[Crawl] YACD DECj - which spell?

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So, I'm playing a deep elf conjurer. I worship Vehumet, so no guaranteed
Selective Amnesia. Vehumet just gave me the Book of Annihilations. So
I'm wondering which way to go. Deep elves have an aptitude of 100 in
Earth Magic, and I don't have very many XP invested in Earth Magic yet,
but still Lehudib's Crystal Spear sounds yummy. Much more yummy than,
for instance, Orb of Electrocution. On the other hand, Fire Storm also
sounds sufficiently havoc-inducing, and as you can see below, I have
plenty of skill in Fire. Which way should I go?

More commentary on my spells just below the "spells" section.



Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Milky the Conjurer
// I've started naming my characters after whatever song is on in Winamp
when I create the character. This song had a title with "Milk" somewhere
in it, so I named this guy Milky.

Race : Deep Elf Res.Fire : + . . See Invis. : .
Class : Conjurer Res.Cold : . . . Warding : +
// Warding is nice to have. This is another god who gives you an extra
neck to stick an amulet on.
Worship : Vehumet Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : .
Level : 12 Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : .
Exp : 21737 Res.Elec. : . Gourmand : +
// With this and the ring of sustenance, I have never had any problems
with food, the way I've had with my other fledgling spellcasters.

Next Level : 40599
Exp Needed : 18862 Sust.Abil.: . Rnd.Telep. : .
Spls.Left : 9 Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: .
Gold : 1081 Res.Slow : . Levitation : .
Clarity : . Ctrl.Flight: .
HP : 54
MP : 33
Str : 9 Weapon : orc blowgun
// I suppose this is beginning to get outmoded, but the only staff I've
found is a staff of Death, and the only Necromancy spell I have access
to is Animate Skeleton, so...

Int : 24 Armour : +2 orc leather armour (R-fire)
Dex : 16 (17) Shield :
// recently ill from eating a "clean" (rotted goblin) chunk that turned
out to make me ill anyway.

AC : 8 Helmet :
Evasion : 12 Cloak : +0 elf cloak
Shield : 0 Gloves : +2 pair of gloves (dex)
Boots :
Play time : 03:10:17 Amulet : amulet of the gourmand
Turns : 24059 Ring : cursed ring of Preservation
Ring : ring of sustenance


You are in the Mines.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are full.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - an uncursed orcish dagger
b - an uncursed orcish blowgun (weapon)
h - an uncursed runed dagger of venom
Missiles
d - 25 poisoned needles
Armour
p - an orcish leather armour
r - an orcish leather armour
t - an orcish leather armour
u - a robe
x - a robe
z - an orcish leather armour
B - a +2 orcish leather armour of fire resistance (worn)
F - an orcish leather armour
K - a +0 elven cloak (worn)
L - a glowing robe
S - a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
Magical devices
g - a wand of digging (4)
m - a wand of fire
J - a wand of teleportation (4)
M - a wand of slowing
Comestibles
C - 2 meat rations
Scrolls
n - 2 scrolls of teleportation
q - a scroll of remove curse
s - 2 scrolls of identify
v - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II
w - a scroll of enchant weapon I
H - 3 scrolls of blinking
// haven't been to the stash in quite some time.

Jewellery
f - the cursed ring of Preservation (right hand)
This ring provides protection from the effects of poisons and venom.
It affects your strength (+3).
It lets you levitate.
It lets you blink.
It lets you sense your surroundings.
It has a curse placed upon it.
// Mummy death curse. Also, this ring would have been KING for any of my
MDFi axe-swinging evokers.

k - a ring of sustenance (left hand)
G - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
P - a ring of sustain abilities
T - a ring of teleportation
Potions
e - 3 potions of speed
// Priceless for running away.

i - 2 potions of heal wounds
j - 3 potions of might
o - 2 potions of healing
Books
c - a book of Conjurations
l - a book of Minor Magic
y - a book of Power
D - a book of Wizardry
I - a book of Annihilations
Magical staves
A - a staff of death
Miscellaneous
E - a crystal ball of seeing
// just makes me stupid. I suppose I don't have enough Evocations. Ring
is safer anyway, I think.


You have 2 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 1 Short Blades
+ Level 2 Staves
+ Level 1 Darts
+ Level 4 Dodging
+ Level 5 Stealth

+ Level 12 Spellcasting
+ Level 14 Conjurations
+ Level 1 Enchantments
// just practiced this slightly.

+ Level 4 Translocations
+ Level 11 Fire Magic

// So no Earth magic skill yet, despite heavy use recently of Bolt of
Magma. I suppose the 100 aptitude is making itself known here.

+ Level 3 Evocations


You have 9 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success Level
a - Magic Dart Conjuration Perfect 1
b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Excellent 2
// So up to now this has been my mainstay "kill stuff" spell, though
what with Orc Knights and an Orc Sorcerer with fire resistance, I have
been leaning more and more on Bolt of Magma - and at any rate, Bolt of
Magma doesn't do enough damage to resistant creatures, and Throw Flame
doesn't do enough damage to any creatures except baseline orcs to be
very *good* at the moment.

c - Conjure Flame Fire/Conjuration Excellent 3
// This is most excellent for keeping some enemies at bay while I use
the less-than-super-efficient Throw Flame to take them down.

d - Blink Translocation Great 2
// trained this a bit, and was really glad of that when I was cornered
by a small pack of Yaks. This was before I had Fireball or Bolt of Magma
at any significant chance of success, so Yaks was a major problem. Hard
times.

e - Mephitic Cloud Poison/Air/Conjuration Excellent 3
// I am so glad I found this.

f - Fireball Fire/Conjuration Great 6
// Have been using this lately as "high damage against high evasion",
but it's so expensive for the damage it does...

g - Bolt of Magma Fire/Earth/Conjuration Great 5
// Very nice against easy-to-hit non-resistant critters. If they're
resistant and easy to hit, I make do with this, but would like something
that did a bit more damage for the mana...

h - Detect Creatures Divination Very Good 2
// Using this intermittently, if I find a book of Surveyances, I'll be
using it to actively train Divinations.

i - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Very Good 2

// Handy against centaurs, less useful against cyclops... cyclops crush
deep elves with their thrown rocks. Ouch.


// So, should I learn:
- Stone Arrow, to have a semi-low-level damage spell and train Earth
(for Lehudib's Crystal Spear later)?
- Iron Bolt, to have a mid-level damage spell and train Earth (for
Lehudib's Crystal Spear later)?
- Iskenderun's Mystic Blast, to have a mid-level damage spell and
avoid putting XP into Earth so I can get better at Fire Storm when I
again have levels to learn it?
- Two of the above, because one of them isn't very good damage and the
other has a hard time hitting stuff (Not that I'd know which was which)?




Mutations & Other Weirdness
You are surrounded by a mild repulsion field (ev + 1).
You are weak (Str -1).
You are clumsy (Dex -1).

// Quaff-IDing a potion of Mutation. Not the worst set I've seen, but I
have no potions of Cure Mutation, though I have seen one in a shop. No
use going and buying it yet, though.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Elethiomel wrote:
> So, I'm playing a deep elf conjurer.

I'm so jealous. I have had a long series of sworn oaths to myself
to ascend with this and that and the other thing running for ages now,
and so haven't gotten around to a real DECj game in a long time. And I
*love* DECj games. Who cares if they're unoriginal; they're an absolute
blast. Maybe I should pick that "tutorial" game back up, that would be
a good excuse. (Maybe I should somehow put it on the Wiki?)

> I worship Vehumet, so no guaranteed
> Selective Amnesia. Vehumet just gave me the Book of Annihilations. So
> I'm wondering which way to go. Deep elves have an aptitude of 100 in
> Earth Magic, and I don't have very many XP invested in Earth Magic yet,
> but still Lehudib's Crystal Spear sounds yummy.

100 Earth isn't so bad when you have huge Int and superb Spellcasting
and Conjurations. If you compare 100 to the average of Earth magic
across the races, I think you'll find it's actually above-average
(though I don't know what statistical method would be the most
appropriate, I doubt there's a relevant one where 100 would be
considered "average" for earth. It's like with Shields... 100 is
actually rather good for Shields IIRC.

> Much more yummy than,
> for instance, Orb of Electrocution. On the other hand, Fire Storm also
> sounds sufficiently havoc-inducing, and as you can see below, I have
> plenty of skill in Fire. Which way should I go?

Both. That way you get good power on Bolt of Magma for cheap, and
Bolt of Magma is pretty nice. Not as nice as Bolt of Fire most of the
time, but only a little worse, and much easier to pick up unless you
already have a book of fire or are willing to sacrifice a ?oA and scum
XP into Fire to get it past Conjurations.

> Milky the Conjurer
> // I've started naming my characters after whatever song is on in Winamp
> when I create the character. This song had a title with "Milk" somewhere
> in it, so I named this guy Milky.

I can somehow imagine They Might Be Giants doing a song about a DECj
named Milky (if they had the time to play computer games).

Darnit, now I have the words "whistling, whistling! whistling,
whistling! dark, dark! dark, dark!" running through my head.

> Exp : 21737 Res.Elec. : . Gourmand : +
> // With this and the ring of sustenance, I have never had any problems
> with food, the way I've had with my other fledgling spellcasters.

Well, the INT helps too.

> Str : 9 Weapon : orc blowgun
> // I suppose this is beginning to get outmoded, but the only staff I've
> found is a staff of Death, and the only Necromancy spell I have access
> to is Animate Skeleton, so...

Hmmm... DON'T bother scumming for a Book of Fire yet... you have some
other priorities still.

> Dex : 16 (17) Shield :
> // recently ill from eating a "clean" (rotted goblin) chunk that turned
> out to make me ill anyway.

Odd. I swear the flipping should be consistent. Sure you hadn't slipped
and left your amulet off at that moment?

> Armour
> p - an orcish leather armour
> r - an orcish leather armour
> t - an orcish leather armour
> u - a robe
> x - a robe
> z - an orcish leather armour
> B - a +2 orcish leather armour of fire resistance (worn)
> F - an orcish leather armour
> K - a +0 elven cloak (worn)
> L - a glowing robe
> S - a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)

Hey, that looks like *my* spellcaster mid-Mines inventories!

I suppose I could always just skip the leather armours, since it's all
about the RoR's anyway, but I can never resist the temptation.

> Magical devices
> g - a wand of digging (4)
> m - a wand of fire
> J - a wand of teleportation (4)
> M - a wand of slowing

Hmm... maybe swap the Teleportation for a magicdart-like wand and beef
up your ?oT supply a bit in its place? The Teleportation will be nice
to still have around later on, when ?oT's will be burning up right and
left if you carry them.

> Books
> c - a book of Conjurations
> l - a book of Minor Magic
> y - a book of Power
> D - a book of Wizardry
> I - a book of Annihilations

> Miscellaneous
> E - a crystal ball of seeing
> // just makes me stupid. I suppose I don't have enough Evocations. Ring
> is safer anyway, I think.

Just as importantly it's much, much lighter and doesn't require
swapping in and out (until you find two even better rings).

> You have 2 experience left.
>
> Skills:
> + Level 1 Short Blades
> + Level 2 Staves

I'd turn these off... the minor dribs and drabs of XP they'll be
getting won't bump them up while they *will* be snatched away from your
spell skills. Still, it's just a quibble.

[skills]
> // So no Earth magic skill yet, despite heavy use recently of Bolt of
> Magma. I suppose the 100 aptitude is making itself known here.

And the "half-opposition" between Fire and Earth. It's not just full
opposites that put sand in the XP-investment gears. I have a GnEE in
the opposite situation at this very moment. (Well, he and his world
have been suspended in the Universal Jello for almost a week due to my
having freshly pirated my way to a copy of FFTA and slapped it into a
Gameboy emulator, naughty thief that I am.)

> You have 9 spell levels left.
> You know the following spells:
>
> Your Spells Type Success Level
> a - Magic Dart Conjuration Perfect 1
> b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Excellent 2
> // So up to now this has been my mainstay "kill stuff" spell, though
> what with Orc Knights and an Orc Sorcerer with fire resistance, I have
> been leaning more and more on Bolt of Magma - and at any rate, Bolt of
> Magma doesn't do enough damage to resistant creatures, and Throw Flame
> doesn't do enough damage to any creatures except baseline orcs to be
> very *good* at the moment.

And it's only going to get worse.

Pretty soon BoM is going to start feeling cheaper and cheaper, though,
especially once you get the hang of getting your Channel Energy mojo
on. *Use* that power. Use it a *lot.* (Turn off your Invocations as
soon as it reaches 1 though... the benefit to Channel Energy as
Invocations rises isn't large enough to be worth the investment IMO.)

> e - Mephitic Cloud Poison/Air/Conjuration Excellent 3
> // I am so glad I found this.



> f - Fireball Fire/Conjuration Great 6
> // Have been using this lately as "high damage against high evasion",
> but it's so expensive for the damage it does...

Well, it could be worse; it could be Barthes' Vapid Deconstruction, for
example.

> g - Bolt of Magma Fire/Earth/Conjuration Great 5
> // Very nice against easy-to-hit non-resistant critters. If they're
> resistant and easy to hit, I make do with this, but would like something
> that did a bit more damage for the mana...

Aww, admit it, you're just not bowling for monsters enough.

> i - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Very Good 2
>
> // Handy against centaurs, less useful against cyclops... cyclops crush
> deep elves with their thrown rocks. Ouch.

Either get those Enchantments up or get that Stealth and Dodging up,
otherwise you're in for a world of hurt... ranged attacks are just
going to get worse.

> // So, should I learn:
> - Stone Arrow, to have a semi-low-level damage spell and train Earth
> (for Lehudib's Crystal Spear later)?
> - Iron Bolt, to have a mid-level damage spell and train Earth (for
> Lehudib's Crystal Spear later)?
> - Iskenderun's Mystic Blast, to have a mid-level damage spell and
> avoid putting XP into Earth so I can get better at Fire Storm when I
> again have levels to learn it?
> - Two of the above, because one of them isn't very good damage and the
> other has a hard time hitting stuff (Not that I'd know which was which)?

Since you skipped Stone Arrow, go with the Blast. It'll make the Hive a
snap, vastly reduce the "I hate you I hate you" factor when
encountering wisp hordes in the Swamp, and much more, all for the low
low cost of one more slot than Stone Arrow and maybe slightly lower
efficiency than usual (too lazy to check).

That handles the high-range, high-accuracy, (probably) low-efficiency
end. For the low-range, low-accuracy, high-efficiency end, take the
bolt.

Then cross your fingers that you'll find Selective Amnesia so you can
(most likely) eventually dump both of them for the great-range,
great-accuracy, great-efficiency, costly-as-hell Crystal Spear later
on. Or at least the bolt... maybe keep Ishkabooble after that even
still, or at least replace it with Stone Arrow, so you're not up poop
creek when you're faced with a crowd control task not matching your
other available crowd control tools or when you're desperately low on
HP.

> Mutations & Other Weirdness
> You are surrounded by a mild repulsion field (ev + 1).
> You are weak (Str -1).
> You are clumsy (Dex -1).

Slightly sad, but no real problem.

e.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <43146710@news.broadpark.no>, Elethiomel <kkkk@lllllll.mmmm> wrote:
>So, I'm playing a deep elf conjurer. I worship Vehumet, so no guaranteed
>Selective Amnesia. Vehumet just gave me the Book of Annihilations. So
>I'm wondering which way to go. Deep elves have an aptitude of 100 in
>Earth Magic, and I don't have very many XP invested in Earth Magic yet,
>but still Lehudib's Crystal Spear sounds yummy. Much more yummy than,
>for instance, Orb of Electrocution. On the other hand, Fire Storm also
>sounds sufficiently havoc-inducing, and as you can see below, I have
>plenty of skill in Fire. Which way should I go?

This I can't really help with, since my only "decent" caster was a
Wz-turned-FE that got killed by the only oklob plant I've ever seen.

I suspect that the standard answer might be "both"

[level 12]
>Str : 9 Weapon : orc blowgun
>// I suppose this is beginning to get outmoded, but the only staff I've
>found is a staff of Death, and the only Necromancy spell I have access
>to is Animate Skeleton, so...

Yes and no. Quite a bit of stuff in the Lair, and even in the Vault,
can be poisoned. You probably have better ways of doing damage to
monsters at range, though.

>Jewellery
> f - the cursed ring of Preservation (right hand)
> This ring provides protection from the effects of poisons and venom.
> It affects your strength (+3).
> It lets you levitate.
> It lets you blink.
> It lets you sense your surroundings.
> It has a curse placed upon it.
>// Mummy death curse. Also, this ring would have been KING for any of my
>MDFi axe-swinging evokers.

I don't think I value activatable blink enough. Most of my characters
would be quite happy to find this, though (as you say).

> k - a ring of sustenance (left hand)

I don't have a good sense of how much good sustenance does ... but OTOH
none of your other options jump out at me either.

> G - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
> P - a ring of sustain abilities
> T - a ring of teleportation

> You have 2 experience left.
>
> Skills:
> + Level 1 Short Blades
> + Level 2 Staves
> + Level 1 Darts
> + Level 4 Dodging
> + Level 5 Stealth
>
> + Level 12 Spellcasting
> + Level 14 Conjurations
> + Level 1 Enchantments
>// just practiced this slightly.
>
> + Level 4 Translocations
> + Level 11 Fire Magic
>
>// So no Earth magic skill yet, despite heavy use recently of Bolt of
>Magma. I suppose the 100 aptitude is making itself known here.

Your experience is getting split like four ways for Magma (spellcasting,
conjuration, earth, fire), and Earth is also handicapped because you
already know another elemental skill at a higher level. It'll show up
eventually, but you may find Stone Arrow or something to be a better
trainer for it.

> f - Fireball Fire/Conjuration Great 6
>// Have been using this lately as "high damage against high evasion",
>but it's so expensive for the damage it does...

Doesn't evasion reduce damage from area effects as well? Or is that
only for the player?

-Andrew ()

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> Elethiomel wrote:
>
>>So, I'm playing a deep elf conjurer.
>
>
> I'm so jealous. I have had a long series of sworn oaths to myself
> to ascend with this and that and the other thing running for ages now,
> and so haven't gotten around to a real DECj game in a long time. And I
> *love* DECj games. Who cares if they're unoriginal; they're an absolute
> blast. Maybe I should pick that "tutorial" game back up, that would be
> a good excuse. (Maybe I should somehow put it on the Wiki?)

A Conjurer tutorial on the Wiki would come in handy for new players, I
think.

>>I worship Vehumet, so no guaranteed
>>Selective Amnesia. Vehumet just gave me the Book of Annihilations. So
>>I'm wondering which way to go. Deep elves have an aptitude of 100 in
>>Earth Magic, and I don't have very many XP invested in Earth Magic yet,
>>but still Lehudib's Crystal Spear sounds yummy.
>
> 100 Earth isn't so bad when you have huge Int and superb Spellcasting
> and Conjurations. If you compare 100 to the average of Earth magic
> across the races, I think you'll find it's actually above-average
> (though I don't know what statistical method would be the most
> appropriate, I doubt there's a relevant one where 100 would be
> considered "average" for earth. It's like with Shields... 100 is
> actually rather good for Shields IIRC.

Interesting.

>
>>Much more yummy than,
>>for instance, Orb of Electrocution. On the other hand, Fire Storm also
>>sounds sufficiently havoc-inducing, and as you can see below, I have
>>plenty of skill in Fire. Which way should I go?
>
> Both. That way you get good power on Bolt of Magma for cheap, and
> Bolt of Magma is pretty nice. Not as nice as Bolt of Fire most of the
> time, but only a little worse, and much easier to pick up unless you
> already have a book of fire or are willing to sacrifice a ?oA and scum
> XP into Fire to get it past Conjurations.

Hm. I wonder if the decision to leave Bolt of Fire out of the starting
Conjuration (fire) book was a balancing decision, or just no room when
including the other basic conjurer and fire spells.

>
>>Milky the Conjurer
>>// I've started naming my characters after whatever song is on in Winamp
>>when I create the character. This song had a title with "Milk" somewhere
>>in it, so I named this guy Milky.
>
> I can somehow imagine They Might Be Giants doing a song about a DECj
> named Milky (if they had the time to play computer games).

Haha, I can just hear it now.

>
> Darnit, now I have the words "whistling, whistling! whistling,
> whistling! dark, dark! dark, dark!" running through my head.

*evil grin*

>
>>Exp : 21737 Res.Elec. : . Gourmand : +
>>// With this and the ring of sustenance, I have never had any problems
>>with food, the way I've had with my other fledgling spellcasters.
>
>
> Well, the INT helps too.

I'd think so, but this isn't super INT when compared to the other
wizards and conjurers I've started.

>
>
>>Str : 9 Weapon : orc blowgun
>>// I suppose this is beginning to get outmoded, but the only staff I've
>>found is a staff of Death, and the only Necromancy spell I have access
>>to is Animate Skeleton, so...
>
> Hmmm... DON'T bother scumming for a Book of Fire yet... you have some
> other priorities still.

Yes. A staff of conjurations, if it exists, would be nice. So would a
ring of Fire.

>
>>Dex : 16 (17) Shield :
>>// recently ill from eating a "clean" (rotted goblin) chunk that turned
>>out to make me ill anyway.
>
> Odd. I swear the flipping should be consistent. Sure you hadn't slipped
> and left your amulet off at that moment?

I seem to recall someone saying there was a 1/45 chance of becoming sick
off of a "clean" chunk. And since I have no other amulets, I *never*
leave it off.

>
>>Armour
>> p - an orcish leather armour
>> r - an orcish leather armour
>> t - an orcish leather armour
>> u - a robe
>> x - a robe
>> z - an orcish leather armour
>> B - a +2 orcish leather armour of fire resistance (worn)
>> F - an orcish leather armour
>> K - a +0 elven cloak (worn)
>> L - a glowing robe
>> S - a +2 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
>
> Hey, that looks like *my* spellcaster mid-Mines inventories!
>
> I suppose I could always just skip the leather armours, since it's all
> about the RoR's anyway, but I can never resist the temptation.

It is all about the RoRs? I did not know that.

>>Magical devices
>> g - a wand of digging (4)
>> m - a wand of fire
>> J - a wand of teleportation (4)
>> M - a wand of slowing
>
> Hmm... maybe swap the Teleportation for a magicdart-like wand and beef
> up your ?oT supply a bit in its place? The Teleportation will be nice
> to still have around later on, when ?oT's will be burning up right and
> left if you carry them.

They's all I gots. Oh, and an empty /oFrost.

>>Books
>> c - a book of Conjurations
>> l - a book of Minor Magic
>> y - a book of Power
>> D - a book of Wizardry
>> I - a book of Annihilations
>
>>Miscellaneous
>> E - a crystal ball of seeing
>>// just makes me stupid. I suppose I don't have enough Evocations. Ring
>>is safer anyway, I think.
>
> Just as importantly it's much, much lighter and doesn't require
> swapping in and out (until you find two even better rings).

Good point!

>
>> You have 2 experience left.
>>
>> Skills:
>> + Level 1 Short Blades
>> + Level 2 Staves
>
>
> I'd turn these off... the minor dribs and drabs of XP they'll be
> getting won't bump them up while they *will* be snatched away from your
> spell skills. Still, it's just a quibble.

Okay, thanks.

>
> [skills]
>
>>// So no Earth magic skill yet, despite heavy use recently of Bolt of
>>Magma. I suppose the 100 aptitude is making itself known here.
>
>
> And the "half-opposition" between Fire and Earth. It's not just full
> opposites that put sand in the XP-investment gears. I have a GnEE in
> the opposite situation at this very moment. (Well, he and his world
> have been suspended in the Universal Jello for almost a week due to my
> having freshly pirated my way to a copy of FFTA and slapped it into a
> Gameboy emulator, naughty thief that I am.)

Ah, I did not know that! Better start up with them Iron Bolts then.

Also, what's FFTA?


>>You have 9 spell levels left.
>>You know the following spells:
>>
>> Your Spells Type Success Level
>> a - Magic Dart Conjuration Perfect 1
>> b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Excellent 2
>>// So up to now this has been my mainstay "kill stuff" spell, though
>>what with Orc Knights and an Orc Sorcerer with fire resistance, I have
>>been leaning more and more on Bolt of Magma - and at any rate, Bolt of
>>Magma doesn't do enough damage to resistant creatures, and Throw Flame
>>doesn't do enough damage to any creatures except baseline orcs to be
>>very *good* at the moment.
>
>
> And it's only going to get worse.

So I figured.

> Pretty soon BoM is going to start feeling cheaper and cheaper, though,
> especially once you get the hang of getting your Channel Energy mojo
> on. *Use* that power. Use it a *lot.* (Turn off your Invocations as
> soon as it reaches 1 though... the benefit to Channel Energy as
> Invocations rises isn't large enough to be worth the investment IMO.)

Yeah, I just now noticed that it didn't have piety cost. Turning off
invocations when it reaches 1, check.

>> f - Fireball Fire/Conjuration Great 6
>>// Have been using this lately as "high damage against high evasion",
>>but it's so expensive for the damage it does...
>
> Well, it could be worse; it could be Barthes' Vapid Deconstruction, for
> example.

I've never even had a spellbook with that in it (on a character that
would have any reasonable chance to cast it, at any rate).


>> g - Bolt of Magma Fire/Earth/Conjuration Great 5
>>// Very nice against easy-to-hit non-resistant critters. If they're
>>resistant and easy to hit, I make do with this, but would like something
>>that did a bit more damage for the mana...
>
> Aww, admit it, you're just not bowling for monsters enough.

This is true. There was one situation where it would have come in *real*
handy, but then I didn't have it memorized, so I blocked off the
entrance to the corridor, and one space out, with Conjure Flame and used
Fireball instead. Effective enough.

>
>> i - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Very Good 2
>>
>>// Handy against centaurs, less useful against cyclops... cyclops crush
>>deep elves with their thrown rocks. Ouch.
>
>
> Either get those Enchantments up or get that Stealth and Dodging up,
> otherwise you're in for a world of hurt... ranged attacks are just
> going to get worse.

Hm. Okay. I just don't feel comfy having things beat on me. But aye,
enchantments up.

>
>>// So, should I learn:
>> - Stone Arrow, to have a semi-low-level damage spell and train Earth
>>(for Lehudib's Crystal Spear later)?
>> - Iron Bolt, to have a mid-level damage spell and train Earth (for
>>Lehudib's Crystal Spear later)?
>> - Iskenderun's Mystic Blast, to have a mid-level damage spell and
>>avoid putting XP into Earth so I can get better at Fire Storm when I
>>again have levels to learn it?
>> - Two of the above, because one of them isn't very good damage and the
>>other has a hard time hitting stuff (Not that I'd know which was which)?
>
> Since you skipped Stone Arrow, go with the Blast. It'll make the Hive a
> snap, vastly reduce the "I hate you I hate you" factor when
> encountering wisp hordes in the Swamp, and much more, all for the low
> low cost of one more slot than Stone Arrow and maybe slightly lower
> efficiency than usual (too lazy to check).
>
> That handles the high-range, high-accuracy, (probably) low-efficiency
> end. For the low-range, low-accuracy, high-efficiency end, take the
> bolt.

All righty then. Thanks!

> Then cross your fingers that you'll find Selective Amnesia so you can
> (most likely) eventually dump both of them for the great-range,
> great-accuracy, great-efficiency, costly-as-hell Crystal Spear later
> on. Or at least the bolt... maybe keep Ishkabooble after that even
> still, or at least replace it with Stone Arrow, so you're not up poop
> creek when you're faced with a crowd control task not matching your
> other available crowd control tools or when you're desperately low on
> HP.

*nod* thanks again!

>
>> Mutations & Other Weirdness
>>You are surrounded by a mild repulsion field (ev + 1).
>>You are weak (Str -1).
>>You are clumsy (Dex -1).
>
>
> Slightly sad, but no real problem.

Hey, it's +1EV, which sort of compensates for -1 Dex. And I still have
the +3 str ring.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> Elethiomel wrote:
>
>> I worship Vehumet, so no guaranteed Selective Amnesia. Vehumet just
>> gave me the Book of Annihilations. So I'm wondering which way to
>> go. Deep elves have an aptitude of 100 in Earth Magic, and I don't
>> have very many XP invested in Earth Magic yet, but still Lehudib's
>> Crystal Spear sounds yummy.
>
> 100 Earth isn't so bad when you have huge Int and superb Spellcasting
> and Conjurations. If you compare 100 to the average of Earth magic
> across the races, I think you'll find it's actually above-average
> (though I don't know what statistical method would be the most
> appropriate, I doubt there's a relevant one where 100 would be
> considered "average" for earth. It's like with Shields... 100 is
> actually rather good for Shields IIRC.

Don't overtax aptitudes, they are secondary. Look at my recent winner
with 150(!) aptitude for earth magic which was just at level 10 in the
end. Nevertheless, crystal spear was absolutely devastating!
Also keep in mind that many spells are multi-school spells (often mixed
with conjuration eg). It's the sum of all school levels what counts.
--
Rubinstein
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quidquid latine dictum, altum videtur.
Ceterum censeo Microsoftem delendam esse.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> Elethiomel wrote:
>>// So, should I learn:
>> - Stone Arrow, to have a semi-low-level damage spell and train Earth
>>(for Lehudib's Crystal Spear later)?
>> - Iron Bolt, to have a mid-level damage spell and train Earth (for
>>Lehudib's Crystal Spear later)?
>> - Iskenderun's Mystic Blast, to have a mid-level damage spell and
>>avoid putting XP into Earth so I can get better at Fire Storm when I
>>again have levels to learn it?
>> - Two of the above, because one of them isn't very good damage and the
>>other has a hard time hitting stuff (Not that I'd know which was which)?
>
>
> Since you skipped Stone Arrow, go with the Blast. It'll make the Hive a
> snap, vastly reduce the "I hate you I hate you" factor when
> encountering wisp hordes in the Swamp, and much more, all for the low
> low cost of one more slot than Stone Arrow and maybe slightly lower
> efficiency than usual (too lazy to check).

It's also a good pretty-much-guaranteed one-shot-kill for any "regular"
monsters (orcs, orc warriors, large kobolds, etc.) you happen to meet
along the way.

>
> That handles the high-range, high-accuracy, (probably) low-efficiency
> end. For the low-range, low-accuracy, high-efficiency end, take the
> bolt.

I memorised the bolt first. Then, maybe 14 turns later, I dug a tunnel
into an unconnected bit of the Orcish Mines. Three steps in -- Iron
troll enters FOV. Retreating -- Orc Warlord had spawned between me and
the stairs. Iron Bolt took down the Orc Warlord before the Iron Troll
could close.

VERY fortunate timing.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Elethiomel wrote:
> Erik Piper wrote:
> > Elethiomel wrote:

[spell choices]
> >>Much more yummy than,
> >>for instance, Orb of Electrocution. On the other hand, Fire Storm also
> >>sounds sufficiently havoc-inducing, and as you can see below, I have
> >>plenty of skill in Fire. Which way should I go?
> >
> > Both. That way you get good power on Bolt of Magma for cheap, and
> > Bolt of Magma is pretty nice. Not as nice as Bolt of Fire most of the
> > time, but only a little worse, and much easier to pick up unless you
> > already have a book of fire or are willing to sacrifice a ?oA and scum
> > XP into Fire to get it past Conjurations.
>
> Hm. I wonder if the decision to leave Bolt of Fire out of the starting
> Conjuration (fire) book was a balancing decision, or just no room when
> including the other basic conjurer and fire spells.

Probably balancing. **Something** has gotta make up for the fairly
awful (if short) period before a fire elementalist reaches level 2.

> Yes. A staff of conjurations, if it exists, would be nice. So would a
> ring of Fire.

I was thinking of the \oC, in the sense of your first acquirement
probably needing to go to staves. Enhancer staves really transform a
player's game for the better.

> >>Dex : 16 (17) Shield :
> >>// recently ill from eating a "clean" (rotted goblin) chunk that turned
> >>out to make me ill anyway.
> >
> > Odd. I swear the flipping should be consistent. Sure you hadn't slipped
> > and left your amulet off at that moment?
>
> I seem to recall someone saying there was a 1/45 chance of becoming sick
> off of a "clean" chunk. And since I have no other amulets, I *never*
> leave it off.

The 1/45 bit is, as far as I know, the case for one of the very
sickness-resistant races, whereas the AotG, again as far as I know,
actually makes you "think" that rotted meat is clean rather than making
you resistant to it. This is all so weeeeeeeeeeird.

[bunch of robes and leather armours from the Mines]

> > Hey, that looks like *my* spellcaster mid-Mines inventories!
> >
> > I suppose I could always just skip the leather armours, since it's all
> > about the RoR's anyway, but I can never resist the temptation.
>
> It is all about the RoRs? I did not know that.

It's pretty hard IMO to beat two resistances (Robe of Resistance) with
anything that grants just one (like any non-artifact leather... and the
Mines don't generate artifacts).

> > [skills]
> >
> >>// So no Earth magic skill yet, despite heavy use recently of Bolt of
> >>Magma. I suppose the 100 aptitude is making itself known here.
> >
> >
> > And the "half-opposition" between Fire and Earth. It's not just full
> > opposites that put sand in the XP-investment gears. I have a GnEE in
> > the opposite situation at this very moment. (Well, he and his world
> > have been suspended in the Universal Jello for almost a week due to my
> > having freshly pirated my way to a copy of FFTA and slapped it into a
> > Gameboy emulator, naughty thief that I am.)
>
> Ah, I did not know that! Better start up with them Iron Bolts then.
>
> Also, what's FFTA?

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, a "Strategy RPG" (a whole little genre
out there that exists) for the Game Boy Advance. I'm playing it in an
emulator. It's... interesting. Everything tends to feel a little easy
once you get used to roguelikes, but even roguelike-unaware heathens
have called it easy. And it's slow, and has a crummy interface. But the
good game hiding under all the crud is so attractive that I can't stop
playing the bad one and pretending I'm playing the good one.

Kinda wish I had the savvy to program a game from scratch. PC's need
more (native) SRPG's, and one with permadeath could be interesting.

If the genre piques your interest, go out -- as a person living in a
credit-card, used-game-shop and overall you-lucky-Westerners country --
and pick up FFTA's big brother FFT (which is allegedly much better)
somewhere legally to work off some karma for me. You'll need a PSX
or an emulator and the savvy to get it working in one, though.

> > ["channel energy rocks"]

> Yeah, I just now noticed that it didn't have piety cost. Turning off
> invocations when it reaches 1, check.

Does have a food cost, though... but with the AotG it shouldn't be a
problem unless you've just arrived from a long stint of Travel.

> >> f - Fireball Fire/Conjuration Great 6
> >>// Have been using this lately as "high damage against high evasion",
> >>but it's so expensive for the damage it does...
> >
> > Well, it could be worse; it could be Barthes' Vapid Deconstruction, for
> > example.
>
> I've never even had a spellbook with that in it (on a character that
> would have any reasonable chance to cast it, at any rate).

It's *kind* of fun. You have to do a lot of weird "bowling" to get much
efficiency out of it, but that itself is kind of what makes it fun.

e.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, a "Strategy RPG" (a whole little genre
> out there that exists) for the Game Boy Advance. I'm playing it in an
> emulator.

I played it too, the same way. It feels like it lacks substance and
content. It's like playing a game that is an outline roughdraft of a
"real" game. That doesn't stop it from being quite fun, though.

> It's... interesting. Everything tends to feel a little easy
> once you get used to roguelikes, but even roguelike-unaware heathens
> have called it easy. And it's slow, and has a crummy interface.

If you are using VBA, I think spacebar speeds up the game by great
proportions. *wink*

> But the
> good game hiding under all the crud is so attractive that I can't stop
> playing the bad one and pretending I'm playing the good one.
> Kinda wish I had the savvy to program a game from scratch. PC's need
> more (native) SRPG's, and one with permadeath could be interesting.

Have you ever played Tactics Ogre? It is a very similar game, and
extremely fun, with perma-death. You've got a squad of ten people, and
you tend to get attached to these ten people, so a death among them is
tragic. Plus, the story is really great, not to mention the game play.
The game is somewhat dynamic in that some choices you make send you on
"routes" that affect the progression of the story and the special,
unique characters you get.

Overall it is a very fun game.

> If the genre piques your interest, go out -- as a person living in a
> credit-card, used-game-shop and overall you-lucky-Westerners country --
> and pick up FFTA's big brother FFT (which is allegedly much better)
> somewhere legally to work off some karma for me. You'll need a PSX
> or an emulator and the savvy to get it working in one, though.

I played it on an emulator. Getting a playstation emulator to work
requires a lot of blood, sweat, and tears (well, a guess-and-check
method to setting up the parameters in which the emulator runs to make
the sound and the visuals and the speed as close to the original as
possible.) As far as FFT as a game though, I've heard the story
described as Shakespeare-esque in quality, and I highly disagree. It's
banal, really, lacking much of the true shock value of some other
games. But, the gameplay is relatively fun, although I wasn't a fan of
it. For some reason, I enjoyed Tactics Ogre more.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

OK, so my Deep Elf Conjurer now has these (relevant) skills:

g + Spellcasting Skill 16 (5)
h - Conjurations Skill 18 (2)
i - Enchantments Skill 5 (7)
j - Translocations Skill 4 (1)
k - Divinations Skill 2 (9)
l - Fire Magic Skill 12 (3)
m - Air Magic Skill 1 (4)
n - Earth Magic Skill 7 (1)
o - Poison Magic Skill 1 (8)

(Everything is turned off because I haven't found any books with detect
traps in them yet, and have been training Traps & Doors from the XP I
get from wiping out large groups of Nagas in Snake Pit:5 with Bolt of
Iron, Lehudib's Crystal Spear and Iskenderun's Mystic Blast)

If I *somehow* pushed Spellcasting above my other skills and chose
"book" on my next ?oA (which I've just aquired), would this increase the
chances of said spellbook containing Selective Amnesia? I have plenty of
books of Wizardry and Power.