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Anonymous
May 6, 2005 9:04:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

copx wrote:

> "Christophe Cavalaria" <chris.cavalaria@free.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> I would like to know how you expect SDL_ttf to work without freetype ?
>> Also,
>
> You misunderstood something. I was perfectly aware that SDL_ttf is
> dependent on freetype. So I had to build that alien artifact, too.
> Annoying.

Annoying it may be, but that's the way it is. You don't expect SDL_ttf to
include a full copy of freetype do you ? After all, it is just a wrapper
around the freetype library itself.

>> I wonder why you bothered to build SDL yourself at all. Prebuilt binaries
>> for development use are available you know. Well, maybe they were
>> available
>> at the time you tested SDL :) 
>
> I use MinGW and IIRC only VC++ development binaries were available at that
> time and there are still no MinGW binaries for SDL_ttf.

True that, too bad too. Still, you could have converted the VC++ development
binaries for mingw, unless they use C++ in SDL_ttf ( which I don't think
it's the case )
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 3:33:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

copx wrote:
> I use MinGW and IIRC only VC++ development binaries were available at
that
> time and there are still no MinGW binaries for SDL_ttf.

Do you really need SDL_ttf? I did a font routine myself and it has
anti-alias, sort of:) 
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 9:12:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Tue, 03 May 2005 17:20:29 +1000, ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com> wrote:

>R. Dan Henry wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2005 21:42:07 +1000, ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>R. Dan Henry: 328 (5+10)
>>
>> blah blah blah blah blah
>>
>> At least you found some of it interesting.
>
>Yes thanks to you and everyone at rgrd who posts useful
>stuff! (And those that write RLs for free of course!)
>
>I find your itemising of element for a single idea so
>complete and useful that they are a must save! Your
>posts often stand alone within a thread (ie does not
>require context). You have done quite a lot in the
>past, not so much lately... They make ideal checklists
>for implementation surely!

Well, there hasn't been a good thread for that lately. Mostly, they've
been in response to threads with a lot of good ideas on the same
subject, drawing everything together (and adding my own touches), so
it would all be in one, organized, saveable post. Exceptions have been
the Roguelike "Terrain" list, which was inspired by, but didn't grow
directly out of another thread, and the Magic Systems checklist, which
was done pretty much on my own.

--
R. Dan Henry = danhenry@inreach.com
Idiot boy, when are you going to post something useful?
Or better yet, get a job and stop being a welfare bum?
Dance, Puppet, dance!
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 3:17:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Mon, 02 May 2005 11:42:07 GMT, ABCGi wrote:

....

> 60th
> Ash Ellis + sheepy = 15 + 3
> Paul Murray: 17 (2)
> Pfhoenix: 17
> Joseph Hewitt: 17 [deadcold] (+3)
> Martin Woodard: 16 [the tombs www.thetombs.com] (3)
> Lochok: 16
> Brent Ritchie: 16

> kostatus: 13 (+2)

Wow, I'm on your list and I'm not last.

And yeah, I'm still alive.

> erisdiscordia: 10 (2)
> NIm: 8


....



--
Kostatus
kostatus001 at ihug co nz
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 4:07:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

R. Dan Henry wrote:
> Well, there hasn't been a good thread for that lately. Mostly, they've
> been in response to threads with a lot of good ideas on the same
> subject, drawing everything together (and adding my own touches), so
> it would all be in one, organized, saveable post. Exceptions have been
> the Roguelike "Terrain" list, which was inspired by, but didn't grow
> directly out of another thread, and the Magic Systems checklist, which
> was done pretty much on my own.

[gratuitous insult snipped]

It's like diarrhea. You can't stop some from dribbling out even while
posting something that's otherwise on-topic, can you? Seek help.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 3:38:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Filip Dreger wrote:
>
> BTW: can anyone who is already married share his/her experience on
> 'how marriage influences writing RLs'?

There exist at least two roguelikes being actively developed solely by
married people, so there is no reason for despair.

Any long term relationship, of which marriage is the most legally
binding, is based on open communication. If your significant other can
understand the joy-of-creation that working on your roguelike can
bring, they will hopefully provide you with the moral support needed.

Writing roguelikes is like any other hobby. The trouble can be that,
unlike building model railroads, it can be hard to show the result of
your work in a way that is understandable to a non-participant.
Remember, you are not just "coding C++ code", but "creating a world".

Congratulations on your impending marriage! Remember: "You can be
right, or you can be happy."
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:38:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Uzytkownik "Christophe Cavalaria" <chris.cavalaria@free.fr> napisal w
wiadomosci news:427ce504$0$298$626a14ce@news.free.fr...
> Well, I don't understand what you are talking about here then. Do
> you want
> to staticaly link with the opengl lib ? You do know that it is
> impossible
> to do that because the OpenGL devenlopement model needs you to use
> the
> system opengl lib in order to get the hardware acceleration specific
> to the
> current system, do you ?

Yes, I do. I was talking about linking to dynamic libraries and not
being able to tell if they will exist on your client's machine. I
actually run into a problem like that with one of my Linux apps - and
know of many similar cases. Consider Skype - one of the binaries (and
the only one that works on some distributions) is the one that
actually has all the Qt statically linked... they wouldn't have
considered something so absurd, if they hadn't encountered problems
with dynamically linked version.

> Really, I have a hard time understanding your point about that.
> Games have
> been out in binary form for Linux for ages. I can still use the
> Quake 2
> binaries on my current system and it works. I can sill run vanilla
> UT. Pure
> OpenGL apps are the easiest apps to deliver in a binary form for
> Linux
> because you don't need to link to widget libs at all.

OK, I believe you. I used to think that the best solution are common
wrapper libraries (like SDL) that are carefuly prepared to work on the
given distro and serve as a single "entry point" for all the
multimedia stuff.

>> I find it hand to understand. Each and every library out there in
>> the
>> world can work in paralel with other libraries that are meant to
>> solve
>> different problems. I can, for example, use OpenGL to do 3D
>> graphics
>> in my ncurses application.
>
> Well, I would like to see how you do that one day :) 

In a second window, of course :-)

> Additional libraries are one the main design principle of SDL. And
> addon
> libraries most of the time can't work without the SDL itself so they
> are
> really plugins in a sense, not independent libraries with a common
> name.

It is not hard to make a library that _requires_ another one to run
:-)

> And in the end Allegro uses the same model than SDL when you
> consider all
> the missing features. Want OGG support ? use AllegroOGG. MP3 ?
> AllegroMP3
> is for you. Need TTF rendering ? AllegroFont is your solution.

I never needed any of those. And I think I see the real point behind
our argument, at least my own motivations behind it.
The point is - I don't like 'flexible solutions' and 'software easily
expandable with plug-ins'; the same way I don't like swiss-army
knives, and never used one. I know that sometimes I am wrong about it,
but each time I hear about "a flexible solution" I think "oh, its
flexible - so it does not really fit into what I am doing, but I can
sort of squeeze it in". That's what "flexible" means. On the other
hand I like good solutions - they are not flexible, but they do not
need to be - I don't have to change their shape, because they fit into
my design in the first place.
Allegro stroke me as 'a good solution'. I used in on DOS, Windows and
Linux, and I never had to do anything else than type 'make' to build
it; and never had to change a single line of my program to recompile
it; I never missed a feature, and was always able to make a
stand-alone, dependancy-free apps.
> I used the Allegro 3D library at the time of my trusty old 486 :)  I
> didn't
> have the time to make a lot out of it but it was neat. The problem
> is that
> nowadays, such library is only more bloat on Allegro.
Which is still not bigger than SDL :-)

> Man, it fells like someone comparing OpenGL with DirectX and saying
> OpenGL
> is bad because you can't do sound with it :/ 

Why do you think most games are written with DirectX?... well, because
OpenGL has no sound and no joystick support :-)

>> I am one of the people who can be proven wrong and understand when
>> they lose a discussion (I have already lost a point, I though
>> Allegro
>> had a Mac classic port, and it does not) - so maybe we can make a
>> little experiment? How about creating a really small, short demo
>> app
>> with SDL - showing off it's good sides, speed, and so on. I will
>> try
>> to duplicate it using Allegro. We will then compare some basic
>> parameters: ugliness of the code, ease of recompilation on another
>> platform, and so on. If Allegro comes out much worse, I will see
>> it.
>> So?
>
> Hey, why not. I'm the kind of person who works better with some time
> constraints than on free projects :) 
I still believe that all the gfx/sound of Allegro are superior/equal
to those of SDL - and I am waiting to be proved wrong; but we better
do it quick, in three weeks I'm getting married, and I think this will
seriously limit my hobby development time :-)
BTW: can anyone who is already married share his/her experience on
'how marriage influences writing RLs'?

regards,
Filip
--
Contrary to what some people say, my OS _is_ a lifestyle choice, not a
tool; however, I am against osizm
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:38:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Filip Dreger wrote:
> Uzytkownik "Christophe Cavalaria" <chris.cavalaria@free.fr> napisal w
> wiadomosci news:427ce504$0$298$626a14ce@news.free.fr...

<snip>

> Why do you think most games are written with DirectX?... well, because
> OpenGL has no sound and no joystick support :-)

No, it's because most developer's just don't know any better. ;-P

And that's a fact that's changing quickly nowadays. More and more
modern games are being made to use OpenGL, because more and more games
are striving for cross-platform compatibility.

<snip>

> I still believe that all the gfx/sound of Allegro are superior/equal
> to those of SDL - and I am waiting to be proved wrong; but we better
> do it quick, in three weeks I'm getting married, and I think this will
> seriously limit my hobby development time :-)

Congratulations, man!

> BTW: can anyone who is already married share his/her experience on
> 'how marriage influences writing RLs'?

I haven't gone down that road yet, but I'm pretty sure you won't be
having a whole lot of free time on your hands. ;-P

Seriously, though, congratulations. Best of wishes to you.


--
"There are of course many problems connected with life, of
which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
`Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

-- The Book.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 12:13:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

R. Dan Henry wrote:
> On Tue, 03 May 2005 17:20:29 +1000, ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>R. Dan Henry wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 02 May 2005 21:42:07 +1000, ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>R. Dan Henry: 328 (5+10)
>>>
>>>blah blah blah blah blah
>>>
>>>At least you found some of it interesting.
>>
>>Yes thanks to you and everyone at rgrd who posts useful
>>stuff! (And those that write RLs for free of course!)
>>
>>I find your itemising of element for a single idea so
>>complete and useful that they are a must save! Your
>>posts often stand alone within a thread (ie does not
>>require context). You have done quite a lot in the
>>past, not so much lately... They make ideal checklists
>>for implementation surely!
>
> Well, there hasn't been a good thread for that lately. Mostly, they've
> been in response to threads with a lot of good ideas on the same
> subject, drawing everything together (and adding my own touches), so
> it would all be in one, organized, saveable post. Exceptions have been
> the Roguelike "Terrain" list, which was inspired by, but didn't grow
> directly out of another thread, and the Magic Systems checklist, which
> was done pretty much on my own.

And a lot of flammage/baiting/anti-flammage/flameguides etc ;) 

I have both those lists and look forward to using them!

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 12:34:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kostatus wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2005 11:42:07 GMT, ABCGi wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>60th
>>Ash Ellis + sheepy = 15 + 3
>>Paul Murray: 17 (2)
>>Pfhoenix: 17
>>Joseph Hewitt: 17 [deadcold] (+3)
>>Martin Woodard: 16 [the tombs www.thetombs.com] (3)
>>Lochok: 16
>>Brent Ritchie: 16
>
>>kostatus: 13 (+2)
>
> Wow, I'm on your list and I'm not last.
>
> And yeah, I'm still alive.

Good :) 

Saved your survey and rl dev code posts in
times past...

<quote>
Question 3.
Do you have MS Windows installed on any of your PCs?

Windows installed - 74%
No Windows - 26%
</quote>

>>erisdiscordia: 10 (2)
>>NIm: 8
>
> ...


--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:39:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Filip Dreger wrote:

> Uzytkownik "Christophe Cavalaria" <chris.cavalaria@free.fr> napisal w
> wiadomosci news:427ce504$0$298$626a14ce@news.free.fr...
>> Well, I don't understand what you are talking about here then. Do
>> you want
>> to staticaly link with the opengl lib ? You do know that it is
>> impossible
>> to do that because the OpenGL devenlopement model needs you to use
>> the
>> system opengl lib in order to get the hardware acceleration specific
>> to the
>> current system, do you ?
>
> Yes, I do. I was talking about linking to dynamic libraries and not
> being able to tell if they will exist on your client's machine. I
> actually run into a problem like that with one of my Linux apps - and
> know of many similar cases. Consider Skype - one of the binaries (and
> the only one that works on some distributions) is the one that
> actually has all the Qt statically linked... they wouldn't have
> considered something so absurd, if they hadn't encountered problems
> with dynamically linked version.

Well, it isn't really absurd when you think about it. Until the LSB is
expanded and implemented, it's the best thing to do. Though, the really
best they could have done would be to link dynamicaly with libQT and
provide at the same time the lib itself like UT2004 does with the libSDL.

>> Really, I have a hard time understanding your point about that.
>> Games have
>> been out in binary form for Linux for ages. I can still use the
>> Quake 2
>> binaries on my current system and it works. I can sill run vanilla
>> UT. Pure
>> OpenGL apps are the easiest apps to deliver in a binary form for
>> Linux
>> because you don't need to link to widget libs at all.
>
> OK, I believe you. I used to think that the best solution are common
> wrapper libraries (like SDL) that are carefuly prepared to work on the
> given distro and serve as a single "entry point" for all the
> multimedia stuff.

SDL works great for that with each release beeing really consistent API-wise
with the previous. It's just that packagers don't want to bother and really
don't need to bother, unless they start packaging specific distro binaries.
Also, since the libSDL is LGPL, you can always replace it yourself with
something else :)  I did that with NWN for some added features ( horrible
hack to add a fullscreen/windowed mode key toggle :)  ) And I replaced the
OpenAL in UT2004 to get hardware accelerated sound support for better
performance. But you don't really need to do that.

libQT on the other hand would probably pose more problems than it's worth
because I expect a lot of linux users out there don't install it anyway
( stupid Gnome lovers :)  )

>> And in the end Allegro uses the same model than SDL when you
>> consider all
>> the missing features. Want OGG support ? use AllegroOGG. MP3 ?
>> AllegroMP3
>> is for you. Need TTF rendering ? AllegroFont is your solution.
>
> I never needed any of those.

Not even for the sound ? Well, maybe you didn't have a project with enouth
music yet :) 

> And I think I see the real point behind
> our argument, at least my own motivations behind it.
> The point is - I don't like 'flexible solutions' and 'software easily
> expandable with plug-ins'; the same way I don't like swiss-army
> knives, and never used one.

I think that Allegro is much closer to be a swiss-army knife than SDL.

> I know that sometimes I am wrong about it,
> but each time I hear about "a flexible solution" I think "oh, its
> flexible - so it does not really fit into what I am doing, but I can
> sort of squeeze it in". That's what "flexible" means. On the other
> hand I like good solutions - they are not flexible, but they do not
> need to be - I don't have to change their shape, because they fit into
> my design in the first place.
> Allegro stroke me as 'a good solution'. I used in on DOS, Windows and
> Linux, and I never had to do anything else than type 'make' to build
> it; and never had to change a single line of my program to recompile
> it; I never missed a feature, and was always able to make a
> stand-alone, dependancy-free apps.

Myself, it would pain me without PNG and OGG support. TTF I could do without
but for a 3D application, scalable font support is a must.

>> I used the Allegro 3D library at the time of my trusty old 486 :)  I
>> didn't
>> have the time to make a lot out of it but it was neat. The problem
>> is that
>> nowadays, such library is only more bloat on Allegro.
> Which is still not bigger than SDL :-)

Well, on my system, the SDL binaries package is much smaller than the
Allegro one : 222kB for libSDL, 400kB for Allegro. Also, counting all the
SDL addon libs available it is only slightly bigger because of SDL_mixer.

But that last one already does more than Allegro can with MP3 and OGG
support and a software midi synthetiser.

>> Man, it fells like someone comparing OpenGL with DirectX and saying
>> OpenGL
>> is bad because you can't do sound with it :/ 
>
> Why do you think most games are written with DirectX?... well, because
> OpenGL has no sound and no joystick support :-)

Programers preference. Direct3D is a completly independent part of DirectX
and most good game developers have considered using OpenGL instead of that
one, despite using the other DirectX pieces :) 

>>> I am one of the people who can be proven wrong and understand when
>>> they lose a discussion (I have already lost a point, I though
>>> Allegro
>>> had a Mac classic port, and it does not) - so maybe we can make a
>>> little experiment? How about creating a really small, short demo
>>> app
>>> with SDL - showing off it's good sides, speed, and so on. I will
>>> try
>>> to duplicate it using Allegro. We will then compare some basic
>>> parameters: ugliness of the code, ease of recompilation on another
>>> platform, and so on. If Allegro comes out much worse, I will see
>>> it.
>>> So?
>>
>> Hey, why not. I'm the kind of person who works better with some time
>> constraints than on free projects :) 
> I still believe that all the gfx/sound of Allegro are superior/equal
> to those of SDL - and I am waiting to be proved wrong; but we better
> do it quick, in three weeks I'm getting married, and I think this will
> seriously limit my hobby development time :-)

Congrats !

> BTW: can anyone who is already married share his/her experience on
> 'how marriage influences writing RLs'?

All my friends that got married had more or less the same life before and
after anyway. I have no direct experience here then but my guess would be
that might not affect your time too much. Maybe there will be a somewhat
chaotic period at first though.








Of course, all of that will change when the first baby is born :) 
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 6:31:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Filip Dreger wrote:
> do it quick, in three weeks I'm getting married, and I think this will
> seriously limit my hobby development time :-)

Congratulations! Now you will be able to fully enjoy your life in
chai... eeee... peace? ;-D

> BTW: can anyone who is already married share his/her experience on
> 'how marriage influences writing RLs'?

It's not the marriage that affects RL-dev. It's living together:

"You'd do something useful instead of playing around with those stupid
letters!"
"Choose! The @ or me!"
"A project? How much will you get for it?"
"You mean these all years you've spent on something that wont make any
money???"
"You're cheating on me! Last night you were calling her name through
your sleep -- "Aski...""

--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Due to Pascal's original purpose as a teaching language it forces one
to learn good habits - and those good habits stay with you, even when
you later migrate to a much more forgiving language." - Sherm Pendley
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 6:33:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Christophe Cavalaria wrote:
> But that last one already does more than Allegro can with MP3 and OGG
> support and a software midi synthetiser.

SLD_mixer has a software midi synthesizer??? Does it work on linux too?
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Well, the philosophy of the World of Shadows is based on most of the
degenerate, immoral and foremost amoral philosophical beliefs of our
world exagarated to the maximum." --Anubis
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 6:49:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:

> Christophe Cavalaria wrote:
>
>> But that last one already does more than Allegro can with MP3 and OGG
>> support and a software midi synthetiser.
>
>
> SLD_mixer has a software midi synthesizer??? Does it work on linux too?

Well, looking at the SDL_mixer homepage they say they use an old timidiy
version for midi playback so yes, I expect it to work anywhere. And if
you pack in the wav table they give, it'll also sound the same everywhere :) 



SDL_mixer 1.2

Timidity:
Mixer supports playing MIDI format files using software wavetable
via an old version of timidity. This requires you to have a GUS
compatible set of sound patches on your system. By default, the library
looks for these patches on Win32 in C:\timidity, and on UNIX in
/usr/local/lib/timidity/.
A freely redistributable set of GUS compatible patches: timidity.tar.gz
(14 MB)
A set of sample MIDI songs, origin unknown: bestmid3.tar.gz (1.3 MB)
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 4:40:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Christophe Cavalaria wrote:
> Well, it isn't really absurd when you think about it. Until the LSB is
> expanded and implemented, it's the best thing to do. Though, the really
> best they could have done would be to link dynamicaly with libQT and
> provide at the same time the lib itself like UT2004 does with the libSDL.

LSB?

> All my friends that got married had more or less the same life before and
> after anyway. I have no direct experience here then but my guess would be
> that might not affect your time too much. Maybe there will be a somewhat
> chaotic period at first though.

That is known in the technical parlance as the "honeymoon".

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 4:42:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Christophe wrote:
>> SLD_mixer has a software midi synthesizer??? Does it work on linux too?
>
> Well, looking at the SDL_mixer homepage they say they use an old timidiy
> version for midi playback so yes, I expect it to work anywhere. And if
> you pack in the wav table they give, it'll also sound the same
> everywhere :) 

And meanwhile, LSD_mixer continues to have only one function:
"attempt_to_escape_from_prison". ;) 

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:14:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Christophe Cavalaria wrote:
>
>> Well, it isn't really absurd when you think about it. Until the LSB is
>> expanded and implemented, it's the best thing to do. Though, the really
>> best they could have done would be to link dynamicaly with libQT and
>> provide at the same time the lib itself like UT2004 does with the libSDL.
>
>
> LSB?

Google turns up several alternatives: It might be a stock symbol used on
AMEX. It might be the Linux Standard Base. It might be LSB The Bank, or
Large Scale Biology Corporation. It might have something to do with the
Oklahoma Legislature, or the Leakey Foundation.

Of these various alternatives, I'd say that "Linux Standard Base" is the
most likely the correct interpretation in this context. However, I'm not
100% certain of that, as such certainty would require psychic powers I
don't have.

As we all know, anything less than 100% certainty is utterly useless. So
we are forced to completely disregard the Google results. I guess we'll
just never know what Christophe might have meant, unless he chooses to
spell it out for us.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:38:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Sherm Pendley wrote:
> Twisted One wrote:
>
>> Christophe Cavalaria wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it isn't really absurd when you think about it. Until the LSB is
>>> expanded and implemented, it's the best thing to do. Though, the really
>>> best they could have done would be to link dynamicaly with libQT and
>>> provide at the same time the lib itself like UT2004 does with the
>>> libSDL.
>>
>> LSB?
>
> Google turns up several alternatives: It might be a stock symbol used on
> AMEX. It might be the Linux Standard Base. It might be LSB The Bank, or
> Large Scale Biology Corporation. It might have something to do with the
> Oklahoma Legislature, or the Leakey Foundation.
>
> Of these various alternatives, I'd say that "Linux Standard Base" is the
> most likely the correct interpretation in this context. However, I'm not
> 100% certain of that, as such certainty would require psychic powers I
> don't have.

This makes sense.

> As we all know, anything less than 100% certainty is utterly useless. So
> we are forced to completely disregard the Google results. I guess we'll
> just never know what Christophe might have meant, unless he chooses to
> spell it out for us.

This doesn't follow at all, though. However, clarification by the OP
would be useful, since in an acronym-rich area like computing there's
bound to be more than one meaning for a short one like LSB, and there's
no guarantee of even the mighty Google finding all of them.

Of course there's also the matter of elaboration -- what exactly the LSB
is, beyond the matter of what words the letters stand for, in a brief
precis form. A bunch of technical documents returned from a Google
search that all assume you already know the basics of whatever LSB they
discuss won't be very helpful to someone utterly unfamiliar with the
term in getting a basic understanding of its meaning and relevance in a
particular context. Humans are very good at making quick synopses of
things like this; computers are very bad at that (or at separating
synopses out from other uses of a term in a search result list).

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:17:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:

> Of course there's also the matter of elaboration -- what exactly the LSB
> is, beyond the matter of what words the letters stand for, in a brief
> precis form. A bunch of technical documents returned from a Google
> search that all assume you already know the basics of whatever LSB they
> discuss won't be very helpful

Yep, you're right.

Maybe Google should implement a page-ranking system that takes into
account the number of links to a given page. That way, the main LSB
project page that's referenced by all those technical documents would be
displayed first.

I really wish they'd do that - it would be *so* much more useful than
the random ordering they use right now.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:14:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Sherm Pendley wrote:
> Twisted One wrote:
>
>> Of course there's also the matter of elaboration -- what exactly the
>> LSB is, beyond the matter of what words the letters stand for, in a
>> brief precis form. A bunch of technical documents returned from a
>> Google search that all assume you already know the basics of whatever
>> LSB they discuss won't be very helpful
>
> Yep, you're right.
>
> Maybe Google should implement a page-ranking system that takes into
> account the number of links to a given page. That way, the main LSB
> project page that's referenced by all those technical documents would be
> displayed first.
>
> I really wish they'd do that - it would be *so* much more useful than
> the random ordering they use right now.

What are you blithering about? They don't use random ordering -- no
search engine has since the 1970s or thereabouts. And Google does use
link density as well as word occurrence, last I checked. What it can't
do is read pages about a subject, figure out what they are talking
about, and construct a brief summary of the subject. Or even tell a
pre-existing brief summary from any other sort of page about the
subject. All it can tell is popular pages about the subject and
unpopular, and pages more about the subject and pages less about it.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 2:39:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>> Yep, you're right.
>>
>> Maybe Google should implement a page-ranking system that takes into
>> account the number of links to a given page. That way, the main LSB
>> project page that's referenced by all those technical documents would
>> be displayed first.
>>
>> I really wish they'd do that - it would be *so* much more useful than
>> the random ordering they use right now.
>
>
> What are you blithering about? They don't use random ordering -- no
> search engine has since the 1970s or thereabouts. And Google does use
> link density as well as word occurrence, last I checked. What it can't
> do is read pages about a subject, figure out what they are talking
> about, and construct a brief summary of the subject. Or even tell a
> pre-existing brief summary from any other sort of page about the
> subject. All it can tell is popular pages about the subject and
> unpopular, and pages more about the subject and pages less about it.

This just made me laugh. Um, Neo, I think he's being sarcastic. Just
thought I'd mention that, since you didn't seem to notice.



--
"There are of course many problems connected with life, of
which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
`Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

-- The Book.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:30:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Jeff Lait" <torespondisfutile@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115577513.337126.295760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Filip Dreger wrote:
>>
>> BTW: can anyone who is already married share his/her experience on
>> 'how marriage influences writing RLs'?
>
> There exist at least two roguelikes being actively developed solely by
> married people, so there is no reason for despair.
>

I may sound dumb for saying this...but which two?

> Any long term relationship, of which marriage is the most legally
> binding, is based on open communication. If your significant other can
> understand the joy-of-creation that working on your roguelike can
> bring, they will hopefully provide you with the moral support needed.
>

This is not usually the case; but what I do find is that writing the
roguelike is a usefuly activity for you when she would like a little space,
or to do her own thing: say read a book, go out with a bunch of
girl(friends), or whatever.

> Writing roguelikes is like any other hobby. The trouble can be that,
> unlike building model railroads, it can be hard to show the result of
> your work in a way that is understandable to a non-participant.
> Remember, you are not just "coding C++ code", but "creating a world".
>

The trouble is, if you explain that to most people they will think you are
an egotist.

> Congratulations on your impending marriage! Remember: "You can be
> right, or you can be happy."

This statement, I must say, is excellent advice.

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:23:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Uzytkownik "Jeff Lait" <torespondisfutile@hotmail.com> napisal w
wiadomosci
news:1115577513.337126.295760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> Congratulations on your impending marriage! Remember: "You can be
> right, or you can be happy."

Great motto, thanks. And it even works on Usenet!

regards,
Filip
--
Contrary to what some people say, my OS _is_ a lifestyle choice, not a
tool; however, I am against osizm
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