[Crawl] First attempt

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Just installed Crawl, and got slain by a Unique. Basically, a scroll of
blinkingg, potion of healing, the wand of cold were learned about. Found
two magical items early, but didn't help that much against a wand of
lightning.

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Sluggo the Basher (Human)
(Level 6 Fighter)

Play time: 00:25:32 Number of turns: 3803

Experience : 6/473
Strength 15 Dexterity 14 Intelligence 10
Hit Points : -10/46 (dead) Magic Points : 5
AC : 11 Evasion : 8 Shield : 5
GP : 46

You are on level 5.
You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +1,+2 hammer of protection (weapon)
b - a +4,+1 elven dagger of draining
e - a +0 dagger
i - a +0 dwarven hand axe
j - a +0 mace
n - a +2,+0 elven dagger
s - a +0 knife
Armour
c - a +0 shield (worn)
h - a +0 orcish cloak (worn)
p - a +0 banded mail
D - a +0 scale mail (worn)
I - a +0 pair of gloves
Magical devices
F - a wand of cold (6)
Scrolls
g - a scroll of blinking
o - 5 scrolls of teleportation
q - a scroll of fear
r - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II
u - a scroll of random uselessness
v - 3 scrolls of detect curse
w - a scroll of identify
B - 4 scrolls of remove curse
C - a scroll of forgetfulness
H - a scroll of curse armour
K - a scroll of enchant armour
Jewellery
x - a ring of see invisible
y - an amulet of clarity
Potions
d - a potion of cure mutation
f - a potion of paralysis
k - a potion of invisibility
l - 10 potions of healing
m - a potion of heal wounds
t - a potion of restore abilities
z - 3 potions of speed
A - a potion of gain dexterity
E - 2 potions of levitation
G - a potion of confusion
J - a potion of degeneration


You have 142 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 3 Fighting
+ Level 5 Maces & Flails
+ Level 2 Throwing
+ Level 2 Armour
+ Level 3 Shields


You have 5 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Whenever you have 5 or more un-id'd potions in your inventory, go to a
part of the level you've explored and start drinking... but only if you
dont know what a ! of poison/degeneration/strong poison is i suggest
you keep a !of healing with you while doing so. With scrolls, you
should always go down to a new level when reading new ones. You never
know when a ?of forgetfulness will wipe your current dungeon level
memory.

Zap wands at least twice, once at a monster, and once at a wall. When
reading scrolls and you dont know what a ?of recharging looks like,
weild a wand to restore it's charges. ID wands if you want to know
exactly how many charges are in it, otherwise dont bother. If you're
low on health, you can't really be worse off if you zap a wand at the
enemy, so do it.

Weild weapons which fall in line with your Skills, unless you want to
learn that weapon's skill; dump the things you can't effectivly use,
except for the good ones (electrocute, flame, drain, etc) as their
abilities can be helpful. You were skilled in Maces/Flails, so next
time try to get the best mace you can. Also, dont bother boosting stats
which arn't in line with your weapon and skills. Dont boost Int. on a
fighter that can't cast spells; dont boost dex on a character that uses
str. oriented maces.


And dont bother giving your characters proper names until you feel you
can win. I have at least 120 characters which died above dungeon level
10 in my bones file.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> writes:

>dito, quaff-id those. Start from the least numerous so you test
>degeneration and poison before restore ability and healing Wasting
>gain-foo and cure-mutation early is irrelevant when you die before
>meeting mutagenic monsters anyway.

Is there a point I'm missing about quaff-identifying potions that you
only have one copy of? There must be, because everyone seems to be
doing it.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Raymond Martineau wrote:
> Just installed Crawl,

Welcome aboard!

> and got slain by a Unique.

Happens to everybody.

> Basically, a scroll of
> blinking, potion of healing, the wand of cold were learned about.

Which did not at all need to be the case.

Usage-ID much, MUCH more aggressively in the future. Consider the first
copy of any potion or scroll you obtain to be a throwaway for ID
purposes; the sacrifice is very small compared to the power of knowing
what's what. There's simply not enough scrolls of ID in Crawl to waste
them on potions and scrolls, except in very specific circumstances (e.g.
you haven't determined Teleportation and you need to know it Right Now;
you were lucky and got 3 ID's from a scroll and don't know what to do
with them).

All potions self-ID on first use. Thus quaff-ID potions whenever you
have a quiet moment (in case they're Slowing or Paralysis). Try to eiter
have roughly 25 HP or more or to have a !oHealing or Heal Wounds on hand
when quaff-ID'ing potions picked up on DL2 or below until you've ID'd
Poison; this can otherwise be an instadeath.

There's one potion that's extremely rare and extremely valuable in the
endgame -- Cure Mutation -- and because of it, some people scroll-ID
potions from the time Healing and Heal Wounds are learned until Cure
Mutation is learned. However, to even *reach* the endgame, it helps to
have passed the *opening*, and you'll succeed in that better if you
don't have to choose between splurging your precious ID on potions and
wandering around not knowing you have a !oMight, !oSpeed, etc.

!oHealing will *not* help with !oDegeneration; you want
!oRestoreAbilities for that.

Many scrolls only self-ID in situations that where they have an effect,
so I like to set up the following self-ID's artificially before getting
started scroll-reading:

- Remove Curse (wield/wear something cursed, by aggressively
wield-testing weapons of your planned type)
- Detect Curse (carry something with unknown curse status)
- Foo Weapon (wield a weapon)
- Fear (have a monster in view)

There's other stuff to keep in mind regarding scroll ID, but the above
is already enough to keep your brain overloaded for a while, I think.

Contrary to what Mechanoid said (sorry, Mechanoid!), don't worry about
?oForgetfulness; that's why God gave us Ctrl-O. (I assume you're using
the Darshan patch; if you aren't, start doing so immediately.)

> Found two magical items early, but didn't help that much against a
> wand of lightning.

Scrolls of blinking do. They're so precious and powerful they only make
sense to use in situations where not using them will kill you. This is
one of them; with low evasion, low HP, and no ResElec, you're toast
against lightning. Then come back later with enough HP to soak up a bolt
and a powerful attack like berserking or a wand of fire, cold,
lightning, or draining and take down the unique in a hurry so he hasn't
time to kill you.

> Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.
>
> Sluggo the Basher (Human)
> (Level 6 Fighter)

If you want an easier game as a beginner, take a more specialized race,
preferably a fighter-specialized race playing a fighter class. Humans
are a Jack of All Trade race, whereas Minotaurs for example trade off
low MP and horrible magic skill aptitudes (so just don't use magic,
then) for good HP and insanely great fighting skill aptitides.

(Fighters in Crawl are no worse at learning magic than wizards are. It's
*race* that determines skill aptitudes, that is, how much XP it takes to
raise a skill, after counting in other factors.)

> Inventory:
> Hand weapons
> a - a +1,+2 hammer of protection (weapon)
> b - a +4,+1 elven dagger of draining

Frankly, since you don't have Short Blades skill and you shouldn't want
it either (to oversimplify, you want *one* weapon skill), a +0 knife is
better than that silly thing because it doesn't spam the message area,
leaving your attention more focused on the important stuff.

> Armour
> c - a +0 shield (worn)

All in all, shields are fairly weak, although maces are among the things
where they are strongest. Maces are (to oversimplify) STR-weighted and
shields like you to have lots of DEX, though, although you should take
talk about weapon STR/DEX weightings with a grain of salt, as these are
merely important, not all-important.

> I - a +0 pair of gloves

Whoops! You should've had these on.

> Magical devices
> F - a wand of cold (6)

You were halfway to being able to take out that unique, just needed the
HP buffer. With a minotaur, you would've already had it.

> Scrolls
> g - a scroll of blinking
> o - 5 scrolls of teleportation
> q - a scroll of fear
> r - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II
> u - a scroll of random uselessness
> v - 3 scrolls of detect curse
> w - a scroll of identify
> B - 4 scrolls of remove curse
> C - a scroll of forgetfulness
> H - a scroll of curse armour
> K - a scroll of enchant armour

Once you find the Temple (a safe place to store things since no monsters
are generated there), you'll want to store a reserve of scrolls there in
case you get hit hard by scroll-burning fire attacks. For example,
personally I only carry 2-3 teleportation scrolls, for instance, though
I'm fairly radical in this compared to most people so you may want to
take this with a grain of salt.

For the above reason, scrolls that are as useful in a stash as they are
in your backpack firmly belong in said stash, e.g. Enchant Weapon II.

> Jewellery
> x - a ring of see invisible
> y - an amulet of clarity

Wear-test rings always (unless you're out of Remove Curse or saving up
for a big Detect Curse run or something). Wear-test amulets always once
you've ID'd "oInaccuracy; until then, wear-test them long enough to try
eating when not hungry; you might get a pleasant surprise.

If you wear-test a ring and it's cursed, check your invocations menu
("a") immediately so you know if it's Teleportation.

Rings and amulets are where the bulk of your ID should go.

> Potions
> d - a potion of cure mutation
> f - a potion of paralysis
> k - a potion of invisibility
> l - 10 potions of healing
> m - a potion of heal wounds
> t - a potion of restore abilities
> z - 3 potions of speed
> A - a potion of gain dexterity
> E - 2 potions of levitation
> G - a potion of confusion
> J - a potion of degeneration

Again, you'll really want to have all these stacks quaff-ID'd long, long
ago (shame about the !oCM, but that's life -- life as in
perhaps-living-through-that-unique-due-to-having-ID'd-!oSpeed). And once
you reach the Temple, you'll want to stash part of the Healing, Speed, etc.

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> writes:

>There's one potion that's extremely rare and extremely valuable in the
>endgame -- Cure Mutation -- and because of it, some people scroll-ID
>potions from the time Healing and Heal Wounds are learned until Cure
>Mutation is learned.

I am one of those people. However, stacks of 3 or more potions can usually
be identified by usage. The probability is quite low that you would find
so many Cure Mutation potions in the early game and even if you did, the
loss of one is not such a big deal in that case.

Besides, there's no point in quaff-identifying single potions anyway, right?

>Wear-test amulets always once you've ID'd "oInaccuracy; until then, wear-test
>them long enough to try eating when not hungry; you might get a pleasant surprise.

.... to try eating chunks of meat, you mean.

> > Potions
> > d - a potion of cure mutation
> > f - a potion of paralysis
> > k - a potion of invisibility
> > l - 10 potions of healing
> > m - a potion of heal wounds
> > t - a potion of restore abilities
> > z - 3 potions of speed
> > A - a potion of gain dexterity
> > E - 2 potions of levitation
> > G - a potion of confusion
> > J - a potion of degeneration

>Again, you'll really want to have all these stacks quaff-ID'd long, long
>ago (shame about the !oCM, but that's life -- life as in
>perhaps-living-through-that-unique-due-to-having-ID'd-!oSpeed).

But there would be no point in quaffing a single unknown potion, so the
cure mutation is saved until another is found, or it is identified by a
scroll. Speed would have been identified, with 2 potions left for actual
needed usage.

There is the gain dexterity potion, which would be good for single potion
quaffing, but the wasted cure mutation is in my opinion a more important
factor.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rupert Swarbrick wrote:
> Mechanoid wrote:
>
>>If you're
>>low on health, you can't really be worse off if you zap a wand at the
>>enemy, so do it.
>
> Unless, of course, its a wand of hasting on an orc knight when you're
> already slowed. 80hp in one turn...
>
> Rupert

That's why you don't zap-test wands based on being low on health, but
rather based on the first weak-to-average monster you see after picking
up the wand. The weakness will help resistable wands self-ID faster, too.

Mechanoid... zap-testing against a wall because it didn't self-ID is a
waste of a charge on a wand of digging or a wand of healing, a valuable
and a priceless wand respectively. If it neither does something visible
nor gives a resistance message on first-zap, just go ahead and scroll-ID it.

Erik

 

[Loonie]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jukka Kuusisto fpppffppffmpmpp:

>>dito, quaff-id those. Start from the least numerous so you test
>>degeneration and poison before restore ability and healing Wasting
>>gain-foo and cure-mutation early is irrelevant when you die before
>>meeting mutagenic monsters anyway.
>
> Is there a point I'm missing about quaff-identifying potions that you
> only have one copy of? There must be, because everyone seems to be
> doing it.

I don't do that, so according to your reasoning there needn't be a reason.
IMO there is no point in getting rid of a potion, when you have no
profit from information. It may be useful in times of desperation, when in
need of even the slightest chance that the single un-id potion is speed,
berzerk, heal wounds,etc.

--
Greetings,
Loonie
---------------------------------
De profondis clamo ad te, Domine.
www.crawl.webpark.pl

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Loonie <loonie3@tlen.pl> writes:

>IMO there is no point in getting rid of a potion, when you have no
>profit from information. It may be useful in times of desperation, when in
>need of even the slightest chance that the single un-id potion is speed,
>berzerk, heal wounds,etc.

Yes, in an emergency it is well understandable. I'm sure we've all been there
and done that. Otherwise, it's just a waste of a potion.

Scrolls are a bit different, because there are the enchantment scrolls that
are nice to use immediately and none of the scrolls are so valuable that
wasting one would feel too bad. (Acquirement would, but it isn't wasted.)

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jukka Kuusisto wrote:
> Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> writes:
>
>
>>dito, quaff-id those. Start from the least numerous so you test
>>degeneration and poison before restore ability and healing Wasting
>>gain-foo and cure-mutation early is irrelevant when you die before
>>meeting mutagenic monsters anyway.
>
> Is there a point I'm missing about quaff-identifying potions that you
> only have one copy of?

Only the fact that the healing potions are more plentiful than the other
ones, so by going from least to most copies you probably drink the bad
potion before the good one that will neutralize it. The same for
scrolls: You know that the most plentiful scrolls will probanbly be ID,
teleport, remove curse, so you might also want to read-test them from
bottom up (just to have something cursed when you come to the ?oRC).

Lars

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> writes:

>Only the fact that the healing potions are more plentiful than the other
>ones, so by going from least to most copies you probably drink the bad
>potion before the good one that will neutralize it.

But why drink the single potion at all? The only reason I can think of
is being worried about item destruction. If the single potion get destroyed,
it won't help in identifying other potions of the same type. For me, this
reason isn't enough to compensate.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jukka Kuusisto wrote:
> Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> writes:
>
>
>>dito, quaff-id those. Start from the least numerous so you test
>>degeneration and poison before restore ability and healing Wasting
>>gain-foo and cure-mutation early is irrelevant when you die before
>>meeting mutagenic monsters anyway.
>
>
> Is there a point I'm missing about quaff-identifying potions that you
> only have one copy of? There must be, because everyone seems to be
> doing it.
>
> -Jukka

There are several. First off, if it's a common or semi-common type, you
won't have just one copy forever, so I wouldn't be so worried about the
number one. Next, it's one less thing to remember to do later; the
ID-immediately reflex is extremely easy to work with. It's less weight
to carry. It's less chaos in your inventory when you go to inspect your
options in a life-or-death situation. The potion could get destroyed by
a shower of frost bolts from one of the many orc wizards littering the
early dungeon, leaving you without it for ID, actual planned use, or
anything else until you run into that second copy you mention... which,
if it's that !oCM you're concerned about, probably won't be for a while.

And Lars is spot-on -- in order to care about the endgame, you have to
survive until the endgame, and faster potion ID helps with that.

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> writes:

>There are several. First off, if it's a common or semi-common type, you
>won't have just one copy forever, so I wouldn't be so worried about the
>number one.

So quaff one of them when you have two of them.

>Next, it's one less thing to remember to do later; the
>ID-immediately reflex is extremely easy to work with. It's less weight
>to carry. It's less chaos in your inventory when you go to inspect your
>options in a life-or-death situation.

These aren't good enough points in my opinion.

>The potion could get destroyed by a shower of frost bolts from one of the
>many orc wizards littering the early dungeon, leaving you without it for ID,
>actual planned use, or anything else until you run into that second copy you
>mention... which, if it's that !oCM you're concerned about, probably won't be
>for a while.

This is a fair point, but personally I still find it generally better to save
the potion until you have more of them, or use a scroll if the most common
potions have already been identified. I don't see so many orc wizards outside
the Mines in the early game...

>And Lars is spot-on -- in order to care about the endgame, you have to
>survive until the endgame, and faster potion ID helps with that.

But wasting single potions doesn't help at all.

Well, I won't try to force anyone to change their playing style. I was just
interested to hear if there was something I was missing about identifying
potions. I'll continue the way I used to do.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jukka Kuusisto wrote:
> Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> writes:
>
>
>>There are several. First off, if it's a common or semi-common type, you
>>won't have just one copy forever, so I wouldn't be so worried about the
>>number one.
>
>
> So quaff one of them when you have two of them.

But why on earth wait?

>>Next, it's one less thing to remember to do later; the
>>ID-immediately reflex is extremely easy to work with. It's less weight
>>to carry. It's less chaos in your inventory when you go to inspect your
>>options in a life-or-death situation.
>
> These aren't good enough points in my opinion.

And in mine, they're all very important advantages of immediately
usage-IDing potions.

>>The potion could get destroyed by a shower of frost bolts from one of the
>>many orc wizards littering the early dungeon, leaving you without it for ID,
>>actual planned use, or anything else until you run into that second copy you
>>mention... which, if it's that !oCM you're concerned about, probably won't be
>>for a while.
>
> This is a fair point, but personally I still find it generally better to save
> the potion until you have more of them, or use a scroll if the most common
> potions have already been identified. I don't see so many orc wizards outside
> the Mines in the early game...
>
>
>>And Lars is spot-on -- in order to care about the endgame, you have to
>>survive until the endgame, and faster potion ID helps with that.
>
>
> But wasting single potions doesn't help at all.

You're not wasting it; you're using it for an extremely useful purpose
-- ID.

> Well, I won't try to force anyone to change their playing style. I was just
> interested to hear if there was something I was missing about identifying
> potions. I'll continue the way I used to do.
>
> -Jukka

Fair enough!

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> writes:

>Jukka Kuusisto wrote:
>> So quaff one of them when you have two of them.

>But why on earth wait?

Oh, I see that my comment doesn't make much sense without elaborating more
(I should've done this in the previous post, I know):
Personally, if I haven't found another potion by the time I have a usable identify
scroll (and no unidentified jewelry), I will then use the scroll on the single
potion (of course, assuming that the most common potions have been identified).
Otherwise, there would be no point in waiting, you're right, of course.

>> But wasting single potions doesn't help at all.

>You're not wasting it; you're using it for an extremely useful purpose
>-- ID.

Fair enough, if you want to save the scrolls in any case. I just hate losing
cure mutation.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jukka Kuusisto wrote:
> Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> writes:
>
>
>>Only the fact that the healing potions are more plentiful than the other
>>ones, so by going from least to most copies you probably drink the bad
>>potion before the good one that will neutralize it.
>
>
> But why drink the single potion at all? The only reason I can think of
> is being worried about item destruction. If the single potion get destroyed,
> it won't help in identifying other potions of the same type. For me, this
> reason isn't enough to compensate.
>
> -Jukka

I'm terribly sorry to harp on this, but consider Player a and Player B.
Both receive a potion of speed on DL3, and another on DL4. Player A
immediately quaff-tests all potions, and Player B always waits for a
pile of two. The differences between them seem to be this (please do
correct me if I'm being too subjective below):

Player A:
- is more likely to have accidentally drunk a potion of cure mutation in
the meantime or to do it in the future
- had an period on DL3 where he was benefitting from a potion of speed
without having planned for it and probably wasn't needing it
- had less risk of having lost a potion of speed to a frost blast
- was carrying a little less weight
- has more signal and less noise in his inventory listing
- could use the simple equation "new potion type --> time to ID"
- now has one, identified potion of speed

Player B:
- is less likely to have accidentally drunk a potion of cure mutation in
the meantime or to do it in the future
- had a period on DL4 where he was benefitting from a potion of speed
without having planned for it and probably wasn't needing it
- had more risk of having lost a potion of speed to a frost blast
- was carrying a little more weight
- has more noise and less signal in his inventory listing
- had to check every time he got a potion if it isn't perhaps the second
of the given type
- now has one, identified potion of speed

I like Player A's equation better. Note that I'm not a total fanatic
about the !oCM issue -- if the period without that type being ID'd
stretches out past DL4 or so, I often start scroll-ID'ing potions...
always the moment it arrives if possible, though.

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Quoting Jukka Kuusisto <jkuusist@cc.hut.fi>:
>Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> writes:
>>Next, it's one less thing to remember to do later; the
>>ID-immediately reflex is extremely easy to work with. It's less weight
>>to carry. It's less chaos in your inventory when you go to inspect your
>>options in a life-or-death situation.
>These aren't good enough points in my opinion.

Well, the weight's always an issue, but I certainly don't get the "chaos
in inventory" one. Did Crawl go real-time while I wasn't looking?

Far better to save the singleton and then in a life-or-death situation you
have the option to gamble on it - not a good one, given the likely
identities of potions you have low numbers of, but...
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Friday, Presuary.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:

> Well, the weight's always an issue, but I certainly don't get the "chaos
> in inventory" one. Did Crawl go real-time while I wasn't looking?

Even in a thinking man's game, what would you rather be thinking about:

a blue potion a red potion a pink potion a gluggy blue potion a purple
potion a green potion an indigo potion a potion of speed a fizzy black
potion a white potion a glowing blue potion a bubbling green potion

or

a potion of speed?

(OK, I'm exaggerating.)

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Quoting Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz>:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>Well, the weight's always an issue, but I certainly don't get the "chaos
>>in inventory" one. Did Crawl go real-time while I wasn't looking?
>Even in a thinking man's game, what would you rather be thinking about:
>a blue potion a red potion a pink potion a gluggy blue potion a purple
>potion a green potion an indigo potion a potion of speed a fizzy black
>potion a white potion a glowing blue potion a bubbling green potion
>or
>a potion of speed?

The former. I know the potion of speed's there and I have all the backup
options to try if I really have no good answer. What's the problem.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Friday, Presuary.

 

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David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz>:
>
>>David Damerell wrote:
>>
>>>Well, the weight's always an issue, but I certainly don't get the "chaos
>>>in inventory" one. Did Crawl go real-time while I wasn't looking?
>>
>>Even in a thinking man's game, what would you rather be thinking about:
>>a blue potion a red potion a pink potion a gluggy blue potion a purple
>>potion a green potion an indigo potion a potion of speed a fizzy black
>>potion a white potion a glowing blue potion a bubbling green potion
>>or
>>a potion of speed?
>
>
> The former. I know the potion of speed's there and I have all the backup
> options to try if I really have no good answer. What's the problem.

Which backup option are you talking about, the blue potion (that's the
potion of paralysis) or the green potion (that one's slowing)? Or maybe
the bubbling green potion... that one's confusion. Of course there's the
white potion (it's berserk rage) and the fizzy black potion (might), and
the green potion (that's heal wounds that you didn't identify due to
your overcaution). Let's go for the the glowing blue potion, hey, it's
cure mutation! Oops, the turn that drinking it cost you has now killed
you... but at least you've died demutated!

INFORMATION. IS. POWER.

Erik

 

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On 29 Jun 2005 23:18:36 -0700, "Mechanoid"
<necromancer_90@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Zap wands at least twice, once at a monster, and once at a wall.

I like to use-test wands on a monster with a (digable) wall behind it;
you're wasting charges use-testing twice.

Also, you don't mention it, but you should test on a weak monster,
like a rat.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com

 

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Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> writes:

>I like Player A's equation better.

OK, I'll be player B anytime

>Note that I'm not a total fanatic
>about the !oCM issue -- if the period without that type being ID'd
>stretches out past DL4 or so, I often start scroll-ID'ing potions...

So in some cases we would play the same way, I see.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

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Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> writes:

>David Damerell wrote:
>> The former. I know the potion of speed's there and I have all the backup
>> options to try if I really have no good answer. What's the problem.

>Which backup option are you talking about the blue potion (that's the
>potion of paralysis) or the green potion (that one's slowing)? Or maybe
>the bubbling green potion... that one's confusion. Of course there's the
>white potion (it's berserk rage) and the fizzy black potion (might), and
>the green potion (that's heal wounds that you didn't identify due to
>your overcaution). Let's go for the the glowing blue potion, hey, it's
>cure mutation! Oops, the turn that drinking it cost you has now killed
>you... but at least you've died demutated!

Well, if the potion of speed doesn't help, David now has some
possibilities, some of which are good, some bad. Whereas you
have nothing. Surely David has a better chance of surviving in
this case.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

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Jukka Kuusisto wrote:
> Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> writes:
>
>
>>There are several. First off, if it's a common or semi-common type, you
>>won't have just one copy forever, so I wouldn't be so worried about the
>>number one.
>
>
> So quaff one of them when you have two of them.

Well, just to show how Crawl's out-of-depth item creation might work, I
just now have a minotaur fighter who found two potions of the same kind
on D:1. Oh, and two other potions. Now I have ID'd potions of heal
wounds, and slowing... and I have one ID-ed potion of cure mutation in
my inventory. Yeah, there were two !oCM on D:1.

 

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Quoting Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz>:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>The former. I know the potion of speed's there and I have all the backup
>>options to try if I really have no good answer. What's the problem.
>Which backup option are you talking about, the blue potion (that's the
>potion of paralysis) or the green potion (that one's slowing)?

Having these hasn't made it any worse when I'm in the situation where I
think "I am going to die otherwise, might as well try a potion", assuming
my assessment of the situation is correct.

>the green potion (that's heal wounds that you didn't identify due to
>your overcaution).

Eh? Your strategy would have burned it already. I have a chance of getting
it with my random selection; you have no chance because you already drank
it. Why am I worse off?

>INFORMATION. IS. POWER.

Information about potions you don't currently have any of is, at that
moment, useless.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Saturday, Presuary - a weekend.

 

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David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz>:
>
>>David Damerell wrote:
>>
>>>The former. I know the potion of speed's there and I have all the backup
>>>options to try if I really have no good answer. What's the problem.
>>
>>Which backup option are you talking about, the blue potion (that's the
>>potion of paralysis) or the green potion (that one's slowing)?
>
> Having these hasn't made it any worse when I'm in the situation where I
> think "I am going to die otherwise, might as well try a potion", assuming
> my assessment of the situation is correct.



>>the green potion (that's heal wounds that you didn't identify due to
>>your overcaution).
>
>
> Eh? Your strategy would have burned it already. I have a chance of getting
> it with my random selection; you have no chance because you already drank
> it. Why am I worse off?

Because (and this is something I admittedly didn't state so explicitly
before) you're burning your mental energy on a small percentage chance
of lucking out rather than spending it on finding options that don't
involve a gamble. That's what I mean by "signal to noise." You're also
in the time previous to the crisis imagined here constantly watching to
see if you have two potions, I'm ID'ing immediately and being able to
focus my attention more on more important things than creating a grab
bag full of lollipops and snakes. You speak as if mental energy is
infinite because it's a turn based game. I'm saying that even in a turn
based game, that isn't so.

>>INFORMATION. IS. POWER.

Ehmmm... I kind of went over the top here, sorry ;-)

>
> Information about potions you don't currently have any of is, at that
> moment, useless.

Potions about which you currently have no information create nothing
more than a dangerous illusion of usefulness.

Erik