Roguebasin logo

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I made a very simple logo to replace that default flower in the
roguebasin. Not sure where to post it, so I post it here.

http://sheep.prv./misc/basin.svg

How about other also make their logos and then we can choose
the best one?
--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
79 answers Last reply
More about roguebasin logo
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    > http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg

    Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
    new XP doesn't seem to support it.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Dnia Mon, 9 May 2005 15:22:07 +0000 (UTC),
    The Sheep napisal(a):

    > I made a very simple logo to replace that default flower in the
    > roguebasin. Not sure where to post it, so I post it here.
    >
    > http://sheep.prv./misc/basin.svg
    >
    > How about other also make their logos and then we can choose
    > the best one?

    It should be:

    http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg

    offcourse, my mistake :(

    --
    Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
    `The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
    Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
    > The Sheep wrote:
    >> http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
    >
    > Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
    > new XP doesn't seem to support it.

    Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively, and the Adobe
    SVG viewer v6.0 plugin doesn't seem to do anything on either browser;
    they just display as raw XML. I hear that Firefox v1.1 is supposed to
    support SVG natively, but I don't know whether the nightly builds
    would have it yet or not, and I don't feel like trying. Post a link
    to a PNG or JPEG, please. (Or PDF, which is a vector format, as I
    assume SVG is --- otherwise what advantage would it have? :)

    -Arthur
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    You can download the SVG file and open it with illustration software
    like Inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org), which is an excellent open
    source and multiplatform program that uses SVG as its primary format.

    The SVG file is meant for editing, as "source code" that can be
    rendered into images of various sizes and formats.

    Lorenzo Gatti
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Krice wrote:
    > The Sheep wrote:
    >
    >>http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
    >
    > Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
    > new XP doesn't seem to support it.

    http://svg.org/

    Its XML for vector graphics... ie a text file with
    tags describing 2d vector graphics.

    --
    ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
    Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
    DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
    Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    > A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.

    That comment is driving me nuts. It's so not true. Jpgs can be used
    for logos or anything when the packing setting is 70-100. After 70
    the artifacts are reduced so you wont be able to see them unless you
    zoom the pic or look really close.
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    > Jpeg is good for photos, but not for artwork.

    Don't play stupid. Of course you don't use jpg when you create the
    artwork, but some unpacked image format. It's then saved as jpg
    and placed on the web page. 99.999% of people do that, but this one
    *** is using svg...
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
    >
    > On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
    >
    >> The Sheep wrote:
    >>
    >>> http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
    >>
    >> Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
    >> new XP doesn't seem to support it.
    >
    > Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively, and the Adobe
    > SVG viewer v6.0 plugin doesn't seem to do anything on either browser;
    > they just display as raw XML. I hear that Firefox v1.1 is supposed to
    > support SVG natively, but I don't know whether the nightly builds
    > would have it yet or not, and I don't feel like trying. Post a link
    > to a PNG or JPEG, please. (Or PDF, which is a vector format, as I
    > assume SVG is --- otherwise what advantage would it have? :)
    >
    > -Arthur

    It is in the nightly builds apparently.

    How is it different from/better than VML?
    - Vector Markup Language which works in IE
    http://abcgi.fly.to/noughties (IE only VML)

    Besides that it only works on IE! :9|

    --
    ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
    Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
    DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
    Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    ABCGi wrote:
    > Besides that it only works on IE! :9|

    Isn't that bad enough? It's so dangerous to go anywhere other than
    Windows Update with IE that they should ticket people who do that, just
    like they do people who drive with no seatbelt on, all indicators and
    headlight bulbs nonfunctional, and all 3 mirrors snapped off.

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Dnia Mon, 9 May 2005 11:55:36 -0400 (EDT),
    Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):

    >
    > On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
    >> The Sheep wrote:
    >>> http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
    >> Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
    >> new XP doesn't seem to support it.
    > Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively

    You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
    functionality for properly viewing images ;)

    Download it instead and use your favorite image viewer/editor to
    see it.

    I created it using Inkscape (a free vector graphics editor), but the
    format is also supported by The Gimp (a free bitmap graphics editor),
    and probably many graphics viewers. It's also supported on linux natively
    (it's becoming a standard format for icons).

    A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.
    Gif has too small palette.
    Png is not supported in all browsers properly anyways, and it doesn't
    rescale so nicely. Plus, it would be several orders of magnitude bigger.

    --
    Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
    `The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
    Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    > A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.
    > Gif has too small palette.
    > Png is not supported in all browsers properly anyways, and it doesn't
    > rescale so nicely. Plus, it would be several orders of magnitude bigger.

    But it would actually work. The svg file will not be viewable as
    anything but text on any Windows or Mac system. (At least, none of the
    stuff on my system recognizes the format -- including Corel Photo-Paint
    and Corel Draw, as well as MSPaint.) If it's not going to be viewable
    using free/commonly installed software on the most common platform,
    you're excluding 99% of your audience from the get-go.

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Dnia 10 May 2005 02:05:01 -0700,
    Krice napisal(a):

    > The Sheep wrote:
    >> A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.

    > That comment is driving me nuts. It's so not true. Jpgs can be used
    > for logos or anything when the packing setting is 70-100. After 70
    > the artifacts are reduced so you wont be able to see them unless you
    > zoom the pic or look really close.

    Or you apply some filter to it, or play with the palette, or distort
    it, or do anything fancy.

    Jpeg is good for photos, but not for artwork.
    It's acceptable to store the end result of your work -- human eye won't
    see the effects of compression.

    But it's not good for intermediate steps, as the 'dirt' will add up
    and get amplified by various transformations.

    --
    Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
    `The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
    Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Dnia 10 May 2005 02:29:51 -0700,
    Krice napisal(a):

    > The Sheep wrote:
    >> Jpeg is good for photos, but not for artwork.
    > Don't play stupid. Of course you don't use jpg when you create the
    > artwork, but some unpacked image format. It's then saved as jpg
    > and placed on the web page. 99.999% of people do that, but this one
    > *** is using svg...

    s/\*\*\*/The Sheep/

    Anyways, I'm using svg because I assume the logo would have to be further
    processed (a shadow added, for example) before it can be used on the page.

    The idea with logo contest popped to my mind when I already posted the svg
    file. Offcourse, for the contest there should be easy to view, preview
    versions, preferably put on some site with thumbnailed index, etc.

    Offcourse, original work would have to be kept, in order to use it on the
    page.

    --
    Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
    `The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
    Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    On Tue, 10 May 2005, Twisted One wrote:

    > Isn't that bad enough? It's so dangerous to go anywhere other than
    > Windows Update with IE that they should ticket people who do that, just
    > like they do people who drive with no seatbelt on, all indicators and
    > headlight bulbs nonfunctional, and all 3 mirrors snapped off.

    You should run for public office. Then maybe your ideas could be
    implemented.
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    > Dnia Mon, 9 May 2005 11:55:36 -0400 (EDT),
    > Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):
    >
    >
    >>On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
    >>
    >>>The Sheep wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
    >>>
    >>>Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
    >>>new XP doesn't seem to support it.
    >>
    >> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively
    >
    >
    > You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
    > functionality for properly viewing images ;)
    >
    > Download it instead and use your favorite image viewer/editor to
    > see it.
    >
    > I created it using Inkscape (a free vector graphics editor), but the
    > format is also supported by The Gimp (a free bitmap graphics editor),
    > and probably many graphics viewers. It's also supported on linux natively
    > (it's becoming a standard format for icons).
    >
    > A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.
    > Gif has too small palette.
    > Png is not supported in all browsers properly anyways, and it doesn't
    > rescale so nicely. Plus, it would be several orders of magnitude bigger.

    Except for the Alpha channel in the PNG which isn't supported by all
    browser, I would be happy to see a browser that can't display png files
    at all.

    Too bad that some browsers can't handle tha alpha channel. It was one of
    the killer features of the png format that neither GIF nor JPEG had :/
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    > I made a very simple logo to replace that default flower in the
    > roguebasin. Not sure where to post it, so I post it here.
    >
    > http://sheep.prv./misc/basin.svg
    >
    > How about other also make their logos and then we can choose
    > the best one?

    Here were the ones I made a long time ago... never posted them... they
    need some finishing touches tough ;-)

    http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
    http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
    http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
    http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
    http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
    http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg
    --
    At your service,
    Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
    "Shadows universe is non-heroic, unfair, cruel and designed to
    start playing on your nerves and sanity." -- Anubis
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::

    > Here were the ones I made a long time ago... never posted them... they
    > need some finishing touches tough ;-)
    >
    > http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
    > http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
    > http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
    > http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
    > http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
    > http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg

    My favorite is no. 2

    --
    c.u. Hajo
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    On Tue, 10 May 2005, Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
    > Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::
    >>
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg
    >
    > My favorite is no. 2

    I am of the same opinion. #2 is the most "busy" of any of the images,
    and I think that's a good thing. The white highlight on the upper left
    of the '@' looks a little weird, though, against the white background;
    maybe the light source should be red or green? And surely there should
    be a place to put the text "RogueBasin" or something in the image.

    (Cross-thread: IrfanView doesn't read SVG, either; I forget if anyone's
    said that yet or not. Besides, wouldn't it make more sense to use POVRay
    as "the" source format for these logos? And I don't think anyone would
    try to post links to POVRay sources with the assumption that everyone
    could see them! Conclusion: PNG and JPEG are nice when you want people
    to see your stuff; any other format might be okay for a "master copy"
    but won't be visible to most people.)

    -Arthur
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
    > Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::
    >
    >> Here were the ones I made a long time ago... never posted them... they
    >> need some finishing touches tough ;-)
    >>
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
    >> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg
    >
    > My favorite is no. 2

    Yeah, it's the most "finished" one. The idea is of showing an AT-sign
    being builded from blocks ;-)
    --
    At your service,
    Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
    "Shadows universe is non-heroic, unfair, cruel and designed to
    start playing on your nerves and sanity." -- Anubis
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    > Dnia Mon, 9 May 2005 11:55:36 -0400 (EDT),
    > Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):
    >
    >>On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
    >>
    >>>The Sheep wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
    >>>
    >>>Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
    >>>new XP doesn't seem to support it.
    >>
    >> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively
    >
    > You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
    > functionality for properly viewing images ;)

    Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
    viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
    this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*

    Is it because you didn't create the file in the
    same format Adobe is expecting?

    > Download it instead and use your favorite image viewer/editor to
    > see it.
    >
    > I created it using Inkscape (a free vector graphics editor), but the
    > format is also supported by The Gimp (a free bitmap graphics editor),
    > and probably many graphics viewers. It's also supported on linux natively
    > (it's becoming a standard format for icons).
    >
    > A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.
    > Gif has too small palette.
    > Png is not supported in all browsers properly anyways, and it doesn't
    > rescale so nicely. Plus, it would be several orders of magnitude bigger.

    Yes they are much smaller, like windows meta files
    or VML (Vector Markup Language).

    Except now the file is not there. ????

    --
    ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
    Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
    DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
    Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
    ABCGi napisal(a):

    > The Sheep wrote:
    >> You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
    >> functionality for properly viewing images ;)
    >
    > Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
    > viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
    > this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*

    I meant it doesn't have basic functionality for viewing any images.
    Rotating, scaling, slideshows, etc.

    > Is it because you didn't create the file in the
    > same format Adobe is expecting?

    It's plain SVG. No extensions.

    > Except now the file is not there. ????

    Works for me.
    Maybe try directly from
    http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.svg
    sheep.prv.pl is a virtual, maybe it's screwed up.

    --
    Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
    `The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
    Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    >>>You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
    >>>functionality for properly viewing images ;)
    >>
    >>Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
    >>viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
    >>this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*
    >
    >
    > I meant it doesn't have basic functionality for viewing any images.
    > Rotating, scaling, slideshows, etc.

    Most browsers can scale images these days. Anyway, what's the point in
    putting an image on a Web page that won't display in most browsers at
    all and, worse, has to be downloaded and viewed offline *using obscure
    software nobody knows about*? (or knows how to use) (The gimp, that ink
    thing -- never heard of the latter before today and tons of people have
    never heard of either I'm sure -- and the gimp, at least, is just about
    unusable without some sort of wizardly knowledge obtained, I guess,
    through source diving, or else tutoring by an established master.)

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 08:36:58 +0000 (UTC),
    The Sheep napisal(a):

    > Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
    > ABCGi napisal(a):

    >> The Sheep wrote:

    >>> You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
    >>> functionality for properly viewing images ;)
    >> Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
    >> viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
    >> this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*

    I made a preview png file, available at
    http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.png

    --
    Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
    `The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
    Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:

    > Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 08:36:58 +0000 (UTC),
    > The Sheep napisal(a):
    >
    >
    >>Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
    >> ABCGi napisal(a):
    >
    >
    >>>The Sheep wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>>You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
    >>>>functionality for properly viewing images ;)
    >>>
    >>>Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
    >>>viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
    >>>this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*
    >
    >
    > I made a preview png file, available at
    > http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.png

    Looks very good :)

    Funny, I used konqueror at home to see the page and now I know it
    worked, somewhat. All I got was a black on white @ :)
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Twisted One wrote:
    > Most browsers can scale images these days. Anyway, what's the point in
    > putting an image on a Web page that won't display in most browsers at
    > all and, worse, has to be downloaded and viewed offline *using obscure
    > software nobody knows about*? (or knows how to use) (The gimp, that ink
    > thing -- never heard of the latter before today and tons of people have
    > never heard of either I'm sure -- and the gimp, at least, is just about
    > unusable without some sort of wizardly knowledge obtained, I guess,
    > through source diving, or else tutoring by an established master.)

    Oh, come on. The gimp does not require any wizardly knowledge to use.
    It has the same kind of learning curve as Photoshop, or any similar
    high-end graphics tool. My brother was completely unfamiliar with any
    of these tools, but he was able to draw a little and play around in
    the gimp right away. The only thing he couldn't do was some of the
    layer manipulation stuff, which he was able to learn through a simple
    tutorial in no time at all.


    --
    "There are of course many problems connected with life, of
    which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
    `Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
    intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

    -- The Book.
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 11:43:49 +0200,
    Christophe napisal(a):

    > The Sheep wrote:
    >> I made a preview png file, available at
    >> http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.png
    > Looks very good :)

    Thanks. It's a simple effect I copied from that smileys advertised
    all over the web.

    > Funny, I used konqueror at home to see the page and now I know it
    > worked, somewhat. All I got was a black on white @ :)

    That's the power of XML -- all unknown tags were ignored ;)

    --
    Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
    `The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
    Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Timothy Pruett wrote:
    >
    > Oh, come on. The gimp does not require any wizardly knowledge to use.
    > It has the same kind of learning curve as Photoshop, or any similar
    > high-end graphics tool.

    That's a pretty damn steep curve though.

    > My brother was completely unfamiliar with any of these tools

    That might well have been to his advantage. The problem that a lot of
    folks have with the GIMP's interface is that they've invested a great
    deal of time and effort into learning the "Adobe Way". They'd have to do
    a lot of that all over again to learn the "GIMP Way".

    To some, the GNU principles of "software freedom" justify the effort. To
    others, the only difference is the price tag, and the time required to
    adapt more than eats up any savings in that regard.

    sherm--

    --
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
    Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 12:15:45 -0400 (EDT),
    Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):

    > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
    >> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::

    > (Cross-thread: IrfanView doesn't read SVG, either; I forget if anyone's
    > said that yet or not. Besides, wouldn't it make more sense to use POVRay
    > as "the" source format for these logos? And I don't think anyone would
    > try to post links to POVRay sources with the assumption that everyone
    > could see them! Conclusion: PNG and JPEG are nice when you want people
    > to see your stuff; any other format might be okay for a "master copy"
    > but won't be visible to most people.)

    I already said that I didn't think about having people see it while
    posting the .svg file. I'd email it directly to the person in charge of
    putting the logo, if I knew who it was and what was his e-mail
    (Shoudn't there be link in the roguebasin 'contact' section?).

    Sorry for the delay in posting the .png preview.

    --
    Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
    `The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
    Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    > Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
    > ABCGi napisal(a):
    >
    >>The Sheep wrote:
    >>
    >>>You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
    >>>functionality for properly viewing images ;)
    >>
    >>Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
    >>viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
    >>this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*
    >
    > I meant it doesn't have basic functionality for viewing any images.
    > Rotating, scaling, slideshows, etc.
    >
    >>Is it because you didn't create the file in the
    >>same format Adobe is expecting?
    >
    > It's plain SVG. No extensions.
    >
    >>Except now the file is not there. ????
    >
    > Works for me.
    > Maybe try directly from
    > http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.svg
    > sheep.prv.pl is a virtual, maybe it's screwed up.

    Yeah thats better - Adobe's plugin is screwed trying
    to open that file anyway - totally balistic opening lots
    of windows.

    But with an emerging format you could also provide
    a screen capture I think... for those not "SVG ready"

    I'll try this inkscape bizo (worked = nice)
    - it certainly doesn't work in any normal windows
    graphic app that i've got - not having the gimp.

    --
    ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
    Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
    DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
    Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
    > I am of the same opinion. #2 is the most "busy" of any of the images,
    > and I think that's a good thing. The white highlight on the upper left
    > of the '@' looks a little weird, though, against the white background;
    > maybe the light source should be red or green? And surely there should
    > be a place to put the text "RogueBasin" or something in the image.

    No problem -- I'll correct all these problems if the people decide to
    use it. As for at1 I would opt to "watermark" it, blur, and use as a
    background for the pages -- instead of that book-thingy.

    > could see them! Conclusion: PNG and JPEG are nice when you want people
    > to see your stuff; any other format might be okay for a "master copy"
    > but won't be visible to most people.)

    Don't forget about GIF ;-D
    --
    At your service,
    Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
    "Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and
    restart body."
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    My least favorite stalker wrote:
    [snip lies and deceit]

    Please go away.

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Timothy Pruett wrote:
    > Oh, come on. The gimp does not require any wizardly knowledge to use.
    > It has the same kind of learning curve as Photoshop, or any similar
    > high-end graphics tool. My brother was completely unfamiliar with any
    > of these tools, but he was able to draw a little and play around in the
    > gimp right away. The only thing he couldn't do was some of the layer
    > manipulation stuff, which he was able to learn through a simple tutorial
    > in no time at all.

    There's a tutorial? Since when???

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Sherm Pendley wrote:
    > To some, the GNU principles of "software freedom" justify the effort. To
    > others, the only difference is the price tag, and the time required to
    > adapt more than eats up any savings in that regard.

    Except that now photoshop (and acrobat, the pdf maker app) have product
    activation evilness and stuff there's a large hidden cost in addition to
    the obvious price tag to using Adobe products, and it's no doubt related
    to that large hidden pentagram about which the major shareholders of
    Adobe hold strange rituals before each new version's release.

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Twisted One wrote:
    > Timothy Pruett wrote:
    >
    >> Oh, come on. The gimp does not require any wizardly knowledge to use.
    >> It has the same kind of learning curve as Photoshop, or any similar
    >> high-end graphics tool. My brother was completely unfamiliar with any
    >> of these tools, but he was able to draw a little and play around in
    >> the gimp right away. The only thing he couldn't do was some of the
    >> layer manipulation stuff, which he was able to learn through a simple
    >> tutorial in no time at all.
    >
    >
    > There's a tutorial? Since when???

    ....since always. There's no shortage of great tutorials for pretty
    much every program/language/tool. A five second google search turned
    up plenty of great tutorials for the gimp, and going directly to the
    gimp homepage turned up a huge amount of outstanding tutorials, for
    every possible need, from beginner to advanced. Most of them are
    well-written, concise, and informative. Give them a look sometime.


    --
    "There are of course many problems connected with life, of
    which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
    `Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
    intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

    -- The Book.
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Timothy Pruett wrote:
    [The GIMP]
    >> There's a tutorial? Since when???
    >
    > ...since always. There's no shortage of great tutorials for pretty much
    > every program/language/tool. A five second google search...

    Er, I mean since when does it *come with documentation of any kind*?
    (I'm not talking about something you have to spend extra effort
    searching for, I'm talking about what comes with the thing, and what
    should. In particular, the documentation should be included with
    something, not be something you have to search for and then hope you
    found the right one and not some dubious, unofficial thing that turns
    out to be garbage...remember the recent discussion about Diablo guides,
    and bad advice in some of them?)

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    On Tue, 10 May 2005, Twisted One wrote:

    > There's a tutorial? Since when???

    You're right. How could any open source project live up to your
    expectations?
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    The Sheep wrote:
    > Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 08:36:58 +0000 (UTC),
    > The Sheep napisal(a):
    >
    >>Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
    >> ABCGi napisal(a):
    >
    >>>The Sheep wrote:
    >
    >>>>You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
    >>>>functionality for properly viewing images ;)
    >>>
    >>>Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
    >>>viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
    >>>this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*
    >
    > I made a preview png file, available at
    > http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.png

    You expect me to download 67KB???? hehe just kidding

    That looks better than the original SVG I say ;)

    But thank you... I actually did the same and was
    about to post it but my sunsite has been down all
    day :( but its back now;

    http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk/images/rl/basin_svg.png

    CodeMonkeys NewsPage featuring sheeps svg;
    http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk/news.html

    A doomRL screenshot :)
    http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk/images/doomrl/doomrlallinaline.png

    Just to mix it up and make sure KK is paying attention!

    Also check the Forum button for my new blog! *sigh*
    http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk/blog/

    --
    ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
    Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
    DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
    Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Twisted One wrote:
    > Timothy Pruett wrote:
    > [The GIMP]
    >
    >>> There's a tutorial? Since when???
    >>
    >>
    >> ...since always. There's no shortage of great tutorials for pretty
    >> much every program/language/tool. A five second google search...
    >
    >
    > Er, I mean since when does it *come with documentation of any kind*?
    > (I'm not talking about something you have to spend extra effort
    > searching for, I'm talking about what comes with the thing, and what
    > should. In particular, the documentation should be included with
    > something, not be something you have to search for and then hope you
    > found the right one and not some dubious, unofficial thing that turns
    > out to be garbage...remember the recent discussion about Diablo guides,
    > and bad advice in some of them?)

    Yes, I was also referring to official documentation and tutorials,
    right on the site. However, apparently you felt the need to snip that
    bit. The mention of google was to show that even _if_ something
    doesn't have official tutorials, you can always find outstanding
    unofficial substitutes. Like I said in the bit you snipped, the gimp
    homepage has a large array of excellent tutorials and suberbly
    detailed documentation.


    --
    "There are of course many problems connected with life, of
    which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
    `Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
    intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

    -- The Book.
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::

    > Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
    >
    >> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::
    >>
    >>> Here were the ones I made a long time ago... never posted them...
    >>> they need some finishing touches tough ;-)
    >>>
    >>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
    >>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
    >>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
    >>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
    >>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
    >>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg
    >>
    >> My favorite is no. 2
    >
    > Yeah, it's the most "finished" one. The idea is of showing an AT-sign
    > being builded from blocks ;-)

    I forgot to tell why I favor it:

    It's the least static of those. It has motion, and it has depth.

    --
    c.u. Hajo
  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Twisted One wrote::

    > ...remember the recent discussion about Diablo guides,
    > and bad advice in some of them?)

    Yes. In that thread I didn't comment further on it, but I think with a
    little of exerience you can tell the better from the worse.

    --
    c.u. Hajo
  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    On Tue, 10 May 2005, Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
    > Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
    >> could see them! Conclusion: PNG and JPEG are nice when you want people
    >> to see your stuff; any other format might be okay for a "master copy"
    >> but won't be visible to most people.)
    >
    > Don't forget about GIF ;-D

    I can never remember whether it's illegal to create GIFs, to view
    them, or to write code capable of viewing them --- so I just steer
    clear of the format altogether. It's worse than PNG at compression,
    anyway.

    (Wikipedia says it's patent infringement to write code capable of
    /creating/ GIFs, in article "GIF#Unisys and LZW patent enforcement".
    Whatever. "Steer clear" is still my mantra.)

    -Arthur
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
    > (Wikipedia says it's patent infringement to write code capable of
    > /creating/ GIFs, in article "GIF#Unisys and LZW patent enforcement".
    > Whatever. "Steer clear" is still my mantra.)

    Didn't that patent expire last year?

    I also haven't heard of anyone being sued over it recently.

    PNGs do not have better compression IME. If I have a bunch of gifs,
    jpegs, and pngs in a directory the pngs are invariably the largest. Even
    after they're pngcrushed.

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Dnia Wed, 11 May 2005 22:27:31 -0400 (EDT),
    Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):

    >
    > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
    >> Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
    > (Wikipedia says it's patent infringement to write code capable of
    > /creating/ GIFs, in article "GIF#Unisys and LZW patent enforcement".
    > Whatever. "Steer clear" is still my mantra.)

    Yes, it was the case, but now the patent has expired. Rejoice!

    --
    Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
    `The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
    Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
  44. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Twisted One wrote:
    > Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
    >
    >> (Wikipedia says it's patent infringement to write code capable of
    >> /creating/ GIFs, in article "GIF#Unisys and LZW patent enforcement".
    >> Whatever. "Steer clear" is still my mantra.)
    >
    >
    > Didn't that patent expire last year?
    >
    > I also haven't heard of anyone being sued over it recently.
    >
    > PNGs do not have better compression IME. If I have a bunch of gifs,
    > jpegs, and pngs in a directory the pngs are invariably the largest. Even
    > after they're pngcrushed.

    PNGs can't compete to jpegs except in very specific cases.

    But for PNG against GIF, are you sure the PNGs where in 256 colors mode
    ? Because don't forget that GIF can't handle 32bit colors and so they
    will always degrade quality unless the images can fit in a 256 color palete.
  45. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    "Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
    news:hZSdnWXB5KL92R3fRVn-hA@rogers.com...
    > Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
    >> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively, and the Adobe
    >> SVG viewer v6.0 plugin doesn't seem to do anything on either browser;
    >> they just display as raw XML. I hear that Firefox v1.1 is supposed to
    >> support SVG natively, but I don't know whether the nightly builds
    >> would have it yet or not, and I don't feel like trying. Post a link
    >> to a PNG or JPEG, please. (Or PDF, which is a vector format, as I
    >> assume SVG is --- otherwise what advantage would it have? :)
    >
    > NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    > For god's sake DON'T USE PDF! I BEG YOU! NOOOOOOOOOO!
    > [...]

    Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
    choice in my opinion.

    --
    Glen
    L:Pyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
    W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
  46. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Glen Wheeler wrote:
    > Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
    > choice in my opinion.

    For documents intended for offline reading or printing. Not for
    documents intended for online reading. Web browsers and PDF universally
    seem to clash. The temporary hang with Firefox is the best outcome I've
    seen -- some versions of IE would crash consistently if you hit a pdf link.

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  47. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    "Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
    news:XsidncDNiKBLdxvfRVn-gA@rogers.com...
    > Glen Wheeler wrote:
    >> Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
    >> choice in my opinion.
    >
    > For documents intended for offline reading or printing. Not for documents
    > intended for online reading. Web browsers and PDF universally seem to
    > clash. The temporary hang with Firefox is the best outcome I've seen --
    > some versions of IE would crash consistently if you hit a pdf link.
    >

    Hmmm; right click, save as? The Adobe plugin is easily avoided.
    If you do need to use the plugin, let it load up then save the file to HDD
    from the plugin (there is a button for it).

    --
    Glen
    L:Pyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
    W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
  48. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Glen Wheeler wrote:
    > Hmmm; right click, save as? The Adobe plugin is easily avoided.

    Yeah by reading the pdf offline. I stand by what I said: pdf is pants
    for online reading. (Doesn't seem to support relative hyperlinks, anyway.)

    --
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
    "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
    One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
  49. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Glen Wheeler wrote:
    > "Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:hZSdnWXB5KL92R3fRVn-hA@rogers.com...
    >
    >>Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
    >>
    >>> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively, and the Adobe
    >>>SVG viewer v6.0 plugin doesn't seem to do anything on either browser;
    >>>they just display as raw XML. I hear that Firefox v1.1 is supposed to
    >>>support SVG natively, but I don't know whether the nightly builds
    >>>would have it yet or not, and I don't feel like trying. Post a link
    >>>to a PNG or JPEG, please. (Or PDF, which is a vector format, as I
    >>>assume SVG is --- otherwise what advantage would it have? :)
    >>
    >>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    >>For god's sake DON'T USE PDF! I BEG YOU! NOOOOOOOOOO!
    >>[...]
    >
    >
    > Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
    > choice in my opinion.
    >


    Bleh. PDF (and TeX) are fine for putting ink on dead trees, but
    I don't think they have a place in digital media.

    For digital text, which isn't constrained by a physical page
    layout and the "static" requirement of dead ink on dead trees,
    I greatly prefer text formats that allow more flexibility in
    viewing -- like HTML 1.0, which basically allows the user's
    browser to set the text size, font, paragraph width, etc.

    Bear
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