-Crawl- Neophyte: Crawl wants me dead or..?

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Hi rgrm!

I'm a first time poster, and new to Crawl (although I've
been playing roguelikes for something like 15 years, and
been lurking around rgr* for quite some time too). There
are fifty two chars on my scoreboard, this one's the last
and the best. Actually, I had such an easy going I thought
I might score my first win. Of course, RNG punished me for
my insolence.

[spoiler space]
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SpVM (gotta love those guys), lots of spell points thanks
to two rings of magical power, varied attack spells,
couldn't do the Mines or the Lair, lacking spell slots for
the Dig. Decided to descend further into the main dungeon.
Healed, rested, ate, prayed to Vehumet, went downstairs.
Room full of critters. Half a dozen centaurs, several orc
grunts and an orc wizard. Unfortunately, all of them were
rather scattered all around me. A couple of centaurs ate
Mephitic Cloud (gotta love SpVMs!) on my first turn.
Nobody moved, and I got another turn. Orcish wizard ate
Mephitic Cloud, too. Critters moved, centaurs shot some
arrows at me I think, but I was still unharmed. However, a
confused centaur and one of the orcs was now right next to
me. I decided it was time to even the odds somewhat and
tried to go back upstairs. *HACK* *HACK* *SLASH* *TWANG*
*TWANG* *TWANG*, 46 hp of damage in one turn, R.I.P.

So what did I do wrong? Blinking was out of question -
with all those centaurs and no convenient corridors in my
LOS and out of theirs. Teleport wouldn't do me a world of
good with this ridiculous crawlish delay on it Should
going upstairs have been my first action on seeing all
those monsters? Wouldn't centaurs still shot me dead with
that free turn they'd get?

Char dump follows:

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Xv3n the Tainter (Spriggan)
(Level 11 Venom Mage)

Play time: 04:33:18 Number of turns: 16922

Experience : 11/13667
Strength 4
Dexterity 16
Intelligence 21
Hit Points : -2/44 (dead)
Magic Points : 46/51
AC : 10
Evasion : 11
Shield : 0
GP : 88

You are on level 12.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is extremely pleased with you.
You are full.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +1,+3 dagger
x - a +2,+2 orcish morningstar of protection
F - a +0,+2 orcish mace of protection
L - a +0,+1 flail of protection (weapon)
Armour
e - a +0 cloak (worn)
I - a +3 robe (worn)
Magical devices
g - a wand of digging (0)

> Arrrg. Unid'ed.

Comestibles
d - a bread ration
f - a pear
p - 3 meat rations
Scrolls
j - 2 scrolls of fear
y - a scroll of blinking
z - a scroll of recharging

> Grrr.

B - a scroll of paper
H - 7 scrolls of teleportation
K - 3 scrolls of remove curse
Jewellery
b - a ring of teleportation
This ring occasionally exerts its power to randomly
translocate its wearer
to another place, and can be deliberately activated for
the same effect.
It weighs around 1.0 aum.

> I suspected it was a ring of teleportation, but didn't
> know for sure, and without 'v' I didn't even know it
> could be activated. Would that teleport still be delayed
> I wonder?

n - a ring of magical power (right hand)
This ring increases its wearer's reserves of magical
power.
It weighs around 1.0 aum.
v - a ring of magical power (left hand)
This ring increases its wearer's reserves of magical
power.
It weighs around 1.0 aum.
D - a ring of levitation
This ring allows its wearer to hover above the floor.
It weighs around 1.0 aum.
Potions
h - a potion of paralysis
i - 7 potions of healing
l - a potion of invisibility
o - 2 potions of poison
r - 2 potions of restore abilities
t - 4 potions of might
A - 3 potions of speed
C - 3 potions of degeneration
P - 2 potions of slowing
Q - 2 potions of confusion
W - a potion of heal wounds
Books
E - a book of Cantrips


You have 1 experience left.

Skills:
- Level 1 Short Blades
- Level 3 Dodging
- Level 4 Stealth
+ Level 9 Spellcasting
+ Level 10 Conjurations
+ Level 2 Fire Magic
+ Level 4 Air Magic
+ Level 12 Poison Magic
+ Level 1 Evocations


You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Typ
Success Level
a - Sting Poison/Conjuration
Excellent 1
b - Cure Poison Poison
Excellent 2
c - Mephitic Cloud Poison/Air/Conjuration
Excellent 3
d - Magic Dart Conjuration
Excellent 1
e - Venom Bolt Poison/Conjuration
Excellent 5
f - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration
Excellent 2
g - Stone Arrow Earth/Conjuration
Excellent 3
h - Fireball Fire/Conjuration
Good 6
i - Spider Form Poison/Transmigration
Great 3
j - Detect Secret Doors Divination
Very Good 1



--
roy axenov

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Elethiomel wrote:
> roy axenov wrote:
>> Hi rgrm!
>>
>> I'm a first time poster, and new to Crawl (although
>> I've been playing roguelikes for something like 15
>> years, and been lurking around rgr* for quite some time
>> too). There are fifty two chars on my scoreboard, this
>> one's the last and the best. Actually, I had such an
>> easy going I thought I might score my first win. Of
>> course, RNG punished me for my insolence.
>
> The RNG does that.

(Praise the RNG!)

>> [spoiler space]
>
> Not usual on RGRM, but I'll preserve it anyway.
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[horrible story involving orcs, centaurs, going upstairs
and one particularly unlucky SpVM]

>> So what did I do wrong? Blinking was out of question -
>> with all those centaurs and no convenient corridors in
>> my LOS and out of theirs. Teleport wouldn't do me a
>> world of good with this ridiculous crawlish delay on it
>> Should going upstairs have been my first action on
>> seeing all those monsters? Wouldn't centaurs still shot
>> me dead with that free turn they'd get?
>
> I'd say that the first thing you did was right -
> mephitic cloud the centaurs. This buys you time to run
> away, because when they're confused they aren't shooting
> at you. It's possible the centaurs were less confused
> after the round you used mephitic cloud-ing the orcish
> wizard.

Well, I didn't confuse them *all*. Mephitic Cloud affects
3x3 area, and, as I said, those centaurs were spread out.
Only two were close enough together than I could confuse
them both with that one MC. Other four or five were
unaffected.

>> Inventory:
>> Hand weapons
>> a - a +1,+3 dagger
>> x - a +2,+2 orcish morningstar of protection F - a
>> +0,+2 orcish mace of protection
>> L - a +0,+1 flail of protection (weapon)
>
> Why carrying so many different weapons of protection?

Found x and F on some orcs shortly before YASD. Since I
wasn't encumbered, there was no reason in stashing them
immediately, but I decided to keep 'em just in case
(unexpected-jellies-beyond-the-corner or something).

>> Magical devices
>> g - a wand of digging (0)
>>> Arrrg. Unid'ed.
>
> yes, too bad.
>
>> Scrolls
>> z - a scroll of recharging
>>> Grrr.
>
> Especially with this one available.

Unid'ed, too.

--
roy axenov

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

roy axenov wrote:
> Hi rgrm!
>
> I'm a first time poster, and new to Crawl (although I've
> been playing roguelikes for something like 15 years, and
> been lurking around rgr* for quite some time too). There
> are fifty two chars on my scoreboard, this one's the last
> and the best. Actually, I had such an easy going I thought
> I might score my first win. Of course, RNG punished me for
> my insolence.

The RNG does that.

>
> [spoiler space]

Not usual on RGRM, but I'll preserve it anyway.

> .
> .
> .
> .
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>
> SpVM (gotta love those guys), lots of spell points thanks
> to two rings of magical power, varied attack spells,
> couldn't do the Mines or the Lair, lacking spell slots for
> the Dig. Decided to descend further into the main dungeon.
> Healed, rested, ate, prayed to Vehumet, went downstairs.
> Room full of critters. Half a dozen centaurs, several orc
> grunts and an orc wizard. Unfortunately, all of them were
> rather scattered all around me. A couple of centaurs ate
> Mephitic Cloud (gotta love SpVMs!) on my first turn.
> Nobody moved, and I got another turn. Orcish wizard ate
> Mephitic Cloud, too. Critters moved, centaurs shot some
> arrows at me I think, but I was still unharmed. However, a
> confused centaur and one of the orcs was now right next to
> me. I decided it was time to even the odds somewhat and
> tried to go back upstairs. *HACK* *HACK* *SLASH* *TWANG*
> *TWANG* *TWANG*, 46 hp of damage in one turn, R.I.P.

Ouch.

>
> So what did I do wrong? Blinking was out of question -
> with all those centaurs and no convenient corridors in my
> LOS and out of theirs. Teleport wouldn't do me a world of
> good with this ridiculous crawlish delay on it Should
> going upstairs have been my first action on seeing all
> those monsters? Wouldn't centaurs still shot me dead with
> that free turn they'd get?

I'd say that the first thing you did was right - mephitic cloud the
centaurs. This buys you time to run away, because when they're confused
they aren't shooting at you. It's possible the centaurs were less
confused after the round you used mephitic cloud-ing the orcish wizard.

I have very limited experience with Mephitic Cloud, though, so I can't
say for sure.


>
> Inventory:
> Hand weapons
> a - a +1,+3 dagger
> x - a +2,+2 orcish morningstar of protection
> F - a +0,+2 orcish mace of protection
> L - a +0,+1 flail of protection (weapon)

Why carrying so many different weapons of protection?

> Magical devices
> g - a wand of digging (0)
>>Arrrg. Unid'ed.

yes, too bad.

> Scrolls
> z - a scroll of recharging
>>Grrr.

Especially with this one available.

> Jewellery
> b - a ring of teleportation
> This ring occasionally exerts its power to randomly
> translocate its wearer
> to another place, and can be deliberately activated for
> the same effect.
> It weighs around 1.0 aum.
>
>>I suspected it was a ring of teleportation, but didn't
>>know for sure, and without 'v' I didn't even know it
>>could be activated. Would that teleport still be delayed
>>I wonder?

Yes. And with one extra turn, to boot, because you'd have to put it on.
Assuming you had a free ring hand. If you didn't, *two* extra turns.
*And* it has a failure rate.

While wearing it, it's activated much as you activate god-given powers -
with the 'a' command. It's on the same list, so the surest way to find
out if an un-IDed ring is a ring of teleportation is to press a and see
if "Evoke teleportation" appears on the list. Success rate depends on
Evocations skill. If you wanted to you could wear it all the time, but
the random teleportation (that can be cancelled once you get "you feel
strangely unstable" by successfully using a source of teleportation -
such as the ring) is pretty tiresome to watch over and if you forget to
take it off on levels where you *don't* want to be uncontrolledly
teleporting (bottom of the Snake Pit comes to mind) it can cost you
precious turns to deactivate. And as I said, it has a failure rate.

> Skills:
> - Level 1 Short Blades
> - Level 3 Dodging
> - Level 4 Stealth
> + Level 9 Spellcasting
> + Level 10 Conjurations
> + Level 2 Fire Magic
> + Level 4 Air Magic
> + Level 12 Poison Magic

> + Level 1 Evocations

Not nearly enough to activate =oT with any reasonable sprobability of
success.

>
>
> You have one spell level left.
> You know the following spells:

I don't know enough about VMes to know anything about your spell selection.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

> Well, I didn't confuse them *all*. Mephitic Cloud affects
> 3x3 area, and, as I said, those centaurs were spread out.
> Only two were close enough together than I could confuse
> them both with that one MC. Other four or five were
> unaffected.

Damn didn't realise there were that many centaurs! I've seen one get
two lucky hits with arrows of fire or something and take off 50hp in
one round! Unless you've got very high AC or EV or dodging, or lots of
HP, centaurs you just get out of line of site as soon as possible. If I
decended into an open area and saw more than 1 I'd immediately go back
up the stairs. If I saw one and no reasonable method of either
incapicating it in 1 round, or getting out of line of site, i'd still
go back up the stairs. Looks like mephitic cloud would have worked if
there weren't so many of them.

I've only tried one venom mage myself, and found them very easy and fun
in the first 10 levels or so, but then you start meeting stuff that's
immune to poison... You were training fire magic too which would have
worked, until you'd met stuff immune to fire and poison, but that's
quite a way into the game

I usually find you can do the orc mines without digging, but often need
to descend to the 2nd level and come back up to find the stairs you
need to get to all of level 1. Magic mapping can be a real help
obviously. Be very careful though, orc knights can sometimes show up
quite shallow and they are seriously nasty first time you meet them.

But in short, yes crawl wants you dead, and there are a lot more unfair
ways to die than the one you just found Yet somehow no matter how
pissed off a death gets me I still keep coming back for more!


Rich

 

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Dafty wrote:
>> Well, I didn't confuse them *all*. Mephitic Cloud
>> affects 3x3 area, and, as I said, those centaurs were
>> spread out. Only two were close enough together than I
>> could confuse them both with that one MC. Other four or
>> five were unaffected.
>
> Damn didn't realise there were that many centaurs! I've
> seen one get two lucky hits with arrows of fire or
> something and take off 50hp in one round! Unless you've
> got very high AC or EV or dodging, or lots of HP,
> centaurs you just get out of line of site as soon as
> possible. If I decended into an open area and saw more
> than 1 I'd immediately go back up the stairs.

....yeah, but they'd *still* get that free round.

> If I saw one and no reasonable method of either
> incapicating it in 1 round, or getting out of line of
> site, i'd still go back up the stairs. Looks like
> mephitic cloud would have worked if there weren't so
> many of them.

Probably I should've left that orc wiz alone, and MC'ed me
another couple of c's. Would've made the situation more
manageable.

> I've only tried one venom mage myself, and found them
> very easy and fun in the first 10 levels or so, but then
> you start meeting stuff that's immune to poison... You
> were training fire magic too which would have worked,
> until you'd met stuff immune to fire and poison, but
> that's quite a way into the game

I'm not certain how great they are in a long run - I
haven't seen that much of the game yet, but VMs certainly
are *great fun*. MC+Sting work wonders. And for those
ghosts/phantoms/jellies I had Magic Dart and Throw Flame.

> I usually find you can do the orc mines without digging,
> but often need to descend to the 2nd level and come back
> up to find the stairs you need to get to all of level 1.
> Magic mapping can be a real help obviously. Be very
> careful though, orc knights can sometimes show up quite
> shallow and they are seriously nasty first time you meet
> them.

Don't tell me. Orc warriors are scary enough, thank you
very much.

--
roy axenov

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> roy axenov wrote:
>> Hi rgrm!
>>
>> I'm a first time poster, and new to Crawl (although
>> I've been playing roguelikes for something like 15
>> years, and been lurking around rgr* for quite some time
>> too). There are fifty two chars on my scoreboard, this
>> one's the last and the best. Actually, I had such an
>> easy going I thought I might score my first win.
>
> Congratulations on your progression past teething! It's
> a big accomplishment.

Hehe, thanks. I wonder how long it'll take to get to
YAFVP. With my ADOM experience I've beaten NetHack in
about one month. Crawl looks quite a bit nastier, though.

> [Digging 101]
>
>> Decided to descend further into the main dungeon.
>> Healed, rested, ate, prayed to Vehumet, went
>> downstairs. Room full of critters. Half a dozen
>> centaurs, several orc grunts and an orc wizard.
>> Unfortunately, all of them were rather scattered all
>> around me.
>
> When you see something like that and you're a spriggan,
> turn tail and leave unless you have Deflect Missiles or
> at least Repel Missiles. Your advantages are worthless
> in that situation, and your frailty is at its most
> dangerous.

....but that free turn of theirs... They could still do the
same thing to me - even worse, actually, because those two
I MC'ed would be shooting at me too. Oh, Crawl *is* nasty.

>> Teleport wouldn't do me a world of
>> good with this ridiculous crawlish delay on it
>
> Oh, the delay is a *good* thing. It makes the choice
> between teleportation and other solutions more
> interesting.

Agreed. Nasty, but fun. Crawl's creators/maintainers
certainly had a good sense for playability.

>> Evasion : 11
>
> Surprisingly low evasion for a level 11 Spriggan... but
> then experience points don't grow on trees, so I
> understand.

*shrug* With that Amazing Spriggan Speed monsters simply
didn't have a lot of opportunities at hitting me... until
centaurs appeared, that is. Nevertheless, pumping up
casting skills seemed more important to me at the moment.

>> You are full.
>
> It's clear from this that you've been eating rations
> when not in a food crisis: chunks can't take you up to
> full without an Amulet of the Gourmand, and eating
> rations to avoid starvation won't do it either. You'll
> survive better on the whole if you don't do that.

Well, one thing I didn't have any problems with in Crawl
was food. Haven't played Centaurs/Trolls, though.

>> Inventory:
>> Hand weapons
>> a - a +1,+3 dagger
>> x - a +2,+2 orcish morningstar of protection F - a
>> +0,+2 orcish mace of protection
>> L - a +0,+1 flail of protection (weapon)
>
> *One* shall be enough! (I never get tired of saying
> that.)

A couple of recent finds, as I explained in another post.
It's not me hoarding 'of protection' weapons, just RNG
Doing His Thing.

>> Comestibles
>> d - a bread ration
>> f - a pear
>> p - 3 meat rations
>
> I'd've skipped the bread ration, mostly for the extra
> slot. Meat rations are BTW a slightly better choice for
> first consumption -- there's always the distant
> possibility you'll get two levels of the Herbivore
> mutation, in which case you'll be limited to the bread
> rations, and then you'll appreciate every one of them
> you have left.

Spriggans don't seem to need slots as much as they need
carrying capacity. Probably should've put some increases
into strength...

*sigh* I thought I knew what 'carrying capacity problems'
were. Playing a Monk without a girdle of carrying/giant
strength/strength of Atlas in ADOM. Or having to use a
wish from the castle wand on bag of holding in NetHack.
Now I know better.

>> Potions
>> h - a potion of paralysis
>> i - 7 potions of healing
>> l - a potion of invisibility
>> o - 2 potions of poison
>> r - 2 potions of restore abilities
>> t - 4 potions of might
>> A - 3 potions of speed
>> C - 3 potions of degeneration
>> P - 2 potions of slowing
>> Q - 2 potions of confusion
>> W - a potion of heal wounds
>
> Crawl is not Nethack. Identify your potions as soon
> as you get them, or after having two of a kind,
> depending on which School of Potion ID you decide to
> adhere to. (I presume you hadn't identified your
> potions, considering the amount of detrimental ones and
> the fact that you hadn't learned Evaporate.)

With those potions of degeneration out there? I'm not sure
if this is a good idea. Finding ?oID is *hard*, though. I
thought NetHack's ID was evil compared to ADOM's. Now I
know better!

>> + Level 12 Poison Magic
>
> I tend to turn this skill off immediately with my poison
> mages. Sure, keeping it on helps survivability early on,
> but SpVMs are already pretty survivable early on,
> whereas the long term presents a challenge for them. And
> the skill will grow plenty even as it is.

Hmmm. I might be wrong, but I think I would've died a bit
earlier without that. There was an anthill a few levels
before. Only MC/Venom Bolt carried me through that.

>> b - Cure Poison Poison
>> Excellent 2
>
> A tough call, but leaving this one out is worth
> considering.

With Spriggan HPs? A potential life-saver early in the
game. At this point I would've considered it for deletion
if I had Selective Amnesia, though.

>> d - Magic Dart Conjuration Excellent
>> 1
>
> Great move.
>
>> f - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration
>> Excellent 2
>> g - Stone Arrow Earth/Conjuration
>> Excellent 3
>> h - Fireball Fire/Conjuration Good
>> 6
>
> As were these.

Yeah, RNG was kind enough to supply me with a Book of
Conjurations.

>> i - Spider Form Poison/Transmigration
>> Great 3
>
> This, on the other hand... you don't know how to fight,
> so it's not much good for fighting, and you already are
> able to run, so it's not needed for running.

Having never seen it before I simply didn't know what it
really did. Tried it once, never used it again.

>> j - Detect Secret Doors Divination Very Good
>> 1
>
> Not even worth a half a level.

Hmmm? Training divination doesn't sound worthless to me.
It *is* pretty useless otherwise, though.

--
roy axenov

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

roy axenov wrote:
> Erik Piper wrote:
> > roy axenov wrote:

> >> Evasion : 11
> >
> > Surprisingly low evasion for a level 11 Spriggan... but
> > then experience points don't grow on trees, so I
> > understand.
>
> *shrug* With that Amazing Spriggan Speed monsters simply
> didn't have a lot of opportunities at hitting me... until
> centaurs appeared, that is. Nevertheless, pumping up
> casting skills seemed more important to me at the moment.

Skill costs rise the higher skills get, so once your main skills get
high, it becomes a good investment to nudge up other, previously
ignored skills. You may well have been able to evade some of the shots
with better evasion.

> >> You are full.
> >
> > It's clear from this that you've been eating rations
> > when not in a food crisis: chunks can't take you up to
> > full without an Amulet of the Gourmand, and eating
> > rations to avoid starvation won't do it either. You'll
> > survive better on the whole if you don't do that.
>
> Well, one thing I didn't have any problems with in Crawl
> was food. Haven't played Centaurs/Trolls, though.

Trolls are no problem, since they can eat chunks even when not hungry,
and chunks that sometimes make you sick ("contaminated" chunks --
humanoids, etc.) only make Trolls sick a very small part of the time.

> > [a slots thing]

> Spriggans don't seem to need slots as much as they need
> carrying capacity. Probably should've put some increases
> into strength...
>
> *sigh* I thought I knew what 'carrying capacity problems'
> were. Playing a Monk without a girdle of carrying/giant
> strength/strength of Atlas in ADOM. Or having to use a
> wish from the castle wand on bag of holding in NetHack.
> Now I know better.

That's why I mentioned the flails.

> > [potions should be usage-ID'ed]

> With those potions of degeneration out there?

Yes, even still. Potions of restore abilities are not too rare, and the
chances of a truly bad hit are one in 3 (low strength you'll already be
dealing with anyway and low dexterity is not too important in the
spellcaster's early game).

A bigger problem is potions of mutation. These are rarer, but the
potential for damage is much greater. For that reason, many people stop
usage-ID'ing potions once a certain amount has been identified.

> Finding ?oID is *hard*, though.

Fortunately, they are needed much less than in Nethack and ADOM --
Crawl is, overall, usage-ID-friendly.

> >> + Level 12 Poison Magic
> >
> > I tend to turn this skill off immediately with my poison
> > mages. Sure, keeping it on helps survivability early on,
> > but SpVMs are already pretty survivable early on,
> > whereas the long term presents a challenge for them. And
> > the skill will grow plenty even as it is.
>
> Hmmm. I might be wrong, but I think I would've died a bit
> earlier without that. There was an anthill a few levels
> before. Only MC/Venom Bolt carried me through that.

And your speed... which would have carried you through even with more
XP moved into spellcasting/conjurations/etc.

> >> b - Cure Poison Poison
> >> Excellent 2
> >
> > A tough call, but leaving this one out is worth
> > considering.
>
> With Spriggan HPs? A potential life-saver early in the
> game.

That's why I call it a tough call. Consider the fact, though, that most
characters (even Spriggans) go Cure Poison and also survive.

> >> j - Detect Secret Doors Divination Very Good
> >> 1
> >
> > Not even worth a half a level.
>
> Hmmm? Training divination doesn't sound worthless to me.
> It *is* pretty useless otherwise, though.

A slot is a slot, though. Divinations you could have trained with a
level 2 spell instead... generally cantrips are best for characters
that have no hope of getting started via a level 2 spell.

e.

 

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On 22 Aug 2005 10:22:31 -0700, "roy axenov" <r_axenov@mail.ru> wrote:

>So what did I do wrong? Blinking was out of question -
>with all those centaurs and no convenient corridors in my
>LOS and out of theirs. Teleport wouldn't do me a world of
>good with this ridiculous crawlish delay on it Should
>going upstairs have been my first action on seeing all
>those monsters?

I would have.

>Wouldn't centaurs still shot me dead with
>that free turn they'd get?

Maybe, but then that's what Stealth is for.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com

 

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In article <1124731351.875311.144740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
roy axenov <r_axenov@mail.ru> wrote:
>*TWANG* *TWANG*, 46 hp of damage in one turn, R.I.P.
>
>So what did I do wrong?
(snip)
>Evasion : 11
(snip)
> - Level 3 Dodging

There you go. Spriggans are great for running away, but sooner or later
you're going to get shot at or thumped. You _must_ have a decent EV or
AC by the midgame or you're in trouble, and as a spellcasting Spriggan
EV it has to be! With a higher Dodging and hence EV those arrows might
have missed. OTOH, maybe the RNG just hated you that game and you'd have
died anyway .

--
Mark Mackey
The Association for the Advancement of Dungeon Crawling
Hints, tips and spoilers
http://www.swallowtail.org/crawl/

 

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roy axenov писал(а):


I want to talk some other matters - aptitude ones:

> Skills:
> - Level 1 Short Blades
> - Level 3 Dodging
> - Level 4 Stealth
> + Level 9 Spellcasting
> + Level 10 Conjurations
160

> + Level 2 Fire Magic
140

> + Level 4 Air Magic
120

> + Level 12 Poison Magic
100, OK

> + Level 1 Evocations

This character will face MASSIVE problems later on due to these
aptitudes.
Your poison aptitude is fair, that is. When it stops working, you'll
have problems with chosen path of fire conjurations, because you in
fact have got 160 on conjurations and 140 on fire magic.

Spriggans are cool, but spriggan fire conjurer is something unfit, I
think.
Wonder how you could get conjurations to 10 with 160 un-aptitude,
thought.

P.S. Ne ssy protiv vetra!

 

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Erik Piper wrote:
> roy axenov wrote:
>> Erik Piper wrote:
>>> roy axenov wrote:
>
>> Finding ?oID is *hard*, though.
>
> Fortunately, they are needed much less than in Nethack
> and ADOM -- Crawl is, overall, usage-ID-friendly.

Um, regarding ID. I wonder what my recent HDGl should've
done with all those piles of stuff from Orcish Mines. He
had no detect curse/remove curse left, and by my
calculations, he'd need something like five or six detect
curses to ID all that stuff. Just leaving it be didn't
seem all too appealing - missing a good ego armour or
weapon isn't really nice.

>>>> + Level 12 Poison Magic
>>>
>>> I tend to turn this skill off immediately with my
>>> poison mages. Sure, keeping it on helps survivability
>>> early on, but SpVMs are already pretty survivable
>>> early on, whereas the long term presents a challenge
>>> for them. And the skill will grow plenty even as it
>>> is.
>>
>> Hmmm. I might be wrong, but I think I would've died a
>> bit earlier without that. There was an anthill a few
>> levels before. Only MC/Venom Bolt carried me through
>> that.
>
> And your speed... which would have carried you through
> even with more XP moved into
> spellcasting/conjurations/etc.

*sigh* Perhaps you're right here.

>>>> b - Cure Poison Poison
>>>> Excellent 2
>>>
>>> A tough call, but leaving this one out is worth
>>> considering.
>>
>> With Spriggan HPs? A potential life-saver early in the
>> game.
>
> That's why I call it a tough call. Consider the fact,
> though, that most characters (even Spriggans) go Cure
> Poison and also survive.

Hmmm... but still, is Sel. Amnesia that rare to really
bother about optimizing slots early on?

>>>> j - Detect Secret Doors Divination Very Good
>>>> 1
>>>
>>> Not even worth a half a level.
>>
>> Hmmm? Training divination doesn't sound worthless to
>> me. It *is* pretty useless otherwise, though.
>
> A slot is a slot, though. Divinations you could have
> trained with a level 2 spell instead... generally
> cantrips are best for characters that have no hope of
> getting started via a level 2 spell.

Hmm, I had no lvl 2 Divinations at that point in the game
- but if I'd get one later on, I would already have some
Divination skill under my belt.

--
roy axenov

 

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Mark Mackey wrote:
> In article
> <1124731351.875311.144740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> roy axenov <r_axenov@mail.ru> wrote:
>> *TWANG* *TWANG*, 46 hp of damage in one turn, R.I.P.
>>
>> So what did I do wrong?
> (snip)
>> Evasion : 11
> (snip)
>> - Level 3 Dodging
>
> There you go. Spriggans are great for running away, but
> sooner or later you're going to get shot at or thumped.
> You _must_ have a decent EV or AC by the midgame or
> you're in trouble, and as a spellcasting Spriggan EV it
> has to be! With a higher Dodging and hence EV those
> arrows might have missed.

That's 'Learning Through Dying', a common thing in
the roguelikes' world.

> OTOH, maybe the RNG just hated you that game and you'd
> have died anyway .

It's not really hate, he's just toying with us all.

On a side note, Xom is a truly wonderful (and hilarious)
invention.

--
roy axenov

 

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R. Dan Henry wrote:
> On 22 Aug 2005 10:22:31 -0700, "roy axenov"
> <r_axenov@mail.ru> wrote:

[usefulness of Dodge]

>> Wouldn't centaurs still shot me dead with that free
>> turn they'd get?
>
> Maybe, but then that's what Stealth is for.

....and I keep hearing that generalists don't fare well in
Crawl.

--
roy axenov

 

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roy axenov wrote:
> Erik Piper wrote:
> > roy axenov wrote:
> >> Erik Piper wrote:
> >>> roy axenov wrote:

> Um, regarding ID. I wonder what my recent HDGl should've
> done with all those piles of stuff from Orcish Mines. He
> had no detect curse/remove curse left, and by my
> calculations, he'd need something like five or six detect
> curses to ID all that stuff. Just leaving it be didn't
> seem all too appealing - missing a good ego armour or
> weapon isn't really nice.

Dive some more, get some more ?oDC, come back. Over time, you learn
subtle little things that conserve the two scroll types and this kind
of crisis becomes less frequent, as well.

[Cure Poison]
> Hmmm... but still, is Sel. Amnesia that rare to really
> bother about optimizing slots early on?

When you really need it? Yes.

> [in another posts: generalists]

Pssst... generalists do just fine.

e.

 

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Ilyak wrote:
> roy axenov писал(а):
>
> I want to talk some other matters - aptitude ones:
>
>> Skills:
>> - Level 1 Short Blades
>> - Level 3 Dodging
>> - Level 4 Stealth
>> + Level 9 Spellcasting
>> + Level 10 Conjurations
> 160
>
>> + Level 2 Fire Magic
> 140
>
>> + Level 4 Air Magic
> 120
>
>> + Level 12 Poison Magic
> 100, OK
>
>> + Level 1 Evocations
>
> This character will face MASSIVE problems later on due
> to these aptitudes.

Hey, he didn't survive to face those problems. First
things first, lemme resolve the problems my chars are
facing in the opening, after that I'll get to solving
mid-game problems and so on.

> Spriggans are cool, but spriggan fire conjurer is
> something unfit, I think.

I didn't plan him as a *fire* conjurer. The idea was to
survive the early game with Poison Magic, get some
offensive spells for poison resisters, pump up
Conjurations and maybe see a chunk of the midgame. Perhaps
I should've turned off the elemental skills.

> Wonder how you could get conjurations to 10 with 160
> un-aptitude, thought.

Um, by casting lots and lots of Conjurations, naturally.
;-)

--
roy axenov

 

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Ilyak wrote:
> roy axenov писал(а):

[...]
> Spriggans are cool, but spriggan fire conjurer is something unfit, I
> think.
> Wonder how you could get conjurations to 10 with 160 un-aptitude,
> thought.

There's no reason it can't be done -- one bad aptitude and a mediocre
one or two isn't the end of the world. There have already been, for
example, Spriggan wins with Short Blades or Unarmed as the highest skill.

Though admittedly, the simplest route in the long run is to build
Evocations up to above the highest spell skill, start acquiring rods,
and win as a Talismancer. Pretty hard for a VM to set up, though. Also,
it's been done SO many times before!

> P.S. Ne ssy protiv vetra!

Vítr nemá jenom jeden smÄ›r.

e.