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My 1GHZ TB CPU is way to hot! Need Advice!

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March 18, 2001 5:01:46 AM

Hey all,

My bro and I each put together a 1ghz Thunderbird system. Specs: 256 pc-133, ibm deskstar, Geforce 2 etc...

We bought a case from www.colorcase.com. Here is a url to the type of case we bought:
http://www.colorcase.com/products/case/translucent/rain...
We both got a black case with a 250 watt Fortune power supply.

Alrighty, we installed all the compentents once we had them all shipped to us and we were off and running... installing Windows and drivers.
Though we both started to experience A LOT of lock ups. A hard reboot was the only way to get the system up again. After a lot of frustration we both think its that these cpus are running way to hot. I obviously don't have much experience with cooling a system and I really didn't plan properly for it.
We just have 1 80mm fan in the front of each case and the power supply blowing out from the back. The Leadtek Geforece 2 has its own fan.

Here are the temp readings I am getting from the Bios.
Current CPU Temp ranges from 39-55C. Around the 40C mark our systems really start to lock up a lot. Current System Temp is around 37-33C.
From what I have read this is pretty hot. Is this true? I don't even know what temp is advised for a 1GHZ TB.

What do you experts advice my bro and I do? We each have a new system that we really can't even use. Do you think this is what is causing the constant lock-ups on our systems?
The lock ups are happening from all different angles, using my cdrw, coping files, playing games, listening to mp3s etc.. I have defraged, ran all of Nortan systemworks programs and they all say everything is clean and good to go.

Also can someone please advice us on what action we can take to get these cpus/systems cool enough to run all day in our room with the hot Las Vegas summers. What is the best cpu cooler we can get for our Slot A cpus. Btw, we both have a Iwill KK-266 Motherboard.

On to the next question. We each have one stick of 256 Micron pc-133 ram.
Now when I power up my machine, the intial read sequence on the right hand side reads DRAM = 100mhz. Isn't that supposed to read 133mhz? How can I changed it to 133? Or am I reading this wrong.

Alrighty, so please everyone advise us if these temp for the cpu and system are to hot and if so, what type of cpu/system fans can we install on Socket A cpu. I need your expert advice as we are both are pretty ingnorant on the issue of cooling a system properly! Btw, the cpu is an amd retail box, so standard heatsink and fan.
Any urls and detailed info would rock!
Thanks for your time and help!

Justin

More about : 1ghz cpu hot advice

Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 18, 2001 5:16:37 AM

I don't think it is your heat, those are pretty standard. It is your 250watt power supply. AMD advises you to have at least a 300watt cause athlon needs lots and so does the geforce2.
March 18, 2001 5:23:39 AM

Hmm, think so?

AMD so the 250 watt Fortune power supply is good up to 1.2 ghz.
What do other people think?
Related resources
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 18, 2001 5:25:54 AM

Iwill kk266, that is a socketA not slot A, maybe you just ment to say socket. You seemed to mention the 'slot' cpu twice but use the iwill kk266? Anyway, to answer your ram question. You have an athlon "b" version, running at 100fsb or 200 if you talk about how the athlons are 'double pumped'. I am not familiar with the iwill bios but there should be settings for that under the memory section. Purhaps owners of the iwill can help you better for this. Also, check to see if your mem is rated for cas2 pc133. If not it is cas3 pc133 and you will have to set that in the memory section.

If you want to get your cooling down still here's some links
http://www.overclockwarehouse.com/products.html
http://www.coolerguys.com
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 18, 2001 5:32:17 AM

yes, sorry about that. It seems that it should be ok with athlon but I'm not sure about combining it with a geforce2.

What you should try is to take out everything but the vid card/cpu/mem and of course keep the hard drive in. Boot up and see if it is stable.
March 18, 2001 5:43:37 AM

I agree with m_kelder, power is most likely your issue as I have a stable setup that runs hotter than yours is running. I had issues every time I installed a 250W power supply with an Athlon and a high performance video card.

As far as the memory, there should be a setting in the bios for memory speed = 133 or 4:3, this is the setting you should choose. Unless you specify, the default on every kt133 motherboard is 100mhz.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=3737" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=3737&lt;/A>
Anonymous
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March 18, 2001 5:56:56 AM

yeah, id agree with dustcliffe here, (yeah, i know its dsutcliffe, but everytime i see your name i think dustcliffe :)  ), anyway, its definitely not heat, when i'd broke my clip on my heatsink i nicked one that didnt really fit the HSF on properly and my temps got up to 55C sometimes, but everything remained rock stable. i breathe easier now its down around 40C :) ......but anyway, my flatmates running a duron700 with a 250watt PSU with no probs, but then she doesnt have all the hardware you guys do. i think a t-bird 1ghz with a big hungry vid card and whatnot like you guys have would really want for a 300W PSU. your temps are fine you see....

___________________________________________

Smoking is a major cause of statistics.
March 18, 2001 8:48:33 AM

Wow, this board rocks...

Thanks for all the insightful help everyone.
So it might be the power supply. I really goofed on getting the 250. What was I thinking.
I do have a question.
Would opening up my case and putting a big fan next to it and seeing if it still locks up, be a good way of testing the heat theory?

Please keep the tips and help up! I will try the ideas in the morning.
Thanks again
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 18, 2001 8:55:32 AM

yeap
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 18, 2001 10:20:37 AM

yeah....and if you can run it on a real cold day or where its really cold or something to make sure you rule out the heat theory.

oh yeah...dont put in the fridge :) 

___________________________________________

Smoking is a major cause of statistics.
March 18, 2001 6:31:51 PM

Thanks for everyones help and advice. We are learning a lot here. Your guys know your stuff!

The reason we think it’s an over heating problem is that the systems are stable for the first 15-25 minutes and then they just start dieing.

We reboot after a hard lock and they will lock up again 3-7 mins after that. Also, my brothers machine just dies. Heres what happens. You do about anything, play a game, watch a dvd, copying files etc.. And the monitor just goes black. The systems power light is still on but the system just locks up. The signal from the video card must lock up or something because the monitor is getting no signal from it. Resulting in a black screen.

Does this lead you experts to think that the power supply (Fortune 250W) is cutting out on over usage or that the system overheats and shuts down? He doesn't have a cdrw like me. So he just has a SB live, IBM deskstar and DVD in his PCI slots.

Something that would really help is an exact model of fan that you experts know works very well with Socket A cpus (1ghz TB). Even if it were the power supply, I would like to upgrade the current "retail" heatsink and fan on our cpus now.

Also, is there a way of adding a second 80mm fan in the black of the case without having to cut a hole for it? On the back of my case it has a long medal area with holes cut all through it. Could I place one on that and have it suck the air out through those holes? How exactly do you place a fan on the back of a case? The company that I bought the cases from said it could handle 1 80mm fan in the front and 1 40mm in the back. I have only 1 in the front. Here is the url to my case: http://www.colorcase.com/products/case/translucent/rain...

Is their a type of heatink and fan that comes with this cooling "gel" on the bottom of the heatsink pre smoothed on. Sort of a all in one combo deal. Please recommend an awesome heatsink and fan for our Socket A cpus. I am totally in the dark when it comes to cooling!

For a test and I going to run our house air-conditioning system for while to get it a lot cooler in our rooms and then open up our cases and put big fans next to them and see if we still get this over heating problem.

I will resurface after that. Anymore helpful insights on the "locking up" and "black screen" problems would mean a lot.

Thanks again everyone for all the help. We really apprciate it!

Justin
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 18, 2001 7:00:47 PM

"experts"....ok now there's pressure on! :) 

ok, for a decent heatsink and fan unit, you cant go past the globalwin FOP38....extremely popular. the only thing about them that could be a drawback is the 7K rpm fan noise is very loud to most ppl. except me, so it seems. i dont notice the noise at all. sometimes i sleep in the same room as one, its about a meter away from my head and it doesnt bother me at all. so if noise doesnt bother you, go with the FOP38!! if you want a quiet computer....ummm....well its been a while since ive looked at HSF's so i'll let someone else on our panel of "experts" answer that :) .

but youre right, the problems you describe do sound like heat. but then again i've never seen the effect of an inadequate PSU before so i dont know what that looks like.

two 1ghz thunderbird machines....veeeerry nice. wanna join my seti team?? :) 

___________________________________________

Smoking is a major cause of statistics.
March 18, 2001 7:05:25 PM

Well initially I had a 250w power supply in my KK266 and when I would move my window around or when the cpu became loaded you could hear the cpu fan slow way down. Besides being iritating that was a sure indication of a overloaded power supply, plus my stablity wasn't as good as I expected. Anyways I bought a 400w power supply, now the fans don't change at all when I load up the cpu, stability is just outstanding. If your cpu is running less than 45c then it is not a heat problem with the cpu. Plus, as any conductor of electriciy heats up, its resistance will also increase. So it is possible with a weak power supply when your system just normally heats up {increasing resistance} the voltage and current is dropped even further to your components causing the crash you see.

Next to your cpu is a jumper which decides your FSB speed, 100mhz or 133mhz. From those two jumper settings then in the bios you can control cpu multiplier (5 to 15x), FSB (100-200mhz) and cpu voltage (1.15-1.85). Make sure your cpu is unlocked before attempting to move FSB to 133 and adjust your multiplier to something low as in (7x133 = 931) to test it out. Then start raising multiplier and voltage to maximize cpu speed. First you have to gain stablity.

This is important: Now what revision motherboard do you have? If you have revision 1.2 then read below.


From <A HREF="http://www.overclockers.com/" target="_new">http://www.overclockers.com/&lt;/A>
Quote:
<font color=red>"IWill Recall"
Ed Stroligo - 3/13/01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: This recall ONLY affects KK266 boards; RAID versions are NOT affected.

Email message:

Recently, we've seen great success in our KK266 motherboard, however with great success also comes responsibility. Our most recent version 1.2 KK266 has had a resistor failure causing multiplier locks when attempting to overclock on ver 1.2 motherboards. This is a hardware issue, and the motherboards must be replaced with modified motherboards. I've attached our news release for all current consumers that have purchased the Iwill KK266, and our resolution. I know many overclockers come to your sites for advice and read your reviews, and I hope you'll help me post this fix for a quick resolution.

Press Release:

March 13th 2001 Irvine, CA - IWill USA Corporation today issued an Engineering Change Notice (ECN) for ver. 1.2 KK266 motherboards.

It addresses the issue concerning a multiplier lock of 8.5 when attempting to manually modify the default multiplier setting.

As a result, any setting aside from the default setting lock the multiplier setting. (e.g. Setting 10X100 is supposed to equal 1.0Ghz, however, it shows up as 8.5X100 equaling 850Mhz).
After a thorough investigation, IWill engineers discovered the removal of the 0 ohm resistor located at R357 (see below) and the addition of a 0 ohm resistor located at R356 (see below) fixes the multiplier issue.

This is an image we took.
IWill USA would like to inform all customers that an EXPRESS RMA form and procedure has been set up to expedite an immediate exchange of all motherboards with the multiplier lock issue.

Modifications for all future ver 1.2 KK266 motherboards have already been made, and a strict quality assurance procedure has been implemented. The RMA request form can be downloaded at http://www.iwillusa.com/rma/kk266.pdf. Please fax back completed forms to 949-753-5489 or email to rma@iwillusa.com.

IWill USA Corp apologizes for this inconvenience and appreciates your patience in this matter.

This is Iwill's image.
____________________

Editorial note: No scorched-earth denials of problems, and ostracism of anyone saying otherwise. No denial of problems for months on end until threatened with legal action, like somebody's MTH on 820 boards.

Just an honest, quick admission, and swift corrective action.

I know, this is very strange to many of you. But don't worry, you'll get used to it. Let's hope it's contagious......

</font color=red>

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 03/18/01 04:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 18, 2001 8:34:57 PM

Mr Man:
Great advice, I am checking it out now. Thanks for the timely help!

Noko: Where can I tell the revision of my MB. Is that read on the boot up sequence? Thanks for all the info Noko.
We are taking it all in.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 18, 2001 10:16:49 PM

Yes the revision says when you first power up

it will say Bios Version a Code name and a Date

If you want to read it

When the ram coutn comes up
on your keyboard push PAUSE its at the top right Pause button
then it will hault the boot up process so you can read it
When you are done
push Pause again or Escape to resume

Also im not sure if anyone mentioned this
but get your montherboard manual and go into CMOS Bios.
and.. Go thru each section and check every setting and make sure that they are all set properly

Then see if you have a new bios update
New bios's usually solt a lot of issues and they will even tell you whats new with the new bios's , fixes, enhancements etc..

My motherboard for my Athlon 800, a Gigabyte 7zm it would take 7 seconds after pushing power to show anything, very long time
i got the new bios and bingo fixed....

If your monitor is dying..
Check and make sure the video card is in securely and also
the plug in the back is screwed in, sometimes they come loose..

Good luck
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 19, 2001 12:12:45 AM

Dood, the 300w is not necessary!!!
Check yer specs, AMD recommends a 250w supply.. it really is a myth

<b><font color=blue>Note to self: Never buy <i>anything</i> without checking with <font color=red>Tom</font color=red> first...
March 19, 2001 12:20:43 AM

I remember my motherboard was Rev 1.1 and I don't remember where on the motherboard it said that. It is printed on the motherboard either on the bottom or top side, sorry for not being more specific. I really do believe a better P/S will help you guys out.
March 19, 2001 12:30:34 AM

Some power supplies are under rated and will work fine with a 1gh Athlon system under 300watts. If your power supply is listed on the AMD approval list for your speed CPU then I would think it would have a good chance of working. Plus the most recent bios for the IWILL KK266 is KK0305 which came out on 5 Mar 01. Also it does look like it was a myth, go figure after I bought a 400w power supply. Maybe I needed one anyways due to my abnormal variations I was noticing on my fan speeds.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 03/18/01 09:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 19, 2001 3:19:53 AM

A bunch of people have already posted...however I have a 1.2 ghz Athlon @ 1.3 and a GeForce2 Ultra and a 250 watt box with no problems.
March 19, 2001 6:17:43 AM

Hi all,

Thanks again for all the great replys and info. Thanks to everyone that told us how to get our dram memory to 133 mhz in the bios. It worked great! You guys rock!

Well, I opened up my case and put 2 small but powerful fans next to my case blowing into the opening. The system never crashed once. I played some games, ran a scandisk on my hd and then just left it on with a 3d nivida demo running for 3 hours. The CPU never got past 33C on full load.

So I guess it is the over heating of the CPU that is causing the lockups. Though I think we are going to get a 300-350 watt AMD approved power supply also.

Now for some more questions:)  How am I going to cool these bad boys with just small fans inside the case.
I know I need to add a 40mm fan in the rear of the case. My current case has room for one 40 mm fan in the back. But for the CPU fan, I am thinking of this one: GlobalWin WBK38 Socket A/370 38CFM.
Here is a link to it:
http://millisec.safeshopper.com/53/450.htm?861
Now it says its the "Newest" one. Also, it says it has the thermal grease preapplied. Would this be a good fan/heatsink combo to get? Would I need to apply another type of thermal grease or would the grease that is preapplied work well enough? Remember we aren't overclocking these cpus. I just want them to be cool:) 

A lot of replys I have been getting say this GlobalWin with the 60mm fan is pretty good. Though very loud. I am not sure, as I have NO experience in cooling a system. I really don't mind it being loud but is their another option to cool this system, without such a loud fan? But I know we need something powerful enough to cool these cpus.

My question is why doesn't the fan and heatsink from the "Retail" Athlon box cool these cpus enough so I don't have to buy a bigger fan? I am not overclocking the cpu in any way. I have the 1 80mm fan in the front of the case and I agree that putting a 40mm in the back is needed....
but it seems odd to me that I HAVE to get a huge fan/heatsink to make this puppy run.

I wonder if the 250 watt power supply has any to do with this. I now one person said that the lack of power to my system could cause more resistence on the inner workings of the cpu and cause the it to heat up more.
What do you all think?

What about the Golden Orb Fan? Would that be a good compremise? This unit here looks pretty sweet:
DU0462-3 (Super Orb)
http://www.thermaltake.com/superorb.htm

In the future we want to be able to pop in a 1.5 ghz TB and put in a Geforce 3. So I am looking for a fan/heatsink that can grow with this. Thats another reason why I think just getting a 300-350 watt Power supply now is a good idea. TO be be able to give enough juice in the future to upgrades.

Alrighty, so thats the high and low end of it.

To review the questions I have for you experts, here they are:

1. Why do we need to upgrade from our "retail" AMD boxed fan/heatsink when they are provided by AMD as comparable cooling solution. Why do our systems overheat when we are not even overclocking them? Is this normal?

2. What type of fan/heatsink should we get for our Socket A 1ghz. We plan to put in a 1.5 ghz when the TB tops out. The golden orb looks good for a nice balance between what we have now and the GlobalWin WBK38.
But you guys know best. What should we do for cooling!?

Thanks for your time and help!
Justin
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 19, 2001 6:38:53 AM

1. The standard whould be able to cool the 1ghz fine but it obviously doesn't. Maybe the case you got doesn't have good air flow? Dunno...

2."What about the Golden Orb Fan? Would that be a good compremise? This unit here looks pretty sweet" They look good but really don't perform too well, if you plan on getting a 1.5ghz you won't want that thing in there that is for sure. Tom has a good review of socket A hsf's
http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q1/010306/index.html
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 19, 2001 7:53:31 AM

Ok well here's the thing..
my power supply is an AOpen 250w power supply, for ages i had a 1.1ghz tbird running on it stable as ya mamma... it was good... Asus motherboard's have this recommendation of 250w supplies, and they're meant to take up to 1.2 and beyond!

<b><font color=blue>Note to self: Never buy <i>anything</i> without checking with <font color=red>Tom</font color=red> first...
March 19, 2001 7:06:39 PM

hehe, I guess my 400watter is way overkill for what I have and in the near future. Is there anyway to measure the power being used from the P/S? That would answer the real power requirements.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 19, 2001 8:12:54 PM

Yeah, it's called prior knowledge... Any power supply, whether it's 250W or 400W (in your case) will provide 11amps or thereabouts... No seriously, do you really think a computer is going to take 11amps of power to run?!

The cpu only runs off less than 2V!!!

<b><font color=blue>Note to self: Never buy <i>anything</i> without checking with <font color=red>Tom</font color=red> first...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 19, 2001 9:50:57 PM

yes but the cpu and video card run off the same power strip, that is why some psu's can't cut it when you add a fast vid card in the mix.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 19, 2001 11:07:36 PM

just a note to farwalker... golden orbs... well.. THEY SUCK!! :o )... but seriously.... for the price, go with a global win FOP32-1 .... Im running a ghz tbird speed, and its keeping the temp down around 18C idle, and 34 under heavy loads for long periods of time.... the fop38 is even better if you dont mind the more noise... btw, use artic silver or some other thermal grease, it will help lower temperatures under loads around 5C

250Watts.. may be enough, but add it up... 85watts processor, etc etc :o )

Old addage: "Users never prosper" :o ) Long live the tweakers
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 20, 2001 1:58:39 AM

Because of simple physics P=IV. P is power (watts), I is current(Amps), and V is potential difference (Volts). If an Athlon processor uses 35 watts at 1.75 volts then by P=IV the core voltage is actualy 20 Amps. As all of you know the higher clocked processors actually use more wattage than this.

May Fortune Favor The Foolish
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 20, 2001 1:59:43 AM

Sorry, the core current is 20 amps.

May Fortune Favor The Foolish
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 20, 2001 10:37:50 AM

Hmm i did not know that, thanks!

<b><font color=blue>Note to self: Never buy <i>anything</i> without checking with <font color=red>Tom</font color=red> first...
!