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Afterlife and Memorial Files

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  • Development
  • Video Games
Last response: in PC Gaming
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 1:59:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

After seeing the improvements to DoomRL's mortem file, I got to
thinking of other things you can do to immortalize player's favorite
characters. Here are a couple of ideas I had.

1) Allow the player to flag a dead character as a "hero", and have an
ingame memorial to all hero characters. It can be a room lined with
ornaments, tapestries, and statues dedicated to the heroes. Examining
a statue will give you a full memorial file to browse through.
Obviously, you'd have to limit the number of "heroes" a player can
have, to keep the memorial to a respectable size. Maybe 20 or so?

2) Allow the player to flag a dead character as a "spirit", and have
an ingame graveyard, containing the graves of all "spirit" characters.
Similar in design to the above example, just with graves instead of
statues, and probably a larger number of dead characters will be allowed.

3) One of my favorite possibilities, would be to do the same thing as
the above example, except the player can choose to play as a "spirit"
character in the afterlife. The "spirit" character gets all his old
equipment, abilities, etc, except he can only adventure through the
afterlife. Could be quite fun, if your afterlife is like a Hades, or
a Valhalla type setting, both of which are prone to adventuring and
the like. Hell, you could even send the player to, well, Hell.
Something like the Inferno, with the player adventuring through the
nine circles of Hell, with the ultimate goal being to get past Satan,
to enter the passageway to Purgatory, and eventually Heaven.

Anyways, these were just a few ideas, and I really think that any of
these could add a great deal of player satisfaction to any game.
Nobody likes to lose their favorite character, but it sure would make
it nicer if the character got a nice memorial you can visit from time
to time. Or even better, if you go with the third possibility, the
game won't even end at death. It just moves to a new locale. ;-)


--
"There are of course many problems connected with life, of
which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
`Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

-- The Book.

More about : afterlife memorial files

April 29, 2005 1:59:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
> After seeing the improvements to DoomRL's mortem file, I got to
> thinking of other things you can do to immortalize player's favorite
> characters. Here are a couple of ideas I had.
>
> 1) Allow the player to flag a dead character as a "hero", and have
an
> ingame memorial to all hero characters. It can be a room lined with
> ornaments, tapestries, and statues dedicated to the heroes.

Mate, in DoomRL those "heroes" should be hanging on hooks...

A.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 3:09:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Antoine wrote:
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>>After seeing the improvements to DoomRL's mortem file, I got to
>>thinking of other things you can do to immortalize player's favorite
>>characters. Here are a couple of ideas I had.
>>
>>1) Allow the player to flag a dead character as a "hero", and have
>
> an
>
>>ingame memorial to all hero characters. It can be a room lined with
>>ornaments, tapestries, and statues dedicated to the heroes.
>
>
> Mate, in DoomRL those "heroes" should be hanging on hooks...

I hadn't thought of that. You know how much that would rock? Oh
yeah... ;-)



--
"There are of course many problems connected with life, of
which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
`Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

-- The Book.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 3:12:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Antoine wrote:
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>>After seeing the improvements to DoomRL's mortem file, I got to
>>thinking of other things you can do to immortalize player's favorite
>>characters. Here are a couple of ideas I had.
>>
>>1) Allow the player to flag a dead character as a "hero", and have
>
> an
>
>>ingame memorial to all hero characters. It can be a room lined with
>>ornaments, tapestries, and statues dedicated to the heroes.
>
>
> Mate, in DoomRL those "heroes" should be hanging on hooks...

My ideas weren't all concerning DoomRL, but RLs in general. It's just
DoomRL that got me thinking about it, however, since Kornel just
improved the mortem.txt with his last release.


--
"There are of course many problems connected with life, of
which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
`Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

-- The Book.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 9:18:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
> 1) Allow the player to flag a dead character as a "hero", and have an
> ingame memorial to all hero characters. It can be a room lined with
> ornaments, tapestries, and statues dedicated to the heroes. Examining a
> statue will give you a full memorial file to browse through. Obviously,
> you'd have to limit the number of "heroes" a player can have, to keep
> the memorial to a respectable size. Maybe 20 or so?

Well, in GenRogue's design there was a Graveyard. There you could see
the graves of your fallen heroes. But that would happen only if you
would decide o play in the same timeframe after your old character's
death. Another place to find your old heroes would be the Asylum --
because of GenRogue's design some characters could go mad -- but that is
a rather merciful option for you may have the chance to play them again
after a year gametime has past. The third place is Carceri, but I won'
spoil you on that ;-).

> 3) One of my favorite possibilities, would be to do the same thing as
> the above example, except the player can choose to play as a "spirit"
> character in the afterlife. The "spirit" character gets all his old
> equipment, abilities, etc, except he can only adventure through the
> afterlife.

This in GenRogue was supposed to be an option for character's that
played long enough (to make up for the loss of a character). And there
*is* a chance to come back to life... you would need to find a certain
person in the Shadowlands, and get him to give you a certain hourglass...

> Valhalla type setting, both of which are prone to adventuring and the
> like. Hell, you could even send the player to, well, Hell.

Design of GenRogue includes other planes... but the better fun part is
playing in the Shadowrealm -- a world parrallel to ours that in some
places is almost the same. An idea taken from Wraith : the Oblivion. And
it wouldn't be just for the dead, it is also designed to be the source
of much supernatural, and the place for various magic. Example -- you
were given the quest to banish an evil spirit from the graveyard... the
only way to do that is to slip in the graveyard to the "other side" for
only there you can truly harm the spirit. Of course the other side is
much "darker" then the real world, which in the World of Shadows means
it's *very* deadly...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"11 years and no binary. And it's not vapourware" -- Igor Savin
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 9:18:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>> 1) Allow the player to flag a dead character as a "hero", and have an
>> ingame memorial to all hero characters. It can be a room lined with
>> ornaments, tapestries, and statues dedicated to the heroes. Examining
>> a statue will give you a full memorial file to browse through.
>> Obviously, you'd have to limit the number of "heroes" a player can
>> have, to keep the memorial to a respectable size. Maybe 20 or so?
>
>
> Well, in GenRogue's design there was a Graveyard. There you could see
> the graves of your fallen heroes. But that would happen only if you
> would decide o play in the same timeframe after your old character's
> death. Another place to find your old heroes would be the Asylum --
> because of GenRogue's design some characters could go mad -- but that is
> a rather merciful option for you may have the chance to play them again
> after a year gametime has past. The third place is Carceri, but I won'
> spoil you on that ;-).
>
>> 3) One of my favorite possibilities, would be to do the same thing as
>> the above example, except the player can choose to play as a "spirit"
>> character in the afterlife. The "spirit" character gets all his old
>> equipment, abilities, etc, except he can only adventure through the
>> afterlife.
>
>
> This in GenRogue was supposed to be an option for character's that
> played long enough (to make up for the loss of a character). And there
> *is* a chance to come back to life... you would need to find a certain
> person in the Shadowlands, and get him to give you a certain hourglass...
>
>> Valhalla type setting, both of which are prone to adventuring and the
>> like. Hell, you could even send the player to, well, Hell.
>
>
> Design of GenRogue includes other planes... but the better fun part is
> playing in the Shadowrealm -- a world parrallel to ours that in some
> places is almost the same. An idea taken from Wraith : the Oblivion. And
> it wouldn't be just for the dead, it is also designed to be the source
> of much supernatural, and the place for various magic. Example -- you
> were given the quest to banish an evil spirit from the graveyard... the
> only way to do that is to slip in the graveyard to the "other side" for
> only there you can truly harm the spirit. Of course the other side is
> much "darker" then the real world, which in the World of Shadows means
> it's *very* deadly...

Now you've got me excited about GenRogue! Hurry up and finish it!
You're driving me crazy in anticipation! Arghhh!!! :-)


--
"There are of course many problems connected with life, of
which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
`Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

-- The Book.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 9:57:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
> Now you've got me excited about GenRogue! Hurry up and finish it!
> You're driving me crazy in anticipation! Arghhh!!! :-)

Aaah. I'm spending to much time on other projects now :-(. I need to
ressurect GR, but there are other things waiting in line... And GR is a
few years project. Well, the webpage says it all:
http://chaos.magma-net.pl

There's DiabloRL 0.5.0 to be completed, there's DoomRL 0.9.9, there's
TowerAssaultRL to be created, there's.... arghh...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"If hackers will ever use virtual reality, it would show a bunch
of text terminals floating around them..." -- The Sheep
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 9:30:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>> Now you've got me excited about GenRogue! Hurry up and finish it!
>> You're driving me crazy in anticipation! Arghhh!!! :-)
>
> Aaah. I'm spending to much time on other projects now :-(. I need to
> ressurect GR, but there are other things waiting in line... And GR is a
> few years project. Well, the webpage says it all:
> http://chaos.magma-net.pl
>
> There's DiabloRL 0.5.0 to be completed, there's DoomRL 0.9.9, there's
> TowerAssaultRL to be created, there's.... arghh...

and...

ParadroidRL 0.0.1
MatrixRL 1.1.1
HitchHikersRL 6.7.42

[smiley censored]

Look how many games of KK's is in my list below...
he won't be satisfied till he fills it!

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloBand
Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Tendrils - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 10:01:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>>
>>> Now you've got me excited about GenRogue! Hurry up and finish it!
>>> You're driving me crazy in anticipation! Arghhh!!! :-)
>>
>>
>> Aaah. I'm spending to much time on other projects now :-(. I need to
>> ressurect GR, but there are other things waiting in line... And GR is
>> a few years project. Well, the webpage says it all:
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl
>>
>> There's DiabloRL 0.5.0 to be completed, there's DoomRL 0.9.9, there's
>> TowerAssaultRL to be created, there's.... arghh...
>
>
> and...
>
> ParadroidRL 0.0.1
> MatrixRL 1.1.1
> HitchHikersRL 6.7.42

LOL! Oh, and don't forget Carceri 0.2.0 ;-)

> [smiley censored]
>
> Look how many games of KK's is in my list below...
> he won't be satisfied till he fills it!

BTW what's DiabloBand?
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It's much easier to make an army of dumb good people than to
make one single smart good guy..." -- DarkGod
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:55:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>
>>> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now you've got me excited about GenRogue! Hurry up and finish it!
>>>> You're driving me crazy in anticipation! Arghhh!!! :-)
>>>
>>> Aaah. I'm spending to much time on other projects now :-(. I need to
>>> ressurect GR, but there are other things waiting in line... And GR is
>>> a few years project. Well, the webpage says it all:
>>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl
>>>
>>> There's DiabloRL 0.5.0 to be completed, there's DoomRL 0.9.9, there's
>>> TowerAssaultRL to be created, there's.... arghh...
>>
>> and...
>>
>> ParadroidRL 0.0.1
>> MatrixRL 1.1.1
>> HitchHikersRL 6.7.42
>
> LOL! Oh, and don't forget Carceri 0.2.0 ;-)

:) 

>> [smiley censored]
>>
>> Look how many games of KK's is in my list below...
>> he won't be satisfied till he fills it!
>
> BTW what's DiabloBand?

hmmm perhaps I have confused myself, there is DiabloRL
and DiabloBand (an angband variant)? Or is there just
the one??? too tired... but hitchhikers would make a
great RL I think...

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloBand
Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Tendrils - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:20:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"ABCGi" <abcgi@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42765b8f$0$79461$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> ABCGi wrote:
>>
>>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Now you've got me excited about GenRogue! Hurry up and finish it!
>>>>> You're driving me crazy in anticipation! Arghhh!!! :-)
>>>>
>>>> Aaah. I'm spending to much time on other projects now :-(. I need to
>>>> ressurect GR, but there are other things waiting in line... And GR is a
>>>> few years project. Well, the webpage says it all:
>>>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl
>>>>
>>>> There's DiabloRL 0.5.0 to be completed, there's DoomRL 0.9.9, there's
>>>> TowerAssaultRL to be created, there's.... arghh...
>>>
>>> and...
>>>
>>> ParadroidRL 0.0.1
>>> MatrixRL 1.1.1
>>> HitchHikersRL 6.7.42
>>
>> LOL! Oh, and don't forget Carceri 0.2.0 ;-)
>
> :) 
>
>>> [smiley censored]
>>>
>>> Look how many games of KK's is in my list below...
>>> he won't be satisfied till he fills it!
>>
>> BTW what's DiabloBand?
>
> hmmm perhaps I have confused myself, there is DiabloRL
> and DiabloBand (an angband variant)? Or is there just
> the one??? too tired... but hitchhikers would make a
> great RL I think...
>

Well, there is a Diabloband but it's quite dead. Perhaps you are thinking
of (IIRC) Hellband, which is much newer and (IMO) quite cool?

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:30:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:
> "ABCGi" <abcgi@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:42765b8f$0$79461$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>
>>Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>
>>>ABCGi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Timothy Pruett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Now you've got me excited about GenRogue! Hurry up and finish it!
>>>>>>You're driving me crazy in anticipation! Arghhh!!! :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Aaah. I'm spending to much time on other projects now :-(. I need to
>>>>>ressurect GR, but there are other things waiting in line... And GR is a
>>>>>few years project. Well, the webpage says it all:
>>>>>http://chaos.magma-net.pl
>>>>>
>>>>>There's DiabloRL 0.5.0 to be completed, there's DoomRL 0.9.9, there's
>>>>>TowerAssaultRL to be created, there's.... arghh...
>>>>
>>>>and...
>>>>
>>>>ParadroidRL 0.0.1
>>>>MatrixRL 1.1.1
>>>>HitchHikersRL 6.7.42
>>>
>>>LOL! Oh, and don't forget Carceri 0.2.0 ;-)
>>
>>:) 
>>
>>
>>>>[smiley censored]
>>>>
>>>>Look how many games of KK's is in my list below...
>>>>he won't be satisfied till he fills it!
>>>
>>>BTW what's DiabloBand?
>>
>>hmmm perhaps I have confused myself, there is DiabloRL
>>and DiabloBand (an angband variant)? Or is there just
>>the one??? too tired... but hitchhikers would make a
>>great RL I think...
>
> Well, there is a Diabloband but it's quite dead. Perhaps you are thinking
> of (IIRC) Hellband, which is much newer and (IMO) quite cool?

No but I'll try it thanks! Looks like I played DiabloRL and
then got excited and put DiabloBand in my sig, which I had
also downloaded at some stage :) 

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Tendrils - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 1:30:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
>> Well, there is a Diabloband but it's quite dead. Perhaps you are
>> thinking of (IIRC) Hellband, which is much newer and (IMO) quite cool?
>
>
> No but I'll try it thanks! Looks like I played DiabloRL and
> then got excited and put DiabloBand in my sig, which I had
> also downloaded at some stage :) 

LOL ;-)

> ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
> Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
> DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
> Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Tendrils - TheTombs

Hmmm... still 7 slots to be filled. Or maybe just 5 if I come up with
longer names... It's going to be a loooooooong summer.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
Carceri -- A prelude to GenRogue... Coming Soon
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 9:30:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>>> Well, there is a Diabloband but it's quite dead. Perhaps you are
>>> thinking of (IIRC) Hellband, which is much newer and (IMO) quite cool?
>>
>> No but I'll try it thanks! Looks like I played DiabloRL and
>> then got excited and put DiabloBand in my sig, which I had
>> also downloaded at some stage :) 
>
> LOL ;-)
>
>> ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
>> Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
>> DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
>> Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Tendrils - TheTombs
>
> Hmmm... still 7 slots to be filled. Or maybe just 5 if I come up with
> longer names... It's going to be a loooooooong summer.

hehehe how much less effort is it to create the 2nd RL
once your have the 1st to copy and paste code from?

What order would you be doing these new RLs in? Please
include all the crazy requests you've had - even if they
go straight to the bottom!

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Tendrils - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 9:30:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

abcgi@yahoo.com wrote:
>hehehe how much less effort is it to create the 2nd RL
>once your have the 1st to copy and paste code from?

Well, Danenth (based on dungeonbash) is going to be quite a lot of work,
but that's because I'm planning to refactor significant chunks of it.
*After* I've released my CD-R of bizarre algorithmic music, though.
Expect Danenth some time around the end of June.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.ht...
Everyone expected the Bavarian Inquisition.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 9:30:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com>
wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 17:30:54 +1000:
> hehehe how much less effort is it to create the 2nd RL
> once your have the 1st to copy and paste code from?

I've reused a few methods from game to game, and refined the design
philosophy, but largely I write each one from scratch so I can fix my
prior mistakes. It only took a day from starting Noctyr to having a
moving-around-hitting-walls game. Currently, I can kill rats in a
random maze, and it's just about ready to get the random parts of the
world.

So it's helpful for the common basics, but if you're doing it right,
it still takes a lot of work.

--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Gibson and I dueled among blazing stacks of books for a while. [...] The
streets were crowded with his black-suited minions and I had to turn into a
swarm of locusts and fly back to Seattle." -Neal Stephenson, /. interview
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:12:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Martin Read wrote:
> abcgi@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>hehehe how much less effort is it to create the 2nd RL
>>once your have the 1st to copy and paste code from?
>
> Well, Danenth (based on dungeonbash) is going to be quite a lot of work,
> but that's because I'm planning to refactor significant chunks of it.

Yeah Kornels DiabloRL and DoomRL look like they share a
bit of code without refactoring... meaning he has some
of the benefits of an engine without having to write
one... who knows how good his code is though??? ;P

> *After* I've released my CD-R of bizarre algorithmic music, though.

Wacky sounding... any links to mp3s?

> Expect Danenth some time around the end of June.

Mayhap it will get on the playlist :) 

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:12:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

abcgi@yahoo.com wrote:
>Martin Read wrote:
>> Well, Danenth (based on dungeonbash) is going to be quite a lot of work,
>> but that's because I'm planning to refactor significant chunks of it.
>
>Yeah Kornels DiabloRL and DoomRL look like they share a
>bit of code without refactoring... meaning he has some
>of the benefits of an engine without having to write
>one... who knows how good his code is though??? ;P

I'm refactoring game mechanics. There will be adjectives and associated
powers for weapons (and armour, for that matter); on the other hand,
you'll need them, as resistances will no longer be binary immunity
toggles.

>> *After* I've released my CD-R of bizarre algorithmic music, though.
>
>Wacky sounding... any links to mp3s?

Just the one so far:
http://www.zen75502.zen.co.uk/cuboctahedron/Procession....

(I don't do MP3. It's IP-encumbered *and* technologically inferior.)
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.ht...
Everyone expected the Bavarian Inquisition.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:12:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Yeah Kornels DiabloRL and DoomRL look like they share a
> bit of code without refactoring... meaning he has some
> of the benefits of an engine without having to write
> one... who knows how good his code is though??? ;P

Given the choice of language, I think it isn't hard to guess. ;) 

It must be excellent code -- Mistress Compiler would not have it any
other way.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:07:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Martin Read wrote:
> abcgi@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>Martin Read wrote:
>>
>>>Well, Danenth (based on dungeonbash) is going to be quite a lot of work,
>>>but that's because I'm planning to refactor significant chunks of it.
>>
>>Yeah Kornels DiabloRL and DoomRL look like they share a
>>bit of code without refactoring... meaning he has some
>>of the benefits of an engine without having to write
>>one... who knows how good his code is though??? ;P
>
> I'm refactoring game mechanics. There will be adjectives and associated
> powers for weapons (and armour, for that matter); on the other hand,
> you'll need them, as resistances will no longer be binary immunity
> toggles.

Hmm I'll give a try when there is a Windows binary
to download!

>>>*After* I've released my CD-R of bizarre algorithmic music, though.
>>
>>Wacky sounding... any links to mp3s?
>
> Just the one so far:
> http://www.zen75502.zen.co.uk/cuboctahedron/Procession....
>
> (I don't do MP3. It's IP-encumbered *and* technologically inferior.)

Downloaded - have to see if anything I have will play it :) 

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:07:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
[Regarding an ogg file]
> Downloaded - have to see if anything I have will play it :) 

Winamp (the One True Media Player for Windows) will definitely play
oggs. At least, recent versions will.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 6:51:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote:
> ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com>
> wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 17:30:54 +1000:
>
>>hehehe how much less effort is it to create the 2nd RL
>>once your have the 1st to copy and paste code from?
>
> I've reused a few methods from game to game, and refined the design
> philosophy, but largely I write each one from scratch so I can fix my
> prior mistakes. It only took a day from starting Noctyr to having a
> moving-around-hitting-walls game. Currently, I can kill rats in a
> random maze, and it's just about ready to get the random parts of the
> world.

So no big core library of RL functions. Do you do
stuff like LOS all over again as well or is that
one of the reused ones?

> So it's helpful for the common basics, but if you're doing it right,
> it still takes a lot of work.

Make at least 5 or 6 RLs for you wouldn't it (counting
the smiley face one)? Pretty prodigious.

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 6:51:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com>
wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 02:51:58 +1000:
> Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote:
>> ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com>
>> wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 17:30:54 +1000:
>>>hehehe how much less effort is it to create the 2nd RL
>>>once your have the 1st to copy and paste code from?
>> I've reused a few methods from game to game, and refined the design
>> philosophy, but largely I write each one from scratch so I can fix my
>> prior mistakes. It only took a day from starting Noctyr to having a
>> moving-around-hitting-walls game. Currently, I can kill rats in a
>> random maze, and it's just about ready to get the random parts of the
>> world.
> So no big core library of RL functions. Do you do
> stuff like LOS all over again as well or is that
> one of the reused ones?

Yeah, I reuse my visicalc routine in every Java game, pretty much
unchanged since Delver. I know I got the basic algorithm from somewhere
else, but I don't recall where, and there's no comment in my code. I've
tried other LOS techniques, but it's hard to beat what I have now.

>> So it's helpful for the common basics, but if you're doing it right,
>> it still takes a lot of work.
> Make at least 5 or 6 RLs for you wouldn't it (counting
> the smiley face one)? Pretty prodigious.

More than you know.

Released, I have Delver (not nearly complete, but I still scavenge
stuff from it, and it's actually a good framework to make an adventure
game in--the placeholder art is meant to be replaced), Halon Escape
(which isn't roguelike, exactly, but uses roguelike gameplay elements),
Umbra, Hephaestus 1 & 2 (they're not *quite* totally different games,
but very close, and had totally different adventures), and now Noctyr.

That's aside from Aiee! and GameScroll, my interactive fiction
systems, and a ton of other tools and apps I write for work and play.

I've also got a dead roguelike MUD and a dead 3D roguelike. Neither
will see the light of day. A Boulder Dash-like thing called Extraction,
never got it balanced the way I wanted. Long before that was my ca.1995
OS/2 C game "Quest" (never released) and my ca. 1989 Atari ST BBS
doorgame "Delver" (widely played on my and other BBSes back in the day).
I don't inflict my toy languages on the world because they're just
entertainment and language design practice for me, but I've got several
of those.

Like a novelist who can knock out one book a year, good or bad, after
a while it adds up.

--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Gibson and I dueled among blazing stacks of books for a while. [...] The
streets were crowded with his black-suited minions and I had to turn into a
swarm of locusts and fly back to Seattle." -Neal Stephenson, /. interview
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 6:44:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
> Given the choice of language, I think it isn't hard to guess. ;) 
>
> It must be excellent code -- Mistress Compiler would not have it any
> other way.

ROTFL! Can I add that to my .sig file? :-D

--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It must be excellent code -- Mistress Compiler would not have it any
other way." -- Twisted One
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:15:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> Hmmm... still 7 slots to be filled. Or maybe just 5 if I come up with
>> longer names... It's going to be a loooooooong summer.
>
> hehehe how much less effort is it to create the 2nd RL
> once your have the 1st to copy and paste code from?

It's simple as much Valkyrie makes things simpler. The codebase of
DiabloRL is completely different from DoomRL (including the FOV
algorithm, dungeon algorithm and others).

> What order would you be doing these new RLs in? Please
> include all the crazy requests you've had - even if they
> go straight to the bottom!

LOL ;-). Once I get to GenRogue, all aothers will stop :-/. I think I'll
do Carceri first tough...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"From what I've read, a lot of people believe that GenRogue
exists and will be released some day" -- Arxenia Xentrophore
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 9:20:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
[ ... ]
> Well, Danenth (based on dungeonbash) is going to be quite a lot of work,

Does that mean that there won't be a new dungeonbash? There are still some
bugs that I always wanted to report, but just didn't get to.

[ ... ]

> Everyone expected the Bavarian Inquisition.

They did? I was rather surprised by the decision, to be honest.

Cheers, Gero

--
Gero Kunter (gero.kunter@epost.de)
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 4:44:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Gero Kunter <gero.kunter@epost.de> wrote:
>Martin Read <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>[ ... ]
>> Well, Danenth (based on dungeonbash) is going to be quite a lot of work,
>
> Does that mean that there won't be a new dungeonbash? There are still some
>bugs that I always wanted to report, but just didn't get to.

Bug reports are always welcome. I'll even try to do something about
them. But I'm not really planning to do any more *feature* releases for
dungeonbash.

>[ ... ]
>
>> Everyone expected the Bavarian Inquisition.
>
> They did? I was rather surprised by the decision, to be honest.

It was intended more as a cheap-arse one-liner than a serious comment :) 
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.ht...
The devil take your stereo and your record collection.
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 5:44:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm... still 7 slots to be filled. Or maybe just 5 if I come up with
>>> longer names... It's going to be a loooooooong summer.
>>
>> hehehe how much less effort is it to create the 2nd RL
>> once your have the 1st to copy and paste code from?
>
> It's simple as much Valkyrie makes things simpler. The codebase of
> DiabloRL is completely different from DoomRL (including the FOV
> algorithm, dungeon algorithm and others).

So same effort for both, just Valkyrie made that effort
lower.

>> What order would you be doing these new RLs in? Please
>> include all the crazy requests you've had - even if they
>> go straight to the bottom!
>
> LOL ;-). Once I get to GenRogue, all aothers will stop :-/. I think I'll
> do Carceri first tough...

What is "Carceri"???

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 5:44:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> ABCGi wrote:
>>
>>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hmmm... still 7 slots to be filled. Or maybe just 5 if I come up
>>>> with longer names... It's going to be a loooooooong summer.
>>>
>>>
>>> hehehe how much less effort is it to create the 2nd RL
>>> once your have the 1st to copy and paste code from?
>>
>>
>> It's simple as much Valkyrie makes things simpler. The codebase of
>> DiabloRL is completely different from DoomRL (including the FOV
>> algorithm, dungeon algorithm and others).
>
> So same effort for both, just Valkyrie made that effort
> lower.

I want to include a good shadowcasting/fov to Valkyrie. Also I think of
a generic map-generator library.

>>> What order would you be doing these new RLs in? Please
>>> include all the crazy requests you've had - even if they
>>> go straight to the bottom!
>>
>> LOL ;-). Once I get to GenRogue, all aothers will stop :-/. I think
>> I'll do Carceri first tough...
>
> What is "Carceri"???

Aaaah ;-).
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
Carceri -- A prelude to GenRogue... Coming soon ;-)
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 6:32:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>>> What order would you be doing these new RLs in? Please
>>>> include all the crazy requests you've had - even if they
>>>> go straight to the bottom!
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL ;-). Once I get to GenRogue, all aothers will stop :-/. I think
>>> I'll do Carceri first tough...
>>
>>
>> What is "Carceri"???
>
> Aaaah ;-).

Aaah, no one got provoked :-(
;-)

--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"If hackers will ever use virtual reality, it would show a bunch
of text terminals floating around them..." -- The Sheep
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 3:32:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>>>>> What order would you be doing these new RLs in? Please
>>>>> include all the crazy requests you've had - even if they
>>>>> go straight to the bottom!
>>>>
>>>> LOL ;-). Once I get to GenRogue, all aothers will stop :-/. I think
>>>> I'll do Carceri first tough...
>>>
>>> What is "Carceri"???
>>
>> Aaaah ;-).
>
> Aaah, no one got provoked :-(
> ;-)

I just thought I'd wait before requesting a hint
for the third time of this mystery RL!!!

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 3:32:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
>> Aaah, no one got provoked :-(
>> ;-)
>
> I just thought I'd wait before requesting a hint
> for the third time of this mystery RL!!!

It's "A prelude to GenRogue" -- set in the World of Shadows. And it will
be a good, old-fasioned dungeon crawl. But it will also be very
customizable. Who knows ... ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Come on, Kornel. 11 years and no binary? And it's not
vapourware?" -- Mike Blackney
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 6:52:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>>> Aaah, no one got provoked :-(
>>> ;-)
>>
>> I just thought I'd wait before requesting a hint
>> for the third time of this mystery RL!!!
>
> It's "A prelude to GenRogue" -- set in the World of Shadows. And it will
> be a good, old-fasioned dungeon crawl. But it will also be very
> customizable. Who knows ... ;-)

Feature creep already!!! :)  Keep it simple, keep it released!

Sounds exciting.

What does Carceri refer to/mean in the game? It seems like a
average name in marketing terms :( 

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:04:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> It's "A prelude to GenRogue" -- set in the World of Shadows. And it
>> will be a good, old-fasioned dungeon crawl. But it will also be very
>> customizable. Who knows ... ;-)
>
> Feature creep already!!! :) 

Why Feature Creep?

> Keep it simple, keep it released!

Why do you think DoomRL and DiabloRL saw daylight, huh? I learned my
lesson ;-D

> What does Carceri refer to/mean in the game? It seems like a
> average name in marketing terms :( 

Average? Why average?

The other title I was thinking was Berserk, but Carceri is more
google-friendly.

Carceri in the World of Shadows is one of the Alternative Planes of
existence. It's the Infinite Prison. A place that can be reached in some
prisons of the world of Shadows where the pain, suffering and horror has
been so great, that reality got shifted and corrupted, and opened a
passage to the place beyond. Carceri is an infinite prision, without
wardens, without a chance to escape, with no hopes of the end of suffering.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It's much easier to make an army of dumb good people than to
make one single smart good guy..." -- DarkGod
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:04:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:

> The other title I was thinking was Berserk, but Carceri is more
> google-friendly.

I wouldn't use the title "Berserk" unless I were making an RL version of
the arcade classic by that name.

"Intruder alert, intruder alert!"
"Chicken - Fight like a robot!"

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:25:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Sherm Pendley wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> The other title I was thinking was Berserk, but Carceri is more
>> google-friendly.
>
> I wouldn't use the title "Berserk" unless I were making an RL version of
> the arcade classic by that name.

In this case it's not that Berserk I am refering to. It's the
Anime/Manga of the same title ;-). Probably the most Shadowworldish
piece of fiction I ever had my hands on...

--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Come on, Kornel. 11 years and no binary? And it's not
vapourware?" -- Mike Blackney
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:49:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Sun, 08 May 2005 17:25:28 +0200,
Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):

> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:

>>> The other title I was thinking was Berserk, but Carceri is more
>>> google-friendly.

>> I wouldn't use the title "Berserk" unless I were making an RL version of
>> the arcade classic by that name.

> In this case it's not that Berserk I am refering to. It's the
> Anime/Manga of the same title ;-). Probably the most Shadowworldish
> piece of fiction I ever had my hands on...

Ever seen 'Blame!'? And it's great material for a roguelike!

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 12:18:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
>>In this case it's not that Berserk I am refering to. It's the
>>Anime/Manga of the same title ;-). Probably the most Shadowworldish
>>piece of fiction I ever had my hands on...
>
> Ever seen 'Blame!'? And it's great material for a roguelike!

Never seen it. A manga? Where can I find more info?
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Gott weiss, Ich will kein Engel sein..." -- Rammstein /Engel/
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 12:18:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Sun, 08 May 2005 20:18:57 +0200,
Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):

> The Sheep wrote:
>>>In this case it's not that Berserk I am refering to. It's the
>>>Anime/Manga of the same title ;-). Probably the most Shadowworldish
>>>piece of fiction I ever had my hands on...
>>
>> Ever seen 'Blame!'? And it's great material for a roguelike!
>
> Never seen it. A manga? Where can I find more info?

This group used to scanslate it:
http://omanga.net/?cid=b_blame

Their scanslations are still floating around the internet, even
when the manga became licensed (in the US probably).

There are also 6 short anime films, but you have to read manga to really
understand/enjoy them.

The manga is about a lone character, name 'Killy', who travels trough
the Megastructure -- a gigantic building that englufed whole earth and
even the moon, in the search of a human with true, unaltered DNA.
The Megastructure is mostly ruined construct, inhabited by savages humans,
small civilized communities, and lots of strange and creepy creatures,
including mutated insects, silicon beings, governors and builder robots.

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 12:18:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Sun, 8 May 2005 18:32:29 +0000 (UTC),
The Sheep napisal(a):

> Dnia Sun, 08 May 2005 20:18:57 +0200,
> Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):
>
>> The Sheep wrote:
>>> Ever seen 'Blame!'? And it's great material for a roguelike!
>> Never seen it. A manga? Where can I find more info?

> This group used to scanslate it:
> http://omanga.net/?cid=b_blame

> Their scanslations are still floating around the internet, even
> when the manga became licensed (in the US probably).

There's also a prequel to 'Blame!', by the same author and in a pretty
similar style, you can read it here:

http://omanga.net/?cid=b_noise

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 5:29:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>
>>> It's "A prelude to GenRogue" -- set in the World of Shadows. And it
>>> will be a good, old-fasioned dungeon crawl. But it will also be very
>>> customizable. Who knows ... ;-)
>>
>> Feature creep already!!! :) 
>
> Why Feature Creep?

Good simple dungeon crawl..... but I will make it fully
customisable = not simple anymore :)  Who knows sounds
like an area for potential feature creep.

>> Keep it simple, keep it released!
>
> Why do you think DoomRL and DiabloRL saw daylight, huh? I learned my
> lesson ;-D

Indeed - you have done well - perhaps an article on
RL productivity ;) 

>> What does Carceri refer to/mean in the game? It seems like a
>> average name in marketing terms :( 
>
> Average? Why average?
>
> The other title I was thinking was Berserk, but Carceri is more
> google-friendly.

Well there is some marketing consideration! Berserk
is catchier though!

> Carceri in the World of Shadows is one of the Alternative Planes of
> existence. It's the Infinite Prison. A place that can be reached in some
> prisons of the world of Shadows where the pain, suffering and horror has
> been so great, that reality got shifted and corrupted, and opened a
> passage to the place beyond. Carceri is an infinite prision, without
> wardens, without a chance to escape, with no hopes of the end of suffering.

Sounds great!

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 5:29:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> Why Feature Creep?
>
> Good simple dungeon crawl..... but I will make it fully
> customisable = not simple anymore :)  Who knows sounds
> like an area for potential feature creep.

The idea is I'll keep the DoomRL constraints in -- only dungeon, limited
inventory, one-item-per-square, screen-sized levels, but allow people to
write their own modules in these restrictions. DiabloRL was close to that.

>>> Keep it simple, keep it released!
>>
>> Why do you think DoomRL and DiabloRL saw daylight, huh? I learned my
>> lesson ;-D
>
> Indeed - you have done well - perhaps an article on
> RL productivity ;) 

After I release GenRogue ;-D.

>>> What does Carceri refer to/mean in the game? It seems like a
>>> average name in marketing terms :( 
>>
>> Average? Why average?
>>
>> The other title I was thinking was Berserk, but Carceri is more
>> google-friendly.
>
> Well there is some marketing consideration! Berserk
> is catchier though!

I know ;-). But it's Google-Unfriendly.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"The name of GenRogue, has become a warning against excessively
complex design." -- RGRD FAQ
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 6:40:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>
>>> Why Feature Creep?
>>
>> Good simple dungeon crawl..... but I will make it fully
>> customisable = not simple anymore :)  Who knows sounds
>> like an area for potential feature creep.
>
> The idea is I'll keep the DoomRL constraints in -- only dungeon, limited
> inventory, one-item-per-square, screen-sized levels, but allow people to
> write their own modules in these restrictions. DiabloRL was close to that.

This sounds excellent... would still need to be
wary of tring to do too much with the module maker...
but very exciting. I would love to see an in-game
editor and module selector with templates... this
is something I would like to add to the H-World
engine.

>>>> Keep it simple, keep it released!
>>>
>>> Why do you think DoomRL and DiabloRL saw daylight, huh? I learned my
>>> lesson ;-D
>>
>> Indeed - you have done well - perhaps an article on
>> RL productivity ;) 
>
> After I release GenRogue ;-D.

muwhahaha ie when ShockFrost releases his second
game.

>>>> What does Carceri refer to/mean in the game? It seems like a
>>>> average name in marketing terms :( 
>>>
>>> Average? Why average?
>>>
>>> The other title I was thinking was Berserk, but Carceri is more
>>> google-friendly.
>>
>> Well there is some marketing consideration! Berserk
>> is catchier though!
>
> I know ;-). But it's Google-Unfriendly.

Google wins!

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 6:40:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> ABCGi wrote:
>>
>>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why Feature Creep?
>>>
>>>
>>> Good simple dungeon crawl..... but I will make it fully
>>> customisable = not simple anymore :)  Who knows sounds
>>> like an area for potential feature creep.
>>
>>
>> The idea is I'll keep the DoomRL constraints in -- only dungeon,
>> limited inventory, one-item-per-square, screen-sized levels, but allow
>> people to write their own modules in these restrictions. DiabloRL was
>> close to that.
>
> This sounds excellent... would still need to be
> wary of tring to do too much with the module maker...

There will be no module maker (unless someone writes it :-D). The game
will be driven by human-readable text files that will be compiled to a
distributable mod-file.

> but very exciting. I would love to see an in-game
> editor and module selector with templates...

Aaaah. That would be overkill ;-/
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Gott weiss, Ich will kein Engel sein..." -- Rammstein /Engel/
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:20:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>
>>> ABCGi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why Feature Creep?
>>>>
>>>> Good simple dungeon crawl..... but I will make it fully
>>>> customisable = not simple anymore :)  Who knows sounds
>>>> like an area for potential feature creep.
>>>
>>> The idea is I'll keep the DoomRL constraints in -- only dungeon,
>>> limited inventory, one-item-per-square, screen-sized levels, but
>>> allow people to write their own modules in these restrictions.
>>> DiabloRL was close to that.
>>
>> This sounds excellent... would still need to be
>> wary of tring to do too much with the module maker...
>
> There will be no module maker (unless someone writes it :-D). The game
> will be driven by human-readable text files that will be compiled to a
> distributable mod-file.

Ok this is how H-World does it and presents the following
issues (I am well versed in this - trust me! both with
H-World scripting and Max Payne) which you may want to
consider in your design - I will be curious to see your
approach;

* Error checking.
Writing any non-trivial script/data file without the
benefit of an error checking routine and/or good
validation with good reporting when the program is
run is extremely annoying and unproductive. Max Payne had
a pre validation routine that ran when the module was loaded
with reasonable error messages - this made a BIG difference
to debugging modules.

* Module Development Speed.
Not having a WYSIWYG method of editing modules is slower
as there is a delay between making your changes and seeing
them - esp when you have to rerun the software and load the
module again, then go to test that part of the script etc
To allow editing of the text file within the game, or
for the text file to be resaved and reloaded within the
game without a need to restart the game and/or the module
itself would speed things up immensely.

* Quality of Data.
Using a simple editor to build text files for script and
data allows for a much higher level of quality and control
of that data - whilst also allowing the text file to be
edited manually by "experts".

* Reading Documentation
It is much slower to make a useful module editing text
files as it requires reading a lot of documentation. However
little changes would be quicker, and an editor will often
not be as powerful as editing the text file as it may
inadvertently prevent certain changes.

* Passing on programmers job to module maker!
Editing just a text file, if at all useful, incorporates
a lot of the effort and complexity of actually programming
the thing in the first place!
The answer here might be if the scripts are not overly
powerful or complex - but I have heard you say it is
going to be "very customisable" = scary ;) 

* Popularity.
The complexity of text editing can lock out newbies and
the less "gifted". Module making will have a higher
take up with a good WYSIWYG editor both because it is
easier and more inviting (built right into the products
menu) and because it does not lock out the lower end.

newbies ------------ scripters ---------- programmers
A B C

A can't and C may prefer to write their own code leaving
you with just B.

Well, there endith my soap box! I tried to encourage
Hajo to build an WYSIWYG editor into H-World as I felt
this would improve the use and editing of it. But quite
rightly he pointed out issues from his other attempt
at that with SimuTrans;

1. The editor requires updating every time the code
is changed
2. It's a lot of work - that could be spent on actual
game/engine features.

(Now thats H-World is on Source Forge I've got no
excuse not to do the fixes written here to H-World
myself! doh!)

>> but very exciting. I would love to see an in-game
>> editor and module selector with templates...
>
> Aaaah. That would be overkill ;-/

Ah so I'm the feature creep now!

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:20:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> There will be no module maker (unless someone writes it :-D). The game
>> will be driven by human-readable text files that will be compiled to a
>> distributable mod-file.

> * Error checking.
> Writing any non-trivial script/data file without the
> benefit of an error checking routine and/or good
> validation with good reporting when the program is
> run is extremely annoying and unproductive. Max Payne had
> a pre validation routine that ran when the module was loaded
> with reasonable error messages - this made a BIG difference
> to debugging modules.

You overextimate on what I plan to add to Carceri ;-). There will be no
scripting -- modules will be completely datadriven, with the small
exeception of Triggers. As for the data itself, it is the domain of the
Valkyrie Lexer and Debugger ;-).

> * Module Development Speed.
> Not having a WYSIWYG method of editing modules is slower
> as there is a delay between making your changes and seeing
> them - esp when you have to rerun the software and load the
> module again, then go to test that part of the script etc

You are talking about games that load more then one second ;-). In the
case of Carceri it would be no slower then running a compiler while
developing.

> To allow editing of the text file within the game, or
> for the text file to be resaved and reloaded within the
> game without a need to restart the game and/or the module
> itself would speed things up immensely.

Would be possible. But I don't think that's so needed.

> * Quality of Data.
> Using a simple editor to build text files for script and
> data allows for a much higher level of quality and control
> of that data - whilst also allowing the text file to be
> edited manually by "experts".

??? I don't get the point of this point ;-).

> * Reading Documentation
> It is much slower to make a useful module editing text
> files as it requires reading a lot of documentation.

Not if the data is selfexplanatory.

> * Passing on programmers job to module maker!
> Editing just a text file, if at all useful, incorporates
> a lot of the effort and complexity of actually programming
> the thing in the first place!

Not if it's data-driven. Think "more-readable more-powerful Angband
data-files".

> The answer here might be if the scripts are not overly
> powerful or complex - but I have heard you say it is
> going to be "very customisable" = scary ;) 

Aaah, not THAT much ;-). Let's say it will be "customizable". Ok?

> newbies ------------ scripters ---------- programmers
> A B C
>
> A can't and C may prefer to write their own code leaving
> you with just B.

I aim at the same people who'd like to change the Angband datafiles to
have the game set in their world. But Carceri will have advantages in
this regard over Angband:

* smaller, more focused levels
* game smaller by itself -- more fun, and not endless rooms & corridors
* smaller amount of data needed to be edited for a full world-port
* persistent and customizable levels and level structure
* basic plot support
* more readable data-files
* possibility to also edit things like intro-screen etc.
* scalable -- you can have either a 5 level mini-roguelike
or several level, several dungeon branch roguelike

I always wanted to do a full world-port of Angband. But the amount of
monsters/items/egoitems/etc I would have to create always turned me away...

Carceri will allow to create simple, fun roguelikes, set in the fantasy
world you want to imagine. The combat system, inventory system, magic
system will all be hard-coded, but the data is your's to modify/create.

....unless you're a FreePascal programmer -- then you will be able to
modify the source. But I doubt anyone will go that far. And opening the
source will be done when the game is at least partialy finished.

> Well, there endith my soap box! I tried to encourage
> Hajo to build an WYSIWYG editor into H-World as I felt
> this would improve the use and editing of it. But quite
> rightly he pointed out issues from his other attempt
> at that with SimuTrans;

As you see, a WYSIWYG editor for Carceri would be pretty useless...
actually I can't imagine how would you see it...

>>> but very exciting. I would love to see an in-game
>>> editor and module selector with templates...
>>
>> Aaaah. That would be overkill ;-/
>
> Ah so I'm the feature creep now!

Yes, that *is* feature creep ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It must be excellent code -- Mistress Compiler would not have
it any other way." -- Twisted One
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 5:12:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> That's where the Lexer pops in -- it safeguards against corrupted data
>> and prints meaningfull error messages (or so I hope :-D).
>
> That sounds very good - useful like Max Payne pre
> validation upon loading the module.

That would be done still in the compilation phase.

>>> Will it look like the php.ini file!!!! ;) 
>> You mean 90% comments? ;-D
> ;Yeah 99% comments! ;P

No ;-).

>> Yes, kind of ;-). It would be funny and stupid to remake DoomRL under
>> carceri afterwards :-D. Although Carceri will be more aimed at Fantasy
>> worlds.
>
> I didn't mean that - I meant more generally a simple
> cool game (as DoomRL is) which you can play with the
> variables = super sweet.


Yes.

> English is not your first
> language or am I hard to understand??? ;) 

No ;-). It's my second. Head to head with German.

>> architecture. GenRogue itself will be completely data-driven (but you
>> don't want to know how deep that will go...)
>
> No no I don't - apparently its VapourWare anyway ;P

Visit GenRogue's webpage ;-).

>> "And now, let's talk about the schedule. Then we'll adress the budget..."
>> "Uh... *what* budget???"
>
> We must have a pre-meeting before we have that meeting.

"A pre-meeting already? What about the state of division one? The CEO of
division one reported lately, that money for popcorn is running low!"

--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 3:39:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>
>>> That's where the Lexer pops in -- it safeguards against corrupted
>>> data and prints meaningfull error messages (or so I hope :-D).
>>
>> That sounds very good - useful like Max Payne pre
>> validation upon loading the module.
>
> That would be done still in the compilation phase.

Right but the compilation might as well be just
before running it right? Otherwise its just an
extra step???

>>>> Will it look like the php.ini file!!!! ;) 
>>>
>>> You mean 90% comments? ;-D
>>
>> ;Yeah 99% comments! ;P
>
> No ;-).
>
>>> Yes, kind of ;-). It would be funny and stupid to remake DoomRL under
>>> carceri afterwards :-D. Although Carceri will be more aimed at
>>> Fantasy worlds.
>>
>> I didn't mean that - I meant more generally a simple
>> cool game (as DoomRL is) which you can play with the
>> variables = super sweet.
>
> Yes.
>
>> English is not your first
>> language or am I hard to understand??? ;) 
>
> No ;-). It's my second. Head to head with German.

Actung! Verboten ze GenRogue!

>>> architecture. GenRogue itself will be completely data-driven (but you
>>> don't want to know how deep that will go...)
>>
>> No no I don't - apparently its VapourWare anyway ;P
>
> Visit GenRogue's webpage ;-).

It vanished...

>>> "And now, let's talk about the schedule. Then we'll adress the
>>> budget..."
>>> "Uh... *what* budget???"
>>
>> We must have a pre-meeting before we have that meeting.
>
> "A pre-meeting already? What about the state of division one? The CEO of
> division one reported lately, that money for popcorn is running low!"

*smile*

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:28:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> English is not your first
>> language or am I hard to understand??? ;) 
>
> No ;-). It's my second. Head to head with German.

What's your first, then?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:32:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> hmmmmm - "compiled" into one big text file? ... have to
> call it a collator not a compiler :) 

Sounds like it's both, actually.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
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