Building Dual CPU system- opinions -long

[Guest]

Hi all.

I'm in the process of planning a new system for my work. I use a rather proprietary software called Folio Views to build flat databases. This process is rather processor intensive. My problem lies in the fact that while there are some good articles and benchmarks out there for dual systems, none of them run any tests that closely simulate what I do with my PC.

What I have now:
Dell Precision 620 (here before I was)
Dual 700mhz Xeon processors
Quantum SCSI HDD (2) @30Mb - 10000rpm Ultra166
128megs Rambus 800mhz

That's really the meat of the system, the other components don't mean much to my work...

What I would like to do is build a better system, but I'm lost as to wether a Dual 1.4 Mhz system that is NOT Xeon running SDRam (or DDR) is going to outperform the Xeon processors. No one mentions Xeon in their lab tests these days, grr!

What I've got in my head now is:
Dual OMG (as fast as I can get) Intel or AMD
1gig SD/DDR Ram (This depends on the processor choice)
Quantum Plus AS 60 set in an IDE 100 Raid (Striped) config

I'm afraid to build the system and find out it's slower than my current PC in a compiling environment. Rambus vs. SDRam, Xeon vs. P4 or AMD... IDE vs. SCSI... Too many choices!

Thanks for any replies, I'll be preparing to put out the flames that result from this one

 

[jclw]

Nothing against anyone here but you'll probably find more useful information over at <A HREF="http://www.2cpu.com" target="_new">http://www.2cpu.com</A>

BTW: What do you get for Sandra 2001 CPU scores with your Xeon system? For comparison I get:
- CPU ALU 4800 MIPS
- CPU FPU 2400 MFLOPS
with a dual PIII-800E (@ 900) on an Asus P2B-D (112FSB)

- JW

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by JCLW on 03/28/01 07:19 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

As far as I know, p4 does not support SMP mode as of yet. How much cache do your xeons have? If they are 1 or 2M versions, I say keep them around.

If you are running processor intensive apps, I would first check to make sure they properly support SMP (ie, they are multi-threaded applications). If not, then invest in a faster single-cpu system - MAKE SURE your app supports SSE before investing in P4. Athlon should be your choice otherwise.

In addition, I would recommend a RAM upgrade. 128MB on a large database platform, especially on W2K, is too little.

Regarding a new dual system, the current only viable options are from Intel - either a Via-based board with SDRAM/DDR or an Intel board with RDRAM. However, the Athlon 760MP chipset is due out in the summer. It will support PC266 DDR-SDRAM with the faster (1333+ MHz) Athlons

--------
I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

 

[jclw]

BTW if you have $$$ to spend:

Tyan has a dual P4 Xeon chipset (Intel860) based board out "soon":
8Gb Rambus
AGP 4x Pro
Two 64-Bit PCI
Three 32-Bit PCI
Dual Ultra-3 SCSI
Dual 10/100 Ethernet

Also Intel is supposed to release the 870 chipset in a week or two which is supposed to "sweep away any opposition that dual 760MP boards might or might not present to its corporate business".

Looks like the dual scene will get interesting soon...

- JW

 

[Guest]

as far as I know (which isn't much about dual systems) the best bet for dual systems at the moment is the newly released 900 Xeons with shite loads of cache, I would stay away from SMP on the athlons for a while until it is settled.

Have fun

M

Opinions are like arseholes .... everybody’s got one....

 

[Guest]

My chip specifics are 733mhz @ 133mhz FSB with 256k L2 cache (not real impressive for Xeons :tongue: )...

Sandra 2001 scores:
- ALU 3931 MIPS
- FPU 1873 MFLOPS

So now my question is, why would I want a XEON with only 256kb L2 cache? Am I missing something? Isn't this the same thing, as say, a Coppermine?

More info:
Dell Computer Corp 82840 840 Chipset (straight form Sandra)
256MBs RDRAM @300mhz (again, Sandra)

This is what I get for listening to Dell when I asked them to give me specifics. GRR! Gonna open the case when the boss is away *laughs*

Anyway, thanks for the comments so far, helps a lot.

High

 

[beans]

Highside -


Will Folio Views take advantage of a multiprocessor system?


beans

 

[Guest]

Highside,

You should still investigate whether or not your DB program actually takes full advantage of an SMP system. It is frivilous to spend big $$$ on a fancy dual Xeon (or other) system to have the program only run on one cpu at a time. That is, of course, if it is just that one program running at any one time - the OS and other programs would still run on the other cpu, but it is not the ideal situation.

So now my question is, why would I want a XEON with only 256kb L2 cache? Am I missing something? Isn't this the same thing, as say, a Coppermine?

yes, and no. The Xeon has better multi-processor support, and can be scalled to 4- and 8- way systems

256MBs RDRAM @300mhz (again, Sandra)

Just direct your thanks to Dell

If you are going to upgrade, definately replace the RAM with PC800 (although I think rambus should die a horrible, horrible death..... )
just get 2 128MB sticks to work with the dual-channel i840 chipset

Cheers

--------
I have not yet begun to procrastinate.

 

[Guest]

Folio Views does use both CPUs. So does my compile process (build). It is not a question wether to go dual or not, my confusion lies in what dual to go with... for instance, will a Dual Athlon outperform the Dual Xeons? I think JCLW's FPU and ALU test shows me that a Dual 800e outperforms my CPUs at 733 XEON, but then that's just on MIPS and MFLOPS. DOes this mean that 'everything' will be correspondingly faster?

And then there is the question of RDRAM vs SD/DDRRam... I understand the benefits/drawbacks in both, but which one is going to be more suitable for my situation, and will it really matter if I throw 1gig of SDRam at the solution, which is 4 times more than the 256megs I have presently.

Too many damn choices out there, no wonder why the stocks are taking a dive in the Tech field (and everywhere else :tongue: ) I actually know <i>something</i> about computers and hardware, and i'm afraid to buy! I feel sorry for those like my mom! *laughs*

 

[beans]

Highside -


Reason I asked the question is, I tracked down their website and queried their knowledgebase on "SMP" and "multiprocessor" and got zippo. Obviously you had already dug a little deeper.


The database applications I've been around have all been disk-bound unless there's problems with the queries. Next in line has been memory, and my impression is that having a lot of it is more important than its speed. But my experience has been with relational databases, and from what little I've seen Folio Views doesn't fit that model.

It would be great if you could get in touch with other Folio Views users who are in production in a multiprocessing environment. And, when it comes to the hardware questions you're asking, there's folks on this forum who know a lot more about it than I do.


Hope you get your answers. I'll be watching the thread with interest.


beans

 

[Guest]

I have been interested in the question of wether the Xoen is worth the extra money. I do 3D rendering, very fpu intensive. There isn't a whole lot of comparasins available. From what I have seen the Xeon has an advantage when the data comesing in large amounts quickly ie. web transactions. For along time the 3D comunity was told that the xeon was the ultimate in rendering, but it does not turn out that way. A single athalon 1200 is very close to being comperable to a dual Xeon or P3. The dual athalon according to what has been publicized will use both processors to near 100% the current dual P3 use one processor at 100% and the second at 60%. I am waiting for the dual Athalon systems because of there fpu prowess. By thre way this is the first that I have heard of a new P3 dual boards, but htey wont have the speed of the Athalon.
Anim88tor

 

[Guest]

Thanks beans.

The Builder is SMP, the Views program is not. The only reason I know this is from watching my cpu usage during a large build.

Folio, as a company, actually died about a year ago. The software will only be supported for another year at best. Its time to upgrade, but I don't make those decisions

I'm beginning to think that 1gig of RAM and some good ol' Coppermine's will do the trick. The RAM for the large files I edit, and the dual CPU power for the builds. Its a compromise. I'm afraid of AMD for compat. issues, and I'm sacred to death of any P4 solution for superstitious reasons *grin*