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Roguebasin logo

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Anonymous
May 9, 2005 7:22:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I made a very simple logo to replace that default flower in the
roguebasin. Not sure where to post it, so I post it here.

http://sheep.prv./misc/basin.svg

How about other also make their logos and then we can choose
the best one?
--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.

More about : roguebasin logo

Anonymous
May 9, 2005 7:22:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg

Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
new XP doesn't seem to support it.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 7:24:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Mon, 9 May 2005 15:22:07 +0000 (UTC),
The Sheep napisal(a):

> I made a very simple logo to replace that default flower in the
> roguebasin. Not sure where to post it, so I post it here.
>
> http://sheep.prv./misc/basin.svg
>
> How about other also make their logos and then we can choose
> the best one?

It should be:

http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg

offcourse, my mistake :( 

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Related resources
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 7:24:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
> The Sheep wrote:
>> http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
>
> Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
> new XP doesn't seem to support it.

Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively, and the Adobe
SVG viewer v6.0 plugin doesn't seem to do anything on either browser;
they just display as raw XML. I hear that Firefox v1.1 is supposed to
support SVG natively, but I don't know whether the nightly builds
would have it yet or not, and I don't feel like trying. Post a link
to a PNG or JPEG, please. (Or PDF, which is a vector format, as I
assume SVG is --- otherwise what advantage would it have? :) 

-Arthur
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:17:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

You can download the SVG file and open it with illustration software
like Inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org), which is an excellent open
source and multiplatform program that uses SVG as its primary format.

The SVG file is meant for editing, as "source code" that can be
rendered into images of various sizes and formats.

Lorenzo Gatti
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:52:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Krice wrote:
> The Sheep wrote:
>
>>http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
>
> Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
> new XP doesn't seem to support it.

http://svg.org/

Its XML for vector graphics... ie a text file with
tags describing 2d vector graphics.

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:05:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.

That comment is driving me nuts. It's so not true. Jpgs can be used
for logos or anything when the packing setting is 70-100. After 70
the artifacts are reduced so you wont be able to see them unless you
zoom the pic or look really close.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:29:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> Jpeg is good for photos, but not for artwork.

Don't play stupid. Of course you don't use jpg when you create the
artwork, but some unpacked image format. It's then saved as jpg
and placed on the web page. 99.999% of people do that, but this one
*** is using svg...
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:31:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
>
> On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
>
>> The Sheep wrote:
>>
>>> http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
>>
>> Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
>> new XP doesn't seem to support it.
>
> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively, and the Adobe
> SVG viewer v6.0 plugin doesn't seem to do anything on either browser;
> they just display as raw XML. I hear that Firefox v1.1 is supposed to
> support SVG natively, but I don't know whether the nightly builds
> would have it yet or not, and I don't feel like trying. Post a link
> to a PNG or JPEG, please. (Or PDF, which is a vector format, as I
> assume SVG is --- otherwise what advantage would it have? :) 
>
> -Arthur

It is in the nightly builds apparently.

How is it different from/better than VML?
- Vector Markup Language which works in IE
http://abcgi.fly.to/noughties (IE only VML)

Besides that it only works on IE! :9|

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:31:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Besides that it only works on IE! :9|

Isn't that bad enough? It's so dangerous to go anywhere other than
Windows Update with IE that they should ticket people who do that, just
like they do people who drive with no seatbelt on, all indicators and
headlight bulbs nonfunctional, and all 3 mirrors snapped off.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:01:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Mon, 9 May 2005 11:55:36 -0400 (EDT),
Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):

>
> On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
>> The Sheep wrote:
>>> http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
>> Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
>> new XP doesn't seem to support it.
> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively

You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
functionality for properly viewing images ;) 

Download it instead and use your favorite image viewer/editor to
see it.

I created it using Inkscape (a free vector graphics editor), but the
format is also supported by The Gimp (a free bitmap graphics editor),
and probably many graphics viewers. It's also supported on linux natively
(it's becoming a standard format for icons).

A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.
Gif has too small palette.
Png is not supported in all browsers properly anyways, and it doesn't
rescale so nicely. Plus, it would be several orders of magnitude bigger.

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:01:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.
> Gif has too small palette.
> Png is not supported in all browsers properly anyways, and it doesn't
> rescale so nicely. Plus, it would be several orders of magnitude bigger.

But it would actually work. The svg file will not be viewable as
anything but text on any Windows or Mac system. (At least, none of the
stuff on my system recognizes the format -- including Corel Photo-Paint
and Corel Draw, as well as MSPaint.) If it's not going to be viewable
using free/commonly installed software on the most common platform,
you're excluding 99% of your audience from the get-go.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:12:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia 10 May 2005 02:05:01 -0700,
Krice napisal(a):

> The Sheep wrote:
>> A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.

> That comment is driving me nuts. It's so not true. Jpgs can be used
> for logos or anything when the packing setting is 70-100. After 70
> the artifacts are reduced so you wont be able to see them unless you
> zoom the pic or look really close.

Or you apply some filter to it, or play with the palette, or distort
it, or do anything fancy.

Jpeg is good for photos, but not for artwork.
It's acceptable to store the end result of your work -- human eye won't
see the effects of compression.

But it's not good for intermediate steps, as the 'dirt' will add up
and get amplified by various transformations.

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:50:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia 10 May 2005 02:29:51 -0700,
Krice napisal(a):

> The Sheep wrote:
>> Jpeg is good for photos, but not for artwork.
> Don't play stupid. Of course you don't use jpg when you create the
> artwork, but some unpacked image format. It's then saved as jpg
> and placed on the web page. 99.999% of people do that, but this one
> *** is using svg...

s/\*\*\*/The Sheep/

Anyways, I'm using svg because I assume the logo would have to be further
processed (a shadow added, for example) before it can be used on the page.

The idea with logo contest popped to my mind when I already posted the svg
file. Offcourse, for the contest there should be easy to view, preview
versions, preferably put on some site with thumbnailed index, etc.

Offcourse, original work would have to be kept, in order to use it on the
page.

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 2:35:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005, Twisted One wrote:

> Isn't that bad enough? It's so dangerous to go anywhere other than
> Windows Update with IE that they should ticket people who do that, just
> like they do people who drive with no seatbelt on, all indicators and
> headlight bulbs nonfunctional, and all 3 mirrors snapped off.

You should run for public office. Then maybe your ideas could be
implemented.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 3:05:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> Dnia Mon, 9 May 2005 11:55:36 -0400 (EDT),
> Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):
>
>
>>On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
>>
>>>The Sheep wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
>>>
>>>Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
>>>new XP doesn't seem to support it.
>>
>> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively
>
>
> You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
> functionality for properly viewing images ;) 
>
> Download it instead and use your favorite image viewer/editor to
> see it.
>
> I created it using Inkscape (a free vector graphics editor), but the
> format is also supported by The Gimp (a free bitmap graphics editor),
> and probably many graphics viewers. It's also supported on linux natively
> (it's becoming a standard format for icons).
>
> A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.
> Gif has too small palette.
> Png is not supported in all browsers properly anyways, and it doesn't
> rescale so nicely. Plus, it would be several orders of magnitude bigger.

Except for the Alpha channel in the PNG which isn't supported by all
browser, I would be happy to see a browser that can't display png files
at all.

Too bad that some browsers can't handle tha alpha channel. It was one of
the killer features of the png format that neither GIF nor JPEG had :/ 
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:19:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> I made a very simple logo to replace that default flower in the
> roguebasin. Not sure where to post it, so I post it here.
>
> http://sheep.prv./misc/basin.svg
>
> How about other also make their logos and then we can choose
> the best one?

Here were the ones I made a long time ago... never posted them... they
need some finishing touches tough ;-)

http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Shadows universe is non-heroic, unfair, cruel and designed to
start playing on your nerves and sanity." -- Anubis
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:26:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::

> Here were the ones I made a long time ago... never posted them... they
> need some finishing touches tough ;-)
>
> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg

My favorite is no. 2

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:26:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005, Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::
>>
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg
>
> My favorite is no. 2

I am of the same opinion. #2 is the most "busy" of any of the images,
and I think that's a good thing. The white highlight on the upper left
of the '@' looks a little weird, though, against the white background;
maybe the light source should be red or green? And surely there should
be a place to put the text "RogueBasin" or something in the image.

(Cross-thread: IrfanView doesn't read SVG, either; I forget if anyone's
said that yet or not. Besides, wouldn't it make more sense to use POVRay
as "the" source format for these logos? And I don't think anyone would
try to post links to POVRay sources with the assumption that everyone
could see them! Conclusion: PNG and JPEG are nice when you want people
to see your stuff; any other format might be okay for a "master copy"
but won't be visible to most people.)

-Arthur
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:36:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::
>
>> Here were the ones I made a long time ago... never posted them... they
>> need some finishing touches tough ;-)
>>
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg
>
> My favorite is no. 2

Yeah, it's the most "finished" one. The idea is of showing an AT-sign
being builded from blocks ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Shadows universe is non-heroic, unfair, cruel and designed to
start playing on your nerves and sanity." -- Anubis
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:57:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> Dnia Mon, 9 May 2005 11:55:36 -0400 (EDT),
> Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):
>
>>On Mon, 9 May 2005, Krice wrote:
>>
>>>The Sheep wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://sheep.prv.pl/misc/basin.svg
>>>
>>>Hey, I have heard something about that svg, although a relatively
>>>new XP doesn't seem to support it.
>>
>> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively
>
> You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
> functionality for properly viewing images ;) 

Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*

Is it because you didn't create the file in the
same format Adobe is expecting?

> Download it instead and use your favorite image viewer/editor to
> see it.
>
> I created it using Inkscape (a free vector graphics editor), but the
> format is also supported by The Gimp (a free bitmap graphics editor),
> and probably many graphics viewers. It's also supported on linux natively
> (it's becoming a standard format for icons).
>
> A jpg file would be useless for logo, because of all the artifacts.
> Gif has too small palette.
> Png is not supported in all browsers properly anyways, and it doesn't
> rescale so nicely. Plus, it would be several orders of magnitude bigger.

Yes they are much smaller, like windows meta files
or VML (Vector Markup Language).

Except now the file is not there. ????

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:57:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
ABCGi napisal(a):

> The Sheep wrote:
>> You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
>> functionality for properly viewing images ;) 
>
> Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
> viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
> this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*

I meant it doesn't have basic functionality for viewing any images.
Rotating, scaling, slideshows, etc.

> Is it because you didn't create the file in the
> same format Adobe is expecting?

It's plain SVG. No extensions.

> Except now the file is not there. ????

Works for me.
Maybe try directly from
http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.svg
sheep.prv.pl is a virtual, maybe it's screwed up.

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:57:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
>>>You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
>>>functionality for properly viewing images ;) 
>>
>>Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
>>viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
>>this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*
>
>
> I meant it doesn't have basic functionality for viewing any images.
> Rotating, scaling, slideshows, etc.

Most browsers can scale images these days. Anyway, what's the point in
putting an image on a Web page that won't display in most browsers at
all and, worse, has to be downloaded and viewed offline *using obscure
software nobody knows about*? (or knows how to use) (The gimp, that ink
thing -- never heard of the latter before today and tons of people have
never heard of either I'm sure -- and the gimp, at least, is just about
unusable without some sort of wizardly knowledge obtained, I guess,
through source diving, or else tutoring by an established master.)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:57:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 08:36:58 +0000 (UTC),
The Sheep napisal(a):

> Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
> ABCGi napisal(a):

>> The Sheep wrote:

>>> You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
>>> functionality for properly viewing images ;) 
>> Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
>> viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
>> this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*

I made a preview png file, available at
http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.png

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:57:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:

> Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 08:36:58 +0000 (UTC),
> The Sheep napisal(a):
>
>
>>Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
>> ABCGi napisal(a):
>
>
>>>The Sheep wrote:
>
>
>>>>You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
>>>>functionality for properly viewing images ;) 
>>>
>>>Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
>>>viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
>>>this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*
>
>
> I made a preview png file, available at
> http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.png

Looks very good :) 

Funny, I used konqueror at home to see the page and now I know it
worked, somewhat. All I got was a black on white @ :) 
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:57:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Most browsers can scale images these days. Anyway, what's the point in
> putting an image on a Web page that won't display in most browsers at
> all and, worse, has to be downloaded and viewed offline *using obscure
> software nobody knows about*? (or knows how to use) (The gimp, that ink
> thing -- never heard of the latter before today and tons of people have
> never heard of either I'm sure -- and the gimp, at least, is just about
> unusable without some sort of wizardly knowledge obtained, I guess,
> through source diving, or else tutoring by an established master.)

Oh, come on. The gimp does not require any wizardly knowledge to use.
It has the same kind of learning curve as Photoshop, or any similar
high-end graphics tool. My brother was completely unfamiliar with any
of these tools, but he was able to draw a little and play around in
the gimp right away. The only thing he couldn't do was some of the
layer manipulation stuff, which he was able to learn through a simple
tutorial in no time at all.


--
"There are of course many problems connected with life, of
which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
`Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

-- The Book.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:57:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 11:43:49 +0200,
Christophe napisal(a):

> The Sheep wrote:
>> I made a preview png file, available at
>> http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.png
> Looks very good :) 

Thanks. It's a simple effect I copied from that smileys advertised
all over the web.

> Funny, I used konqueror at home to see the page and now I know it
> worked, somewhat. All I got was a black on white @ :) 

That's the power of XML -- all unknown tags were ignored ;) 

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 9:57:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
> Oh, come on. The gimp does not require any wizardly knowledge to use.
> It has the same kind of learning curve as Photoshop, or any similar
> high-end graphics tool.

That's a pretty damn steep curve though.

> My brother was completely unfamiliar with any of these tools

That might well have been to his advantage. The problem that a lot of
folks have with the GIMP's interface is that they've invested a great
deal of time and effort into learning the "Adobe Way". They'd have to do
a lot of that all over again to learn the "GIMP Way".

To some, the GNU principles of "software freedom" justify the effort. To
others, the only difference is the price tag, and the time required to
adapt more than eats up any savings in that regard.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:11:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 12:15:45 -0400 (EDT),
Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):

> On Tue, 10 May 2005, Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::

> (Cross-thread: IrfanView doesn't read SVG, either; I forget if anyone's
> said that yet or not. Besides, wouldn't it make more sense to use POVRay
> as "the" source format for these logos? And I don't think anyone would
> try to post links to POVRay sources with the assumption that everyone
> could see them! Conclusion: PNG and JPEG are nice when you want people
> to see your stuff; any other format might be okay for a "master copy"
> but won't be visible to most people.)

I already said that I didn't think about having people see it while
posting the .svg file. I'd email it directly to the person in charge of
putting the logo, if I knew who it was and what was his e-mail
(Shoudn't there be link in the roguebasin 'contact' section?).

Sorry for the delay in posting the .png preview.

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:04:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
> ABCGi napisal(a):
>
>>The Sheep wrote:
>>
>>>You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
>>>functionality for properly viewing images ;) 
>>
>>Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
>>viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
>>this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*
>
> I meant it doesn't have basic functionality for viewing any images.
> Rotating, scaling, slideshows, etc.
>
>>Is it because you didn't create the file in the
>>same format Adobe is expecting?
>
> It's plain SVG. No extensions.
>
>>Except now the file is not there. ????
>
> Works for me.
> Maybe try directly from
> http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.svg
> sheep.prv.pl is a virtual, maybe it's screwed up.

Yeah thats better - Adobe's plugin is screwed trying
to open that file anyway - totally balistic opening lots
of windows.

But with an emerging format you could also provide
a screen capture I think... for those not "SVG ready"

I'll try this inkscape bizo (worked = nice)
- it certainly doesn't work in any normal windows
graphic app that i've got - not having the gimp.

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:12:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
> I am of the same opinion. #2 is the most "busy" of any of the images,
> and I think that's a good thing. The white highlight on the upper left
> of the '@' looks a little weird, though, against the white background;
> maybe the light source should be red or green? And surely there should
> be a place to put the text "RogueBasin" or something in the image.

No problem -- I'll correct all these problems if the people decide to
use it. As for at1 I would opt to "watermark" it, blur, and use as a
background for the pages -- instead of that book-thingy.

> could see them! Conclusion: PNG and JPEG are nice when you want people
> to see your stuff; any other format might be okay for a "master copy"
> but won't be visible to most people.)

Don't forget about GIF ;-D
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and
restart body."
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:00:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

My least favorite stalker wrote:
[snip lies and deceit]

Please go away.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:01:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
> Oh, come on. The gimp does not require any wizardly knowledge to use.
> It has the same kind of learning curve as Photoshop, or any similar
> high-end graphics tool. My brother was completely unfamiliar with any
> of these tools, but he was able to draw a little and play around in the
> gimp right away. The only thing he couldn't do was some of the layer
> manipulation stuff, which he was able to learn through a simple tutorial
> in no time at all.

There's a tutorial? Since when???

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:03:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Sherm Pendley wrote:
> To some, the GNU principles of "software freedom" justify the effort. To
> others, the only difference is the price tag, and the time required to
> adapt more than eats up any savings in that regard.

Except that now photoshop (and acrobat, the pdf maker app) have product
activation evilness and stuff there's a large hidden cost in addition to
the obvious price tag to using Adobe products, and it's no doubt related
to that large hidden pentagram about which the major shareholders of
Adobe hold strange rituals before each new version's release.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:12:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>> Oh, come on. The gimp does not require any wizardly knowledge to use.
>> It has the same kind of learning curve as Photoshop, or any similar
>> high-end graphics tool. My brother was completely unfamiliar with any
>> of these tools, but he was able to draw a little and play around in
>> the gimp right away. The only thing he couldn't do was some of the
>> layer manipulation stuff, which he was able to learn through a simple
>> tutorial in no time at all.
>
>
> There's a tutorial? Since when???

....since always. There's no shortage of great tutorials for pretty
much every program/language/tool. A five second google search turned
up plenty of great tutorials for the gimp, and going directly to the
gimp homepage turned up a huge amount of outstanding tutorials, for
every possible need, from beginner to advanced. Most of them are
well-written, concise, and informative. Give them a look sometime.


--
"There are of course many problems connected with life, of
which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
`Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

-- The Book.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 3:15:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
[The GIMP]
>> There's a tutorial? Since when???
>
> ...since always. There's no shortage of great tutorials for pretty much
> every program/language/tool. A five second google search...

Er, I mean since when does it *come with documentation of any kind*?
(I'm not talking about something you have to spend extra effort
searching for, I'm talking about what comes with the thing, and what
should. In particular, the documentation should be included with
something, not be something you have to search for and then hope you
found the right one and not some dubious, unofficial thing that turns
out to be garbage...remember the recent discussion about Diablo guides,
and bad advice in some of them?)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 3:56:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005, Twisted One wrote:

> There's a tutorial? Since when???

You're right. How could any open source project live up to your
expectations?
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 4:16:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:
> Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 08:36:58 +0000 (UTC),
> The Sheep napisal(a):
>
>>Dnia Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:40 +1000,
>> ABCGi napisal(a):
>
>>>The Sheep wrote:
>
>>>>You're not supposed to see it in your browser -- it lacks basic
>>>>functionality for properly viewing images ;) 
>>>
>>>Not according to the Adobe doco... you install its
>>>viewer and you can see it in IE - although true
>>>this didn't bloody work *mumble* *mumble*
>
> I made a preview png file, available at
> http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/misc/basin.png

You expect me to download 67KB???? hehe just kidding

That looks better than the original SVG I say ;) 

But thank you... I actually did the same and was
about to post it but my sunsite has been down all
day :(  but its back now;

http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk/images/rl/basin_svg.png

CodeMonkeys NewsPage featuring sheeps svg;
http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk/news.html

A doomRL screenshot :) 
http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk/images/doomrl/doomrlallina...

Just to mix it up and make sure KK is paying attention!

Also check the Forum button for my new blog! *sigh*
http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk/blog/

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:04:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
> [The GIMP]
>
>>> There's a tutorial? Since when???
>>
>>
>> ...since always. There's no shortage of great tutorials for pretty
>> much every program/language/tool. A five second google search...
>
>
> Er, I mean since when does it *come with documentation of any kind*?
> (I'm not talking about something you have to spend extra effort
> searching for, I'm talking about what comes with the thing, and what
> should. In particular, the documentation should be included with
> something, not be something you have to search for and then hope you
> found the right one and not some dubious, unofficial thing that turns
> out to be garbage...remember the recent discussion about Diablo guides,
> and bad advice in some of them?)

Yes, I was also referring to official documentation and tutorials,
right on the site. However, apparently you felt the need to snip that
bit. The mention of google was to show that even _if_ something
doesn't have official tutorials, you can always find outstanding
unofficial substitutes. Like I said in the bit you snipped, the gimp
homepage has a large array of excellent tutorials and suberbly
detailed documentation.


--
"There are of course many problems connected with life, of
which some of the most popular are `Why are people born?'
`Why do they die?' `Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?'"

-- The Book.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 3:12:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::

> Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::
>>
>>> Here were the ones I made a long time ago... never posted them...
>>> they need some finishing touches tough ;-)
>>>
>>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at1.jpg
>>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at2.jpg
>>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at3.jpg
>>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at4.jpg
>>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at5.jpg
>>> http://chaos.magma-net.pl/basin/at6.jpg
>>
>> My favorite is no. 2
>
> Yeah, it's the most "finished" one. The idea is of showing an AT-sign
> being builded from blocks ;-)

I forgot to tell why I favor it:

It's the least static of those. It has motion, and it has depth.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 4:11:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote::

> ...remember the recent discussion about Diablo guides,
> and bad advice in some of them?)

Yes. In that thread I didn't comment further on it, but I think with a
little of exerience you can tell the better from the worse.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 2:27:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005, Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
>> could see them! Conclusion: PNG and JPEG are nice when you want people
>> to see your stuff; any other format might be okay for a "master copy"
>> but won't be visible to most people.)
>
> Don't forget about GIF ;-D

I can never remember whether it's illegal to create GIFs, to view
them, or to write code capable of viewing them --- so I just steer
clear of the format altogether. It's worse than PNG at compression,
anyway.

(Wikipedia says it's patent infringement to write code capable of
/creating/ GIFs, in article "GIF#Unisys and LZW patent enforcement".
Whatever. "Steer clear" is still my mantra.)

-Arthur
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 3:40:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
> (Wikipedia says it's patent infringement to write code capable of
> /creating/ GIFs, in article "GIF#Unisys and LZW patent enforcement".
> Whatever. "Steer clear" is still my mantra.)

Didn't that patent expire last year?

I also haven't heard of anyone being sued over it recently.

PNGs do not have better compression IME. If I have a bunch of gifs,
jpegs, and pngs in a directory the pngs are invariably the largest. Even
after they're pngcrushed.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 10:19:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Wed, 11 May 2005 22:27:31 -0400 (EDT),
Arthur J. O'Dwyer napisal(a):

>
> On Tue, 10 May 2005, Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
> (Wikipedia says it's patent infringement to write code capable of
> /creating/ GIFs, in article "GIF#Unisys and LZW patent enforcement".
> Whatever. "Steer clear" is still my mantra.)

Yes, it was the case, but now the patent has expired. Rejoice!

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 2:28:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
>
>> (Wikipedia says it's patent infringement to write code capable of
>> /creating/ GIFs, in article "GIF#Unisys and LZW patent enforcement".
>> Whatever. "Steer clear" is still my mantra.)
>
>
> Didn't that patent expire last year?
>
> I also haven't heard of anyone being sued over it recently.
>
> PNGs do not have better compression IME. If I have a bunch of gifs,
> jpegs, and pngs in a directory the pngs are invariably the largest. Even
> after they're pngcrushed.

PNGs can't compete to jpegs except in very specific cases.

But for PNG against GIF, are you sure the PNGs where in 256 colors mode
? Because don't forget that GIF can't handle 32bit colors and so they
will always degrade quality unless the images can fit in a 256 color palete.
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 3:59:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hZSdnWXB5KL92R3fRVn-hA@rogers.com...
> Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
>> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively, and the Adobe
>> SVG viewer v6.0 plugin doesn't seem to do anything on either browser;
>> they just display as raw XML. I hear that Firefox v1.1 is supposed to
>> support SVG natively, but I don't know whether the nightly builds
>> would have it yet or not, and I don't feel like trying. Post a link
>> to a PNG or JPEG, please. (Or PDF, which is a vector format, as I
>> assume SVG is --- otherwise what advantage would it have? :) 
>
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
> For god's sake DON'T USE PDF! I BEG YOU! NOOOOOOOOOO!
> [...]

Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
choice in my opinion.

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 3:59:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:
> Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
> choice in my opinion.

For documents intended for offline reading or printing. Not for
documents intended for online reading. Web browsers and PDF universally
seem to clash. The temporary hang with Firefox is the best outcome I've
seen -- some versions of IE would crash consistently if you hit a pdf link.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 8:55:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:XsidncDNiKBLdxvfRVn-gA@rogers.com...
> Glen Wheeler wrote:
>> Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
>> choice in my opinion.
>
> For documents intended for offline reading or printing. Not for documents
> intended for online reading. Web browsers and PDF universally seem to
> clash. The temporary hang with Firefox is the best outcome I've seen --
> some versions of IE would crash consistently if you hit a pdf link.
>

Hmmm; right click, save as? The Adobe plugin is easily avoided.
If you do need to use the plugin, let it load up then save the file to HDD
from the plugin (there is a button for it).

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 8:55:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:
> Hmmm; right click, save as? The Adobe plugin is easily avoided.

Yeah by reading the pdf offline. I stand by what I said: pdf is pants
for online reading. (Doesn't seem to support relative hyperlinks, anyway.)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 10:02:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Glen Wheeler wrote:
> "Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:hZSdnWXB5KL92R3fRVn-hA@rogers.com...
>
>>Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively, and the Adobe
>>>SVG viewer v6.0 plugin doesn't seem to do anything on either browser;
>>>they just display as raw XML. I hear that Firefox v1.1 is supposed to
>>>support SVG natively, but I don't know whether the nightly builds
>>>would have it yet or not, and I don't feel like trying. Post a link
>>>to a PNG or JPEG, please. (Or PDF, which is a vector format, as I
>>>assume SVG is --- otherwise what advantage would it have? :) 
>>
>>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
>>For god's sake DON'T USE PDF! I BEG YOU! NOOOOOOOOOO!
>>[...]
>
>
> Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
> choice in my opinion.
>


Bleh. PDF (and TeX) are fine for putting ink on dead trees, but
I don't think they have a place in digital media.

For digital text, which isn't constrained by a physical page
layout and the "static" requirement of dead ink on dead trees,
I greatly prefer text formats that allow more flexibility in
viewing -- like HTML 1.0, which basically allows the user's
browser to set the text size, font, paragraph width, etc.

Bear
!