Tungsten C digitizer issue

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

My Tungsten C has a serious digitizer issue: the lower left part of display
touch screen is "shifted" vertically so that i need to tap many pixel lower
than the required position for an action.
It has Upgrade ROM 3.0 installed and is out of warranty. ReDigi and similar
are useless for this issue...
Some months ago, i remember of a third-part software for Palm OS that gives
the possibility of align different parts of the screen (not only the three
default alignment cross, but many other alignment reference point of the
screen) but i cannot retrieve it: any suggestions?

Gianvincenzo

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I have exactly the same problem with my Tungsten C with the lower left
part of the screen shifting. The various digitzer utilities don't help.
The problem has got bad enough that I can't calibrate the screen with
the calibrator in preferences. (I click on each of the three "X"s and
it simply asks me to do it again. Round and around...) Soft resets and
hard resets don't help. I'm not using fonts4OS5. It is now frustrating
to operate as it is difficult to operate on-screen buttons and pop-up
menus, so any suggestions would be very welcome.

Phil

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

planetnull@hotmail.com aszonygya:
:I have exactly the same problem with my Tungsten C with the lower left
art of the screen shifting. The various digitzer utilities don't help.
:The problem has got bad enough that I can't calibrate the screen with
:the calibrator in preferences. (I click on each of the three "X"s and
:it simply asks me to do it again. Round and around...) Soft resets and
:hard resets don't help. I'm not using fonts4OS5. It is now frustrating
:to operate as it is difficult to operate on-screen buttons and pop-up
:menus, so any suggestions would be very welcome.

This is not a Tungsten C specific issue. The same, if not worse, happens on
the TT3 and TT5. Install pInfoTool of pToolSet and use the coordinator menu
command to find out what your screen does.

Note, that pInfoTool is a free component of pToolSet [or pToolSetDemo]. You
don't need to install other components of pToolSet to use pInfoTool. Just
click on pInfoTool.

Disclaimer. This suggestion is not meant as promotion of pToolSet [I wrote
it].

/PaulN

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Phil Null" <planetnull@hotmail.com> aszonygya:
:
:"Paul Nevai" <nevai@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
d04r4e$p5j$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
:> planetnull@hotmail.com aszonygya:
:> :I have exactly the same problem with my Tungsten C with the lower left
:> art of the screen shifting. The various digitzer utilities don't help.
:> :The problem has got bad enough that I can't calibrate the screen with
:> :the calibrator in preferences. (I click on each of the three "X"s and
:> :it simply asks me to do it again. Round and around...) Soft resets and
:> :hard resets don't help. I'm not using fonts4OS5. It is now frustrating
:> :to operate as it is difficult to operate on-screen buttons and pop-up
:> :menus, so any suggestions would be very welcome.
:>
:> This is not a Tungsten C specific issue. The same, if not worse, happens
:> on
:> the TT3 and TT5. Install pInfoTool of pToolSet and use the coordinator
:> menu
:> command to find out what your screen does.
:>
:> Note, that pInfoTool is a free component of pToolSet [or pToolSetDemo].
:> You
:> don't need to install other components of pToolSet to use pInfoTool. Just
:> click on pInfoTool.
:>
:> Disclaimer. This suggestion is not meant as promotion of pToolSet [I wrote
:> it].
:>
:> /PaulN
:
:Thanks for the clever util pInfoTool , Paul.
:
:I'm getting (0,0) at the top left of the screen, (0,159) at bottom left,
159,0) at top right and (159,159) at the bottom right. Does that sound
:about right? Sounds about right to me.
:
:If that's the case, I'm not sure where to go from here...

Perfect! As long as those coordinates are kept, you must not have any issues.
The moment you see a problem, check the coordinates again. It might be a
problem of another type such as a hardware problem with the digitizer. I had
a problem like that but it was fixed after Palm replaced my TC. Well, it took
4 exchanges but it worked in the end and it still works.

All=my=best, Paul

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Phil Null" <planetnull@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:RhzVd.27387$8B3.7877@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

>
> "Paul Nevai" <nevai@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
> news05gfp$qst$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
>> "Phil Null" <planetnull@hotmail.com> aszonygya:
>> :
>> :"Paul Nevai" <nevai@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
>> d04r4e$p5j$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
>> :> planetnull@hotmail.com aszonygya:
>> :> :I have exactly the same problem with my Tungsten C with the lower
>> :> :left part of the screen shifting. The various digitzer utilities
>> :> on't
> help.
>> :> :The problem has got bad enough that I can't calibrate the screen
>> :> :with the calibrator in preferences. (I click on each of the three
>> :> :"X"s and it simply asks me to do it again. Round and around...)
>> :> :Soft resets and hard resets don't help. I'm not using fonts4OS5.
>> :> :It is now frustrating to operate as it is difficult to operate
>> :> n-screen buttons and pop-up menus, so any suggestions would be
>> :> :very welcome.
>> :>
>> :> This is not a Tungsten C specific issue. The same, if not worse,
> happens
>> :> on
>> :> the TT3 and TT5. Install pInfoTool of pToolSet and use the
>> :> coordinator menu
>> :> command to find out what your screen does.
>> :>
>> :> Note, that pInfoTool is a free component of pToolSet [or
>> :> pToolSetDemo]. You
>> :> don't need to install other components of pToolSet to use
>> :> pInfoTool.
> Just
>> :> click on pInfoTool.
>> :>
>> :> Disclaimer. This suggestion is not meant as promotion of pToolSet
>> :> [I
> wrote
>> :> it].
>> :>
>> :> /PaulN
>> :
>> :Thanks for the clever util pInfoTool , Paul.
>> :
>> :I'm getting (0,0) at the top left of the screen, (0,159) at bottom
>> :left, (159,0) at top right and (159,159) at the bottom right. Does
>> :that sound about right? Sounds about right to me.
>> :
>> :If that's the case, I'm not sure where to go from here...
>>
>> Perfect! As long as those coordinates are kept, you must not have any
> issues.
>> The moment you see a problem, check the coordinates again. It might
>> be a problem of another type such as a hardware problem with the
>> digitizer. I
> had
>> a problem like that but it was fixed after Palm replaced my TC. Well,
>> it
> took
>> 4 exchanges but it worked in the end and it still works.
>>
>> All=my=best, Paul
>
> I've re-confirmed that the coordinates are correct but I still cannot
> calibrate the screen with the digitizer utility in preferences. Apart
> from a soft reset, the only way out of the digitizer is to tap above
> and below the "X"s, which obviously is not correct. Clicking in the
> correct place means it just keeps going round and round. Maybe the
> digitizer app is screwed in some way.
>
> Phil
>
>
>

In Note Pad, draw some horizontal lines. You will see that the line
sometimes draws above, sometimes below the stylus. That is why the
digitizer app fails: it expects the digitizer to respond in a more or
less linear way. I have the same problem. My guess is it's hardware.

Rene

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Paul Nevai" <nevai@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
news084kk$3rh$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> Rene <alsome@hotmail.not.com> aszonygya:
> :In Note Pad, draw some horizontal lines. You will see that the line
> :sometimes draws above, sometimes below the stylus. That is why the
> igitizer app fails: it expects the digitizer to respond in a more or
> :less linear way. I have the same problem. My guess is it's hardware.
>
> I agree. Sounds like a hardware problem to me too [but I am not qualified
to
> judge]. Call PalmOne 1-408-878-9000. Complain.
>
>
http://www.business.com/directory/ [...] s/palmone/
>
> Good luck, Paul
>

Thanks for your help, I will investigate further.

Phil

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Phil Null" <planetnull@hotmail.com> aszonygya:
:If it's a hardware problem, wouldn't the coordinates readout from
InfoTool be incorrect? Or am I misunderstanding how it works?

Good point but I was thinking of a calibration hardware issue: certain spots
on the screen don't respond properly. So the corners may be fine but other
spots may be dead.

Keep in mind that my knowledge of the hardware issues is zero at best.
pInfoTool uses the coordinates given by eventP->screen[XY]. /PaulN

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Rene wrote:
> I don't think it's really a matter of some points being dead, it's more
> that they return wrong position info. The digitizer app asks you to tap
> three points: upper left, lower right and dead centre. The first should
> be about 0,0; let's say the lower right is at 320,320 (I forget what the
> actual values were). Then the center should be close to 160,160. But your
> digitizer returns let's say 158,150. Horizontally that's close enough,
> but vertically it is too far off. So the digitizer app decides the stupid
> user completely missed the x and sets off for another try. Which is also
> of course doomed from the start. Drawing those lines in Note Pad shows me
> clearly that the y-error is different at the top of the screen than at
> the bottom, and in some areas also different at the left, right edge or
> the centre. I've already removed my screen protector, cleaned out around
> the edges of the screen, dis- and reassembled the case, without any
> change. It could be a problem with the connector from the digitizer, or
> the digitizer itself.

I had a similar problem on my Palm Professional (yes, a very old device).

I took it apart and reseated the connectors several times and never was
able to improve the problem until I cleaned the digitizer connector
contacts with a contact cleaner that removes oxidation (CAIG DeoxIT D5
is what I used). After I did that, there was a dramatic difference,
and digitizer performance went from unusable to quite good.

I'm no hardware guy, but I understand that the way these digitizer
screens work is that there is a piece of something conductive in there
that touches against another layer, and the position at which they
touch determines the length of the conductive stuff that the current
must travel through. Then, based on the conductor being a certain
fixed number of ohms per meter, the digitizer can infer the position
based on the resistance, probably using a linear formula. The point
is, if I'm understanding it right, significant oxidation on the
connector is going to throw off the resistance and thus the digitizer.

- Logan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Paul Nevai" <nevai@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
news0ceju$fs3$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> Rene <alsome@hotmail.not.com> aszonygya:
> :I don't think it's really a matter of some points being dead, it's more
>
> I did have three TRGPros with dead points. I still have one of them. The
> others went back to fHandEra. /PaulN

There doesn't seem to be any dead spots. Using Notepad, if a horizontal line
is drawn at the top of the screen, all is OK. However, if a horizontal line
is drawn at the bottom of the screen, there seems to be a vertical
displacement as you draw towards the right-hand side of the screen. This
would suggest some kind of non-linearity. The line starts level with the
stylus and ends 4-5 mm below the stylus. So when trying to calibrate with
the Digitzer app, you have to tap the upper-left X in the correct place,
but tap 4-5 mm above the lower right X. Then tap about 2-3 mm above the
centre X. This doesn't solve the problem, it just gets you out of the
Digitzer app. Strange thing is that the pInfoTool correctly identifies the
coordinates for the corners of the screen.

While fiddling with this, the Wi-Fi on it seems to have died.

I just gets worse...

Phil

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

nevai@math.ohio-state.edu (Paul Nevai) wrote in
news0h92s$dl7$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu:

>
> Phil:
>
> See
>
> http://www.palmone.com/us/support/ [...] nc_update_
> 30notes.html
>
> where your problem is documented. However, think hard before you use
> the TC update. I know users, including some well-known Palm
> developers, whose TC was ruined by the update [WiFi issues]. Talk to
> Norbert whose e-mail I can't give you but who you can reach via the
> Forum. He had the same digitizer problem as you.
>
> Forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peditors
> peditors@yahoogroups.com (peditors Mailing List)
>
> Good luck, Paul [I am a TC guy despite the problems]
>

Thanks for the hint, but I DID install update_3 a few days after it came
out. I gave it a lot of thought because update_2 had been a royal pain
you know where. When I finally did the upgrade, I ended up manually
restoring all databases because one of them caused a memory manager error
on restore. I managed to scrape together all applications and apps but it
took me some hours. Yes, I started the update when it was almost time to
hit the sack. Yes, the next day I was a zombie. No, it didn't fix the
digitizer issue. The behaviour as I see it and as it is described in the
post just makes me believe more and more firmly it's a real hardware
issue. Maybe I will have a go at the connectors if I feel brave enough
one of these days. It's a very likely source for the problem.

Rene