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<unlurk>
I've been interested in roguelikes for a while now, but I've been just
too lazy. Maybe I'll do a 7 day roguelike after exams. is it too much
to tackle, for having just learned c++? anyway, onto the real post!

I've noticed in alot of roguelikes that there is one set scale for in a
dungeon. (wilderness in TOME and ADOM aside) The problem here is that
everything from a colossal dragon to a puny rat are the same size,
tactically. What if a cyclops took up 4 squares, and couldn't travel in
hallways? or what if the pc could be a Hill giant and need to 'enlarge'
corridors before they become useful? If that were the case, you could
scale down, as well. polymorph a (normal) spider and the entire map
quadruples in size: that goblin now covers a square for each foot. What
was once a "wall with a crack in it" now becomes a corridor leading
through the wall to a treasure chamber(or something) it would allow you
to crawl in the wall spaces, navigating ventialtion ducts, spying, and
skittling under doors.

Which brings me to my other thought: how effective would it be to
create a roguelike that has both technological and mythical aspects?
Possibly coming from or being prevalent in different places. I plan to
make more than a 7drl later, and think that it would be good to have
multiple entrances to a caveset, making a 12 gauge more common in some
areas, a wand of fireballs in others. robots and golems, and even a
tribe of automatic lawnmowers whose AI got just a little too advanced.
This last paragraph is much less well thought out, so please no flames.

Thoughts welcome, even if you think my ideas are bad.
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia 18 Apr 2005 10:04:40 -0700,
NIm napisal(a):

><unlurk>
> I've been interested in roguelikes for a while now, but I've been just
> too lazy. Maybe I'll do a 7 day roguelike after exams. is it too much
> to tackle, for having just learned c++? anyway, onto the real post!

I think you should make at least a few non-public attempts. Failing a 7drl
might be pretty discouraging.

> I've noticed in alot of roguelikes that there is one set scale for in a
> dungeon. (wilderness in TOME and ADOM aside) The problem here is that
> everything from a colossal dragon to a puny rat are the same size,
> tactically. What if a cyclops took up 4 squares, and couldn't travel in
> hallways? or what if the pc could be a Hill giant and need to 'enlarge'
> corridors before they become useful? If that were the case, you could
> scale down, as well. polymorph a (normal) spider and the entire map
> quadruples in size: that goblin now covers a square for each foot. What
> was once a "wall with a crack in it" now becomes a corridor leading
> through the wall to a treasure chamber(or something) it would allow you
> to crawl in the wall spaces, navigating ventialtion ducts, spying, and
> skittling under doors.

Some game (like the one announce not so far ago, SimpleGame) already use
this approach. The Exile games used it -- there are lots of problems with
it, however.

I think roguelike have too large granularity for it -- especially for
smaller-than-tile monsters.

The game I'm writing technically allows any number of creatures to occupy
the same square (they are not kept on the map), so you could have a mouse,
a goblin and a fly on the same square -- there are however presentation
problems (there are also presentation problems with large creatures).

I think you could get pretty similar gameplay effect much easier, by just
declaring that this certain monster is too large to enter those kinds of
floor, etc.

The idea with polimorfing into something small -- have you played Zelda:
The Minish Cap?

> Which brings me to my other thought: how effective would it be to
> create a roguelike that has both technological and mythical aspects?
> Possibly coming from or being prevalent in different places. I plan to
> make more than a 7drl later, and think that it would be good to have
> multiple entrances to a caveset, making a 12 gauge more common in some
> areas, a wand of fireballs in others. robots and golems, and even a
> tribe of automatic lawnmowers whose AI got just a little too advanced.
> This last paragraph is much less well thought out, so please no flames.

Well, it's really up to you. There are some `hybrid' words out there, both
in literature and in games. The interest ins't very large, but I think
it's steady. Everything depends on how good you make it -- hard to say
whether it'll be good just hearing such a general description.

> Thoughts welcome, even if you think my ideas are bad.
:)

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> Well, it's really up to you. There are some `hybrid' words out there, both
> in literature and in games.

Yes, including only the best SNES FPS evah -- Chrono Trigger.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:

> Well, it's really up to you. There are some `hybrid' words out there, both
> in literature and in games.

I've often wondered why ZAngband hasn't gone that route. Zelazny's Amber
worlds certainly did. Another author that pulled it off nicely is Philip
Jose Farmer, in his "World of Tiers" books.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Uzytkownik "NIm" <bladedpenguin@yahoo.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:1113843880.613450.49000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> <unlurk>
> I've been interested in roguelikes for a while now, but I've been
> just
> too lazy. Maybe I'll do a 7 day roguelike after exams. is it too
> much
> to tackle, for having just learned c++?

Yes. Writing a 7DRL is not a simpler version of writing a full RL. It
is rather like with electronics: the smaller they are, the harder to
manufacture. All the succesful 7DRLs up to now came from experienced
and respected developers. BTW: "I have just learned c++" sounds a bit
like "I have just learned how to always be happy in marriage". It's a
bit hard to trust such statements ;-)

regards,
Filip Dreger
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

NIm wrote:
> What if a cyclops took up 4 squares, and couldn't travel in
> hallways?

It's probably not worth the trouble, when you know that many other
things are also in "wrong" scale in roguelikes, or better everything
is in the same scale limit (one tile). If you want to try that I
suggest
to carefully plan the feature right from the start. It's much harder
to add it later I think.
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:cLqdncGn-Ot7cf7fRVn-1w@rogers.com...
> The Sheep wrote:
>> Well, it's really up to you. There are some `hybrid' words out there,
>> both
>> in literature and in games.
>
> Yes, including only the best SNES FPS evah -- Chrono Trigger.
>

FPS? You mean console RPG, surely. And yes I agree that Chrono Trigger
is an awesome game.

--
Glen
L:pyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:
> "Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:cLqdncGn-Ot7cf7fRVn-1w@rogers.com...
>
>>The Sheep wrote:
>>
>>>Well, it's really up to you. There are some `hybrid' words out there,
>>>both
>>>in literature and in games.
>>
>>Yes, including only the best SNES FPS evah -- Chrono Trigger.
>
> FPS? You mean console RPG, surely. And yes I agree that Chrono Trigger
> is an awesome game.

Hrm, yes, RPG. :p The best FPS evah is (thus far) Half-Life 2, with
Half-Life and Quake following close behind. (For single player -- for
multiplayer, it's Quake III and Quake, neck and neck...)
--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Thanks guys, I'll probalby folow The sheep's suggestion and write a
few games before embarassing myself in public.

<relurk>
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Filip Dreger wrote:
> Uzytkownik "NIm" <bladedpenguin@yahoo.com> napisal w wiadomosci
> news:1113843880.613450.49000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> <unlurk>
>> I've been interested in roguelikes for a while now, but I've been
>> just
>> too lazy. Maybe I'll do a 7 day roguelike after exams. is it too
>> much
>> to tackle, for having just learned c++?
>
> Yes. Writing a 7DRL is not a simpler version of writing a full RL. It
> is rather like with electronics: the smaller they are, the harder to
> manufacture. All the succesful 7DRLs up to now came from experienced
> and respected developers. BTW: "I have just learned c++" sounds a bit
> like "I have just learned how to always be happy in marriage". It's a
> bit hard to trust such statements ;-)

I wouldn't fully agree -- writing a 7DRL is a lot easier then writing a
GenRogue-like (someone here used this term, I'll stick to it ;-) )
roguelike.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl)
"Gott weiss, Ich will kein Engel sein..." -- Rammstein /Engel/
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

NIm wrote:
>
> I've noticed in alot of roguelikes that there is one set scale for in
a
> dungeon. (wilderness in TOME and ADOM aside) The problem here is that
> everything from a colossal dragon to a puny rat are the same size,
> tactically. What if a cyclops took up 4 squares, and couldn't travel
in
> hallways? or what if the pc could be a Hill giant and need to
'enlarge'
> corridors before they become useful?

I did this in POWDER. Two creatures so far are double size, taking a
2x2 footprint rather than the normal 1 square foot print.

It took a lot of work to get mostly working, and is still very rough.

A previous discussion that is relevant:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/browse_frm/thread/17070615facf4def/e7a306b4cb90def5#e7a306b4cb90def5
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Hrm, yes, RPG. :p The best FPS evah is (thus far) Half-Life 2, with
> Half-Life and Quake following close behind. (For single player -- for
> multiplayer, it's Quake III and Quake, neck and neck...)

IYO.

Easy Ref:
http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=IYO&Find=Find

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk

SAD = "Snip And Dissemble" weapon of the nintendo script kiddies
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
[snip]

Infecting another thread? Aren't enough of them smouldering already from
your taking unprovoked potshots at me?

ABCGi, have you got anything useful to say?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Krice wrote:
> NIm wrote:
>
>>What if a cyclops took up 4 squares, and couldn't travel in
>>hallways?
>
> It's probably not worth the trouble, when you know that many other
> things are also in "wrong" scale in roguelikes, or better everything
> is in the same scale limit (one tile). If you want to try that I
> suggest
> to carefully plan the feature right from the start. It's much harder
> to add it later I think.

I've designed a dragon on 12 squares before.
It would be cool to escape larger monsters
by running down corridors.

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk

SAD = "Snip And Dissemble" weapon of the nintendo script kiddies
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Sherm Pendley wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> Easy Ref:
>> http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=IYO&Find=Find
>
> Acronym Finder, eh? I would have given an appendage (buyer's choice) for
> something like when I was serving in the military. :)
>
> Definitely bookmark material, thanks.
>
> sherm--

Same here! That and spell check I find really
handy;
http://www.spellcheck.net/

Dictionary;
http://dictionary.reference.com/

Wikipedia of course;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

And now I have added your Google define:Troll to
my database! Thanks...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3ATroll&btnG=Search
http://kb.indiana.edu/data/afhc.html?cust=959773.52022.30

Sherm whacks the Troll...
ABCGi whacks the Troll...
The Troll gets angry!

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
"Say what you mean" or Alice will assume you "mean what you say"
(Alice's Adventures in WL - "A Mad Tea-party" - Lewis Carroll)
Neo?TwistedOne medals - haha: 1 ignored: D wrong: 6 troll: 1A
 
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