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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Is it a good idea to make a website, release source, etc for a
roguelike that is jsut starting? or is it better to release when
something playable has evolved? so far, my project (it's current, and
very lame name is NImrl) is only about 500 lines long, and is just map
generators and the beginnings of an item system. What are the various
theorys about releasing?
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

NIm wrote:
> Is it a good idea to make a website, release source, etc for a
> roguelike that is jsut starting? or is it better to release when
> something playable has evolved? so far, my project (it's current, and
> very lame name is NImrl) is only about 500 lines long, and is just
map
> generators and the beginnings of an item system. What are the various
> theorys about releasing?

Well, there are several theories. I prefer "release early, release
often, open the source." Pretty much, if you're at the point where you
have an @ walking around, I'd be inclined to release. Any time you
update major functionality, release. Meanwhile, keep a CVS repository
that people can grab from if they like.

Other people might not release until there's a playable game. Some
might not open source. Others wait 10+ years to release. ;) Some
never do.
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

NIm <bladedpenguin@gmail.com>
wrote on 11 May 2005 09:37:38 -0700:
> Is it a good idea to make a website, release source, etc for a
> roguelike that is jsut starting? or is it better to release when
> something playable has evolved? so far, my project (it's current, and
> very lame name is NImrl) is only about 500 lines long, and is just map
> generators and the beginnings of an item system. What are the various
> theorys about releasing?

I put something up on my site when I have a minimally playable game
(or a minimally usable construction kit, in those cases; I don't always
have a full demo game). I don't want anyone to download something from
me and feel they've wasted their time entirely.

--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Gibson and I dueled among blazing stacks of books for a while. [...] The
streets were crowded with his black-suited minions and I had to turn into a
swarm of locusts and fly back to Seattle." -Neal Stephenson, /. interview
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

So I guess I should get a website then. To yahoo geocities! (for now)
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

neokosmos@gmail.com wrote:
> Other people might not release until there's a playable game. Some
> might not open source. Others wait 10+ years to release. ;) Some
> never do.

Genrogue being in one of the latter two categories...;)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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NIm wrote:
> So I guess I should get a website then. To yahoo geocities! (for now)

No, no, no! A thousand times no! Geoshitties? Are you out of your
cotton-pickin' mind?! Use your ISP's web space. You will thank me in the
end.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

NIm wrote:
> generators and the beginnings of an item system. What are the various
> theorys about releasing?

I don't have a playable game, but I've released it in hope that
someone would test it and find bugs I haven't noticed. This actually
has worked quite well, although people loose their interest fast
when they see that the game doesn't have much playable content:)
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

NIm wrote:

> is only about 500 lines long

Mine one might be even shorter, and yet, it was thrown to whoever know
about it :)
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Krice wrote:
> NIm wrote:
>
>>generators and the beginnings of an item system. What are the various
>>theorys about releasing?
>
> I don't have a playable game, but I've released it in hope that
> someone would test it and find bugs I haven't noticed. This actually
> has worked quite well, although people loose their interest fast
> when they see that the game doesn't have much playable content:)

As long as they sometimes find a bug and report it before losing
interest, you come out ahead. :)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting NIm <bladedpenguin@gmail.com>:
> >Is it a good idea to make a website, release source, etc for a
> >roguelike that is jsut starting? or is it better to release when
> >something playable has evolved?
>
> My inclination would be to release when you have something minimally
> playable; release as soon as people can enjoy it. Before then, who's
going
> to bother?

I agree.

However, I'd further clarify that by saying that you should have
something minimally playable very early in the development process.

I'd also point out that a regular release is useful for keeping your
own motivation consistent. One option is to make a website and start a
weekly release, but NOT advertise it. Wait until you seem to be able
to keep it up for a month or two before releasing it. There are a lot
of flash-in-the-pan websites that only have one or two releases before
fizzling away. By waiting until you are sure your project is going to
last long enough, you can save other people the time.

As a data point, I had been working on POWDER for a few months before I
bothered to release it. I believe I didn't start advertising it (at
first by solely adding it to my signature) until later. My first
rec.games.roguelike.announce posting on it was for version 037, which
marked my one year mark.
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Quoting NIm <bladedpenguin@gmail.com>:
>Is it a good idea to make a website, release source, etc for a
>roguelike that is jsut starting? or is it better to release when
>something playable has evolved?

My inclination would be to release when you have something minimally
playable; release as soon as people can enjoy it. Before then, who's going
to bother?

I must admit I haven't even looked at all the 7DRL offerings yet...
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Second Thursday, May.
 
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NIm <bladedpenguin@gmail.com>
wrote on 11 May 2005 22:01:01 -0700:
> So I guess I should get a website then. To yahoo geocities! (for now)

I'd really recommend finding some stable hosting and a cheap domain
name, instead of the free stuff that'll just be thrown away soon.

<http://www.godaddy.com/> has some really cheap options, and cheap
domain name registration.

I'm still using a "free" account (though I contribute to the operation
of KUOI, so it's not really free), but it's been the same address for 10
years. That won't work with any of the free sites.

I do have another domain name with serious hosting plans, but it's for
a different project.

--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Gibson and I dueled among blazing stacks of books for a while. [...] The
streets were crowded with his black-suited minions and I had to turn into a
swarm of locusts and fly back to Seattle." -Neal Stephenson, /. interview
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes <kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> wrote:
> NIm <bladedpenguin@gmail.com>
>> So I guess I should get a website then. To yahoo geocities! (for now)

> <http://www.godaddy.com/> has some really cheap options, and cheap
> domain name registration.

Wow, I've never seen another provider that even came close to globat.com
in terms of price. (But godaddy still doesn't beat it...)

--
Jim Strathmeyer
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

In article <L8ednUFiBsUPWh7fRVn-pQ@adelphia.com>,
Timothy Pruett <drakalor.tourist@gmail.com> wrote:
[www.freewebs.com]
> Plus, no ads. Not too
>bad for a free host, if you can deal with the relatively small amount
>of webspace. The fact that it's ad-free was enough to satisfy me.

Actually, the TOS says that they'll start displaying ads after 45 days
if you don't become a premium (i.e. paying) member. The same section
of the TOS also says that you agree to display a bar on your page that
points back to their main page, something that I, uh, notice you
haven't done.

Interestingly, I couldn't find the prices for their premium membership
on their site, only a comment on their TOS page that it starts at less
than $1 a month.

BTW, my strategy was to register a domain name, get DNS services from
EasyDNS (a good company IME) and forward everything to my ISP's
webspace et. al. It costs me about CDN$30 a year, not including the
ISP bill.


--Chris



--
Chris Reuter http://www.blit.ca
"'Vertical-niche'? That's far too polite a way of saying 'plunging straight
down a narrow chasm into the FIRES OF HELL'."
--Anthony de Boer
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Chris Reuter wrote:
> In article <L8ednUFiBsUPWh7fRVn-pQ@adelphia.com>,
> Timothy Pruett <drakalor.tourist@gmail.com> wrote:
> [www.freewebs.com]
>
>> Plus, no ads. Not too
>>bad for a free host, if you can deal with the relatively small amount
>>of webspace. The fact that it's ad-free was enough to satisfy me.
>
>
> Actually, the TOS says that they'll start displaying ads after 45 days
> if you don't become a premium (i.e. paying) member. The same section
> of the TOS also says that you agree to display a bar on your page that
> points back to their main page, something that I, uh, notice you
> haven't done.
>
> Interestingly, I couldn't find the prices for their premium membership
> on their site, only a comment on their TOS page that it starts at less
> than $1 a month.
>
> BTW, my strategy was to register a domain name, get DNS services from
> EasyDNS (a good company IME) and forward everything to my ISP's
> webspace et. al. It costs me about CDN$30 a year, not including the
> ISP bill.

Yeah, this would be the first time I've ever failed to read every word
of the TOS for something. I was in a bit of a rush to just set
something up. Oh well. It's only a temporary solution anyways, since
I'm going to be renting a comlete server soon, which will _more_ than
take care of my needs. ;-)

Speaking of which, once I get my server, and set it up and everything,
any RL developer is welcome to some free webspace. Just email if
you're interested, and I'll keep you in mind when it's all ready. You
still have to pay for your own domain, of course, unless you just want
to use a subdomain under my personal domain. I should probably be
able to give out about 50-100 MB per person. The server has a fast
connection (100 Megs), so I'm not too concerned over speed issues. :)


--
SoulEaterRL... Coming soon!

http://www.freewebs.com/timsrl/index.htm

--
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

NIm wrote:
> So I guess I should get a website then. To yahoo geocities! (for now)

If you're going open source, you might want to have a look at
sourceforge.net. It has lots of OSS-oriented services in addition to
just web hosting - CVS, mailing lists, bug tracking, etc.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

NIm wrote:
> So I guess I should get a website then. To yahoo geocities! (for now)

My html coding skill is the worst of all IMHO. Whenever I need to
release anything I simply send it to everybody on my address list :)
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Wow. Thanks, everybody, for saving me from certain lame slowness at the
hands of the wyrm geoshitties:)
 
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Jeff Lait wrote:
> David Damerell wrote:
> > Quoting NIm <bladedpenguin@gmail.com>:
> > >Is it a good idea to make a website, release source, etc for a
> > >roguelike that is jsut starting? or is it better to release when
> > >something playable has evolved?
> >
> > My inclination would be to release when you have something
minimally
> > playable; release as soon as people can enjoy it. Before then,
who's
> going
> > to bother?
>
> I agree.
>
> However, I'd further clarify that by saying that you should have
> something minimally playable very early in the development process.

This is really important: I never add more than one feature at a time,
subdividing features, and compiling after each visible enhancement. so
far, it's a generated dungeon with doors and walls, and just enough
player code to walk around in said dungeon. I'm working on items next,
which has me embroiled in a bug that skips lines 83-87, which makes a
10kb array go undeclared....

I'm learning.

<snip>
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
> Speaking of which, once I get my server, and set it up and everything,
> any RL developer is welcome to some free webspace. Just email if you're
> interested, and I'll keep you in mind when it's all ready. You still
> have to pay for your own domain, of course, unless you just want to use
> a subdomain under my personal domain. I should probably be able to give
> out about 50-100 MB per person. The server has a fast connection (100
> Megs), so I'm not too concerned over speed issues. :)

You can eventually save my ass when my ISP finds out who is eating 10GB
of his bandwidth every month :-D
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It must be excellent code -- Mistress Compiler would not have
it any other way." -- Twisted One
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> neokosmos@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Other people might not release until there's a playable game. Some
>> might not open source. Others wait 10+ years to release. ;) Some
>> never do.
>
> Genrogue being in one of the latter two categories...;)

khe khe, probably right ;-) (see quote below).
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"11 years and no binary. And it's not vapourware" -- Igor Savin
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>> Speaking of which, once I get my server, and set it up and everything,
>> any RL developer is welcome to some free webspace. Just email if
>> you're interested, and I'll keep you in mind when it's all ready. You
>> still have to pay for your own domain, of course, unless you just want
>> to use a subdomain under my personal domain. I should probably be
>> able to give out about 50-100 MB per person. The server has a fast
>> connection (100 Megs), so I'm not too concerned over speed issues. :)
>
>
> You can eventually save my ass when my ISP finds out who is eating 10GB
> of his bandwidth every month :-D

No problemo. :)

I'll email you when I'm all set up and ready to go.


--
SoulEaterRL... Coming soon!

http://www.freewebs.com/timsrl/index.htm

--
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of which, once I get my server, and set it up and
>>> everything, any RL developer is welcome to some free webspace. Just
>>> email if you're interested, and I'll keep you in mind when it's all
>>> ready. You still have to pay for your own domain, of course, unless
>>> you just want to use a subdomain under my personal domain. I should
>>> probably be able to give out about 50-100 MB per person. The server
>>> has a fast connection (100 Megs), so I'm not too concerned over speed
>>> issues. :)
>>
>> You can eventually save my ass when my ISP finds out who is eating
>> 10GB of his bandwidth every month :-D
>
> No problemo. :)
> I'll email you when I'm all set up and ready to go.

As for now the ISP is unaware. But when further downloads will come up...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Oh come on. We both know the truth about this game --
vapourware." -- Anathiel about GenRogue
 
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