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Are we too harsh on convicts?

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  • Politics
Last response: in News & Leisure
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July 24, 2011 12:45:42 AM

After seeing that, well... uhh... huh. I'm not sure exactly what to think. It's obviously working a whole lot better than what this political hellhole called America has right now. Our prisons are like a training ground for criminals, not a rehabilitation center - they're making the problems worse, not better.

On one hand, some people like to think that our punishments should be even worse than they already are, but on the other, logic is showing that that's the absolute wrong thing to do. And I'm gonna side with logic on this one. It's it's a continuum - you've got a living hell on the left end, and (better than?) normal life on the right. No matter how you put it, America is moving away from the optimum point on that continuum, not towards it.
July 24, 2011 6:47:34 AM

well the norwegian prison sure looks like the right thing to do, the US Prisons are just storage units which also serves as breeding ground for hardening criminals, not softening them.
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July 24, 2011 6:56:59 AM

In the old days, they were seperated, and had no chance of that.
Crime was less, as youd have to be desperate or deranged to be a criminal then, even with a low policing presence
July 24, 2011 7:00:37 AM

Sorry but I'm going to comment without watching the vide. The convicts in California are living the good life.. they get three meal a day and more.. that's better than most of us [not necessary you guys] are doing
July 24, 2011 7:03:41 AM

Watch the vid, its like camp on the ocean, but you have to be there, most the time
July 24, 2011 7:56:20 AM

i have a feeling that prison resembles much of how i live everyday.
except having to wake up at a certain time.

they laugh in the face of the public.. and i adore them for that.
you are forced to wake up and go to work.. you come home to a house with nothing to do.. and then sleep in a bedroom that is small.

the only difference in america is..
people can come home and lie to themselves as they watch television.
nothing of enterainment really on the television.. but people continue to pay the monthly bill and search the channels with hope.

i suppose those norwegian people got it good.
they can buy a car calander because they love cars.
and if the cars are not any fun to look at.. not a big deal because the calander doesnt cost $40 per month.


if it wasnt for that calander.. i see myself in almost the same exact 'prison'
except those guys houses where bigger and much nicer.

i think i could make a list of the many resemblences if i had the motivation.
it would all deal with the many things i dont have.
and more importantly.. all of the things i do have and how they are not providing much entertainment.
(in fact most of them are actually inflicting constant abuse.. needing upgrades and complete changes)
July 24, 2011 2:51:12 PM

It's not just a question of harshness (yes we are generally too harsh on convicts who can't afford a lawyer and too lenient on those that can). It's a question of is our "Correctional" system correcting a criminals behavior or is it making it worse? If you ask that question it's obvious that we mostly fail while countries like Norway have better success.

Yes it looks nice, but prison is prison and while those guys may not be so desperate to escape, I think most of them know they are not truly free while they are there. Even so it looks like they get rehabilitated more often than our criminals do. When you lock a guy up for a couple of years, treat him like an animal, and degrade the social skills he needs to interact with the outside world don't you think he's more likely to cause problems when he's released?
July 24, 2011 3:11:58 PM

I remember driving through CaliforniCA years ago, and saw 2 signs
One, the old one said Penitentiary ahead
The new one said
Correctional facility ahead

They changed the sign, not the building, tho cable and innernets may have been added
July 24, 2011 3:32:22 PM

Yeah, bring back them good ol' days when Joe Friday used to round up all the LA crooks & get 100% conviction rate :p 
July 24, 2011 7:34:14 PM

I guess since we've moved away from the good ol' days, we've stopped right in the middle between having a vacation prison, and having solitary confinement. We're giving them enough freedom to get around and do what they want, but are also making it miserable enough for them to just breed more criminal activity. We need to pick a side, not dawdle around trying to please the media.
July 25, 2011 8:54:07 AM

megamanx00 said:
When you lock a guy up for a couple of years and degrade the social skills he needs to interact with the outside world don't you think he's more likely to cause problems when he's released?


this is mostly what our system does.
they deprive the person as much as possible, and when they do come into social contact with somebody.. they are completely verbally abused, emotionally tortured, and mentally neglected.

what does that say about the people who treat the inmates this way?
obviously if they are capable of and doing the mistreatment.. that doesnt stand too high when they go out in public and those same 'qualities' start to show themselves onto other people.

i wouldnt be willing to say anything to get the response my boss wants.
they couldnt pay me enough to stand around and spit in someones face, as if arguing to a child.
i would probably be the silent and aggressive type that is always nice or quick to sit a person down.
but
i cannot be had to do those actions under somebody else's order or control.

the whole 'no talking to the prisoners AT ALL.. except answering questions that are necessary'
well..
that doesnt really let any cameras or microphone learn how upset and angry the person really is.
they put undercover cops inside the jail who basically live there and do psychology work all day.
if anything is of risk.. then a statement is made when the person is released.

that isnt rehab at all.
and if you are stuck there for a year or more.. i dont know if they let you go to school, but they should.
instead.. you get really STUPID television to watch.. play ping pong.. play basketball.. play cards.. chess or checkers.. read a book.
the rest is eating.. sleeping.. and trying to avoid the idiot psychologists with their decisive action (even if those actions are orders from the boss.. those people decide themselves to do it)

better not be any unfair treatment going on until the judgement has been clarified underground in the video surveillance rooms.
because that is where the evidence is, and you cant make a judgement without evidence from both sides of the story.
cops piss people off and make other people angry on purpose.
verbal and physical abuse is supposed to cause a conflict.
nobody needs marshall status to grab a cop by the arm and tell them to stop.
but
nobody should have all of the verbal and physical abuse 'keywords/definitions' in their memory to battle the abuse they are facing.

usually those cops rack up enough emotional damage money.. when you go to court, they make YOU pay the emotional damage money that you should be entitled to.


stupid system that brings in money or gives a person a chance to show off their self-taught lawyer skills.
that junk brings me to shivers and suicidal thoughts.
one simply cannot wish somebody the best when they are portraying themselves in a way that doesnt deserve it.
July 25, 2011 9:21:03 AM

someguynamedmatt said:
I guess since we've moved away from the good ol' days, we've stopped right in the middle between having a vacation prison, and having solitary confinement. We're giving them enough freedom to get around and do what they want, but are also making it miserable enough for them to just breed more criminal activity. We need to pick a side, not dawdle around trying to please the media.


it is pretty simple really.
if you get into trouble with the local police and are found guilty.. they want your MONEY.
when the situation was really bad, and you got yourself into a lot of trouble.. then they will keep you in the jail so you miss out on work.

if you miss out on work..
you cant pay your rent
cant pay your electrical bill
your telephone bill
your television/internet bill

if you cant pay bond.. your first call would be your landlord so they dont throw all your stuff away.

really..
nobody needs to be in jail for more than a few months.
staying locked up is only going to make the angry person MORE angry.
that means you need to force them to take medicine.. or hypnotize them so they dont do it again.
because some people simply do not care if they live in jail.
and you know i would say get rid of them or get the hypnosis in there 'so it sticks'.

if you get into trouble.. they should quickly be taking the money out of your paycheck before you ever get a chance to spend it.
because the local courthouse is a triumph of failure that clogs up much time and space.
those people could be reviewing claims that the money to be taken out each month is way too high and would cause something serious like homelessness or not enough food to eat for the month.

but no KNOW..
they would rather keep you inside so they can examine your current personality to find out if you are going to be a risk again in the near future.
because using x-ray and lsd to capture the persons electrical energy is much cheaper than simply snuffing the guy with powder or liquid and watching their response run its course.

i have a history with my local government.. so my personality can generally be summed up and averaged.
but
it isnt a requirement to snuff the person and watch their responses run their course.

the lonely dont give a damn if they are locked up in solitary.
the angry dont give a damn if they are locked up in safety out of further harms way.
otherwise the angry is going to go on their natural instinct and realize the mistreatment that has already happened to other people.. and lash out at the local staff.

the psychology of our nation is all wrong.. especially if the recession continues.
i do realize people NEEDED and obtained their chance to play around and have fun back in the 1990's
and the recession has given them some time to think about the choices they made during the 'party' of the 1990's.
when things let up again.. hopefully they wont make those same mistakes, and they will teach their children not to make those same mistakes.

when you touch something hot.. it is better to quickly let go and grab it again .. do it and repeat if necessary.
because grabbing onto it and holding on the entire time is going to make the burn much worse.
but
didnt black and white people already get their chance to be partying amongst eachother in the 1960's and 1970's ?
what about in the 1980's when black people got REALLY high respect from businesses and corporations, and general industries as a whole?
they went to the 1990's and had a huge 'block party' where everybody was playing with toys and being social.
except.. i think in the 1990's .. it gave a chance for all colors and all nationalities to come together.
anything from chinese/japense (etc) to mexican or any other 'color' that might have been viewed differently.

some of it has been for prejudice counter-measures.
but
the other portion has been for responsibility.

not much else to say about it other than the fact, the government has 'regulated' us by molding the economy into whatever shape it wants.

tough times allow for different 'color' of people to get together and realize they are one of the same.. and both of them are in the same situation.
but instead of waiting for that to happen..
we used hollywood to show any 'color' can be rich and famous and intelligent.
so
we should be proud to all be getting along without such stupid confusion.
and
with that said.. we shouldnt have any need to get sad or depressed for a very very long time.

when things get happy again..
we will have to worry about all of the cry-babies coming to the surface because they are jealous or 'emotionally out of breath'
the poor stealing from the rich, as well as the angry abusing the innocent.. they both fall into the category of 'emotionally out of breath'
July 25, 2011 1:52:57 PM

someguynamedmatt said:
After seeing that, well... uhh... huh. I'm not sure exactly what to think. It's obviously working a whole lot better than what this political hellhole called America has right now. Our prisons are like a training ground for criminals, not a rehabilitation center - they're making the problems worse, not better.


They are privately owned training centers. Most of the Cali jails get money from the government to house criminals. Therefore its in their best interests to keep them fully occupied. Thats why you get stupid drug laws to keep people in prison. Not only that but prisons destroy families which just leaves more kids without fathers that will go out and commit crimes and then it begins again.
July 25, 2011 2:37:53 PM

Back in the good ol' days the police just shot you. There was no running from five-o back in the day, because they would just shout "stop, BLAM! BLAM! or i'll shoot!"
July 25, 2011 3:57:27 PM

Oldmangamer_73 said:
Back in the good ol' days the police just shot you. There was no running from five-o back in the day, because they would just shout "stop, BLAM! BLAM! or i'll shoot!"


When the wild west Oldman?

And how come now one comments on the fact that prisons are privately owned. I want to hear from some conservative entrepreneurs about what they think of privatizing our nations safety.
July 25, 2011 9:56:20 PM

wanamingo said:
When the wild west Oldman?

And how come now one comments on the fact that prisons are privately owned. I want to hear from some conservative entrepreneurs about what they think of privatizing our nations safety.



Hardly the wild west mingo. Try the 1950's. And, before anyone brings it up. Yes, they shot white people too.

I think private owned prisons are fine if that's what the people of the state want. You have to make a differentiation between state pens and federal pens though.

Our nation's safety is NOT privatized. Last I checked we have several divisions of Marines eating their own guts and chomping at the bit to keep us safe. :)  Semper Fi!
July 25, 2011 10:53:15 PM

What gets me is, not only all the people that work in those private pens get paid well, but the cost of the building gets paid off as well, and then theres the return on the investment, boy, our government sure is taking care of business heheh

For those that dont get it, the states pay the private orgs to do this, the same costs the states have for running one, and probably cheaper, as Im sure it was a bid to do this, and people are making money here, while the state?
July 26, 2011 5:48:27 AM

Godiwa said:
well the norwegian prison sure looks like the right thing to do, the US Prisons are just storage units which also serves as breeding ground for hardening criminals, not softening them.



Prison should be a place which frightens people. which discourages people to commit a crime on the other hand after watching this video and the living conditions of the murderer i am thinking that i should go to norway kill a man and live in this great prison where the quality of life shown in this video encourages to commit a crime and if it doesnot enourages it atleast removes the fear of punishment which is fatal for any society
July 26, 2011 9:59:41 AM

Quote:
Are we too harsh on convicts?


No...




Sic semper nefarius, Mortem...


we are too lenient...
July 26, 2011 12:13:47 PM

mrhercules said:
Prison should be a place which frightens people. which discourages people to commit a crime on the other hand after watching this video and the living conditions of the murderer i am thinking that i should go to norway kill a man and live in this great prison where the quality of life shown in this video encourages to commit a crime and if it doesnot enourages it atleast removes the fear of punishment which is fatal for any society


no.

you dont teach people something because of fear.
and you cannot PUNISH the person because of one thing they did.
people dont jump out and do something for no reason.. there is always something that provokes it to happen.
ALWAYS.

if the reason is because of other people or their environment.. then it would be a chemical imbalance within that persons body.
and if they get into trouble enough, they will be tested and found out.

chemical imbalances are pretty easy for the vast majority.
a person can simply look at you and know what your POTENTIAL chemical imbalances are.
and
those imbalances can be found out in less than 10 minutes of observation usually.
the longer it takes.. the more steered you are towards being a criminal genius.



when you go to jail.. you are given the opportunity to tell your side of the story to an undercover cop.
that is how you can talk about the events leading up to what happened that got you arrested.
and that is not always the case when you bond out quickly.

losing money is more terrifying than any of the abuse those people in the jail do to you.
most people think of homelessness like a fantasy or fairy-tale.

i have gone YEARS without extra money.. and i cant say i can hold my head up while doing it.
all of my potential and motivation for the future is lost, as well as 'gone' by being pushed away, rejected, and neglected.

if you already have toys to play with.. then you will probably be selling those toys to get financially stable again.
July 26, 2011 12:30:45 PM

Quote:
chemical imbalances are pretty easy for the vast majority.


obviously; you fit in that majority?
July 26, 2011 12:40:05 PM

Umm ... I could always do with a bit more lithium I guess mrface?

anywaypassable ... you could join me in a mint tea with some herbs ?
:) 
July 26, 2011 1:52:24 PM

and some sodium phenobarbitol and maybe some potassium chloride...

:evil: 
July 26, 2011 4:37:16 PM

Reynod said:
Umm ... I could always do with a bit more lithium I guess mrface?

anywaypassable ... you could join me in a mint tea with some herbs ?
:) 


i dont know if my equilibrium would come to join for some mint tea.
i suppose i should be massaging my sensuality to keep myself.
but
you would think one's past would allow that to happen for oneself.


i suppose if we come together.. i'll need good reason to grow back apart :bounce: 
July 27, 2011 4:26:51 AM

lolwhut?
July 27, 2011 2:46:49 PM

Luckily I understood what he meant there ... the reference was a purely metaphysical one ... well I hope it fracken was ...

/washes hands in holy water and gargles soap.

mrface ... type something manly about trucks and alabama football or gator wrestlying ... I'm feelin a bit squeemish ...
July 28, 2011 4:15:46 AM

sweat. mustache. pigskin. blood. guts.



better?
July 28, 2011 7:20:33 AM

yep.

/spits out a perfectly good tooth after headbutting a wall ...

July 28, 2011 8:12:35 AM

no problem. :) 
July 28, 2011 8:55:10 AM

how bout them cowboys
July 28, 2011 9:00:50 AM

That word is no longer associate with purely manly activities and I only use it when referring to unqualified plumbers ...
July 28, 2011 9:58:14 AM

to correct that statement, if you wanted to be more manly you would say Bullboys, as the cow is the female of the bovine species...
July 28, 2011 3:26:17 PM

Wow this is pretty tempting to go live in norway just in case someone piss me off, then to go live in that prison Being paid to work my tan... wow!! ^^
September 12, 2011 4:29:55 PM

This topic has been closed by Reynod
!