[ANN] Tower of Doom 0.4.0 released

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The best TOD ever is out!

Downloads at:
http://todoom.sourceforge.net/


Tower of Doom 0.3.1 -> 0.4.0 Change Log


Bugfixes
-------------------------------------------------------------
+ Doombreed's death script was broken. This caused
effects like the final exit stairs being unreachable.
Fixed.
+ It was possible to talk to paralysed characters. Fixed.
+ The numberpad didn't work as expected. Fixed.


Changes
-------------------------------------------------------------

+ Improved "monster list"
+ Implemented Mark of Slaanesh
+ Removed Haggle ability (I've decided that haggling is
out of theme)
+ Added new item type: Note
+ Added bones (used to "decorate" levels)
+ Replaced the "Rest" command with a new "Recover/Wait"
command. It's now possible to recover (i.e. restore health)
while enemies are nearby.
+ New Command: Switch Characters
It is now possible to switch between the characters in your party.
That means you can choose which character you want to control.
This also allows you to equip and advance your companions.
+ New (early) recruitable NPC: Igor (a big dumb mutant).
+ Reworked character development system (careers are gone!).
+ UI improvements
+ New psychic power: Terrify
+ New stimm: Brav'ry
+ New ability: Fearless
+ New item: C'tan Phase Sword (ignores armour)
+ New damage system: The new system has a higher "resolution" than
the old one (i.e. swords and axes do different amounts of damage now).
+ Misc. minor changes

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

This was pretty fun for a couple of hours. Some bugs:

1. Segfault when using 'repair unjammed weapon' through the skill menu.
Happens every time on my system.

2. Using 'concentrate' gives EP.

3. Party members don't catch up to the main character if he's resting.

Also, the pink party member killed all shopkeepers. I don't know if
that's a bug or not.

 

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<mccb3@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1119220288.434625.34740@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This was pretty fun for a couple of hours. Some bugs:
>
> 1. Segfault when using 'repair unjammed weapon' through the skill menu.
> Happens every time on my system.

Confirmed. "Repair Jammed Weapon" shouldn't show up in that menu.

> 2. Using 'concentrate' gives EP.

Not a bug. Design decision.

> 3. Party members don't catch up to the main character if he's resting.

That's because the recover command automatically tells your companions to
recover, too. At the moment they only ignore that order if there are enemies
in LOS.
Maybe I'll make them catch up to the PC once they are fully healed...

> Also, the pink party member killed all shopkeepers. I don't know if
> that's a bug or not.

Not a bug. The "shopkeepers" are rogue traders and the "pink party member"
is an inquisitor who doesn't like such folks at all.

Thank you for your feedback,
copx

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

'Concentrate' can be exploited to gain unlimited EP on the spot. Each
activation gives you 10 EP. You can only do it three times in a row,
but this can be reset by 'trigger'ing an empty square.

Matthew

 

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copx wrote:
> You can also gain unlimited EP by using "Iron Skin" or "Freeze". This is a
> trade-off. I wanted psykers to be able to gain EP without having to kill
> stuff to make playing a "support psyker" (who supports a combat-focused
> character) possible. Scumming is possible in all games, just don't do it if
> you don't want to.

Hold on. There's a pretty big difference between this and "scumming",
which is basically another word for "cheating".

Take savescumming. It's an out-of-game activity. There's no in-game
facility for doing it. You have to go outside of the game and
deliberately mess with files.

Also, either you restore a saved game or you don't. You can't restore a
saved game just a little. There's an obvious, unambiguous line that one
has to cross to be a save-scummer.

On the other hand, gaining unlimited EP whenever you want is an in-game
activity. It's specifically allowed by the game, and you don't have to
externally mess with files to do it.

And it's on a continuous scale. How much free EP do I have to make
before it's "scumming"? 100? 100000000? There's no guideline.

What you have is an exploit. If you want the player to simply choose
how powerful they are, why not ask them how much free EP they want at
the beginning of the game?

Matthew

 

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<mccb3@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1119339952.253704.220580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> 'Concentrate' can be exploited to gain unlimited EP on the spot. Each
> activation gives you 10 EP. You can only do it three times in a row,
> but this can be reset by 'trigger'ing an empty square.

You can also gain unlimited EP by using "Iron Skin" or "Freeze". This is a
trade-off. I wanted psykers to be able to gain EP without having to kill
stuff to make playing a "support psyker" (who supports a combat-focused
character) possible. Scumming is possible in all games, just don't do it if
you don't want to.

copx

 

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mccb3@hotmail.com wrote:
> copx wrote:
> > You can also gain unlimited EP by using "Iron Skin" or "Freeze". This is a
> > trade-off. I wanted psykers to be able to gain EP without having to kill
> > stuff to make playing a "support psyker" (who supports a combat-focused
> > character) possible. Scumming is possible in all games, just don't do it if
> > you don't want to.
>
> Hold on. There's a pretty big difference between this and "scumming",
> which is basically another word for "cheating".
>
> Take savescumming. It's an out-of-game activity. There's no in-game
> facility for doing it. You have to go outside of the game and
> deliberately mess with files.

Actually, in POWDER, after you die, your save game is still available.
The "Load..." menu option is changed to "Save Scum...", however.

Thus, save scumming *can* be integrated in a game and still be save
scumming.
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)

 

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copx wrote:
> No, scumming in general doesn't mean cheating. "Savescumming" is the
> exception, not the rule. ...

OK, point taken.

> You can boost your strength, character level and
> acrobatics skill to the maximum by just jumping up and down on the spot in
> Morrowind.
>
> However if you know a sensible way to fix this. Please tell me..

I think we agree there's a problem with any feature that lets you grow
in power with no limit, no danger and no cost. If you add a meaningful
amount of any one of these -- limit, danger or cost -- you can reduce
or eliminate the problem.

Take Slash'em's gypsy exploit, where you could get an unlimited number
of wishes with no real danger or cost. The problem was fixed by putting
a limit on the number of wishes you can get from a given gypsy.

Take polypiling in Nethack. It's a powerful technique, but there's a
cost - power points, food and items - which limits the power. There's
also a pretty high barrier to entry; you need to be a relatively
powerful spellcaster to do serious polypiling.

And you can probably think of loads of examples of powerful techniques
in roguelikes that are offset with a high risk of death or
equipment/attribute loss.

I haven't played Morrowind, but off the top of my head, you might do
any or all of:
a) Add a danger of (permanent?) injury for over-exercising. Or being
locked in a crazy house for just jumping up and down all day. Or being
attacked by monsters without your armour on. Or falling through the
floor of the house you're doing it in to be safe from monsters.

b) Add a high fixed cost in food, clothes washing bills, gym
memberships, long term stamina reserves, days left to complete the
quest, whatever.

c) Put a limit on the amount of skill you can gain from jumping on the
spot, either per <time unit> or for the whole game.

Matthew

 

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Jeff Lait wrote:
> Actually, in POWDER, after you die, your save game is still available.
> The "Load..." menu option is changed to "Save Scum...", however.
>
> Thus, save scumming *can* be integrated in a game and still be save
> scumming.

That's interesting, and I suppose it throws my definition out of the
window.


copx: As an experiment, I defined the F1 macro as 'papapat6papapat6',
then held down F1. In less than half a minute, my character had amassed
30,000 experience, more than enough to max out every skill and buy
every talent and psychic power.

I also discovered that you can advance skills beyond 100 if they are
close to 100 when you advance them. I would have assumed this was a bug
in any other game, but I suspect it will turn out to be a deliberate
feature of ToD.

Matthew

 

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<mccb3@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1119375139.054415.118800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> copx wrote:
>> You can also gain unlimited EP by using "Iron Skin" or "Freeze". This is
>> a
>> trade-off. I wanted psykers to be able to gain EP without having to kill
>> stuff to make playing a "support psyker" (who supports a combat-focused
>> character) possible. Scumming is possible in all games, just don't do it
>> if
>> you don't want to.
>
> Hold on. There's a pretty big difference between this and "scumming",
> which is basically another word for "cheating".
>
> Take savescumming. It's an out-of-game activity. There's no in-game
> facility for doing it. You have to go outside of the game and
> deliberately mess with files.
[snip]

No, scumming in general doesn't mean cheating. "Savescumming" is the
exception, not the rule. Some cheaters who don't accept that permadeath is a
vital feature of roguelikes invented that term. Scumming means using
exploits which are there due to game design (as opposed to bugs - using
those is cheating).You can boost your strength, character level and
acrobatics skill to the maximum by just jumping up and down on the spot in
Morrowind. It is possible to "scum" in almost every RPG that's because it's
impossible to prevent scumming without screwing the game play IMO.
However if you know a sensible way to fix this. Please tell me..

copx

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

In article <d99nce$66h$04$1@news.t-online.com>, "copx" <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>No, scumming in general doesn't mean cheating. "Savescumming" is the
>exception, not the rule. Some cheaters who don't accept that permadeath is a
>vital feature of roguelikes invented that term. Scumming means using
>exploits which are there due to game design (as opposed to bugs - using
>those is cheating).You can boost your strength, character level and
>acrobatics skill to the maximum by just jumping up and down on the spot in
>Morrowind. It is possible to "scum" in almost every RPG that's because it's
>impossible to prevent scumming without screwing the game play IMO.
>However if you know a sensible way to fix this. Please tell me..

Only give the experience if you jump over something like a pit or
crevasse. An invisible trigger in midair over the obstacle can catch
the jump maybe.

Alan

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

<mccb3@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1119384910.157318.248630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> copx: As an experiment, I defined the F1 macro as 'papapat6papapat6',
> then held down F1. In less than half a minute, my character had amassed
> 30,000 experience, more than enough to max out every skill and buy
> every talent and psychic power.

So what?

> I also discovered that you can advance skills beyond 100 if they are
> close to 100 when you advance them. I would have assumed this was a bug
> in any other game, but I suspect it will turn out to be a deliberate
> feature of ToD.

No, that actually is bug.

copx

 

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<mccb3@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1119383213.197036.87220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
[snip]

I think you misunderstood me. I would like to how to "fix" that specific
exploit in TOD you complained about because I can't think of any sensible
solution.

copx

 

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copx wrote:
> <mccb3@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:1119383213.197036.87220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> [snip]
>
> I think you misunderstood me. I would like to how to "fix" that specific
> exploit in TOD you complained about because I can't think of any sensible
> solution.
>

Objective is make it possible to be a "support" character who
doesn't actually kill a lot of stuff?

The character needs to take experience for something that's
not killing stuff. But something vague like "concentrating"
that can be done whenever, isn't probably the best choice.

Consider awarding Psykers experience for area explored. You
have to go along and do stuff, you have to expose yourself to
danger, and most importantly, it's interesting instead of
boring. Just avoid awarding experience for exploring the
same area twice....

Alternatively, Psykers could advance in power by destroying
magic items. It has interesting tradeoffs, especially if you
could otherwise sell them for money.

Bear

 

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<mccb3@hotmail.com> wrote:

|Take Slash'em's gypsy exploit, where you could get an unlimited number
|of wishes with no real danger or cost. The problem was fixed by putting
|a limit on the number of wishes you can get from a given gypsy.
hmmmmm... I still don't think it has been fixed, you can still reverse-geno
gypsies to get a huge amount of wishes before exhausting your supply...