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-Crawl- Yet Another Newbie Post

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Anonymous
August 5, 2005 6:32:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Hi everyone! I'm newbie in crawl, and I want to ask some
questions/share some experience. Feel free to answer on any line that
caughts your interest.

I'm not a powerful roguelike player - I've managed to win ADOM and
played Rogue DOS version, but could not get used to Angband or Nethack.
I liked Crawl, thought. It's a perfect game.

I don't like pure fighters (at all, may play one only if he tends to be
very strange fighter), so I'm trying playing few fighter-mages and
mages characters.

At first I tried to play Hill Orc Stalker, but some playing and spoiler
reading found that he's tough, but bad in all Stalker's areas - short
blades, stabbing, stealth, magic. So, my favourite character for now is
Mermaid Stalker.

He is good on stealth, stabbing, short swords, poison magic. He's fair
on spellcasting and throwing darts, and only area he really leaking at
is Conjurations.

But he's very universal and tough nontheless. As people said here, best
death knoght is necromancer and best reaver is conjurer, but I don't
think it's the case. He is good on first 5 levels due to Sting, that
can easily slay an ogre due to poisoning, and descent melee attack, and
letar on he can choose between wearing heavy armour, using some halberd
or glaivie (or that dreaded scythe of speed), or, if he gets one or two
Enchantments and Ice books, he can become able fighter-mage with cruel
Sting. What do you think of that combo?

Another characters I'm considering are kenku conjurers, ogre mage
enchanters, centauri hunters, maybe a spriggin warper. How about them?

And now, some questions:
1) Manual says Enchanter gets Confusing Touch, but he gets Corona
instead. That Corona is not sufficent to keep him alive, to be honest.
Why did he was given Corona instead of Touch? I beleive Touch is much
safer...
2) As far as I understand, Warpers are truely underrated for now?
Translocations have one damaging spell, at level one, and it is NOT
given to a character at startup. He WILL die, if he will not find a
book of real spells as early as possible, since mage is no fighter.
With the exceptions of, maybe, spriggan. Or the best Warper is, eh,
Conjurer, for now?
Why is not he given that offensive spell at start? It will make himself
worthing.
3) Are missiles and Hunters underrated, for now?
4) What does Portal spell do (could not get it even from spoilers)?
5) What does Noise spell do, i.e. how to make it do something good for
me?
6) What else tricky, but interesting class/race combinations should I
try?

Still, after ADOM, monsters are very tough (in ADOM most of them was
walking experience points), and I lack cowardness badly - I boldly
fight until I have 5 hps left behind some centaur. Too bad, still only
can do only first 8 levels of Dungeon.

P.S. Thanx developers for making such a great game!

More about : crawl newbie post

Anonymous
August 5, 2005 8:04:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Ilyak wrote:
> Hi everyone! I'm newbie in crawl, and I want to ask some
> questions/share some experience. Feel free to answer on any line that
> caughts your interest.
>
> I'm not a powerful roguelike player - I've managed to win ADOM and
> played Rogue DOS version, but could not get used to Angband or Nethack.
> I liked Crawl, thought. It's a perfect game.

I think so too. It cured me of running treadmills; that's enough to
earn a place in my heart forever.

> I don't like pure fighters (at all, may play one only if he tends to be
> very strange fighter), so I'm trying playing few fighter-mages and
> mages characters.

Tastes sometimes evolve. But play what you enjoy.

> At first I tried to play Hill Orc Stalker, but some playing and spoiler
> reading found that he's tough, but bad in all Stalker's areas - short
> blades, stabbing, stealth, magic.

Subpar in magic, not bad. Bad is ogres. :-) They do well in the
armoured-caster path if they make it past their growing pains.

> So, my favourite character for now is Mermaid Stalker.

Merfolk are cool.

> He is good on stealth, stabbing, short swords, poison magic. He's fair
> on spellcasting and throwing darts, and only area he really leaking at
> is Conjurations.

Darts in b26 are a stopgap for the early game. To read a horror story
about an attempt to make them a mainline weapon, look in Google Groups
for a post containing the keywords insanity and darts.

> But he's very universal and tough nontheless. As people said here, best
> death knoght is necromancer and best reaver is conjurer, but I don't
> think it's the case.

Well, the best crusader is a crusader (50/50 magic/fighting), not an
enchanter (70/30 magic/fighting). But generally, you want the most
focused beginning possible. Being able to spit out one not especially
great magic dart before going into combat with lower than usual skills
leaves you not doing very good damage with either of the two methods.
Reavers can win, of course, but it's usually quite a challenge.
Stalkers have it a little easier in that poison magic is extremely
powerful in the very early game, so its having to share the initial
investment with fighting isn't such a problem. But if you try out a
Merfolk venom mage, you'll see that they also cut through the opening
like a knife through butter. As do venom mages in general.

> He is good on first 5 levels due to Sting, that
> can easily slay an ogre due to poisoning, and descent melee attack,

Your melee attack is what you make it.

> later on he can choose between wearing heavy armour, using some halberd
> or glaivie (or that dreaded scythe of speed), or, if he gets one or two
> Enchantments and Ice books, he can become able fighter-mage with cruel
> Sting. What do you think of that combo?

The switch to heavy armour seems questionable -- you lose a lot of the
benefit from the stealth and the dodging you developed before wearing
it, you ramp up your spell failures, and you'll learn Armour skill
quite slowly as a Merperson. Merfolks as stalkers (whether they start
as stalkers or not, by the way), however, sound fine. You get a nice
spell for enhancing short-blade fighting and you'll build up a bit of
short blades skill if you really do run it 50/50... no harm really in
staying with the short blades (except that spears are really cool, and
merfolk with spears all the more so).

With any sort of poison-based character, never forget that poison
resistance starts becoming more and more widespread from the midgame
on. Poison pushes you up, but it will be dead weight by the end of the
game.

> Another characters I'm considering are kenku conjurers, ogre mage
> enchanters, centauri hunters, maybe a spriggin warper. How about them?

Kenku conjurers do all right, I think (I won with one so I'm biased
though). Ogre mages seem to lie under an ancient curse, at least in my
games. Enchanters as such are insanely awful in the beginning as well.
Centaur hunters do all right, although don't expect your bow to really
be your main source of damage throughout the game. Spriggan warpers do
fine with their starting rod until the armours get thick, then they
have to find another source of damage (often going against the grain of
their skill aptitudes) unless or until they move to a bigger rod (which
means finding their first scroll of acquirement, usually sometime in
the Lair).

> And now, some questions:
> 1) Manual says Enchanter gets Confusing Touch, but he gets Corona
> instead. That Corona is not sufficent to keep him alive, to be honest.
> Why did he was given Corona instead of Touch? I beleive Touch is much
> safer...

Not everything in Crawl is updated as well as it should be. :-)

> 2) As far as I understand, Warpers are truely underrated for now?
> Translocations have one damaging spell, at level one, and it is NOT
> given to a character at startup. He WILL die, if he will not find a
> book of real spells as early as possible, since mage is no fighter.

You are as much a fighter as you make yourself. Start fighting, gain
fighting skills, poof you're a fighter (well, a fighter-mage). And
since spellbooks don't really start arriving until level 3 or 4, you
WILL have to fight with a warper. You might try supplementing your
fighting at early on using a missile weapon, though -- shoot shoot
shoot blink shoot shoot shoot blink.

> With the exceptions of, maybe, spriggan. Or the best Warper is, eh,
> Conjurer, for now?

The best warper is a spriggan, or none at all unless you're looking for
a challenge. Nobody here will deny that.

Another answer: the best warper is a hunter who finds a spellbook with
Blink. :-) I like to call them Warchers. Warvers (Warper/reavers) are
fun too. Both really only happen early with some luck, though.

> Why is not he given that offensive spell at start? It will make himself
> worthing.

He used to have one, it was deemed too powerful, he never got a
replacement. But if you can learn to fight, you can survive.

> 3) Are missiles and Hunters underrated, for now?

More or less yes. (And I say this as someone whose last two wins had
the second-ever Bows title and first-ever Crossbows title. :-) ) They
are good as support weapons, though.

> 4) What does Portal spell do (could not get it even from spoilers)?

Takes you from a level in the main dungeon of your choice to another
place in the main dungeon of your choice.

> 5) What does Noise spell do, i.e. how to make it do something good for
> me?

Sometimes it's safer to make them come to you than for you to come to
them. Detect curse can tell you where they are.

Also, noise affects solid rock differently than open space. ;-)

> 6) What else tricky, but interesting class/race combinations should I
> try?

Crusaders. Crusaders are loads of fun, and quite powerful once they're
developed.

For a variation on the poison magic theme of "Easy early, hard
decisions later", you might try an ice elementalist or two.

Transmuters are also very interesting. The best transmuter is a
transmuter, because there's no way to create one without spellbook luck
otherwise. :-)

e.
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 9:12:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> Ilyak wrote:

> > I don't like pure fighters (at all, may play one only if he tends to be
> > very strange fighter), so I'm trying playing few fighter-mages and
> > mages characters.
> Tastes sometimes evolve. But play what you enjoy.
I tried Minotaur Xommite and got that fighters are same in all
roguelikes - they are tough against everything mediocre, but against
hard monsters they suffer, and against out-of-depth monsters they die
or run really fast.

While mages tend to take off hard and, occasionally, out-of-depth
monsters relatively easy, by cost of easier deaths from RNG weirdness
and medium monster crowds.
I prefer latter.

> > So, my favourite character for now is Mermaid Stalker.
> Merfolk are cool.
Hoped they are.

> > He is good on stealth, stabbing, short swords, poison magic. He's fair
> > on spellcasting and throwing darts, and only area he really leaking at
> > is Conjurations.
> Darts in b26 are a stopgap for the early game. To read a horror story
> about an attempt to make them a mainline weapon, look in Google Groups
> for a post containing the keywords insanity and darts.
Been there. What should I do later on (with stalker) - train some other
missile weapon or go for magic+fighting?

> > He is good on first 5 levels due to Sting, that
> > can easily slay an ogre due to poisoning, and descent melee attack,
> Your melee attack is what you make it.
I am able to make it descent when playing merfolk.
And if I find a glavie, I become really cruel really fast :) 

> > later on he can choose between wearing heavy armour, using some halberd
> > or glaivie (or that dreaded scythe of speed), or, if he gets one or two
> > Enchantments and Ice books, he can become able fighter-mage with cruel
> > Sting. What do you think of that combo?
> The switch to heavy armour seems questionable -- you lose a lot of the
> benefit from the stealth and the dodging you developed before wearing
> it, you ramp up your spell failures, and you'll learn Armour skill
> quite slowly as a Merperson.
Of course, if I'm able to find that Oz's Armor spell, lighter armor
will do too.

> Merfolks as stalkers (whether they start
> as stalkers or not, by the way), however, sound fine. You get a nice
> spell for enhancing short-blade fighting and you'll build up a bit of
> short blades skill if you really do run it 50/50... no harm really in
> staying with the short blades (except that spears are really cool, and
> merfolk with spears all the more so).
Just spears, or any polearms? If former, why?

> With any sort of poison-based character, never forget that poison
> resistance starts becoming more and more widespread from the midgame
> on. Poison pushes you up, but it will be dead weight by the end of the
> game.
That will not mean anything when I'm dead, and I'll be very soon,
really.

> > Another characters I'm considering are kenku conjurers, ogre mage
> > enchanters, centauri hunters, maybe a spriggin warper. How about them?
> Kenku conjurers do all right, I think (I won with one so I'm biased
> though).
How hard is their absence of boots/helms? It should cause them to have
smaller AC at the end of game?

> Centaur hunters do all right, although don't expect your bow to really
> be your main source of damage throughout the game.
And what will be? Hand to hand weapon?

> Spriggan warpers do
> fine with their starting rod until the armours get thick, then they
> have to find another source of damage (often going against the grain of
> their skill aptitudes) unless or until they move to a bigger rod (which
> means finding their first scroll of acquirement, usually sometime in
> the Lair).
Oh well, I'm not going to get there in one piece.

> > And now, some questions:
> > 1) Manual says Enchanter gets Confusing Touch, but he gets Corona
> > instead. That Corona is not sufficent to keep him alive, to be honest.
> > Why did he was given Corona instead of Touch? I beleive Touch is much
> > safer...
> Not everything in Crawl is updated as well as it should be. :-)
After some thoughts, Crusaders should be fine with Corona, but
Enchanters should get Touch.

BTW: Deep elves have easier advances on Air magic, that's strange since
they're underground.

BTW2: I've tried Deep Elf Wizard and fell in love with it.
He starts with extremely useful book with blink and Repel Missiles/Oz's
Armour. That is so better than, say, conjurations book... And he will
build up Conjurations really well really soon anyway.

I have that character currently. He cleared out 8 or 9 levels of
Dungeons (almost, on last I met some Unique human and Wisp (yellow y)
and choosen to retreat.

He's on Spellcasting 9, Int 25, Staff of Wizardry, Conjurations 10, Ice
6, Enchantments 5, Translocations - 3 (or should I train it further?) -
with Throw Frost as main offence, Confusion, Repel, Oz's Armour.

His only problem is that he has just 35 hps (that's on level 9!).
Should i volens nolens get some fighting skill to him, or 1-2 in
fighting would not mean anything?

I once reloaded himself from backup. I tried Evoking firstly-found ball
of fixation, became Slow, iguana came and ate me still despite full HP
and AC 10. What was that?
I have another thingy, Box of Beasts, what's that?

I reloaded himself because 1) Not like dying from something I could not
prevent even in theory, 2) This cheating will not matter when he's
permadead, and it will not be long.

He's going into Orkish mines and already met a Troll who made his hps
down to 8. I was able to retreat up by confusing him from wand. Will be
fun tomorrow.

What does Wand of Disintigration do? Or I should just try?

> > 2) As far as I understand, Warpers are truely underrated for now?
> > Translocations have one damaging spell, at level one, and it is NOT
> > given to a character at startup. He WILL die, if he will not find a
> > book of real spells as early as possible, since mage is no fighter.
> You are as much a fighter as you make yourself. Start fighting, gain
> fighting skills, poof you're a fighter (well, a fighter-mage). And
Why not start as fighter in a first place then?

> since spellbooks don't really start arriving until level 3 or 4, you
> WILL have to fight with a warper. You might try supplementing your
> fighting at early on using a missile weapon, though -- shoot shoot
> shoot blink shoot shoot shoot blink.
Yes, I tried this with Wizard. Works lovely. Wizard is soo much better
than conjurer 'cause he gets this spell on D:1. But that's will be
reverse for lesser fey race like Kenku or Merfolk :) 

> > With the exceptions of, maybe, spriggan. Or the best Warper is, eh,
> > Conjurer, for now?
> The best warper is a spriggan, or none at all unless you're looking for
> a challenge. Nobody here will deny that.
> Another answer: the best warper is a hunter who finds a spellbook with
> Blink. :-) I like to call them Warchers. Warvers (Warper/reavers) are
> fun too. Both really only happen early with some luck, though.
I've found a ring of Telepport Control, but it controls Blink really
strange.
It asks me for direction on a cross, I push one corridor's direction
and find myself blinked along other corridor. Without control results
seemed better than with, so I took it out (and put +3 evasion one)

> > 4) What does Portal spell do (could not get it even from spoilers)?
> Takes you from a level in the main dungeon of your choice to another
> place in the main dungeon of your choice.
I.e. I can travel from D:any to D:any?

> > 5) What does Noise spell do, i.e. how to make it do something good for
> > me?
> Sometimes it's safer to make them come to you than for you to come to
> them. Detect curse can tell you where they are.
> Also, noise affects solid rock differently than open space. ;-)
Well, for luring out Centaurs?

Centaurs are real magebane! They tend to kill half of my merfolk, and
killed few wizards even with Repel Missiles on. Sadly you die whatever
you try - teleporting, blinking, running, charging all that leads to
grave.

What are Spiny Frogs? I saw a lot of frightened posts so I want to know
before I face one.
Need to say even simple Frogs are much tougher then they are in other
games :) 

> > 6) What else tricky, but interesting class/race combinations should I
> > try?
> Crusaders. Crusaders are loads of fun, and quite powerful once they're
> developed.
Will try once.

> For a variation on the poison magic theme of "Easy early, hard
> decisions later", you might try an ice elementalist or two.
> Transmuters are also very interesting. The best transmuter is a
> transmuter, because there's no way to create one without spellbook luck
> otherwise. :-)
I seem to have it. I've got Changes book for current Wizard, I've found
2 or 3 books with Selective Amnesia with all chars, and I seem to get a
lot of good books along the way.

BTW: Sif Muna likes when I cast spells while praying, or she does not
care, when?

Thanx for reply!
Related resources
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 10:51:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Ilyak wrote:
> Erik Piper wrote:
> > Ilyak wrote:
>
> > > I don't like pure fighters (at all, may play one only if he tends to be
> > > very strange fighter), so I'm trying playing few fighter-mages and
> > > mages characters.
> > Tastes sometimes evolve. But play what you enjoy.
> I tried Minotaur Xommite and got that fighters are same in all
> roguelikes - they are tough against everything mediocre, but against
> hard monsters they suffer, and against out-of-depth monsters they die
> or run really fast.

First off two fighter tips:

***

The art of running away and coming back later is important in Crawl.

Divine help is a powerful aid to everyone, but especially to a fighter.

***

Both fighters and mages have their strengths. Because there's no real
possibility to stat-scum, fighters stay tougher than mages throughout
the game.

However, "fighter" and "mage" are not just things you begin as; they're
things you make, though your chances of shaping a PC into a fighter,
mage, etc. away from something else depend on your race, your skill as
a player, and the will of the RNG.

[...]

> > > He is good on stealth, stabbing, short swords, poison magic. He's fair
> > > on spellcasting and throwing darts, and only area he really leaking at
> > > is Conjurations.
> > Darts in b26 are a stopgap for the early game. To read a horror story
> > about an attempt to make them a mainline weapon, look in Google Groups
> > for a post containing the keywords insanity and darts.
> Been there. What should I do later on (with stalker) - train some other
> missile weapon or go for magic+fighting?

Missile weapons are underpowered in b26. Merfolk make decent fighters
and decent mages; pick *one* solution to damage-dealing based on what
the RNG delivers you, develop that solution until you feel solid in it,
and then if you desire, develop the other one.

> > > He is good on first 5 levels due to Sting, that
> > > can easily slay an ogre due to poisoning, and descent melee attack,
> > Your melee attack is what you make it.
> I am able to make it descent when playing merfolk.
> And if I find a glavie, I become really cruel really fast :) 

What I meant is that if you fight when you have "available" experience,
you develop fighting, and thus a better melee attack. You were speaking
of stalkers, the "reavers" of poison magic, and what I was saying in
the background is: you can turn a venom mage into an almost-stalker
(minus the book of stalking) by making the right choices. The "almost"
part is not so troublesome for merfolk, as sureblade and the stabbing
enhancer spell are for short blades, and you'll learn well with short
blades, but even better with spears.

However, poison magic is very special -- such a wide transition from
strong to weak. In that sense
a) having weak magic initially is not so great a handicap, because in
the opening, poison lets you do a tremendous lot for very little.
b) having a nice place to start from to develop an alternative to
poison -- concretely here melee -- certainly is nice!

Thus in a way, stalkers make pretty good stalkers. ;-)

> > > later on he can choose between wearing heavy armour, using some halberd
> > > or glaivie (or that dreaded scythe of speed), or, if he gets one or two
> > > Enchantments and Ice books, he can become able fighter-mage with cruel
> > > Sting. What do you think of that combo?
> > The switch to heavy armour seems questionable -- you lose a lot of the
> > benefit from the stealth and the dodging you developed before wearing
> > it, you ramp up your spell failures, and you'll learn Armour skill
> > quite slowly as a Merperson.
> Of course, if I'm able to find that Oz's Armor spell, lighter armor
> will do too.

And if you're not, it will IMO eventually also do too -- the benefit
from getting hit less due to evasion (from Dodging, from fighting in
light armour with available XP) is as good as that from heavy armour
IMO.

Crawl is a skills-based game. Your dodging skill aptitude is much
higher than your armour skill aptitude. If you were playing dwarves,
I'd be advising the opposite despite myself. :-)

Never be dependent on finding a certain book. That's asking for
trouble.

> > Merfolks as stalkers (whether they start
> > as stalkers or not, by the way), however, sound fine. You get a nice
> > spell for enhancing short-blade fighting and you'll build up a bit of
> > short blades skill if you really do run it 50/50... no harm really in
> > staying with the short blades (except that spears are really cool, and
> > merfolk with spears all the more so).
> Just spears, or any polearms? If former, why?

Polearms -- "spears" is easier for me to remember. :-) Although there's
a certain truth to saying spears, because weapons have a "strength to
dex" weighting, and you want things towards the dex end, which spears
are in the world of polearms. However, the effect is not too big.

> > With any sort of poison-based character, never forget that poison
> > resistance starts becoming more and more widespread from the midgame
> > on. Poison pushes you up, but it will be dead weight by the end of the
> > game.
> That will not mean anything when I'm dead,

Looks like you know the most important thing in Crawl already.

> and I'll be very soon really.
>
> > > Another characters I'm considering are kenku conjurers, ogre mage
> > > enchanters, centauri hunters, maybe a spriggin warper. How about them?
> > Kenku conjurers do all right, I think (I won with one so I'm biased
> > though).
> How hard is their absence of boots/helms? It should cause them to have
> smaller AC at the end of game?

Naturally so, but if you go the heavy-armour route with them, then a
difference of 4 AC (1 for a +2 cap/hat instead of a +2 helm, 3 for no
boots) is not really so important. More important is the missed
opportunity for need boot randarts and boots of running. The former are
not too rare by the endgame, but the latter are rare. It's livable.

> > Centaur hunters do all right, although don't expect your bow to really
> > be your main source of damage throughout the game.
> And what will be? Hand to hand weapon?

Most likely yes. Other than the lukewarm skill aptitudes, you're one
tough mofo as a centaur. (It's tough to stay fed in the opening though
-- they have an increased metabolism.)

Despite their even more yaaaaaawn aptitudes for magic, they're neat as
mages or part-mages, because there they can make their ability to open
up range really shine.

> > Spriggan warpers do
> > fine with their starting rod until the armours get thick, then they
> > have to find another source of damage (often going against the grain of
> > their skill aptitudes) unless or until they move to a bigger rod (which
> > means finding their first scroll of acquirement, usually sometime in
> > the Lair).
> Oh well, I'm not going to get there in one piece.

You will one day, don't worry.

> > > And now, some questions:
> > > 1) Manual says Enchanter gets Confusing Touch, but he gets Corona
> > > instead. That Corona is not sufficent to keep him alive, to be honest.
> > > Why did he was given Corona instead of Touch? I beleive Touch is much
> > > safer...
> > Not everything in Crawl is updated as well as it should be. :-)
> After some thoughts, Crusaders should be fine with Corona, but
> Enchanters should get Touch.

It depends on whether or not the point is to make all classes balanced
against each other. From a narrativist standpoint, it's all about
creating believable whatchamacallits, whoo whoo whoo! But I can't say
much about this; I'm a gamist. For me, it's about creating "difficulty
levels" without using difficulty levels; in other words, races and
classes should *not* be balanced, but rather should have a wide range
of difficulty levels, ideally not just overall, but also within the
various main "paths" (fighter, mage, etc.).

> BTW: Deep elves have easier advances on Air magic, that's strange since
> they're underground.

Their blood remembers their heritage. Whoo whoo!

> BTW2: I've tried Deep Elf Wizard and fell in love with it.
> He starts with extremely useful book with blink and Repel Missiles/Oz's
> Armour.

Watch out - there are three randomly selected wizard starting books.

> That is so better than, say, conjurations book...

....and two conjurations books. :-)

> And he will build up Conjurations really well really soon anyway.

They're both good. Not taking random book finds into account, wizards
are easier to get to D:5; conjurers are easier to get to D:10 if you've
gotten D:5. Blink and higher MP will save you better than mephitic
cloud/conjure flame and higher damage, but fire bolt/ice bolt will save
you better than the top spells in the wizard books. All IMO as usual.
:-)

> I have that character currently. He cleared out 8 or 9 levels of
> Dungeons (almost, on last I met some Unique human and Wisp (yellow y)
> and choosen to retreat.

Probably a wise move. Wasps have paralyzing poison. In the worst case,
the first turn standing next to them will be your last turn of action
before dying.

> He's on Spellcasting 9, Int 25, Staff of Wizardry, Conjurations 10, Ice
> 6, Enchantments 5, Translocations - 3 (or should I train it further?) -
> with Throw Frost as main offence, Confusion, Repel, Oz's Armour.

Train translocations enough that the chance of failing to blink is
small enough you can bet your life on Blink.

Forget about offensive enchantments -- resistances are too high.
Defensive ones are nice though (and buffing ones if you fight, but you
probably aren't fighting).

Train another method of damage besides ice. Eventually, ice resistance
will become very common (but much slower than happens with poison).

> His only problem is that he has just 35 hps (that's on level 9!).

Yup.

> Should i volens nolens get some fighting skill to him, or 1-2 in
> fighting would not mean anything?

Lower levels of skills are cheaper than higher ones. So despite your
bad aptitudes, a few levels of Fighting will be more bang for the buck
than many possible investments in spell skills.

> I once reloaded himself from backup. I tried Evoking firstly-found ball
> of fixation, became Slow, iguana came and ate me still despite full HP
> and AC 10. What was that?

That's what crystal balls of fixation do. It's why you only evoke-test
crystal balls in a safe place. :-)

> I have another thingy, Box of Beasts, what's that?

Evoke it to get some animals, mostly friendly. Eventually, it runs out.
Use it to solve crises (in place of e.g. potions) sooner rather than
later; later on those animals will just be a joke.

> I reloaded himself because 1) Not like dying from something I could not
> prevent even in theory, 2) This cheating will not matter when he's
> permadead, and it will not be long.

:-D It's always annoying when Murphy's Law applies and your savescummed
character gets very far ahead and you have the choice between
continuing in bad faith or losing even more progress. After a few times
of that in ADOM, I dropped savescumming for good. I don't like
moralizing on it, though.

[...]
> What does Wand of Disintigration do? Or I should just try?

Resistable. Undodgeable. Does damage roughly on par with flame/frost,
maybe a bit better. Unresistably :-) digs rock walls, one square at a
time.

> > > 2) As far as I understand, Warpers are truely underrated for now?
> > > Translocations have one damaging spell, at level one, and it is NOT
> > > given to a character at startup. He WILL die, if he will not find a
> > > book of real spells as early as possible, since mage is no fighter.
> > You are as much a fighter as you make yourself. Start fighting, gain
> > fighting skills, poof you're a fighter (well, a fighter-mage). And
> Why not start as fighter in a first place then?

Because you're tired of playing fighters?

> > since spellbooks don't really start arriving until level 3 or 4, you
> > WILL have to fight with a warper. You might try supplementing your
> > fighting at early on using a missile weapon, though -- shoot shoot
> > shoot blink shoot shoot shoot blink.
> Yes, I tried this with Wizard. Works lovely. Wizard is soo much better
> than conjurer 'cause he gets this spell on D:1. But that's will be
> reverse for lesser fey race like Kenku or Merfolk :) 

Once you learn the tricks surrounding Mephitic Cloud and Conjure Flame,
they do give *some* competition to Blink from D:2 on. :-)

[...]
> I've found a ring of Telepport Control, but it controls Blink really
> strange.

It's called "Semi-controlled blink". It's a (wise) design decision to
keep blink+ring from being too powerful. You can set *the direction*
(though if I undersand correctly, you'll get a random blink if the
randomly chosen square in that direction would stick you inside a
wall), but you can't set the *landing square*.

> It asks me for direction on a cross, I push one corridor's direction
> and find myself blinked along other corridor.

Yup, that fits my understanding -- the percentage of wall squares in
either direction along the corridor is high, so the chance of a fully
random blink is high.

> Without control results seemed better than with,

RNG noise.

> so I took it out (and put +3 evasion one)

Put it back in and learn to use it wisely. But be careful; even
semi-random blink creates Magic Contamination. Too much contamination
and not enough time to let it cool down = one very funny-looking (and
handicapped) elf. Rising contamination creates a percentage chance per
turn of a mutation, usually a bad one.

> > > 4) What does Portal spell do (could not get it even from spoilers)?
> > Takes you from a level in the main dungeon of your choice to another
> > place in the main dungeon of your choice.
> I.e. I can travel from D:any to D:any?

Right.

> > > 5) What does Noise spell do, i.e. how to make it do something good for
> > > me?
> > Sometimes it's safer to make them come to you than for you to come to
> > them. Detect curse can tell you where they are.
> > Also, noise affects solid rock differently than open space. ;-)
> Well, for luring out Centaurs?

That's a good example -- you're a fighter-mage with no ranged options
but you have Detect Curse and Projected Noise, you see a centaur in a
big open area (since otherwise you could safely lure him to melee range
without Projected Noise), you set up a corner for ducking, you lure him
out.

> Centaurs are real magebane! They tend to kill half of my merfolk, and
> killed few wizards even with Repel Missiles on. Sadly you die whatever
> you try - teleporting, blinking, running, charging all that leads to
> grave.

Even for (early) mages, centaurs are a little safer when they're
clubbing you with their bow than when they're firing it.

More generally -- be creative and evil (I'll leave the details to you).
They deserve it.

> What are Spiny Frogs? I saw a lot of frightened posts so I want to know
> before I face one.

Faster than the player, hard-hitting, good evasion, poisoners. Like all
animals, they can be put on the run with enough damage, which makes
them much simple to finish off.

[...]
> > Transmuters are also very interesting. The best transmuter is a
> > transmuter, because there's no way to create one without spellbook luck
> > otherwise. :-)
> I seem to have it. I've got Changes book for current Wizard, I've found
> 2 or 3 books with Selective Amnesia with all chars, and I seem to get a
> lot of good books along the way.

That's great! Bad luck days will come too, though.

> BTW: Sif Muna likes when I cast spells while praying, or she does not
> care, when?

Only that you cast spells, period. Praying is only important for
getting books IIRC.

> Thanx for reply!

You're welcome!

e.

e.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:47:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
>
> Ilyak wrote:
>> Erik Piper wrote:
>> > Ilyak wrote:
>>
>> > > I don't like pure fighters (at all, may play one only if he tends
>> > > to be very strange fighter), so I'm trying playing few
>> > > fighter-mages and mages characters.
>> > Tastes sometimes evolve. But play what you enjoy.

I had a strong preference for spellcasters from other roguelikes when I
started to play Crawl, but meanwhile I've learned fighters in Crawl are
anything else than boring! Though I still have a hard time with hybrid
chars.

>> I tried Minotaur Xommite and got that fighters are same in all
>> roguelikes - they are tough against everything mediocre, but against
>> hard monsters they suffer, and against out-of-depth monsters they die
>> or run really fast.
>
> First off two fighter tips:
>
> ***
>
> The art of running away and coming back later is important in Crawl.

More or less that's true for all roguelikes. The meaning behind this is
somewhat different in Crawl, though. First off, "later" *means* later
(and not just taking the next stairs, recover your hitpoints and then
come back). Also keep in mind that one level deeper doesn't mean
monsters are necessarily tougher there. And that's one of the survival
keys: Whenever you reach a level with something you can't deal right
now, DIVE! The main point is not just food you won't find enough on the
upper, already cleared levels. The point is, whatever you miss to deal
with that 'something', you hardly will find it on the empty levels
above. Often it's just that new wand, potion or scroll you'll find one
or two levels below which makes the decicive difference. Then come back
and take your revenge.

On the other hand, never go downstairs to an unexplored level when in a
desperate situation (eg poisoned or low on HP), unless there's really no
other option anymore. Therefore it's good advice (*cough* that's what I
do at least, but I'm no reference) to dip your toe into any downstairs
you come by when still in a good shape. This way you gain knowledge
about the 'quiet spots' of the new level and first overview on how and
where this level is dangerous (large open area, huge gang close to the
stairs, all that stuff).

That's just a rule of thumb (a basic idea, not meant to be followed
strictly) for the main dungeon, the side branches are another story
(therefore watch out for Erik talking about the 'Midgame Pendulum')...

Btw, snipping away all precious advice from Erik doesn't mean it's not
worth to read. Quite the opposite! Though I'm no expert but also no noob
anymore, I still enjoy everytime Erik is opening his trickbox. :-)

Rubinstein
--
in dubio pro pecuniam et contra populum
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 1:37:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 9 Aug 2005 06:51:38 -0700, "Erik Piper" <erik@sky.cz> wrote:

>Ilyak wrote:

>> I tried Minotaur Xommite and got that fighters are same in all
>> roguelikes - they are tough against everything mediocre, but against
>> hard monsters they suffer, and against out-of-depth monsters they die
>> or run really fast.
>
>First off two fighter tips:
>
>***
>
>The art of running away and coming back later is important in Crawl.
>
>Divine help is a powerful aid to everyone, but especially to a fighter.

And Xom isn't exactly "help".

>> BTW: Deep elves have easier advances on Air magic, that's strange since
>> they're underground.
>
>Their blood remembers their heritage. Whoo whoo!

It's also as bad as Air gets for Elves.

And there *is* air underground, for anyone to be able to live there.

>Probably a wise move. Wasps have paralyzing poison. In the worst case,
>the first turn standing next to them will be your last turn of action
>before dying.

Bees are deadly. Wasps are mega-deadly. Insect repellent would be nice.

>> Why not start as fighter in a first place then?
>
>Because you're tired of playing fighters?

Because you're playing a random character? (Try it. It's no crazier than
worshiping Xom.)

>> so I took it out (and put +3 evasion one)
>
>Put it back in and learn to use it wisely.

I thought you were just praising the value of Evasion?

>But be careful; even
>semi-random blink creates Magic Contamination.

Reason enough to skip it for now -- I don't think anyone in "beginner"
stages needs the extra mental burden of worrying about magic
contamination when he doesn't have to.

>That's a good example -- you're a fighter-mage with no ranged options
>but you have Detect Curse

You mean Detect Creatures, I think.

>and Projected Noise, you see a centaur in a
>big open area (since otherwise you could safely lure him to melee range
>without Projected Noise), you set up a corner for ducking, you lure him
>out.

>> Centaurs are real magebane! They tend to kill half of my merfolk, and
>> killed few wizards even with Repel Missiles on. Sadly you die whatever
>> you try - teleporting, blinking, running, charging all that leads to
>> grave.
>
>Even for (early) mages, centaurs are a little safer when they're
>clubbing you with their bow than when they're firing it.

Centaurs *are* dangerous, especially if you meet them in the open, but
they aren't the worst thing around. And in melee they're more survivable
than many early creatures. Mephitic Cloud is an excellent method for
dealing with Centaurs. A confused centaur doesn't make much of a
marksman.

>> BTW: Sif Muna likes when I cast spells while praying, or she does not
>> care, when?
>
>Only that you cast spells, period. Praying is only important for
>getting books IIRC.

Sif Muna is wise, so she [1] always knows when you cast spells. She
isn't one of those stupid gods who don't notice what you do unless you
pull on their sleeves.

[1] Technically, the gods of Crawl are, like the player, of
indeterminate gender. However, I prefer to think of Sif Muna as female,
a goddess of magic ala Isis or Hecate. Your tastes may differ.

I also think Trog is male and hates magicians because Sif Muna spurned
his crude advances.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 1:37:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:47:55 +0200, Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de>
wrote:

>On the other hand, never go downstairs to an unexplored level when in a
>desperate situation (eg poisoned or low on HP), unless there's really no
>other option anymore. Therefore it's good advice (*cough* that's what I
>do at least, but I'm no reference) to dip your toe into any downstairs
>you come by when still in a good shape. This way you gain knowledge
>about the 'quiet spots' of the new level and first overview on how and
>where this level is dangerous (large open area, huge gang close to the
>stairs, all that stuff).

I used to be a "check the stairs right away" guy, but have switched to
"go down when I need to, no sooner" because I figure the fewer stairs I
take blind, the fewer times I'll hit that "huge gang close to the
stairs". Of course, if you can remember which stair you already tried,
you can try one to make sure it is "safe", then go back and explore and
take that same stairs down when you're ready to advance.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 3:01:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:

> My imagination goes the same route, but thinking a little further I
> guess it's just following the old cliche:
> Male => powerful, aggressive
> Female => contemplative, passive
>
> Rubinstein
> --
> in dubio pro pecuniam et contra populum

Females contemplative and passive? Apparently you haven't been around a
woman when their monthly friend visits. :D 

Seriously speaking, I saw Sif Muna as a woman too. A few of my winners
who worshipped Sif Mina swore that they heard random curses, crying,
and screaming in their subconscious, presumably from Sif Muna, and
these cries were only heard on the 15th of the month. Coincidence?
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 10:58:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry wrote:
>
> [1] Technically, the gods of Crawl are, like the player, of
> indeterminate gender. However, I prefer to think of Sif Muna as female,
> a goddess of magic ala Isis or Hecate. Your tastes may differ.
>
> I also think Trog is male and hates magicians because Sif Muna spurned
> his crude advances.

My imagination goes the same route, but thinking a little further I
guess it's just following the old cliche:
Male => powerful, aggressive
Female => contemplative, passive

Rubinstein
--
in dubio pro pecuniam et contra populum
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 1:35:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:
> bencillan@yahoo.com wrote:

> > Seriously speaking, I saw Sif Muna as a woman too. A few of my winners
> > who worshipped Sif Mina swore that they heard random curses, crying,
> > and screaming in their subconscious, presumably from Sif Muna, and
> > these cries were only heard on the 15th of the month. Coincidence?
>
> Can't confirm this (I played a lot of Sif Munians). But as for the 15th
> I strongly doubt this: sounds too much like a nethackism, quite atypical
> for Crawl. ;-)
>
> Rubinstein
> --
> in dubio pro pecuniam et contra populum

Sorry, my post was mostly cynical ranting, purely (presumable) humor.
:)  I was paying homage to nature's way of giving women a special
"power" every month or so. *wink* *nudge*

But otherwise, I do agree with your assessment of Sif Mina, especially
considering that the description is very serene and calm, and I can't
really see a guy fitting that description, unless it is a 60's protest
rally veteran emerging from cryohibernation.

I also picture Sif Muna (for some odd reason) as a Hindu goddess, with
many arms and the common Hindu goddess vestments (pardon my overarching
cultural ignorance). My mind seems to have set this in stone as the
standard for Sif Muna. Then again, I see Trog as a large Troll with a
large club, covered in the blood of a cow. Perhaps this has to do with
the fact that my Trogites can comfortably assume that same appearance.

Well, thus is the crux of roguelikes, allowing the imagination to
decipher the visuals behind the little ASCII symbols.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 2:23:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bencillan@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Rubinstein wrote:
>
>> My imagination goes the same route, but thinking a little further I
>> guess it's just following the old cliche:
>> Male => powerful, aggressive
>> Female => contemplative, passive
>>
>> Rubinstein
>> --
>> in dubio pro pecuniam et contra populum
>
> Females contemplative and passive? Apparently you haven't been around
> a woman when their monthly friend visits. :D 

I was more thinking of a common cliche, my own experiences are
different, anyway (compared to my women I guess it's me who is the
passive and contemplative). Though I have to admit that at first I
thought all gods in Crawl would be male (another common cliche), but
then I saw Tina Hall calling Sif Muna 'her' and for some reason I
suddenly thought that must be right.

> Seriously speaking, I saw Sif Muna as a woman too. A few of my winners
> who worshipped Sif Mina swore that they heard random curses, crying,
> and screaming in their subconscious, presumably from Sif Muna, and
> these cries were only heard on the 15th of the month. Coincidence?

Can't confirm this (I played a lot of Sif Munians). But as for the 15th
I strongly doubt this: sounds too much like a nethackism, quite atypical
for Crawl. ;-)

Rubinstein
--
in dubio pro pecuniam et contra populum
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 7:23:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 10 Aug 2005 04:39:15 -0700, "Ilyak" <ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Btw-2, Merfolk Stalker ghost vs Merfolk Stalker is an ask-for-beating.
>You can't easily harm him, and he can easily poison you to death. Try
>to run.

Ice Elementalists also make a series where the the ghosts have a
distinct advantage.

Consider it Crawl's way of reminding you that a little variety is the
spice of life and run through a few big buff guys who can clear out the
spell-flinging ghosts and leave relatively easy melee-based ghosts.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 7:23:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On 10 Aug 2005 10:07:07 -0700, bencillan@yahoo.com wrote:

>One day, I will escape with a caster that has all of his spells at the
>Perfect level.

Just have a Sif Munite winner and forget any non-Perfect spells before
escaping. Easy. Well, easy as getting the Sif Munite winner in the first
place.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 8:10:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry wrote:
> On 10 Aug 2005 10:07:07 -0700, bencillan@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >One day, I will escape with a caster that has all of his spells at the
> >Perfect level.
>
> Just have a Sif Munite winner and forget any non-Perfect spells before
> escaping. Easy. Well, easy as getting the Sif Munite winner in the first
> place.
>
> --
> R. Dan Henry
> danhenry@inreach.com

Silly boy! That's not the point! :) 
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 11:32:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bencillan@yahoo.com wrote:
>I also picture Sif Muna (for some odd reason) as a Hindu goddess, with
>many arms and the common Hindu goddess vestments (pardon my overarching
>cultural ignorance). My mind seems to have set this in stone as the
>standard for Sif Muna. Then again, I see Trog as a large Troll with a
>large club, covered in the blood of a cow. Perhaps this has to do with
>the fact that my Trogites can comfortably assume that same appearance.

Trog... Yeah, I think the troll thing sounds about right.

Vehumet... Vehumet, I think, looks very civilised, lean-faced and
austerely dressed, but his eyes blaze with the fierce joy of destruction.

Makhleb has an enormous flaming sword and big chunky armour, and wears
a skull-faced helmet.

Okawaru... I think it's the character of the name, but I always
visualise him as looking like an archetypical samurai.

Sif Muna... Ageless woman in blue robes, with night-black hair, eyes like
oceans and an air about her suggesting that she really does know all things.

The Shining One... A knight in dazzlingly polished armour, who shines
with a light too bright for mortal eyes to look upon unguarded.

Elyvilon... Male. Wears a toga of unbleached linen.

Zin... I have no idea what Zin looks like.

Nemelex Xobeh... looks utterly unremarkable. You have absolutely no idea
how he managed to roll five dice and have them come up showing five sevens.
In fact, when you picked up the dice and looked at them, you couldn't
even see the sevens any more.

Xom... Xom has no form comprehensible to mortals. To look upon the true
substance of Xom would shatter the mind of even the most level-headed
of persons; only those already incurably insane can look upon Xom's
glorious form and not be reduced to a drooling vegetable.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
illusion/kinetics controlling is love
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 10:56:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Erik Piper" <erik@sky.cz> writes:

>Fungi and plants work as punching dummies until you reach Fighting 1 or
>2, I forget which.

It's still 2. Here's a mnemonic I just thought up for you: "Find some
plants and you'll learn some fighting skills _too_." Is that stupid
enough? :) 

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 11:00:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

>The Shining One... A knight in dazzlingly polished armour, who shines
>with a light too bright for mortal eyes to look upon unguarded.

In my mind the shine is golden, but that's probably because the name
reminds me of the hero 'the Golden One' of Master of Magic...

>Zin... I have no idea what Zin looks like.

Surely he wears clean white robes.

What about:

Kikubaaqudgha... A dark demon, in my mind quite humanoid in shape, resembling
a lich.

Yredelemnul... A skeletal knight wearing black armor and wielding
a black sword.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 9:03:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Ilyak" <ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com> writes:

>Btw: My dead wizard had a scroll of acquirement, my merfolk saw one in
>shop. So please can you read a lecture about "Ten fun things you can
>make with ?oA"?

Just one fun thing: read it and select what type of item
you want. Unlike wishing in most roguelikes, you can't
select exactly what you want, just the item category.
I most often go for jewellery. Let's see the options:

Weapons: By the time I find my first ?oAcquirement, I
usually have one weapon skill well developed. The chances
are too high that the weapon I get will not match my
skills.

Armour: If I already have good jewellery and for some
reason not very good armour, I might go for this. But
only with fighter types and races that can wear the
regular armours. Before selecting armour, ask yourself
"Would I be happy with a +2 ring mail of cold resistance?"

Jewellery: There are many pieces of jewellery you just
want to have in any game and this is a good chance to get
one of them. Most often I hope I get a ring of teleport
control.

Books: A good option, if you're a spellcaster who is not
worshipping Sif Muna or Vehumet and need a book that
matches you're highest magic skill.

Staves: A good option, if you're a spellcaster and need
a staff to boost you're casting or if you're an evoker.
Most often I already have the staff I need.

Other options (food, gold, miscellaneous) don't ever
seem relevant to me.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 2:14:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bencillan@yahoo.com wrote:
> Erik Piper wrote:
> > Ilyak wrote:
> > > Erik Piper wrote:
> > > > Ilyak wrote:
> > > > > Erik Piper wrote:
> > > > > > Ilyak wrote:
> > > > > > [No fighters!]

> > Xom is fun, but not too practical. :-) Perhaps the ultimate fighter is
> > a berserker. Minotaur berserkers are tough as nails but have to worry
> > about food, troll berserkers have various minor problems but have
> > "eaten an Amulet of the Gourmand before the start of the game", kobold
> > berserkers don't exist de iure but they do de facto and they're tons of
> > fun -- like tiny little trolls. Look up "Bevoker" in GG for an example.
> > Also interesting would be deep elf de facto berserkers, but I dont'
> > think anybody's ever done anything that crazy.
>
> A few months back, I escaped with my Deep Elf Fighter turned berserker
> by worshipping Trog. It was a super-challenge, but I pulled through.
> [1] [joking, evoking "berserk rage" in E]

Actually, I was glad to see someone get the joke. :-)


[crummy-artifacts discussion]
> Yes, whenever I get a -5 Robe with no properties, I comfort myself by
> remembering it can't be corroded.

But at least it has a stylish name! How many other guys do you know on
the block wearing the Robe of Gross National Product!


> > Well, there's always Static Discharge. <rolleyes>
>
> Some of us LIKE doing horrid damage to ourselves and an unprecise
> number of other monsters. Heck, when most of the time it just hurts us,
> we don't mind!!

Staff of air, baby. Dis mah sheeut! (/me breaks out into an imitation
of the Ewoks singing Hollaback Girl)

> > There comes a point where you can't "escape the enemy to death"
> > anymore.
>
> And that would be when you descend those stairs into the Dungeon. :) 
> Actually, it seems to be when monsters start to grow ranged attacks,
> when water (and those cursed electric eels) appear, and basically any
> dungeon branch.

Oof. Yes. The snake pits are especially troublesome for the fact those
lightning-fast snakes often close back in bite you before you get to do
anything after your blink. I'm wondering if I shouldn't have lied to
Andrew and said that Gray Snakes resist poison. :-)

> [snip]
> > > Why not start as mage and play mage, of you're tired of fighters?
> >
> > As wizard? Because that's one challenge/taste experience, but there are
> > many others out there, and warpers are one of them.
> >
> > Because sometimes heavy challenges are fun.
> >
> > Because warpers are worth major street cred. :-)
>
> Yes, I bought a house with nothing but my victory dump from my spriggan
> warper on a floppy disk. ;) 

WHAT??? Get with the nils (the nulls? the zeros?) -- just send 'em a
link to your YAVP. Or post it on your blog. :-)

> [snip]
> > e.
>
> Definitely cool. e e cummings retro flashback totally.

The funny part is, I hate lowercasing in public fora. But I'm a lazy
signer. :-)

e.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 1:20:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <1123866843.183626.149370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Erik Piper <erik@sky.cz> wrote:
>bencillan@yahoo.com wrote:
>> And that would be when you descend those stairs into the Dungeon. :) 
>> Actually, it seems to be when monsters start to grow ranged attacks,
>> when water (and those cursed electric eels) appear, and basically any
>> dungeon branch.
>
>Oof. Yes. The snake pits are especially troublesome for the fact those
>lightning-fast snakes often close back in bite you before you get to do
>anything after your blink. I'm wondering if I shouldn't have lied to
>Andrew and said that Gray Snakes resist poison. :-)

Heh. Just because I think I can kill them doesn't mean I'm a lot more
eager to go there without resist poison, since I've got (as you noticed)
food issues. It cost me three rations, but I did the Hive, so that
ought to keep me ahead of the food curve for a while, and now I have an
honest-to-goodness crossbow.

I expect I'm still going to get killed by a Grey Snake, however :-)

>WHAT??? Get with the nils (the nulls? the zeros?) -- just send 'em a
>link to your YAVP. Or post it on your blog. :-)

The aughts?

-Andrew ()
!