Preferred Keyboard Controls

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Hello,

I was wondering what keyboard controls you prefer for RL actions. I
realize this is potentially flamewar instigating stuff, so let's avoid
the vi-keys versus arrow keys/numpad debate (the solution is obviously
to support both ;-).

The reason I ask is that in Nethack, which is my main point of
reference, the Look command is '/', but with my Javascript Roguelike in
Mozilla Firefox, pressing '/' brings up the page search dialog.
Likewise, the arrow keys scroll the page around, so I am forced to use
vi-keys. This is obviously a limitation that the environment imposes on
me, but I would like to keep the controls as close to a 'standard' RL
as possible.

To summarize; what are your preferred key bindings for common RL
commands (not including movement)?

Andy

PS: If you haven't seen my RL (JRR) yet, check it out at
http://www.pagezero.net/roguelike/javascript2 (Firefox-only atm, sorry)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Andy Driver wrote:
> > Hello,

> > I was wondering what keyboard controls you prefer for RL actions. I
> > realize this is potentially flamewar instigating stuff, so let's
avoid
> > the vi-keys versus arrow keys/numpad debate (the solution is
obviously
> > to support both ;-).

> When it comes to programming, yes. When it comes to playing, numpad
wins
> every time. Arrow keys don't have diagonals and vi-keys don't
correspond
> in any logical way to movement directions vis a vis their position on
the keyboard (and, worse, might actually *move around* from one layout
> to another, and even no longer be in a big clump under, say, Dvorak
layout or whatever).

I hadn't thought of that. I'll add numpad support too.

<snip>

> > To summarize; what are your preferred key bindings for common RL
> > commands (not including movement)?

> Well, q should be quaff, ? and F1 should be help/documentation
viewer, r
> should be read, z should be zap, i inventory, e equipment, w >
wear/wield
> ...

These are good, and match up with my Nethack experience. F1 might be
tricky, though. Any more? Specifically, is there a good alternative to
'/' for look?

Andy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Andy Driver wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was wondering what keyboard controls you prefer for RL actions. I
> realize this is potentially flamewar instigating stuff, so let's
avoid
> the vi-keys versus arrow keys/numpad debate (the solution is
obviously
> to support both ;-).
>
> The reason I ask is that in Nethack, which is my main point of
> reference, the Look command is '/',

Though what seems intuitive to people who first learned interface A for
a task may not seem intuitive to people who first learned interface B
for it, I must say I could never make much sense of the / command --
neither its initiation nor work with it after that.

But to the point: l for look or x for "x"amine will be consistent with
any user mental model built up by the rest of your command keys, and of
course with any mental model built up by playing other roguelikes in
the past.

> but with my Javascript Roguelike in
> Mozilla Firefox, pressing '/' brings up the page search dialog.

Firefox -- now with more Lynx-compatibility!

> To summarize; what are your preferred key bindings for common RL
> commands (not including movement)?

One letter or another, it's all the same to me, but I am happiest when:
- I don't have to press Shift too much;
- I don't have to use the right side of the keyboard for the most
common actions (I'm a numpadder)
- I'm not faced with excessively long option lists (but see below )
- I'm not faced with excessive synonyms for what's basically the same
action (but see above ), leading to extra rote memorization and to
so many commands that shifted keys must be used to accomodate them all
- I can remap keys (I realize that that's not an option for you)
- the "first-letter" rule is respected wherever reasonable
- movement keys never, ever do anything other than move *cough* Crawl
*cough*

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I use numpad completely. say, 1-9 for direction, "/" then num for
skills, etc... It is extremely nice when you have an external numpad
like me

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Andy Driver wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was wondering what keyboard controls you prefer for RL actions. I
> realize this is potentially flamewar instigating stuff, so let's avoid
> the vi-keys versus arrow keys/numpad debate (the solution is obviously
> to support both ;-).

When it comes to programming, yes. When it comes to playing, numpad wins
every time. Arrow keys don't have diagonals and vi-keys don't correspond
in any logical way to movement directions vis a vis their position on
the keyboard (and, worse, might actually *move around* from one layout
to another, and even no longer be in a big clump under, say, Dvorak
layout or whatever).

> The reason I ask is that in Nethack, which is my main point of
> reference, the Look command is '/', but with my Javascript Roguelike in
> Mozilla Firefox, pressing '/' brings up the page search dialog.
> Likewise, the arrow keys scroll the page around, so I am forced to use
> vi-keys.

NOOOOOOO!
Use the numpad! Before it's too late! (or both)

> To summarize; what are your preferred key bindings for common RL
> commands (not including movement)?

Well, q should be quaff, ? and F1 should be help/documentation viewer, r
should be read, z should be zap, i inventory, e equipment, w wear/wield
....

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Andy Driver wrote:
> These are good, and match up with my Nethack experience. F1 might be
> tricky, though. Any more? Specifically, is there a good alternative to
> '/' for look?

'l' comes to mind. So does 'x' (eXamine) which is used in crawl. Use the
command name's first letter when possible -- it makes it easier for your
users to memorize and makes it likely to match up to some other games
out there (notably *bands, of which there are a great many with nearly
identical bindings).

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

erisdiscordia wrote:
> - movement keys never, ever do anything other than move *cough* Crawl
> *cough*

You object to the numpad also being used to launch melee attacks in
Crawl?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/browse_frm/thread/c4ebcb235cc275dc/>

--
Jim Strathmeyer

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Fri, 13 May 2005, Jim Strathmeyer wrote:
>
> <http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/browse_frm/thread/c4ebcb235cc275dc/>

I think you mean

http://groups.google.es/groups?hl=en&threadm=%25SPSc.7179$54.109274@typhoon.sonic.net

The latter URL has the dual advantages of (1) not directing readers
to Google Groups Beta, and (2) containing the Message-ID of the root
of the thread right in the URL, for the benefit of readers who prefer
to read Usenet in their news client or elsewhere on the Web.
(One of the many intentional flaws in Google Groups Beta is its
insistence on using proprietary, meaningless "Beta IDs" such as
"c4ebcb235cc275dc," instead of standard Message-IDs, to index archived
Usenet posts.)

-Arthur,
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ajo/dont-be-evil.html#newcontent

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Jim Strathmeyer wrote:
> <http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/browse_frm/thread/c4ebcb235cc275dc/>

Interesting. Looks like <, >, ?, and Q are pretty much universal.

Also, it got Angband's L and M swapped -- L is scroll around full-scale
map and M is shrink map to fit on one screen. M is very useful for
locating the nearest stairs if they aren't in view at 1:1 scale. (Stairs
and certain other useful features never "hide between the pixels", so
you will be able to locate them to within about three squares.)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On 13 May 2005 06:49:10 -0700, "erisdiscordia" <erik@sky.cz> wrote:

>- movement keys never, ever do anything other than move *cough* Crawl
>*cough*

It's standard behavior in RLs for movement keys to do things other
than move, like, oh... make a melee attack.

--
R. Dan Henry = danhenry@inreach.com
Dance, Puppet, dance!
But why are there *humans* dancing for the puppet?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Andy Driver wrote:

> To summarize; what are your preferred key bindings for common RL
> commands (not including movement)?
>
> Andy

I prefer Numpad, but there definitely must be another option-- my
laptop (and others like it) doesn't have a keypad (in normal mode, and
other RL's like Crawl, ADOM, don't seem to be compatible with the
"numpad lock" keystrokes)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

R. Dan Henry wrote:
> On 13 May 2005 06:49:10 -0700, "erisdiscordia" <erik@sky.cz> wrote:
>
>
>>- movement keys never, ever do anything other than move *cough* Crawl
>>*cough*
>
>
> It's standard behavior in RLs for movement keys to do things other
> than move, like, oh... make a melee attack.
>

I'm doing something a little different; I have the numbers 1-9 move
the character or meelee, (except for 5, which executes "wait in
place"), and the arrow keys scroll the map.

Of course, the map also autoscrolls when you get too close to an edge,
but I think it's important to be able to explicitly scroll so you can
see things from further away in some circumstances or even look at
remembered parts of the map where your character is not.

Bear

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

[...]
> 'l' comes to mind. So does 'x' (eXamine) which is used in crawl. Use the
> command name's first letter when possible -- it makes it easier for your
> users to memorize and makes it likely to match up to some other games
> out there (notably *bands, of which there are a great many with nearly
> identical bindings).
[...]

Mnemonic bindings are, in my opinion, the most intuitive. For something like
look I'd reccomend *both* x and l, as well as for "get item from floor"
being g as well as , (used by ADOM, which I have played for hundreds of
hours, so I automatically press , when I want to pick something up! .

Unless you are somehow running out of keys, redundant implementations won't
do any harm (makes everybody happy, so to say). Also, in an earlier thread a
while ago, someone discussed the absolute uselessness of having duplicate
keys for "eat food, zap wand, read scroll, use item, pull lever, etc." when
there is only one supported action for the item (that is to say,
generically, (U)se), which manifests itself in different ways. Something to
consider is implementing the different keys for different item actions-- the
standard way-- as well as 'u' for a master-use (once again, making everybody
happy .

--Nolithius

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

[...]
> I'm doing something a little different; I have the numbers 1-9 move
> the character or meelee, (except for 5, which executes "wait in
> place"), and the arrow keys scroll the map.
>
> Of course, the map also autoscrolls when you get too close to an edge,
> but I think it's important to be able to explicitly scroll so you can
> see things from further away in some circumstances or even look at
> remembered parts of the map where your character is not.
[...]

Intuitively in RLs, the arrow keys should give you movement. Have you
considered Shift+Arrow key for map scrolling? I know the use of Shift might
be frowned upon, but in this case it makes sense-- you're providing an
alternate functionality to the same key. In addition, with this approach you
can make it so that when the user releases the Shift key, the map centers
back on the player (this feature could be turned off through config/options,
ideally, but default on seems good .

Cheers,

Nolithius

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Nolithius wrote:
> [...]
>
>>I'm doing something a little different; I have the numbers 1-9 move
>>the character or meelee, (except for 5, which executes "wait in
>>place"), and the arrow keys scroll the map.
>>
>>Of course, the map also autoscrolls when you get too close to an edge,
>>but I think it's important to be able to explicitly scroll so you can
>>see things from further away in some circumstances or even look at
>>remembered parts of the map where your character is not.
>
> [...]
>
> Intuitively in RLs, the arrow keys should give you movement. Have you
> considered Shift+Arrow key for map scrolling? I know the use of Shift might
> be frowned upon, but in this case it makes sense-- you're providing an
> alternate functionality to the same key.

It should only take a player a second to catch on that arrow keys
don't give you movement, and after that it should be plenty intuitive.
Diablo allows you to scroll you minimap with the arrow keys, and I
never had a problem with it. Granted, I do like the idea of using
Shift+Arrow key for scrolling. It too seems intuitive, and allows
arrow keys to be used for movement, which is always handy for us folks
without numpads.

> In addition, with this approach you
> can make it so that when the user releases the Shift key, the map centers
> back on the player (this feature could be turned off through config/options,
> ideally, but default on seems good .

Meh, I don't really think that seems good. I'd rather have an
auto-center key, like many FPS games have. Forcing the map to center
back on the player, even as a configurable default, would be a bit of
a pain. It'd definitely be a turnoff for me, and could easily prompt
people to stop playing, before they get a chance to learn that such
behavior could be turned off. Best to keep the camera where the
player scrolled it, and only move it back on him if he manually does
so himself, hits the auto-center key, or sets the config to always
auto-center.


--
SoulEaterRL... Coming soon!

http://www.freewebs.com/timsrl/index.htm

--

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ABCGi wrote:
> Andy Driver wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I was wondering what keyboard controls you prefer for RL actions. I
> > realize this is potentially flamewar instigating stuff, so let's
avoid
> > the vi-keys versus arrow keys/numpad debate (the solution is
obviously
> > to support both ;-).
>
> I don't think that is obvious as you potentially lose
> keys.

You clearly haven't had the joy of playing rogulikes on a laptop.

Even if you use the NumLock to turn a section of the laptop into a
numpad, you will still lose keys as that numberpad will be overlaid on
the alphanumeric keyboard.

I also strongly believe in supporting the arrow keys to do the same as
the number pad. First, the majority of movement can be done with arrow
keys. For sloppy players like me, this means even lacking vi keys one
can play it on a laptop by just switching to 1-9 when one needs a
diagonal. (BTW: Do not disable the support of normal 1-9 if you are
going numpad only!)

Next, even with a full size keyboard, I'd usually use the arrow keys
for movement. One is very used to using them to cursor around, so it
comes naturally.

When assigning keys, it may be useful to remember that the right hand
is often used for movement - either number pad, arrow, or vi keys.
This means the left hand keys are more valuable and should be used for
commonly executed commands. (This is also why "losing" the vi keys
isn't as bad as it sounds, the right hand is already quite busy)

Be very careful with using punctuation. It shows up in different
places on different keyboards, and may even not exist...
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Andy Driver wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was wondering what keyboard controls you prefer for RL actions. I
> realize this is potentially flamewar instigating stuff, so let's avoid
> the vi-keys versus arrow keys/numpad debate (the solution is obviously
> to support both ;-).

I don't think that is obvious as you potentially lose
keys. Configurable/savable or keysets is viable. There
is an arguement for not allowing keys to be changeable
though (easy documentation, consistent feel, game design
control - these don't resonate well with me but it is
still an arguement).

> The reason I ask is that in Nethack, which is my main point of
> reference, the Look command is '/', but with my Javascript Roguelike in
> Mozilla Firefox, pressing '/' brings up the page search dialog.
> Likewise, the arrow keys scroll the page around, so I am forced to use
> vi-keys. This is obviously a limitation that the environment imposes on
> me, but I would like to keep the controls as close to a 'standard' RL
> as possible.
>
> To summarize; what are your preferred key bindings for common RL
> commands (not including movement)?

I don't believe we should avoid surveying that as well.
As it is integral to the whole key design.

> Andy
>
> PS: If you haven't seen my RL (JRR) yet, check it out at
> http://www.pagezero.net/roguelike/javascript2 (Firefox-only atm, sorry)

Better than IE only = nice wd!

Could you do me a favour and collate the results once
your survey is done? Perhaps add it to the RogueBasin?

Quickly, I prefer:
Numpad keys for movements
Numpad '5' - pickup (a recent and horrific change of pref)
g - get, perhaps if generally allowing two keys to do same thing
r - read
z - zap
q - quaff
.. - rest (numpad or main)
? - help
f - target and f again to fire
tab - next target
l - look
x - exchange
R - rest till interrupted or healed/magicked up
numpad 0 - reload
enter - action (numpad or main)
e - equipment
E - eat
i - inventory
d - drop
o - open
c - close
u - use
U - special use
<> - up down stairs
12345 - quick weapon switch or tactics
@ - character screen
ctrl x - exit

And so on... which RL keyset do I like best???

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Jeff Lait wrote:
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>>Andy Driver wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>I was wondering what keyboard controls you prefer for RL actions. I
>>>realize this is potentially flamewar instigating stuff, so let's
>
> avoid
>
>>>the vi-keys versus arrow keys/numpad debate (the solution is
>
> obviously
>
>>>to support both ;-).
>>
>>I don't think that is obvious as you potentially lose
>>keys.
>
>
> You clearly haven't had the joy of playing rogulikes on a laptop.
>
> Even if you use the NumLock to turn a section of the laptop into a
> numpad, you will still lose keys as that numberpad will be overlaid on
> the alphanumeric keyboard.

As an individual who does everything on his laptop, I agree with you
wholeheartedly. The NumLk function on my keyboard makes it almost
impossible to do anything, since so many keys become unusable in the
process.

> I also strongly believe in supporting the arrow keys to do the same as
> the number pad. First, the majority of movement can be done with arrow
> keys. For sloppy players like me, this means even lacking vi keys one
> can play it on a laptop by just switching to 1-9 when one needs a
> diagonal. (BTW: Do not disable the support of normal 1-9 if you are
> going numpad only!)

Definitely. I rely completely on the arrow keys for movement, with
the occasional 1-9 for critical movements involving diagonals. It's a
pain in the ass to use, but without using those keys for movement, it
would have been impossible for me to get my first ADOM victory.

> Next, even with a full size keyboard, I'd usually use the arrow keys
> for movement. One is very used to using them to cursor around, so it
> comes naturally.

Same here. Arrow keys and the "wasd" keys for movement are by far the
most intuitive (the latter from my FPS experience).

> When assigning keys, it may be useful to remember that the right hand
> is often used for movement - either number pad, arrow, or vi keys.
> This means the left hand keys are more valuable and should be used for
> commonly executed commands. (This is also why "losing" the vi keys
> isn't as bad as it sounds, the right hand is already quite busy)

I dunno. ADOM used up a number of the vi keys for other commands, and
I found them to be rather intuitive. One problem with the vi keys, as
I see it (besides the fact that they're a pain to use), is that they
tie up the 'y' and 'n' keys, which are obviously used for any "yes" or
"no" selections. I hate the idea of tying a movement key to these
keys, because it's way too easy to be moving along quickly, get a
prompt, not see it, and accidently hit the movement key, thus
selecting a potentially bad choice. When you use normal movement
keys, there can be no ill effect from moving rapidly and missing a
prompt, since no action will be taken no matter how many times you
mash on the arrow keys.

> Be very careful with using punctuation. It shows up in different
> places on different keyboards, and may even not exist...


--
SoulEaterRL... Coming soon!

http://www.freewebs.com/timsrl/index.htm

--

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Jeff Lait wrote:

> Be very careful with using punctuation. It shows up in different
> places on different keyboards, and may even not exist...

In general, I think you can rely on most punctuation characters. After
all, ~ ! # ^ & * { } | ; : ' " < > , . ? are all used to type C source
code. Unless you're targetting a platform such as a cell phone or
gameboy, I'd say these are pretty reasonable characters to use.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
> Meh, I don't really think that seems good. I'd rather have an
> auto-center key, like many FPS games have.

A key I never use when playing any FPS. It's useless with mouselook, but
you (the player) are useless without mouselook.

[snip discussion of autocentering in RLs]

Attempting to move or issue any other gameplay command (one which takes
game time) ought to recenter so you can see wtf you're doing and any
monsters that crop up!

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

neokosmos@gmail.com wrote:
> In general, I think you can rely on most punctuation characters. After
> all, ~ ! # ^ & * { } | ; : ' " < > , . ? are all used to type C source
> code. Unless you're targetting a platform such as a cell phone or
> gameboy, I'd say these are pretty reasonable characters to use.

Phones only have numpads, #, and * (as a rule -- there may be
exceptions) and gameboys have only arrow keys and a few other keys, so
you can't even rely on the alphabet on those platforms.

It's probably safe to limit your game's portability by making "keyboard"
a system requirement. It's probably impossible to have a playable
roguelike without one, other than an extremely simplified one with
basically only movement commands. (One with lots of metaing needed to
enter most commands doesn't count as "playable" in my book. How many
distinct long sequences of # and * can someone memorize, after all?
Assuming you don't want to use movement keys for anything but movement.)

In that case, the alphabet, the punctuation above plus `, and tab, bksp,
and ctrl-letter and shift-<letter, digit, or punctuation> should be
dependably available.

Also, in your list above you missed [ and ], which are used for array
indexing in C and have additional uses in C++. Also, =, +, -, _, \, and
/.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Attempting to move or issue any other gameplay command (one which takes
> game time) ought to recenter so you can see wtf you're doing and any
> monsters that crop up!

Clarification: the above applies when the @ has been scrolled off the
screen, or near enough to the edge; it should at least snap back to show
the @ a minimum distance from the edge, if not fully centered, in those
cases. If the @ is close enough to centered already it can be left
alone. (And start scrolling with the @ if the @ gets close enough to an
edge.)

Actually -- the sensible thing is either for movement to keep the @
centered, or for movement to gradually scroll-ahead until the @ is
fairly off-center in the direction *opposte* travel, then stabilize the
@'s on screen position there. Or let the "look-ahead squares" or how far
off-center the @ drifts be set in preferences. If the @ is outside a
centered-on-screen square of side 2*look-ahead when a gameplay command
is issued, the view should snap to be centered as close as possible to
where it was before subject to the constraint that the @ now lies inside
that square; then the effects of the command occur.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Timothy Pruett wrote:
> Jeff Lait wrote:
>
>> ABCGi wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Driver wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering what keyboard controls you prefer for RL actions. I
>>>> realize this is potentially flamewar instigating stuff, so let's
>>
>>
>> avoid
>>
>>>> the vi-keys versus arrow keys/numpad debate (the solution is
>>
>>
>> obviously
>>
>>>> to support both ;-).
>>>
>>> I don't think that is obvious as you potentially lose
>>> keys.
>>
>> You clearly haven't had the joy of playing rogulikes on a laptop.
>>
>> Even if you use the NumLock to turn a section of the laptop into a
>> numpad, you will still lose keys as that numberpad will be overlaid on
>> the alphanumeric keyboard.
>
> As an individual who does everything on his laptop, I agree with you
> wholeheartedly. The NumLk function on my keyboard makes it almost
> impossible to do anything, since so many keys become unusable in the
> process.
*SNIP*

Except this is preferences not keyboard design. I prefer
to use the numpad and have those other keys available

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Thanks for the link - I couldn't find that when I searched...

Andy