-Crawl- Is there a spoiler for cards?

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I'm not a nemelex worshipper at the moment but wonder if there are any
benifits to my deck of cards I just found which might be worth the
risk.

In another game I'd possibly just test it out, but with crawl wanting
you dead dead dead, I'd rather be spoiled


Rich

 

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God I hate crawl...

Doing really really really well. Snake pit and it's a breeze. Find a
nest of orcs which fall easily. Time to try out all the armours...

Does my guy decide to stop putting on armour when hit by a gray snake?
Does he bollocks! Just sits there happily getting dressed whilst
getting bitten to death!!!

That is just *wrong*. Being attacked whilst in the middle of learning a
spell, or changing armour or whatever should stop you dead in your
tracks. Sure let them get one attack in to interrupt you, but I just
sat there and died without being able to do *anything*.

Thus the only 100% safe way to try on armours would be to do it on
levels where you *know* there's nothing that can't kill you if it got 5
free attacks on you. Which is never for most of the game

REALLY PISSED at this one

 

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If it makes you feel any better, there probably wasn't any "good" or
"great" armors in that bunch, so you didn't really miss too much.

I've had that happen with a Mummy once... tried to memorize a spell on
a half-ways explored level, and got burnt to a crisp in 2 turns. XL

 

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>I wouldn't try on new armours in a hazardous area like the snake pit
>without finding myself a spot where the monsters' lanes of approach are
>heavily restricted.
>

Already done that. Only one line of approach down a corridoor and
that's where it came from Agree with you from a realist point of
view, but even with half my mail vest on I'd still consider stopping to
try and swat the thing with whatever I could lay my hands on irl, even
if i was somewhat encumbered whilst doing so. And realist arguments
don't really cut too much mustard in a game with wands of
lightning/fire/cold, either of which would have saved me should the
game have chosen to give me an arm free to zap one.

But again point taken. I did get bored of angband... Just think sitting
there still attempting to put your bit of armour on whilst getting your
ass handed to you is a bit unfair even by crawl standards


Rich

 

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Dafty wrote:
> >I wouldn't try on new armours in a hazardous area like the snake pit
> >without finding myself a spot where the monsters' lanes of approach are
> >heavily restricted.

I sometimes dig special armour-testing tunnels just for this purpose,
ideally at the edges of a level. All in all trying to stay on a
little-visited branch of the AI decision tree. I make them all crooked
and spirally too just because it feels even safer.

That said, I *still* try to be on a cleared level when doing armours.
One "skeletal warrior appears out of nowhere and kills you before you
can react" was enough to teach me for good. I hope.

e.

 

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>But again point taken. I did get bored of angband... Just think sitting
>there still attempting to put your bit of armour on whilst getting your
>ass handed to you is a bit unfair even by crawl standards
>

I take it back. A bunch of 3 Slime Creatures on DL2 is definitely less
fair Well there may have been more, thats how many I saw as I
rounded a corner into a room. Running away wasn't an option at this
early stage


Rich

 

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"Dafty" <richard.clements@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>God I hate crawl...
>
>Doing really really really well. Snake pit and it's a breeze. Find a
>nest of orcs which fall easily. Time to try out all the armours...
>
>Does my guy decide to stop putting on armour when hit by a gray snake?
>Does he bollocks! Just sits there happily getting dressed whilst
>getting bitten to death!!!

Putting on armour is not like putting on a tank-top and a pair of
trackie bottoms. It's hard to say where the balance point between the
gamist and realist arguments on this one, but there is a definite
realist argument for saying that there are indeed points in the process
of donning a piece of armour where your options are "be helpless while
you finish the job" or "be helpless because your half-donned armour is
in the way of you doing anything except finishing putting on that piece
of armour."

>That is just *wrong*. Being attacked whilst in the middle of learning a
>spell, or changing armour or whatever should stop you dead in your
>tracks. Sure let them get one attack in to interrupt you, but I just
>sat there and died without being able to do *anything*.
>
>Thus the only 100% safe way to try on armours would be to do it on
>levels where you *know* there's nothing that can't kill you if it got 5
>free attacks on you. Which is never for most of the game

If you want 100% safety, Angband is ----> over there.

I wouldn't try on new armours in a hazardous area like the snake pit
without finding myself a spot where the monsters' lanes of approach are
heavily restricted.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
illusion/kinetics controlling is love

 

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Dafty wrote:
> I'm not a nemelex worshipper at the moment but wonder if there are any
> benifits to my deck of cards I just found which might be worth the
> risk.
>

So IS there a spoiler for cards?

Will

 

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Will Shattuck писал(а):

> Dafty wrote:
> > I'm not a nemelex worshipper at the moment but wonder if there are any
> > benifits to my deck of cards I just found which might be worth the
> > risk.
> So IS there a spoiler for cards?
I guess the best answer will be "Read the source, Luke!" (c)

 

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Martin Read wrote:
> "Dafty" <richard.clements@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >God I hate crawl...
> >
> >Doing really really really well. Snake pit and it's a breeze. Find a
> >nest of orcs which fall easily. Time to try out all the armours...
> >
> >Does my guy decide to stop putting on armour when hit by a gray snake?
> >Does he bollocks! Just sits there happily getting dressed whilst
> >getting bitten to death!!!
>
> Putting on armour is not like putting on a tank-top and a pair of
> trackie bottoms. It's hard to say where the balance point between the
> gamist and realist arguments on this one, but there is a definite
> realist argument for saying that there are indeed points in the process
> of donning a piece of armour where your options are "be helpless while
> you finish the job" or "be helpless because your half-donned armour is
> in the way of you doing anything except finishing putting on that piece
> of armour."

I don't particularly care about the realist arguement one way or the
other. After all, the time scale in roguelikes is already entirely
arbitrary.

My question has always been what the *gamist* theory of multi-turn
armor donning is. There is the idea that we don't want players
swapping armour every turn during a fight. However, if taking off or
donning a piece of armour cost a normal game turn, there's already be a
significant disadvantage to swapping armour in combat. A turn spent
swapping armour is a turn not spent attacking the enemy. Are there
cases in Crawl where you would happily swap between armours if it only
cost two actions? One action? Zero actions?

What motivates this demand for long-actions for armour donning? Is it
just the realist dimmension? Or do people want to be forced into
building special designed safe-rooms on carefully cleared levels just
to change their clothes? Or do people like the insta-death: "Whoops, I
didn't know that took more than one turn as I never did it in front of
an enemy before..." effect?

In POWDER I have so far eschewed all multi-turn actions, not just for
technical reasons, but also because I'm not convinced it adds a
positive experience to gameplay. I know I haven't missed it yet, but I
know other's tastes vary from mine, so am curious what others think.
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)

 

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"Jeff Lait" <torespondisfutile@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124401161.372432.181590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> I don't particularly care about the realist arguement one way
or the
> other. After all, the time scale in roguelikes is already
entirely
> arbitrary.
>
> My question has always been what the *gamist* theory of
multi-turn
> armor donning is. There is the idea that we don't want
players
> swapping armour every turn during a fight. However, if taking
off or
> donning a piece of armour cost a normal game turn, there's
already be a
> significant disadvantage to swapping armour in combat. A turn
spent
> swapping armour is a turn not spent attacking the enemy. Are
there
> cases in Crawl where you would happily swap between armours if
it only
> cost two actions? One action? Zero actions?

Yes; definitely yes; and "this would be practically all I would
do", to take your questions in order. In Crawl (and in my
distant, fading recollection of Adom), resistances are very
important, the chief way to get them is through equipment, and
few pieces of equipment are optimal in all situations. And
similarly with PV/DV or AC/EV: sometimes you want a lot of one,
sometimes you want a lot of the other, seldom can you have both.
If it took zero turns to switch armor, you'd optimize your setup
before every nasty monster. This would be horrible.

On the other hand, in Nethack, you're probably just going to put
on whatever your favorite armor is and leave it on, because for
the most part dragon mail>plate mail>chain mail>ring
mail>leather armor, and so you just walk around in whatever the
best thing you have on hand is. If POWDER is like Nethack,
there probably isn't a compelling "gamist" reason to forbid
superfast armor changes.

> What motivates this demand for long-actions for armour
donning? Is it
> just the realist dimmension? Or do people want to be forced
into
> building special designed safe-rooms on carefully cleared
levels just
> to change their clothes? Or do people like the insta-death:
"Whoops, I
> didn't know that took more than one turn as I never did it in
front of
> an enemy before..." effect?

Yes. All those reasons. And also: if something is possible and
highly beneficiary, either game balance is broken (I can always
instantly swap armors in a tight spot), or the new armor
swapping needs to be taken into account, and then everybody has
to constantly swap equipment all the time, and that would be
very annoying.

--
Jeremey