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Anonymous
May 16, 2005 2:07:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Ray Dillinger wrote:
> For digital text, which isn't constrained by a physical page
> layout and the "static" requirement of dead ink on dead trees,
> I greatly prefer text formats that allow more flexibility in
> viewing -- like HTML 1.0, which basically allows the user's
> browser to set the text size, font, paragraph width, etc.

If only you could have that and beautiful typesetting too...(and
mathematical formulae!)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 7:09:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One napisał(a):
> Glen Wheeler wrote:
>
>> Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very
>> good choice in my opinion.
>
>
> For documents intended for offline reading or printing. Not for
> documents intended for online reading. Web browsers and PDF universally
> seem to clash. The temporary hang with Firefox is the best outcome I've
> seen -- some versions of IE would crash consistently if you hit a pdf link.
>

Yes, it really annoys me when I click some lurking pdf and waste 5
minutes of my connection, but I think it's web browser's fault. Instead
of using pdf plugin they should show download dialog or at least give
choice.

--
Milesss
m i l e s s s @ i n t e r i a . p l
www.milesss.mylog.pl
"/0"
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 7:09:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Mon, 16 May 2005 15:09:51 +0200,
Milesss napisal(a):

> Yes, it really annoys me when I click some lurking pdf and waste 5
> minutes of my connection, but I think it's web browser's fault. Instead
> of using pdf plugin they should show download dialog or at least give
> choice.

It's just a question of configuration, really.

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Related resources
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 8:13:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Ray Dillinger" <bear@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:_8Mhe.577$W51.4754@typhoon.sonic.net...
> Glen Wheeler wrote:
>> "Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:hZSdnWXB5KL92R3fRVn-hA@rogers.com...
>>
>>>Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah; neither MSIE nor Firefox support SVG natively, and the Adobe
>>>>SVG viewer v6.0 plugin doesn't seem to do anything on either browser;
>>>>they just display as raw XML. I hear that Firefox v1.1 is supposed to
>>>>support SVG natively, but I don't know whether the nightly builds
>>>>would have it yet or not, and I don't feel like trying. Post a link
>>>>to a PNG or JPEG, please. (Or PDF, which is a vector format, as I
>>>>assume SVG is --- otherwise what advantage would it have? :) 
>>>
>>>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
>>>For god's sake DON'T USE PDF! I BEG YOU! NOOOOOOOOOO!
>>>[...]
>>
>>
>> Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
>> choice in my opinion.
>>
>
>
> Bleh. PDF (and TeX) are fine for putting ink on dead trees, but
> I don't think they have a place in digital media.
>
> For digital text, which isn't constrained by a physical page
> layout and the "static" requirement of dead ink on dead trees,
> I greatly prefer text formats that allow more flexibility in
> viewing -- like HTML 1.0, which basically allows the user's
> browser to set the text size, font, paragraph width, etc.
>

While I understand that opinion, one can still employ the advantages of
hyperlinks in a PDF (while looking great, being printable, and being an easy
single download).

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 12:54:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I believe the patents were awarded at different times and the patent
office made a mistake in not figuring out the two applications were for
the same thing. But if you have ever read a patent application for
software you would be amazed that anyone can figure out what it does or
whether any two applications are for the same thing! IBM's patent
application was submitted 3 weeks earlier but I am guessing the patent
expiration dates are set from time the patent is awarded and IBM's must
have been awarded later than Unisys'. Just guessing there. So what
does it mean (legally speaking) when there are two patents on the same
thing? Since neither IBM nor Unisys challenged the other's patent we
will never know. Given IBM's patent will expire in a year anyway and
the uncertain legal enforceability of that patent it is almost
certainly not worth any effort on their part to attempt to license it.
(doesn't mean they won't of course).

And IBM only granted a license to use SOME of their patents to FOSS
developers, not all. That is also a two edged blade. Any FOSS project
that uses an IBM patent can never be forked into or used as a component
of a commercial product as long as that code is there. Kind of the
ultimate in viral open software licensing. I haven't actually read the
license terms, but lack of first hand knowledge never stops people from
posting here anyway.


> How the hell can two companies have the same patent (for the same
> invention) with two different expiry dates? I thought the US patent
> system was broken *before* reading this. Now I think it's broken as
> designed, brain damaged, and various other things as well, some of
them
> not fit to print.
>
> Of course FOSS developers can still rejoice and use GIF all they want

> even if this is true, since IBM has said that they will let open
source
> developers use any of IBM's software patents royalty-free.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 2:11:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Chris Reuter a écrit :
> In article <4286acfa@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Glen Wheeler <gew75@uow.edu.au> wrote:
>
>>"Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
>
> [PDF is bad]
>
>> Are you serious? All my produced documents are TeX=>PDF. A very good
>>choice in my opinion.
>
>
> PDF is great as a way to distribute printable documents, especially
> since you can do a bit of rudimentary online browsing beforehand.
>
> As an online document format, it's utterly attrocious, for the
> following reasons:
>
> 4) You can't grep a PDF.

Xpdf can search inside a PDF. I don't know about other pdf viewers.

> 5) Good (or at least non-horrible) web browsers are more widely
> available than PDF readers.
>
> 6) PDF viewers show one (paper) page at a time. This means, you
> can't see more of the text by enlarging the reader window the
> way you can in HTML or plain ASCII.

Wrong, Acrobat Reader as a continuous page mode available. That way, you
can continuously scroll from one page to another without break or page
change.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 3:29:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Quoting Christophe <chris.cavalaria@free.fr>:
>Chris Reuter a écrit :
>>4) You can't grep a PDF.
>Xpdf can search inside a PDF. I don't know about other pdf viewers.

But that's not what we want. With plain text, or with HTML and 2 seconds
effort, I can use any conventional UNIX shell tool to search or whatever.
Can't do that with a PDF.

>> 6) PDF viewers show one (paper) page at a time. This means, you
>> can't see more of the text by enlarging the reader window the
>> way you can in HTML or plain ASCII.
>Wrong, Acrobat Reader as a continuous page mode available.

Useless with multiple columns on one page.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Leicesterday, May.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 3:32:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Quoting ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com>:
>Chris Reuter wrote:
>> 5) Good (or at least non-horrible) web browsers are more widely
>> available than PDF readers.
>I don't know anyone without a PDF viewer of some kind.

Which misses the point. One obvious example; who has a Web browser on
their cellphone? Lots of people, and some of them have even become
remotely practical to use for tightly focused tasks. Who has a PDF viewer?

Now, is that bus timetable you're looking up a PDF or plain HTML?
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Leicesterday, May.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 5:32:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

David Damerell a écrit :
> Quoting Christophe <chris.cavalaria@free.fr>:
>
>>Chris Reuter a écrit :
>>
>>>4) You can't grep a PDF.
>>
>>Xpdf can search inside a PDF. I don't know about other pdf viewers.
>
>
> But that's not what we want. With plain text, or with HTML and 2 seconds
> effort, I can use any conventional UNIX shell tool to search or whatever.
> Can't do that with a PDF.

And you can't do that either with OO.o documents, and it can be
difficult to do in some cases with rich text documents : the formating
can interfer with the searching.

But, there's that new desktop search thingy which seems rather popular
those days. Maybe it'll be the answer to your problem :) 

>>> 6) PDF viewers show one (paper) page at a time. This means, you
>>> can't see more of the text by enlarging the reader window the
>>> way you can in HTML or plain ASCII.
>>
>>Wrong, Acrobat Reader as a continuous page mode available.
>
>
> Useless with multiple columns on one page.

True
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 5:32:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Tue, 17 May 2005 13:32:01 +0200,
Christophe napisal(a):

> David Damerell a écrit :
>> Quoting Christophe <chris.cavalaria@free.fr>:
>>>Chris Reuter a écrit :

>>>Xpdf can search inside a PDF. I don't know about other pdf viewers.
>> But that's not what we want. With plain text, or with HTML and 2 seconds
>> effort, I can use any conventional UNIX shell tool to search or whatever.
>> Can't do that with a PDF.
> And you can't do that either with OO.o documents,

Yes, you can. Those are just zipped xml files.

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! The quest for the Real World:
`The Sheep' ('') 3 Try #1: cd /..
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvv.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 6:32:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Quoting ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com>:
[PDF]
>But it has it's uses...
>"therefore it does have a use in the real world and
>the web - it depends on your motivations."

Yes. If your motivation is to make it as easy as possible for people to
view your work, avoid PDF if possible. If you have some other motivation,
it may be appropriate. Maybe you enjoy people exclaiming "Aargh, another
stinking PDF!"

>For purposes such as publishing a novel on the web I
>prefer PDF personally...

I read ebooks almost exclusively on my Psion Series 5, which I use while
travelling - if I'm at home I can read a real book, so I'm not going to
read books on the computer.

This device has a moderately-sized screen - 120mm x 55mm - and is more
than sufficient to read plain text. I enjoy reading books on it; right
this minute there are 105 books on the CF card and I know I have read most
of them.

But am I going to read a PDF? No. Even if there was a PDF reader on it,
which there isn't, the screen is not large enough to permit any kind of
formatting. I need text in a readable font and size of my selection (in 2
columns, to keep the line lengths sensible) crammed into that little
screen. At that, my girlfriend reads books on a Clie, whose screen is half
the size.

>I don't want anyone reading
>it on a mobile as it will spoil what I'm trying to
>deliver IMO...

I think you're completely misdirected. Is what you're trying to deliver
words or typesetting? Because, here's a hint, I don't read novels for the
typesetting.

If a device isn't adequate to read books on (and I don't think for a
minute a conventionally sized cellphone screen is) the user will find that
out quickly enough without particular books needing to be crippled to
prevent them from doing it.

What you miss, like the "tight control" Web design crowd, is that print
books need careful typesetting because they are printed; the user can't
choose the font and size, so the printer had better choose a good one.
Electronic publishing does not have that constraint; the user can choose a
font and size that suits them, so don't select a format that tries to
prevent that.

>Or how about the alpha hoops rules?
>http://tinyurl.com/7vume - alphahoops PDF

I can see absolutely no reason these can't be plain text at 1/10th the
size. And, given the lack of computers in basketball courts, it's just the
sort of thing one might want to refer to on a mobile device.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Leicesterday, May.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 10:12:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Chris Reuter wrote:
>
*SNIP*
>> 4) You can't grep a PDF.
>
> It's as compressed as it gets.
*SNIP*

heh - for some reason I read something else
other than grep here :)  doh

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 4:41:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting ABCGi <abcgi@yahoo.com>:
> [PDF]
>
>>But it has it's uses...
>>"therefore it does have a use in the real world and
>>the web - it depends on your motivations."
>
> Yes. If your motivation is to make it as easy as possible for people to
> view your work, avoid PDF if possible. If you have some other motivation,
> it may be appropriate. Maybe you enjoy people exclaiming "Aargh, another
> stinking PDF!"

haha !

>>For purposes such as publishing a novel on the web I
>>prefer PDF personally...
>
> I read ebooks almost exclusively on my Psion Series 5, which I use while
> travelling - if I'm at home I can read a real book, so I'm not going to
> read books on the computer.
>
> This device has a moderately-sized screen - 120mm x 55mm - and is more
> than sufficient to read plain text. I enjoy reading books on it; right
> this minute there are 105 books on the CF card and I know I have read most
> of them.
>
> But am I going to read a PDF? No. Even if there was a PDF reader on it,
> which there isn't, the screen is not large enough to permit any kind of
> formatting. I need text in a readable font and size of my selection (in 2
> columns, to keep the line lengths sensible) crammed into that little
> screen. At that, my girlfriend reads books on a Clie, whose screen is half
> the size.

Very good points. Sounds like a neat device.

>>I don't want anyone reading
>>it on a mobile as it will spoil what I'm trying to
>>deliver IMO...
>
> I think you're completely misdirected. Is what you're trying to deliver
> words or typesetting? Because, here's a hint, I don't read novels for the
> typesetting.

Yeah in this case I do want it to look exactly how I produced it, so
that's the crazy motivation. I also like that they can then print a
book out of it exactly how I want the book to look... I guess the
hardcover books don't have typesetting options so maybe its just a
throwback to that.

> If a device isn't adequate to read books on (and I don't think for a
> minute a conventionally sized cellphone screen is) the user will find that
> out quickly enough without particular books needing to be crippled to
> prevent them from doing it.
>
> What you miss, like the "tight control" Web design crowd, is that print
> books need careful typesetting because they are printed; the user can't
> choose the font and size, so the printer had better choose a good one.
> Electronic publishing does not have that constraint; the user can choose a
> font and size that suits them, so don't select a format that tries to
> prevent that.

In most cases I would agree. In bizness I use PDF's for the same reasons :) 

>>Or how about the alpha hoops rules?
>>http://tinyurl.com/7vume - alphahoops PDF
>
> I can see absolutely no reason these can't be plain text at 1/10th the
> size. And, given the lack of computers in basketball courts, it's just the
> sort of thing one might want to refer to on a mobile device.

hehe ;)  good point, I'll concede that one...

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 12:19:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:
> I read ebooks almost exclusively on my Psion Series 5, which I use while
> travelling - if I'm at home I can read a real book, so I'm not going to
> read books on the computer.

That's weird. I can read a real book even while travelling, so long as I
remember to bring one with me.

> I think you're completely misdirected. Is what you're trying to deliver
> words or typesetting? Because, here's a hint, I don't read novels for the
> typesetting.

If you're trying to deliver mathematical notation or other stuff, it's
either PDF, MathML (which EVEN STILL no Web browser except Amaya will
display out of the box, and Amaya is crash-prone, obscure, and more a
testbed than a production browser anyway), horrible HTML kludges that
don't render properly in some browsers, aren't nice to look at in
general, or both, and very limited anyway, or doing up your math
notation in some other app and generating lots of little images to
inline in HTML (preferably, TeX -> PDF -> screen capture -> crop -> gif)
and still doesn't align properly with the surrounding text or look quite
right due to slight font differences or some such. The latter is the
only reasonably portable non-bloated option; pdf is the only option that
produces a consistent look to the document and has especially nice
antialiasing everywhere.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 12:23:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Christophe wrote:
> And you can't [grep] either with OO.o documents, and it can be
> difficult to do in some cases with rich text documents : the formating
> can interfer with the searching.

OO.o?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 1:00:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:

> Christophe wrote:
>
>> And you can't [grep] either with OO.o documents, and it can be
>> difficult to do in some cases with rich text documents : the formating
>> can interfer with the searching.
>
> OO.o?

When are you going to learn?

<http://www.google.com/search?q=OO.o&gt;

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 7:18:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Christophe wrote:
>
>> And you can't [grep] either with OO.o documents, and it can be
>> difficult to do in some cases with rich text documents : the formating
>> can interfer with the searching.
>
> OO.o?

OpenOffice.org
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Due to Pascal's original purpose as a teaching language it forces one
to learn good habits - and those good habits stay with you, even when
you later migrate to a much more forgiving language." - Sherm Pendley
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 7:18:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Twisted One wrote:
>
>> Christophe wrote:
>>
>>> And you can't [grep] either with OO.o documents, and it can be
>>> difficult to do in some cases with rich text documents : the
>>> formating can interfer with the searching.
>>
>>
>> OO.o?
>
>
> OpenOffice.org

The word processor you *should* be using.


--
SoulEaterRL... Coming soon!

http://www.freewebs.com/timsrl/index.htm

--
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 7:18:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> OO.o?
>
> OpenOffice.org

There -- was that so hard? Why would you write it as a domain name and
not just say "OpenOffice" anyway?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 7:18:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> OpenOffice.org
>
> There -- was that so hard?

No, actually Googling for "OO.o" and seeing that the very first link
goes to "OpenOffice.org" is really quite simple.

Obviously too hard for you, though. Maybe you should try AOL? I hear
it's much easier.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 9:24:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> Twisted One wrote:
>>> Christophe wrote:
>>>> And you can't [grep] either with OO.o documents, and it can be
>>>> difficult to do in some cases with rich text documents : the
>>>> formating can interfer with the searching.
>>> OO.o?
>> OpenOffice.org
> The word processor you *should* be using.

Nah, I prefer LaTeX or Acrobat. OO is cute for creating PDF's out of
those damn word-docs tough :-).
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Due to Pascal's original purpose as a teaching language it forces one
to learn good habits - and those good habits stay with you, even when
you later migrate to a much more forgiving language." - Sherm Pendley
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 9:24:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Nah, I prefer LaTeX or Acrobat. OO is cute for creating PDF's out of
> those damn word-docs tough :-).

ACROBAT? But it's EEEVIL!

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 11:02:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> Nah, I prefer LaTeX or Acrobat. OO is cute for creating PDF's out of
>> those damn word-docs tough :-).
>
> ACROBAT? But it's EEEVIL!

It may be EEEVIL, but as a computer artist I learned to value Adobe's
tools profesionalism, and Acrobat produces a lot prettier documents then
both OO and Word.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"From what I've read, a lot of people believe that GenRogue
exists and will be released some day" -- Arxenia Xentrophore
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 11:03:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>> OO.o?
>>
>> OpenOffice.org
>
> There -- was that so hard? Why would you write it as a domain name and
> not just say "OpenOffice" anyway?

Because they call themselves that way.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
Carceri -- A prelude to GenRogue... Coming Soon
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:54:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> It may be EEEVIL, but as a computer artist I learned to value Adobe's
> tools profesionalism, and Acrobat produces a lot prettier documents then
> both OO and Word.

But not LaTeX.

Adobe has a long history of draconian EULAs and stomping on people in
the Mac community. Also, Adobe uses product activation, DRM, and other
customer-hostile and user-unfriendly behaviors motivated by greed and
paranoia. Basically, they are a Mac-oriented version of Microsoft.

Microsoft, of course, is worse, if only because they got into operating
systems too and have much more market share generally.

Intuit, amazingly, is even more horrible, but they only make one product
category, financial software, and this limits the damage. There are also
free or cheap-and-nonevil alternatives that aren't hard to use. (TaxCut,
TaxAct, MoneyTree, etc.) Unlike M$ (Unix is hard to use and you have to
replace your hardware to use MacOS) and unlike Adobe (Photoshop free
alternative is the GIMP; Acrobat free alternative is TeX/LaTeX; both are
hard to use). That limits the damage some more.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:59:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> There -- was that so hard? Why would you write it as a domain name and
>> not just say "OpenOffice" anyway?
>
> Because they call themselves that way.

Of course they do, since "OpenOffice" is not a valid TLD. So they have
to stick a ".org" or something similar on the end of their domain name.
But you were referring to documents made with OpenOffice, not to
documents found on their Web site openoffice.org -- or at least so I
thought...

Anyway, abbreviating something that isn't too long to begin with and,
when abbreviated, looks like line noise or fat-fingered typing to the
uninitiated, is really, really dumb unless one intends to
exclude/confound others for some reason, in which case I question their
motives.

There seems to be a very common misconception that shortening just about
everything to a cryptic few letters is the height of efficiency; it
isn't. The time you save in typing is more than made up for by the time
your readers spend scratching their heads, asking questions, or
performing searches, and by the time you spend answering (or vocally
refusing to answer, or responding to in a needlessly indirect, obscure,
ambiguous, cryptic, or derisive way or any combination thereof) the
questions of those who choose that route.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 9:08:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One a écrit :
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>>> There -- was that so hard? Why would you write it as a domain name
>>> and not just say "OpenOffice" anyway?
>>
>>
>> Because they call themselves that way.
>
>
> Of course they do, since "OpenOffice" is not a valid TLD. So they have
> to stick a ".org" or something similar on the end of their domain name.
> But you were referring to documents made with OpenOffice, not to
> documents found on their Web site openoffice.org -- or at least so I
> thought...
>
> Anyway, abbreviating something that isn't too long to begin with and,
> when abbreviated, looks like line noise or fat-fingered typing to the
> uninitiated, is really, really dumb unless one intends to
> exclude/confound others for some reason, in which case I question their
> motives.
>
> There seems to be a very common misconception that shortening just about
> everything to a cryptic few letters is the height of efficiency; it
> isn't. The time you save in typing is more than made up for by the time
> your readers spend scratching their heads, asking questions, or
> performing searches, and by the time you spend answering (or vocally
> refusing to answer, or responding to in a needlessly indirect, obscure,
> ambiguous, cryptic, or derisive way or any combination thereof) the
> questions of those who choose that route.

The name of the product *is* OpenOffice.org, not OpenOffice
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 9:08:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Christophe wrote:
> The name of the product *is* OpenOffice.org, not OpenOffice

Well, *that*'s just silly. The software is not an organization, nor is
it an organization Web site. Sticking TLDs on the names of things that
aren't internet domains is not only dumb, it's *Microsoft* dumb. Too
reminiscent of .NET...

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 10:00:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> It may be EEEVIL, but as a computer artist I learned to value Adobe's
>> tools profesionalism, and Acrobat produces a lot prettier documents
>> then both OO and Word.
>
> But not LaTeX.

But LaTeX is a lot less user-friendly... although when you got the
proper templates pre-prepared... well, "the power is yours" ;-).

> TaxAct, MoneyTree, etc.) Unlike M$ (Unix is hard to use and you have to
> replace your hardware to use MacOS) and unlike Adobe (Photoshop free
> alternative is the GIMP; Acrobat free alternative is TeX/LaTeX; both are
> hard to use). That limits the damage some more.

But to be honest, I tried realy hard to substitute Photoshop for the
GIMP. Unfortunately this is the one type of program where ease of use is
*critical* for the creative process. Also GIMP doesn't handle tablets
(or at least my Wacom Intuos) well. Still it is a much smaller gap then
between Blender and 3ds MAX...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Oh come on. We both know the truth about this game --
vapourware." -- Anathiel about GenRogue
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 10:01:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Christophe wrote:
>
>> The name of the product *is* OpenOffice.org, not OpenOffice
>
> Well, *that*'s just silly. The software is not an organization, nor is
> it an organization Web site. Sticking TLDs on the names of things that
> aren't internet domains is not only dumb, it's *Microsoft* dumb. Too
> reminiscent of .NET...

Maybe it's a intended joke contraposing to .NET ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"11 years and no binary. And it's not vapourware" -- Igor Savin
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