doesn't tie
>>up your brain cells.
>
>
> It's a waste of inventory letters, but I use inventory letters for stuff
> like that until I have an excess of IDs (random uselessness gets U, teleport
> rings are X...). So I guess what you do here depends on how much you value
> inventory slots compared to ID scrolls.

[...]

>>Curse Weapon, Enchant Weapon III, Vorpalise Weapon -- because of these
>>3, I'd probably hold a weapon in hand rather than a wand until I have a
>>strong suspicion that scroll X is the type that's recharging.
>
>
> I dunno... At least early, I think a good wand's more valuable than a couple
> plusses on a weapon. I'd probably read everything onto that wand of cold.
> EWIII and Vorpalise weapon will still ID, I think, and he's got no weapons
> worth enchanting ATM. And really, until he's got a dwarven battleaxe, they
> will be, because that should be the goal, and one of those won't be in the
> mines.

Actually, both of these involve my preference for saving brain cells
over, well, not saving them. Looking at scrolls of ASDFASDF really,
really bugs me. Which, I'll admit, it mostly just me. ;-)

(Even if I used mnemonic slots, I'd then have to remember my mnemonic
slot system. :-) )

The other thing is, I don't find the one-?oR loss too painful, for some
reason, though I don't really know how to explain it. I guess it partly
has to do with agreeing deep down with Igor D. L. that, after a certain
point, there really does start being enough of everything... much though
I hate to admit it. :-)

[uniques]

> Margery, I think, comes with a bunch of Hell Knights and fires 60-point of
> damage fireballs. I think she's my least favorite, though Xathau and Boris
> are usually scary. And they can all show up in the Lair branches.

If I'm using swords, I absolutely adore Margery, as long as I can safely
take her out. ("MINOR problem..." ;-)) You can usually pick up a demon
blade from her entourage, start enchanting it, and use it 'til the end
of the game. Once I even got a Vampiric that way.

Erik
Anonymous
May 25, 2005 1:26:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Elethiomel wrote:
> You worship Okawaru.
> Okawaru is most pleased with you.

Not any more. I used my wand of enslavement on some splitting-up jellies
on my way down to the Lair (been doing night shifts all weekend, so no
play) so they killed each other, and I figured I'd use my fireball wand
on whatever remained. Since I hadn't done my deity research properly, I
didn't remember that Okie don't like the death of my friends. 1 bunch of
retributive various-giants later, one less best-char-ever. Oh well,
that'll teach me for next time.
!