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What features do you want in a Cyberpunk RL?

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Anonymous
May 14, 2005 12:46:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Hey all,

I find it somewhat amusing that there is all this talk about alternative
themes/genres in which to develop a Roguelike, yet the most robust RLs out
there currently are Classical Fantasy or Doom-based ;) .

I'm currently in the process of finishing my current web-based game
(non-RL), and I have vowed not to start or work on any other projects before
it is at a playable stage.

However, I've begun to kick around my head the idea of developing a
Cyberpunk-based RL, with the following source material as a guide:

Games:
Shadowrun (SNES)
Deus Ex (1 only!)
System Shock (1+2)
Anachronox
Fallout 1+2 (for style, it won't be post-apoc though this theme needs also
to be exploited! ;) 

Literature:
Neuromancer (Wilson)
Snow Crash (Stephenson)
The Diamond Age (Stephenson)
Shadowrun PnP Sourcebooks

Movies:
Blade Runner
Minority Report
The Fifth Element
The Matrix (for stylistic elements as well, not the setting (or is it? ;)  ).


So I have a question for you:

What features would you like to see in a Cyberpunk Roguelike? Be as specific
or as broad as you want, I'm only brainstorming and doing preliminary design
at the moment (gotta keep my vow! ;) .

Also, feel free to reccomend additional sources (the setting time and
technology-wise is that of Snow Crash/Neuromancer, that is to say, no more
than 100 years into the future).

Cheers ;) 

--Nolithius

More about : features cyberpunk

Anonymous
May 14, 2005 12:46:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Fifth Element is cyberpunk? *goes to rewatch DVD -- does not
remember it being cyberpunk*

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 12:46:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:46:42 GMT, "Nolithius" <Nolithius@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Hey all,
>
>I find it somewhat amusing that there is all this talk about alternative
>themes/genres in which to develop a Roguelike, yet the most robust RLs out
>there currently are Classical Fantasy or Doom-based ;) .
>
>I'm currently in the process of finishing my current web-based game
>(non-RL), and I have vowed not to start or work on any other projects before
>it is at a playable stage.
>
>However, I've begun to kick around my head the idea of developing a
>Cyberpunk-based RL, with the following source material as a guide:
>
>Games:
>Shadowrun (SNES)

I never really got into the SNES game, certainly I didn't play it long
enough to find out much about the game. I'd suggest looking into the
Genesis version; the cyberspace hacking was pretty nifty.

>Deus Ex (1 only!)
>System Shock (1+2)
>Anachronox
>Fallout 1+2 (for style, it won't be post-apoc though this theme needs also
>to be exploited! ;) 

Never played any of those.

You might wanna take a look at Uplink for a bit of inspiration, at least
AFA "hacking" goes:
http://www.uplink.co.uk/

There's a free demo, gives you a limited amount of game time (not real
time; not connected) before you have to restart - check the "Demo" page.

>Literature:
>Neuromancer (Wilson)

Neuromancer was written by William Gibson - methinks you got his name a
wee bit mixed-up. <g>

>Snow Crash (Stephenson)

Oh, yes! I haven't read Stephenson's other stuff, but Snow Crash would
be great for inspiration.

>The Diamond Age (Stephenson)
>Shadowrun PnP Sourcebooks

The Shadowrun RPG would be a good place for general info. IIRC GURPS has
a buncha cyberpunk sourcebooks worth looking at.

>Movies:
>Blade Runner

Yes - this may be the only mainstream truly cyberpunk movie; the rest
are either not grim enough ("Johnny Mnemonic") or rely far too much on
"action" ("The Matrix") and not story.

>Minority Report

Iffy, IMO. Good tech, but the mood just doesn't seem right to me.

>The Fifth Element

Eh... I wouldn't, not for cyberpunk. Too cartoony. As with "Minority
Report", good tech, but *really* the wrong mood.

>The Matrix (for stylistic elements as well, not the setting (or is it? ;)  ).

Hell no, not at all. "Whoa, dude, I am, like, so totally The One(tm)!
Whoa! I can, like, totally stop bullets with my mind!" [groan]

>So I have a question for you:
>
>What features would you like to see in a Cyberpunk Roguelike? Be as specific
>or as broad as you want, I'm only brainstorming and doing preliminary design
>at the moment (gotta keep my vow! ;) .

Well... I'm spoiled by my favorite hacking games, the
previously-mentioned Shadowrun (Genesis) and Uplink, so I'd vote for
some decent "hacking", realistic or otherwise.

>Also, feel free to reccomend additional sources (the setting time and
>technology-wise is that of Snow Crash/Neuromancer, that is to say, no more
>than 100 years into the future).

For a grim mood, you may want to read _I Am Legend_ by Richard Matheson.
It was made into a movie in 1963 - "The Last Man on Earth", starring
Vincent Price - and [apparently] another one under a different title
(can't remember) was done in the 90's. "Johnny Mnemonic" was... uh,
well, see it, maybe you'll see something worth using.
--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
GRUE BAIT
Related resources
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 1:00:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Nolithius wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I find it somewhat amusing that there is all this talk about alternative
> themes/genres in which to develop a Roguelike, yet the most robust RLs out
> there currently are Classical Fantasy or Doom-based ;) .
>
> I'm currently in the process of finishing my current web-based game
> (non-RL), and I have vowed not to start or work on any other projects before
> it is at a playable stage.
>
> However, I've begun to kick around my head the idea of developing a
> Cyberpunk-based RL, with the following source material as a guide:
>
> Games:
> Shadowrun (SNES)
> Deus Ex (1 only!)
> System Shock (1+2)
> Anachronox
> Fallout 1+2 (for style, it won't be post-apoc though this theme needs also
> to be exploited! ;) 
>
> Literature:
> Neuromancer (Wilson)
> Snow Crash (Stephenson)
> The Diamond Age (Stephenson)
> Shadowrun PnP Sourcebooks
>
> Movies:
> Blade Runner
> Minority Report
> The Fifth Element
> The Matrix (for stylistic elements as well, not the setting (or is it? ;)  ).
>
>
> So I have a question for you:
>
> What features would you like to see in a Cyberpunk Roguelike? Be as specific
> or as broad as you want, I'm only brainstorming and doing preliminary design
> at the moment (gotta keep my vow! ;) .
>
> Also, feel free to reccomend additional sources (the setting time and
> technology-wise is that of Snow Crash/Neuromancer, that is to say, no more
> than 100 years into the future).
>
> Cheers ;) 
>
> --Nolithius
>
>

http://groups.google.es/groups?hl=en&threadm=%ltUZc.117...$54.162254@typhoon.sonic.net
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 1:59:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

[...]
> The Fifth Element is cyberpunk? *goes to rewatch DVD -- does not
> remember it being cyberpunk*
[...]

That's nitpicking. It's a sci-fi source of inspiration for a Cyberpunk game.
Seriously off-topic-- I don't want this to become a criticism about the
sources I'm picking. In fact, forget I even listed any sources. Instead,
feel free to answer my question or provide any thoughtful feedback on
developing a Cyberpunk RL in general.

--Nolithius
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 4:22:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

To be honest, in the worst kind of way, cyberpunk is so cliche nowadays
that it's become a sad parody of itself. It's a very longtime interest
of mine, so I'm probably among it's strongest critics. I think hard
science fiction in general offers a much broader palette than cyberpunk
alone, but it does have its place.

What I don't want is "feature soup by popular demand." Look at what
gross genericism Tolkien's works have wrought in fantasy. We're right
back into "mix all the colors and you get mud" territory here.

For what it's worth, I would nominate my favorites "Gravity's Rainbow"
by Thomas Pynchon, and the movie Brazil (directed by Terry Gilliam), as
classic works with penultimate technology-lust and info-society themes
(respectively) which do not suffer the common genre/setting pitfalls
(perhaps because they pre-date their establishment). They are not
cyberpunk in the modern sense, but remain superior works of fiction &
film.

More currently, I would recommend "Altered Carbon" by Richard Morgan,
and the movie Tetsuo 2: Body Hammer, as sources with material that's
suitably corporate (former), apocalyptic (latter), and action-thriller
(both) to base a game on.

To wrap this up, cyberpunk is a genre of many sacrifices both literary
(popular cliches) and literal (societal, social, and personal). Which
leads to my suggestion: gameplay with tradeoffs (e.g. System Shock and
Fallout) is more fun than simple monotonic power accumulation, and
sharing your own views of the genre is more interesting than
regurgitating popular ones.

-Lucas
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 6:54:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Nolithius napisa³(a):
> Hey all,
>
> I find it somewhat amusing that there is all this talk about alternative
> themes/genres in which to develop a Roguelike, yet the most robust RLs out
> there currently are Classical Fantasy or Doom-based ;) .
>
> I'm currently in the process of finishing my current web-based game
> (non-RL), and I have vowed not to start or work on any other projects before
> it is at a playable stage.

I'm not as stubborn as you. I started my C++ RL, but now I'm working
mostly on my web page. And it's no enough: I also maintain blog (see
signature), make music, and work on web page for someone else. I wonder
which of these things will I finish.

> However, I've begun to kick around my head the idea of developing a
> Cyberpunk-based RL, with the following source material as a guide:
>
> Games:
> Shadowrun (SNES)
> Deus Ex (1 only!)
> System Shock (1+2)
> Anachronox
> Fallout 1+2 (for style, it won't be post-apoc though this theme needs also
> to be exploited! ;) 

If you have Fallout 2, you can play free IansOut mod. It is on
Sourceforge. I havent played it yet, but it may be interesting.

> Literature:
> Neuromancer (Wilson)
> Snow Crash (Stephenson)
> The Diamond Age (Stephenson)
> Shadowrun PnP Sourcebooks
>
> Movies:
> Blade Runner
> Minority Report
> The Fifth Element
> The Matrix (for stylistic elements as well, not the setting (or is it? ;)  ).

I recommend "Avalon" movie, but it may be hard to get outside of my
country. If you can bear it, you can watch some anime like "Vampire
Hunter D Bloodlust" and *"Ghost in The Shell"*.

And "Animatrix" too.

>
> So I have a question for you:
>
> What features would you like to see in a Cyberpunk Roguelike? Be as specific
> or as broad as you want, I'm only brainstorming and doing preliminary design
> at the moment (gotta keep my vow! ;) .

Drugs. I can't imagine cyberbunk without drugs. They could give
temporary positive effect, and then some more longterm negative side effect.

You could add some more violence and its verbose description.

I have one more idea but I don't remember it. ;) 

> Also, feel free to reccomend additional sources (the setting time and
> technology-wise is that of Snow Crash/Neuromancer, that is to say, no more
> than 100 years into the future).

See above.

>
> Cheers ;) 
>
> --Nolithius
>
>

--
Milesss
m i l e s s s @ i n t e r i a . p l
www.milesss.mylog.pl
"/0"
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 6:55:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Auric__ napisał(a):
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:46:42 GMT, "Nolithius" <Nolithius@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
[...]
>>Deus Ex (1 only!)
>>System Shock (1+2)
>>Anachronox
>>Fallout 1+2 (for style, it won't be post-apoc though this theme needs also
>>to be exploited! ;) 
>
>
> Never played any of those.
>
> You might wanna take a look at Uplink for a bit of inspiration, at least
> AFA "hacking" goes:
> http://www.uplink.co.uk/

It's a very good game. I played only demo, but its ambience is great.


>
>>The Matrix (for stylistic elements as well, not the setting (or is it? ;)  ).
>
>
> Hell no, not at all. "Whoa, dude, I am, like, so totally The One(tm)!
> Whoa! I can, like, totally stop bullets with my mind!" [groan]
>

Don't blaspheme. I'm Matrix cultist (see my blog).

--
Milesss
m i l e s s s @ i n t e r i a . p l
www.milesss.mylog.pl
"/0"
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 7:46:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Auric__ wrote:
> Yes - this may be the only mainstream truly cyberpunk movie; the rest
> are either not grim enough ("Johnny Mnemonic") or rely far too much on
> "action" ("The Matrix") and not story.

Blade Runner is absolutely *the* Cyberpunk Movie...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Oh come on. We both know the truth about this game --
vapourware." -- Anathiel about GenRogue
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 7:48:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Milesss wrote:
> Nolithius napisa³(a):
> I'm not as stubborn as you. I started my C++ RL, but now I'm working
> mostly on my web page. And it's no enough: I also maintain blog (see
> signature), make music, and work on web page for someone else. I wonder
> which of these things will I finish.

None ;-).
The more you do the less you will finish. Stick with one thing at a
time, and you''ll finish all of them eventualy. Yes, that's from autopsy.

>> However, I've begun to kick around my head the idea of developing a
>> Cyberpunk-based RL, with the following source material as a guide:
>>
>> Games:
>> Shadowrun (SNES)
>> Deus Ex (1 only!)
>> System Shock (1+2)
>> Anachronox
>> Fallout 1+2 (for style, it won't be post-apoc though this theme needs
>> also
>> to be exploited! ;) 
>
>
> If you have Fallout 2, you can play free IansOut mod. It is on
> Sourceforge. I havent played it yet, but it may be interesting.
>
>> Literature:
>> Neuromancer (Wilson)
>> Snow Crash (Stephenson)
>> The Diamond Age (Stephenson)
>> Shadowrun PnP Sourcebooks
>>
>> Movies:
>> Blade Runner
>> Minority Report
>> The Fifth Element
>> The Matrix (for stylistic elements as well, not the setting (or is it?
>> ;)  ).
>
>
> I recommend "Avalon" movie, but it may be hard to get outside of my
> country. If you can bear it, you can watch some anime like "Vampire
> Hunter D Bloodlust" and *"Ghost in The Shell"*.

"Avalon" and "Ghost In The Shell" are a must see if one is doing a
Cyberpunk game. There are n excuses, the least one can do is download
them via a torrent or DC++.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It's much easier to make an army of dumb good people than to
make one single smart good guy..." -- DarkGod
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 8:06:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Nolithius wrote:
> Games:
> Shadowrun (SNES)
> Deus Ex (1 only!)

What is bad about Deus Ex 2? (I didn't play it, and as I really liked
the first game, I wondered wether to buy 2 :-/).

> Movies:
> Blade Runner
> Minority Report
> The Fifth Element
> The Matrix (for stylistic elements as well, not the setting (or is it? ;)  ).

Add in Ghost In The Shell -- a must see. And Avalon.
Ever heard of Tekwar (both game and series)? It was definitevly to
bright, but inspiring IMHO.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Come on, Kornel. 11 years and no binary? And it's not
vapourware?" -- Mike Blackney
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 9:23:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Nolithius w wiadomosci
news:SVihe.440$w21.129@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net pisze, co nastepuje:
>
>
> However, I've begun to kick around my head the idea of developing a
> Cyberpunk-based RL, with the following source material as a guide:
>

What a coincidence. A similar idea has been haunting me for about a month
now, with one major difference in that I'd like to play a light hearthed
game, a parody of some kind.

> Deus Ex (1 only!)

The second one is indeed too apocalyptic (and is a poor game, by the way),
but if you're looking for a really dark reality with no actual do-gooders,
Invisible War is the way to go. The first Deus Ex is a little naive in this
regard (but is much better as a game, and has a better story).

> System Shock (1+2)

I like System Shock 2's character development scheme. I think it's a good
formula to take example from.

What I would also take from Deus Ex and System Shock, is the focus game
mechanic takes on combat and utilitary skills. There is no such stat as
"charisma", for example. I think this can work well in a roguelike, because
roguelike gameplay is focused on combat, rather than social interactions.

> Fallout 1+2 (for style, it won't be post-apoc though this theme needs also
> to be exploited! ;) 
>

It's good to know there are still people who appreciate these two games.
When I play modern computer RPGs, I get the impression that everyone except
me thinks games like Fallout are obsolete.

I was thinking about all this post-apoc stuff, and I had an idea which seems
both post-apocalyptic and "cyberpunkish" at the same time. The great
worldwide disaster doesn't really need too mean a great worldwide
destruction. For instance, a Big Bad Corporation of some kind could
acccidentally introduce a mutagen (or a set of mutagens) which rapidly
speeds up forest growth. It could also influence some animals, making them
bigger and stronger (anyone asked for mutants?). It's only a matter of
months, before all but the largest urban areas are overrun with rabid
wildlife. So, after some time there is that dense, deadly forest, laying
"sieges" around separated metropolies. A setting like this gives you all
major cyberpunk and post-apocalyptic features: lack of resources,
civilization on the verge of collapse (the forest claims another city
district every day), dangerous wastelands, advanced technology (I don't
think they would survive for long without synth foods, for example), social
tensions (such as anti-mutant paranoia, lack of strong goverment, economic
collapse), and so on. Plus, you have a good excuse for really diverse
"dungeons" (city streets, secret laboratories, suburbs, city ruins, forests,
secret villages of those who managed to adapt to new environment, and so
on).

The only viable way of mass inter-municipal transit would be the railway.
Air travel's popularity would be limited by fuel cost. So, the trains would
be very important and railway companies would become very powerful. The
private railway security force would be probably the largest and best army
in the area, because they would be engaged in constant struggle to keep
railways safe from wildlife.

> Movies:
> Blade Runner
> Minority Report

While it would be great to see a game with a well developed story, it would
also be very difficult to make one. Especially a roguelike. But hey, what
would our lives be without a bit of challenge, right?

> The Fifth Element
> The Matrix (for stylistic elements as well, not the setting (or is it?
> ;)  ).
>

I guess you will have to make a tough choice here. The Fifth Element is
flashy, colorful and parodist, while Matrix is quite the opposite. I think I
would mix Matrix aesthetics with Fith Element's mood.

>
> What features would you like to see in a Cyberpunk Roguelike?

1. The Cyberspace, that's for sure! Just think of how many Usenet-related
puns you could fit in there. ;-)

2. Implants! I think there is an opportunity for interesting character
development choice - natural skills versus mechanical substitutes. I think
implants shouldn't be just upgrades. They should have disadvantages as well,
such as vulnerability to EMP weapons or risk of being killed by ICE during
hacking attempt.

3. Laser guns and plasma weapons! Railguns! EMP grenades! Homemade weapon
upgrades! Who cares about realism, anyway. :-)

4. AIs gone mad. I once had an idea of an AI who acccidentally linked to a
dictionary, then took over city's security system, and then started to kill
people who made typos and grammar errors in their e-mails.

5. Mechs! 3-legged, 4-legged and 6-legged mechs! I think mechs are like
tables - you can't make a 2-legged table and expect it not to topple.

6. NPCs. Deus Ex, from mechanistic point of view, is mostly about fighting,
but as a whole it's mostly about listening and talking to people. I like
that. Besides, cyberpunk isn't really about cyborgs, cyberspace etc. It's
about people. There should be real people in a cyberpunk game, not just some
cannon fodder.

7. A conspiracy. Preferably, more than one. A psi-dog who took over populist
politician's brain and tries to wipe out all cats (hey, that's not a joke,
some politicians do behave as if they were posessed by need of having a full
bowl at all times!). Or a railway company who try to perform coup d'etat
(they already have an army, right?). Or mutated outcasts who managed to
survive in the forest and now take revenge on "civilization". Now that I
think of it, I think you should include a series of "Thief" games in your
reference. They're something I would risk to call "cyberpunk a'la Middle
Ages", and they also use this "rural vs urban" concept. I recommend the
second part, "The Metal Age", as the best one (it's also a few years old, so
it should run fine even on not-so-modern PCs). A major problem with
conspiracies in roguelikes is that conspiracy should be a surprise, and
there can be no surprise when you play a game for 147387324th time. At least
some randomness would be necessary.

8. Sneaking. Frankly, this is my little idee fixe - to make a game, in which
you don't have to fight at all, if you are stealthy enough. This would
require a few other features, such as a goal-based character development
system, rather than an action-based one (in other words: character is
rewarded for completing quests, instead of getting experience for every
enemy killed or lock picked).

9. Multi-layer maps. Most roguelikes (actually, all roguelikes I've seen so
far) use single-layer maps. UFO Enemy Unknown, Jagged Alliance and Silent
Storm are examples of turn-based, tile-based games with multi-layer maps. I
do know it's difficult to make a roguelike with multi-layer maps, but I
think it's impossible to make a good urban combat simulation without them.

Pozdr.

--
Jacek "Zillameth" Weso³owski
zill@jimp.neostrada.pl
FAQ grupy prgk.rpg - http://faq.prgk.net/rpg.txt
"If you back up, it won't matter if you screw up."
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 9:55:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz w wiadomosci news:D 650h2$kch$1@inews.gazeta.pl pisze,
co nastepuje:

> What is bad about Deus Ex 2? (I didn't play it, and as I really liked the
> first game, I wondered wether to buy 2 :-/).
>

It has been "streamlined". That's how developer called it. No skills. You
can replace any implant with another, if you get bored with it. A single
common ammo type for all weapons. No bullet dispertion and hardly any
recoil. Very few side quests after you leave Seattle. A story you can hardly
get involved in, because nobody is likeable. It only takes about twelve
hours to win, and at the end you will quite likely feel cheated, because
game mocks all the choices it previously forced you to make, and offers you
four endings, all of which are bad[1]. A highly inconsistent story. Small,
cramped levels that could be better, but are not, because the game had to
fit into XBox' small memory (it only has 64 MB of RAM, and after you load
Unreal Engine, there is only about 7-8 MB left for actual game content). And
a few small but fustrating bugs, such as NPC making long pauses during
conversations (feels like watching a very poor highschool performance).

In other words, they turned a very good action-RPG hybrid into a very
ordinary first person shooter.

Pozdr.
[1] SPOILER. The choices are: a fundamentalist totalitarian regime, two
kinds of hidden enslavement and total extinction of humankind.

--
Jacek "Zillameth" Weso³owski
zill@jimp.neostrada.pl
FAQ grupy prgk.rpg - http://faq.prgk.net/rpg.txt
"Let me tell You once more, You're the one I adore, You're my C-64"
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 10:19:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Sources :

Stand on Zanzibar ,
novels based on ShadowRun.
"Never deal with a dragon"

T.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 11:14:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

> You might wanna take a look at Uplink for a bit of inspiration, at least
> AFA "hacking" goes:
> http://www.uplink.co.uk/
>
> There's a free demo, gives you a limited amount of game time (not real
> time; not connected) before you have to restart - check the "Demo" page.

Yes, this is a great game. I totally forgot to mention it (I own the full
version). It's ironic because this game was probably my main inspiration. ;) 


> >Literature:
> >Neuromancer (Wilson)
>
> Neuromancer was written by William Gibson - methinks you got his name a
> wee bit mixed-up. <g>

Yes, you're right. :p 

[...]

> >Also, feel free to reccomend additional sources (the setting time and
> >technology-wise is that of Snow Crash/Neuromancer, that is to say, no
more
> >than 100 years into the future).
>
> For a grim mood, you may want to read _I Am Legend_ by Richard Matheson.
> It was made into a movie in 1963 - "The Last Man on Earth", starring
> Vincent Price - and [apparently] another one under a different title
> (can't remember) was done in the 90's. "Johnny Mnemonic" was... uh,
> well, see it, maybe you'll see something worth using.
> --
> auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
> *****
> GRUE BAIT

Thanks a lot.

--Nolithius
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 11:19:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

[...]
> "Avalon" and "Ghost In The Shell" are a must see if one is doing a
> Cyberpunk game. There are n excuses, the least one can do is download
> them via a torrent or DC++.
[...]

Ghost in the Shell is another movie I forgot to mention-- and yes it is
great for inspiration.

I'll look into that avalon one.

Thanks again :) .

--Nolithius
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 11:26:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Milesss" <milesssREMOVE@interia.pl> wrote in message
news:D 64sk8$u93$1@news.interia.pl...
[...]
> I'm not as stubborn as you. I started my C++ RL, but now I'm working
> mostly on my web page. And it's no enough: I also maintain blog (see
> signature), make music, and work on web page for someone else. I wonder
> which of these things will I finish.

"Stubborn"? I prefer "Strong-willed" ;) 


[...]
> If you have Fallout 2, you can play free IansOut mod. It is on
> Sourceforge. I havent played it yet, but it may be interesting.

I'll look into it, what is it about?


[...]
> I recommend "Avalon" movie, but it may be hard to get outside of my
> country. If you can bear it, you can watch some anime like "Vampire
> Hunter D Bloodlust" and *"Ghost in The Shell"*.
>
> And "Animatrix" too.

Ghost in the Shell is excellent, definitely a source of inspiration. I'll
look into Avalon and Animatrix. I've seen Vampire Hunter D and Bloodlust and
uh... they have absolutely nothing to do with Cyberpunk (not even remotely
;) 


[...]
> Drugs. I can't imagine cyberbunk without drugs. They could give
> temporary positive effect, and then some more longterm negative side
effect.

Yes, drugs are essential. Lots of them, lots of dealers and addicts!


> You could add some more violence and its verbose description.

I'd like to do something like in Liberal Crime Squad, where there is
bodypart damage and really gory descriptions (You hit the Security Guard's
head and totally BLOW IT APART.) har har, priceless.

Thanks for your comments.

--Nolithius
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 11:26:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 19:26:20 GMT, "Nolithius" <Nolithius@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>"Milesss" <milesssREMOVE@interia.pl> wrote in message
>news:D 64sk8$u93$1@news.interia.pl...
>
>> I recommend "Avalon" movie, but it may be hard to get outside of my
>> country. If you can bear it, you can watch some anime like "Vampire
>> Hunter D Bloodlust" and *"Ghost in The Shell"*.
>>
>> And "Animatrix" too.
>
>Ghost in the Shell is excellent, definitely a source of inspiration. I'll
>look into Avalon and Animatrix. I've seen Vampire Hunter D and Bloodlust and
>uh... they have absolutely nothing to do with Cyberpunk (not even remotely
>;)

I can't believe I forgot GITS. Great story, good games, etc.

You might also want to check out the Appleseed manga series. The mood is
a tiny bit lighter than GITS, but it's still excellent.

>> Drugs. I can't imagine cyberbunk without drugs. They could give
>> temporary positive effect, and then some more longterm negative side
>effect.
>
>Yes, drugs are essential. Lots of them, lots of dealers and addicts!

Dealers? Why not vending machines? Or convenience stores? "Yeah, I'll
take a pack of smokes, a fifth of vodka, a 6-pack of uppers, and some
bubble gum." Then walk next door to the weapons shop. <g>
--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
Thufir's a Harkonnen now.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 11:47:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Lucas Ackerman" <glitch@gweep.net> wrote in message
news:1116098574.855753.58900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> To be honest, in the worst kind of way, cyberpunk is so cliche nowadays
> that it's become a sad parody of itself. It's a very longtime interest
> of mine, so I'm probably among it's strongest critics. I think hard
> science fiction in general offers a much broader palette than cyberpunk
> alone, but it does have its place.
[...]

I'm not even going to touch that with a 10-foot pole.

But thanks for your reccomendations, nonetheless ;) 
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 3:20:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Zillameth napisa³(a):
> Nolithius w wiadomosci
> news:SVihe.440$w21.129@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net pisze, co
> nastepuje:

:) 

[...]

>
> I was thinking about all this post-apoc stuff, and I had an idea which
> seems both post-apocalyptic and "cyberpunkish" at the same time. The
> great worldwide disaster doesn't really need too mean a great worldwide
> destruction. For instance, a Big Bad Corporation of some kind could
> acccidentally introduce a mutagen (or a set of mutagens) which rapidly
> speeds up forest growth.

Underwater Tunel and Genetrix Vesana?

> It could also influence some animals, making
> them bigger and stronger (anyone asked for mutants?). It's only a matter
> of months, before all but the largest urban areas are overrun with rabid
> wildlife. So, after some time there is that dense, deadly forest, laying
> "sieges" around separated metropolies. A setting like this gives you all
> major cyberpunk and post-apocalyptic features: lack of resources,

I like the "Jungle Adventure" theme, but I prefer realism. How can
normal human dipped in some glowing green liquid mutate so quickly to
super mutant, which is three times bigger (mass of substrates is equal
to mass of products)?

> civilization on the verge of collapse (the forest claims another city
> district every day), dangerous wastelands, advanced technology (I don't
> think they would survive for long without synth foods, for example),
> social tensions (such as anti-mutant paranoia, lack of strong goverment,
> economic collapse), and so on. Plus, you have a good excuse for really
> diverse "dungeons" (city streets, secret laboratories, suburbs, city
> ruins, forests, secret villages of those who managed to adapt to new
> environment, and so on).

I think that the most dungeon-like city part are sewers. Especially
these old.

>
> The only viable way of mass inter-municipal transit would be the
> railway. Air travel's popularity would be limited by fuel cost. So, the
> trains would be very important and railway companies would become very
> powerful. The private railway security force would be probably the
> largest and best army in the area, because they would be engaged in
> constant struggle to keep railways safe from wildlife.
>

What about caravans?

[...]

> 5. Mechs! 3-legged, 4-legged and 6-legged mechs! I think mechs are like
> tables - you can't make a 2-legged table and expect it not to topple.
>
I have seen 1-legged table too :)  (jumping mechs?).

[...]

> 8. Sneaking. Frankly, this is my little idee fixe - to make a game, in
> which you don't have to fight at all, if you are stealthy enough. This
> would require a few other features, such as a goal-based character
> development system, rather than an action-based one (in other words:
> character is rewarded for completing quests, instead of getting
> experience for every enemy killed or lock picked).
>
These are my favourite quests in Fallout.

[...]

> Pozdr.

--
Milesss
m i l e s s s @ i n t e r i a . p l
www.milesss.mylog.pl
"/0"
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 4:00:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:55:05 +0200, "Zillameth" <zill@jimp.neostrada.pl>
wrote:

>Kornel Kisielewicz w wiadomosci news:D 650h2$kch$1@inews.gazeta.pl pisze,
>co nastepuje:
>
>> What is bad about Deus Ex 2? (I didn't play it, and as I really liked the
>> first game, I wondered wether to buy 2 :-/).
>>
>
>It has been "streamlined". That's how developer called it. No skills. You
>can replace any implant with another, if you get bored with it.

Actually, there isn't really any need to replace the biomods. There are
known paths that grant complete stealth to the player and allow completing
the game with minimal effort (once you max out those choices - which
shouldn't take too long.)

>A single common ammo type for all weapons.

Not a problem - however, there was a problem with ammo being on the "light"
side, making it very difficult to fight your way through most of the game.

The system works better for things such as energy weapons or some other
strange thing that is capable of using generic ammunition. The description
used in Deus Ex doesn't feel right for some reason, as it still seems to
require ammunition clips but doesn't implement reloading of any sort.

>No bullet dispertion and hardly any recoil.

Actually, there was bullet dispertion for the SMG and Shotgun, even though
it is considered minor.

The real problem was the removal of inaccurracy.

>[1] SPOILER. The choices are: a fundamentalist totalitarian regime, two
>kinds of hidden enslavement and total extinction of humankind.

I wouldn't consider it total extinction - rather the cutscene implies that
humanity was "upgraded" to handle basically any environment after the
following centuries of warfare. It's more like a post-apopcaliptic ending.
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 4:22:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Nolithius wrote:
*SNIP*
> What features would you like to see in a Cyberpunk Roguelike? Be as specific
> or as broad as you want, I'm only brainstorming and doing preliminary design
> at the moment (gotta keep my vow! ;) .
>
> Also, feel free to reccomend additional sources (the setting time and
> technology-wise is that of Snow Crash/Neuromancer, that is to say, no more
> than 100 years into the future).

Just bladerunner, use all possible sources, extend
that universe, make some great detective plots etc
I would prefer a focused game rather than a disparate
one - but this is just my preference in this case.

--
ABCGi ---- (abcgi@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - Shuruppak - TheTombs
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 7:30:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Nolithius wrote:
> I'd like to do something like in Liberal Crime Squad, where there is
> bodypart damage and really gory descriptions (You hit the Security Guard's
> head and totally BLOW IT APART.) har har, priceless.

Where's the goriness there? I'd expect *at least* a description of the
color of the skull fragments stuck to the wall behind the dead guard by
brain matter. :) 

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 7:32:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Auric__ wrote:
> I saw the first movie in theaters, right before I saw Star Wars Episode
> I: The Phantom Plotline. The Matrix ruined Star Wars for me. :/ 

How so? And wasn't the subtitle "The Phantom Menace"?

> The I-can't-spell-their-name Brothers

Wachowski. Wachowski. For the third time, Wachowski.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 7:32:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Sun, 15 May 2005 03:32:50 -0400, Twisted One
<twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

>Auric__ wrote:
>> I saw the first movie in theaters, right before I saw Star Wars Episode
>> I: The Phantom Plotline. The Matrix ruined Star Wars for me. :/ 
>
>How so? And wasn't the subtitle "The Phantom Menace"?

Jar Jar Binks. 8-year-old Anakin. "I'm going to marry you someday." Yes.

>> The I-can't-spell-their-name Brothers
>
>Wachowski. Wachowski. For the third time, Wachowski.

You tell me three times, so it must be true? <g>
--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
WIIGII!
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 8:49:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Auric__ wrote:
>>How so? And wasn't the subtitle "The Phantom Menace"?
>
> Jar Jar Binks. 8-year-old Anakin. "I'm going to marry you someday." Yes.

So what? The Matrix had a love subplot as well. And the original SW
movies had humor-oriented characters. C3PO comes to mind.

I think what critics of the prequels are missing can be summed up in
three words...

Harrison Ford.
Millennium Falcon.
Unconvoluted plot.

But The Prequels Are Not The Sequels (tm).

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 8:49:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Sun, 15 May 2005 04:49:00 -0400, Twisted One
<twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

>Auric__ wrote:
>>>How so? And wasn't the subtitle "The Phantom Menace"?
>>
>> Jar Jar Binks. 8-year-old Anakin. "I'm going to marry you someday." Yes.
>
>So what? The Matrix had a love subplot as well.

It wasn't the fact of its existence, it's the way Lucas handled it.

>And the original SW
>movies had humor-oriented characters. C3PO comes to mind.

C3PO was in episode 1 - that's all the humor we need.

>I think what critics of the prequels are missing can be summed up in
>three words...

I rather liked episode 2, just not episode 1.

>Harrison Ford.

Since his character would need to be no older than his early teens (and
perhaps even younger) at the end of episode 3, that's not very likely,
especially in episode 1.

>Millennium Falcon.

Eh... it's a big freighter, not really suited to dogfighting and
whatnot.

>Unconvoluted plot.

I don't see that the prequels have overly complex plots.

>But The Prequels Are Not The Sequels (tm).

No, but I'm wondering if Lucas is going to want to remake them. ISTR
that he's already said he won't, but...
--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
Monopoly? No, we just don't want competition.
-- Microsoft
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 9:31:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Milesss wrote:
> I like the "Jungle Adventure" theme, but I prefer realism. How can
> normal human dipped in some glowing green liquid mutate so quickly to
> super mutant, which is three times bigger (mass of substrates is equal
> to mass of products)?

Who said anything about mass? Think of a baloon. Those can get more than
three times bigger.

Of course, mass can get bigger over time by eating a lot. ("First comes
the ravenous hunger. Then come the disturbing changes...")

> What about caravans?

You try getting a caravan through jungle sometime.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 12:07:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:jfadnX2uXoYbZxvfRVn-3A@rogers.com...
> Nolithius wrote:
> > I'd like to do something like in Liberal Crime Squad, where there is
> > bodypart damage and really gory descriptions (You hit the Security
Guard's
> > head and totally BLOW IT APART.) har har, priceless.
>
> Where's the goriness there? I'd expect *at least* a description of the
> color of the skull fragments stuck to the wall behind the dead guard by
> brain matter. :) 
>
> --
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
> Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
> "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
> One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
>


Well, that's just a frame of reference. I want to achieve a much more
gritty/noir feel than that (mind you, it comes from a satirical game).

More details to follow ;) 

--Nolithius
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 12:07:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Nolithius wrote:
> Well, that's just a frame of reference. I want to achieve a much more
> gritty/noir feel than that (mind you, it comes from a satirical game).

That might be difficult. (Why did you quote my .sig?)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 1:47:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Auric__ wrote:
> C3PO was in episode 1

For all of two minutes.

> Since his character would need to be no older than his early teens (and
> perhaps even younger) at the end of episode 3, that's not very likely,
> especially in episode 1.

True. I just think that's what a lot of people miss when they find the
prequels seem "un-Star-Warsish".

> I don't see that the prequels have overly complex plots.

No, but I think some critics do. Or overly subtle?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 5:02:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Sun, 15 May 2005 09:47:00 -0400, Twisted One
<twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

>Auric__ wrote:
>> C3PO was in episode 1
>
>For all of two minutes.

....which was more than enough. Except for the beginning of the original
movie, and the beginning of Return of the Jedi, there was no attempt to
make C3PO anything more than one of the "also-there" characters.

>> Since his character would need to be no older than his early teens (and
>> perhaps even younger) at the end of episode 3, that's not very likely,
>> especially in episode 1.
>
>True. I just think that's what a lot of people miss when they find the
>prequels seem "un-Star-Warsish".

As Lucas said when ep. 1 came out, the series isn't about Luke &
friends, it's about Anakin. [shrug] Ford wanted Han Solo to die in
Empire Strikes Back - and I think it would've worked just fine.

>> I don't see that the prequels have overly complex plots.
>
>No, but I think some critics do. Or overly subtle?

Feh. To paraphrase Lucas again, it's about the rise, fall, and
redemption of Anakin. Pretty straightforward IMO.
--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
VIRUS NAME: ArmaGeddyLee, HappyOrMaybeNot00, OopsWrongButton00
TRANSMITTAL METHOD: VBScript attached to e-mail
HAZARD: Extremely Super High
AREA OF INFECTION: Detected in wild
CHARACTERISTICS: Destroys life on earth via nuclear armageddon
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 11:38:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Zillameth wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz w wiadomosci news:D 650h2$kch$1@inews.gazeta.pl pisze,
> co nastepuje:
>
>> What is bad about Deus Ex 2? (I didn't play it, and as I really liked
>> the first game, I wondered wether to buy 2 :-/).
*snip*
> In other words, they turned a very good action-RPG hybrid into a very
> ordinary first person shooter.

Ugly :-(. And DeusEx 1 was brilliant IMHO...

> Pozdr.
> [1] SPOILER. The choices are: a fundamentalist totalitarian regime, two
> kinds of hidden enslavement and total extinction of humankind.

That's something I actually like ;-). There is no lesser evil ;-).
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"From what I've read, a lot of people believe that GenRogue
exists and will be released some day" -- Arxenia Xentrophore
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 12:23:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"R. Dan Henry" <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote in message
news:euse811q64en90qscnpigk5stt50tjfbq8@4ax.com...
[snip a great post]


Thanks a lot for your contribution and consolidation of contributions. Truly
a helpful and insightful post. If only all responses would be like this,
instead of degrading into discussions about StarWars or The Matrix.

Thanks a lot once again.

--Nolithius
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 12:24:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Milesss w wiadomo¶ci news:D 673dc$j4j$1@news.interia.pl pisze, co
nastêpuje:


>> Nolithius w wiadomosci
>> news:SVihe.440$w21.129@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net pisze, co
>> nastepuje:
>
> :) 
>

We are everywhere. Our numbers are growing. Each year there are more and
more of us lurking in the depths of Usenet. Each day another one is added to
our ranks. We will prevail, eventually. One day we will take over rgrd, rgr*
and all of the Usenet!

[Insert some devillish laughter here.]

> I like the "Jungle Adventure" theme, but I prefer realism. How can normal
> human dipped in some glowing green liquid mutate so quickly to super
> mutant, which is three times bigger (mass of substrates is equal to mass
> of products)?
>

Hmmm, I guess we could ask that question to Fallout devteam. Seriously,
though, I don't think this needs to be instant. It could take a few years,
or even generations, why not? I said "a matter of months" previously, but
this assumption can be relaxed.

I think there is possibility to make two different games. One of them could
take place during the disaster. The player could witness everything falling
apart. The other game could take place after 30 or 40 years, when the global
situation is more or less stable again, but also very different from today.

>
> I think that the most dungeon-like city part are sewers. Especially these
> old.
>

I think you're right, but old houses aren't all that different either (only
more vertical). I used to live in a pre-WWII villa turned into tenement
house. It was a small child's paradise, especially the garden and the
basement.

>>
>> The only viable way of mass inter-municipal transit would be the railway.
>> Air travel's popularity would be limited by fuel cost. So, the trains
>> would be very important and railway companies would become very powerful.
>> The private railway security force would be probably the largest and best
>> army in the area, because they would be engaged in constant struggle to
>> keep railways safe from wildlife.
>>
>
> What about caravans?
>

Going on foot would take too much time and would be too dangerous. Going by
car would be very difficult, or even impossible, due to poor state of road
network. A train, especially a technologically advanced one, is very fast,
and thus relatively safe. You can also load lots of cargo on a single train,
making it easier to defend. Now that I think of it, a train is, actually, a
kind of caravan. :-)

> [...]
>
>> 5. Mechs! 3-legged, 4-legged and 6-legged mechs! I think mechs are like
>> tables - you can't make a 2-legged table and expect it not to topple.
>>
> I have seen 1-legged table too :)  (jumping mechs?).
>

ROTFL. :-D If I ever make a cyberpunk parody, I'm going to include 1-legged
mechs. You are hereby granted the right to beat me 256 times with a LAN
cable, if I forget to give you the credit.

Pozdr.

--
Jacek "Zillameth" Weso³owski
zill@jimp.neostrada.pl
"[...]certane substinsays can be appleyed to rmur to countervoid
the effects of poyzins used by an oponunt."
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 4:59:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

R. Dan Henry wrote:
> Movies:
> Blade Runner
> Minority Report
> The Fifth Element
> The Matrix
> Tron
> Robocop (and sequels)
> Avalon
> Ghost in the Shell
> Animatrix
> Tetsuo 2: Body Hammer

Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It's much easier to make an army of dumb good people than to
make one single smart good guy..." -- DarkGod
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 4:59:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)

As in Fubuki? Yeah she's kinda hot. Uh, what was the topic again?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 10:30:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Twisted One wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)
>
>
> As in Fubuki? Yeah she's kinda hot. Uh, what was the topic again?

Nah, the Akira anime movie ;-). But I guess, you're completely
antimangish, so you wouldn't know ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It's much easier to make an army of dumb good people than to
make one single smart good guy..." -- DarkGod
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 12:31:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Sun, 15 May 2005 20:24:32 +0200,
Zillameth napisal(a):

> Milesss w wiadomo¶ci news:D 673dc$j4j$1@news.interia.pl pisze, co
> nastêpuje:

> ROTFL. :-D If I ever make a cyberpunk parody, I'm going to include 1-legged
> mechs. You are hereby granted the right to beat me 256 times with a LAN
> cable, if I forget to give you the credit.

Copper or BNC?
Maybe fiberoptics? Ouch, that *hurts*! ;) 

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 12:46:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Dnia Sun, 15 May 2005 11:39:16 -0700,
R Dan Henry napisal(a):

> Performance-enhancing drugs that have a cumulative
> deterioration effect. "live now, pay later..."

You can have it as potions, pills, iniections, etc. but I think the most
cuberpunkish and cool options is to have them in form of derms and
inhalers.

> Literature:
> Neuromancer (Gibson)
> Count Zero (Gibson)
> Mona Lisa Overdrive (Gibson)
> Snow Crash (Stephenson)
> The Diamond Age (Stephenson)
> Tekwar series ("Shatner", later TV show, computer game)
> "Altered Carbon" by Richard Morgan

More Gibson's books!

I'd add some manga. Definitely cyberpunkish:
Ghost in the Shell
GITS 2 - Man-machine interface

Great source for modern and future combat and weapons:
Appleseed, Black Magic
Battle Angel Alita, GUNNM - Last Order, Ashen Victor
Blame!, Noise, Biomega
Syrius Scars
Eden
Red Eyes

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 5:31:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep w wiadomo¶ci news:slrnd8gmiq.7vf.sheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl
pisze, co nastêpuje:

>
> Copper or BNC?
> Maybe fiberoptics? Ouch, that *hurts*! ;) 
>

Well, since making that cyberpunk parody may take anywhere from 2 to 50
years and technology can change several times until then, I guess it's
better to leave that question open. My back is already aching. ;-)

Pozdr.

--
Jacek "Zillameth" Weso³owski
zill@jimp.neostrada.pl
FAQ grupy prgk.rpg - http://faq.prgk.net/rpg.txt
"Sometimes you have to, uh, break up the team - Carlsson & Peters, p824"
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 5:41:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005, Ray Dillinger wrote:
> Nolithius wrote:
>> "Unable to find thread. Please recheck the URL"
>
> Grrr. A munged version can be viewed at:
<snip>

You shoulda done what it said --- recheck the URL. ;)  Removing
the extraneous '%' yields the correct Message-ID:
ltUZc.11729$54.162254@typhoon.sonic.net
and accompanying URL
http://groups.google.es/groups?threadm=ltUZc.11729$54.162254@typhoon.sonic.net

HTH,
-Arthur
--
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ajo/dont-be-evil.htm...
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 6:04:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Quoting Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address>:
>Superman(tm)!" And a 3-minute fight scene (in the park, against the
>Smiths) that was mostly computer-generated and should have taken less
>than 30 seconds.

The only reason it wasn't worse was that Keanu Reeves is so incredibly
wooden you can't tell him from a CGI Reeves very easily.

Kill Bill, now, that's how to do a fight with a hundred bad guys.

>The I-can't-spell-their-name Brothers should have
>stopped with the first movie and gone on to something else, like anime,
>where their computer-generated stuff would've been appreciated.

Pfft - speaking as a fanboy, the last thing I want is more of that Gonzo
[1] plasticy psuedo-real CGI; what I want is stuff like FLCL where no one
frame is distinguishable from cel animation...

[1] A studio, nothing to do with HST.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Gloucesterday, May.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 6:11:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
>Add in Ghost In The Shell -- a must see. And Avalon.

Serial Experiments Lain, for something recognisably cyberpunky without the
usual Gibsonian drivel.

[And, heh-heh, Bubblegum Crisis - I'll recommend classic, and you can
recommend 2040...]
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Gloucesterday, May.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 6:23:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
>Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)

It's grossly overrated - and everyone's seen it, because it's grossly
overrated. :-)
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Gloucesterday, May.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 6:27:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Sun, 15 May 2005, Twisted One wrote:
>
> Nolithius wrote:
>> I'd like to do something like in Liberal Crime Squad, where there is
>> bodypart damage and really gory descriptions (You hit the Security Guard's
>> head and totally BLOW IT APART.) har har, priceless.
>
> Where's the goriness there? I'd expect *at least* a description of the color
> of the skull fragments stuck to the wall behind the dead guard by brain
> matter. :) 

One of the defining aspects of (good) cyberpunk literature, IMHO, and
speaking only of English-language literature --- I don't know how it
might have mutated in other languages --- is the cleverness of the
descriptions. It's not so much /gore/ as /metaphor/ and /detail/. For
example,

>> You hit the Security Guard's head and totally BLOW IT APART.

might become

You squeeze the trigger. There is a noise like a fat lady stepping
on a frog, and suddenly the security guard's head is plastered
over a square meter of wall.

or

With a pop, some kind of spidery crimson rune appears on the guard's
forehead. Before you can look closer, he collapses in a heap and the
rune starts a slow drip onto the 3/16-gauge polyester weave.[1]

Now, I'm not denying that "totally BLOW IT APART" couldn't find a
place in a cyberpunk narrative (skater-punk?). ;-) But I think it
would be incredibly difficult to translate this aspect of cyberpunk
to roguelike terms --- instead of merely having William Gibson or
Neal Stephenson be cleverer than the reader, you'd have to have the
/game/ be cleverer than the reader, and replayably. That's tricky.

You might be able to pull off something like the old "Colossal Cave"
adventure with its Volcano View: find some event or location that the
player is likely to reach about once per game, and stick the clever
bits there. E.g., the first time the player gets in his ultrasleek-
yet-unapologetic car, say something clever. When he meets a unique NPC,
say something clever. Et cetera.

my $.02,
-Arthur

[1] - There is a surprising lack of technical carpeting terminology
on the Web. I take no responsibility for mental anguish caused by
my too-ambitious prose.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 7:28:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
>
>>Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)
>
> It's grossly overrated - and everyone's seen it, because it's grossly
> overrated. :-)

Why do you think so? I enjoyed it...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"The name of GenRogue, has become a warning against excessively
complex design." -- RGRD FAQ
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 7:28:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>David Damerell wrote:
>> Quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
>>
>>>Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)
>>
>> It's grossly overrated - and everyone's seen it, because it's grossly
>> overrated. :-)
>
>Why do you think so? I enjoyed it...

I *enjoyed* Akira, but I agree that it's grossly overrated. There are
armies of wannabe fanboys out there who've seen Akira, Dragonball Z, and
Urotsukidoji and on this basis proclaim Akira to be TEH BEST THNIG
EVAH!!!!11!!!one, which it patently isn't.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.ht...
bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce bounce bounce bounce.
!