Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
Has anyone managed to ascend or get very far with assassins?
I enjoy the "tenchu" series of games and enjoy the "stabbing" feature
of crawl, but wonder if it really is a viable strategy in Crawl to
specialize in stealth and stabbing.
In other words, has anybody gotten their character to a high level in
those, and if so, is it useful, or just YASD?
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com wrote:
> Has anyone managed to ascend or get very far with assassins?
My first ascension was an assassin, though I didn't play very true to the class.
> I enjoy the "tenchu" series of games and enjoy the "stabbing" feature
> of crawl, but wonder if it really is a viable strategy in Crawl to
> specialize in stealth and stabbing.
It depends on where you want to go -- in the Hells, for example, you get creatures materialized next to you out of random, and they're all awake, so your stabbing is useless in that situation. But in the situations where a stab is really possible... stabs go GOBS of damage. You have to work for it, though -- make a commitment to wear stealth-increasing gear. You can learn about what increases and decreases Stealth in Loonie's Stealth spoiler under the home address crawl.webpark.pl.
BTW given a bad weapon that increases stealth and a good weapon that doesn't, the bad weapon is better when you're going for a stab (and has a good chance of sealing the deal on those gobs of damage).
> In other words, has anybody gotten their character to a high level in
> those, and if so, is it useful, or just YASD?
It's a lot of dead monsters.
Despite the poor long-term future for darts, you'll want to take your starting poison needle collection seriously, by the way. Ogres will fall before they know what hit 'em.
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:52:37 +0200, Erik Piper <erikNO@skySP.czAM>
wrote:
>Despite the poor long-term future for darts, you'll want to take your >starting poison needle collection seriously, by the way. Ogres will fall >before they know what hit 'em.
Poison in the early game should not be underestimated -- I've killed
big melee brutes by *throwing* poison needles and running when I've
had to with frail characters. And if I can do it, anybody can.
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
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R. Dan Henry wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:52:37 +0200, Erik Piper <erikNO@skySP.czAM>
> wrote:
> > >>Despite the poor long-term future for darts, you'll want to take your >>starting poison needle collection seriously, by the way. Ogres will fall >>before they know what hit 'em.
> > > Poison in the early game should not be underestimated -- I've killed
> big melee brutes by *throwing* poison needles and running when I've
> had to with frail characters. And if I can do it, anybody can.
> Hmmm...
I just got a Lvl7 HuFi blatted by an ogre. Off to bed in a huff.
<Grump>,<Grump>,<Grump>
:-)
Rupert
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
"R. Dan Henry" <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote in message
news:h44sa196tgocgcn7m1spb8luenb6sbhi1j@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:52:37 +0200, Erik Piper <erikNO@skySP.czAM>
> wrote:
>
> >Despite the poor long-term future for darts, you'll want to take your
> >starting poison needle collection seriously, by the way. Ogres will
fall
> >before they know what hit 'em.
>
> Poison in the early game should not be underestimated -- I've killed
> big melee brutes by *throwing* poison needles and running when I've
> had to with frail characters. And if I can do it, anybody can.
Since most scary monsters have slow EV, and most early stuff is
poison-susceptible, this is a very useful early tactic: get a line of
somethings between yourself and Scary Monster, and then throw needles.
Thrown needles are very inaccurate, so you'll probably miss bats and
rats and snakes and such, but your odds of hitting something like an
Ogre are pretty good. There are certain situations where the Hillbilly
Sting is actually more useful than the traditional version.
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
Jeremey Wilson wrote:
> "R. Dan Henry" <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote in message
> news:h44sa196tgocgcn7m1spb8luenb6sbhi1j@4ax.com...
> >>On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:52:37 +0200, Erik Piper <erikNO@skySP.czAM>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Despite the poor long-term future for darts, you'll want to take your
>>>starting poison needle collection seriously, by the way. Ogres will
> > fall
> >>>before they know what hit 'em.
>>
>>Poison in the early game should not be underestimated -- I've killed
>>big melee brutes by *throwing* poison needles and running when I've
>>had to with frail characters. And if I can do it, anybody can.
> > > Since most scary monsters have slow EV, and most early stuff is
> poison-susceptible, this is a very useful early tactic: get a line of
> somethings between yourself and Scary Monster, and then throw needles.
> Thrown needles are very inaccurate, so you'll probably miss bats and
> rats and snakes and such, but your odds of hitting something like an
> Ogre are pretty good. There are certain situations where the Hillbilly
> Sting is actually more useful than the traditional version.
> > --
> Jeremey
This doesn't apply only to the Hillbilly Sting, either -- it's a helpful tactic for use with ANY relatively inaccurate ranged attack (stone arrow is a good example -- though it's more accurate than the Hillbilly Sting, it's still quite fireable at centaurs through bats, for instance).
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
Yes, the assassin's poison needles with blowgun are quite effective,
which is why they come in limited supply
Jeremey Wilson wrote:
> "R. Dan Henry" <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote in message
> news:h44sa196tgocgcn7m1spb8luenb6sbhi1j@4ax.com...
> There are certain situations where the Hillbilly
> Sting is actually more useful than the traditional version.
by "Hillbilly Sting", do you mean throwing the needles?
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com wrote:
> Yes, the assassin's poison needles with blowgun are quite effective,
> which is why they come in limited supply
On the other hand, they're really light, so is the blowgun, and by level 2 or 3 you're running into the occasional needle trap, not to mention needle-armed kobolds.
> Jeremey Wilson wrote:
> >>"R. Dan Henry" <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote in message
>>news:h44sa196tgocgcn7m1spb8luenb6sbhi1j@4ax.com...
>> There are certain situations where the Hillbilly
>>Sting is actually more useful than the traditional version.
> > > by "Hillbilly Sting", do you mean throwing the needles?
He does. If you're not playing an assassin, you often get the chance to throw needles a while before you can blow them. 'Course you look like a hillbilly doing it...
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
I think assassins and stalkers are two of the easiest classes of all.
It's true that their poison abilities become pretty much obsolete in
the late game, but at least the assassin has a developed throwing
skill, and the stalker has a developed conjuration skill. And Sure
Blade, Projected Noise and Mephitic Cloud are all terrifc, IMHO. But
back to assassins: the blowgun makes it possible to make it to the
middle game with pretty good certainty. And then the emphasis on
stealth and stabbing really pays off. You just waltz around stabbing
entire levels. Also, by then you've got your magic going, presumably
with an enchantments bent. Projected Noise, Sure Blade, HIbernation,
the various Air/Enchantment buffs, especially Levitation, and
definitely a confusion spell of some sort. Confusing Touch is awesome
on an assassin if you've taken the time to get your Unarmed skill
going.
I'd say the only real reason it's hard to actually win with an
assassin is because it takes eternal vigilance. It gets so easy by the
time you're cleaning up the Vaults and lower levels that you get cocky,
drop your guard, allow yourself to lose half your hit points, and let
your attention lapse for a moment. At which point, of course, an Iron
Troll stumbles into you and kills you by mistake. You're all worn out
by then, anyway, because the game has taken much much longer as usual,
since you're always spending your xp on Stealth.
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)
Britto wrote:
> I think assassins and stalkers are two of the easiest classes of all.
They *are* pretty good, aren't they?
Of course, we shouldn't get carried away talking about "classes," since anybody can pick up a short sword and light armour and, somewhat later, a blowgun, and essentially become an assassin. But of course it's ideal to start out already fitted for the job, like the Assassin class is.
There's also the large importance of race here, and this is much more than an academic question; a deep elf assassin might rely heavily on their wonderful starting hand crossbow and pray every turn for a first spellbook to show up, a naga assassin might invest heavily in their cheap stealth and rely on poison spit and more than usual on stabbing to make sure they never have to run (since they can't run anyway), a hill orc assassin might turn off stabbing and even stealth itself and switch to long blades when they arrive, a halfling might above all concentrate on becoming a walking cuisinart and consider the stealth/stabbing to be just icing on the cake, and many more variations for the other races.
> It's true that their poison abilities become pretty much obsolete in
> the late game,
It really isn't a problem, just like you say. You can always just turn off poison magic and let Conjurations carry the bulk of the burden of casting con/poison spells. Same with darts -- you'll be needing a surplus of throwing skill for your later "real" missile skill anyway, since if they both start at 0, the missile skill quickly becomes "too high."
[...]
> back to assassins: the blowgun makes it possible to make it to the
> middle game with pretty good certainty.
Takes a little finesse on the part of the player, though -- it's definitely a more complicated opening that the pure fighter's opening. But with that finesse, it's definitely a great little life insurance policy. I had tremendous trouble getting started with a "kobold berserker" when I was doing a berserker/evoker project a while back, until I finally tried out the assassin class for the job -- and suddenly openings were whooshing by smoothly, and it didn't take too many of them to go ahead and YAVP.
[...]
> I'd say the only real reason it's hard to actually win with an
> assassin is because it takes eternal vigilance.
Depends on the style... if you're playing the assassin true to the role, definitely, but if you're playing something that works mostly like a superb shortblades specialist, you might have also built up a lot of fighting in the meantime, so you're quite close to a normal fighter in terms of HP reserves.
[...]
> Troll stumbles into you and kills you by mistake. You're all worn out
> by then, anyway, because the game has taken much much longer as usual,
> since you're always spending your xp on Stealth.
....unless you aren't. ::--)
(That's a smiley who was caught off guard in the Vault by a great orb of eyes.) :-)
