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fantasy vs. sci-fi

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Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:26:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

i'm finishing my roguelike engine and it's time to decide on the
setting.. what would you suggest? doing classical fantasy or sci-fi?
both will be equaly hard for me since i want to implement a three
dimensional world into ASCII.. only if someone would like to write an
engine for me i could do it 3d (directx or opengl) :) 

both settings will use rules similar to ones you can play as P&P RPGs..
i don't have license for either so i'm not allowed to use any names..
but you can't copyright game mechanics :) 

so.. fantasy or sci-fi? fantasy will be one large world and sci-fi will
be a whole universe.. i'm planning to implement spacecrafts and stuff..




vooood

More about : fantasy sci

Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:26:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

At Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:26:37 +0200,
vooood wrote:

> i'm finishing my roguelike engine and it's time to decide on the
> setting.. what would you suggest? doing classical fantasy or sci-fi?
> both will be equaly hard for me since i want to implement a three
> dimensional world into ASCII.. only if someone would like to write an
> engine for me i could do it 3d (directx or opengl) :) 
>
> both settings will use rules similar to ones you can play as P&P RPGs..
> i don't have license for either so i'm not allowed to use any names..
> but you can't copyright game mechanics :) 
>
> so.. fantasy or sci-fi? fantasy will be one large world and sci-fi will
> be a whole universe.. i'm planning to implement spacecrafts and stuff..

http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/Theme

Just pick one ;) 

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
(Oo) 3 Eh?
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:26:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

vooood wrote:
> i'm finishing my roguelike engine and it's time to decide on the
> setting.. what would you suggest? doing classical fantasy or sci-fi?

It's nice that you were able to decide whether to write a roguelike
engine or Pacman clone..

> both will be equaly hard for me since i want to implement a three
> dimensional world into ASCII..

Your engine supports that?
Make a non-classical fantasy. We already have some amount of those
classical D&D roguelikes anyway... or better, do whatever you like.
Because if you don't like playing it yourself, then it's going to
crash to the roguelike graveyard very soon:) 

And remember, there is no fantasy VS. scifi. Scifi is almost always
"fantasy in future". You can even mix fantasy and scifi stuff together.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 6:19:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

vooood wrote:
> just imagine the possibilities.. massive space combat: after firing the
> lasers and missiles the ships come closer and soldiers from one board to
> another and then a massive melee occurs..

How they board to the another space ship? By jumping?:) 
I'd make huge steam-engined floating ships and make them battle in
the air (not in space), then the crew could board the ship.

> even spellcasters in space are more than thrilling.. casting a
> fireball on a ship could be fun..

Wonder how fireball will make it in space? There is no air in space,
so fire isn't going to survive there long. How about fireball? Hmm,
that's an interesting thought. Too bad we can't test it, since
fireballs aren't real...
Anyway, I guess usually fantasy and scifi are mixed the other way,
like everything is happening in a "normal" fantasy world, but there
are some rare alien artifacts that will make it easier to zap monsters.
And of course a "call aliens" -device, which the player accidentally
activates and so The Ancients return from the stars...

> man i think you will be in game credits if i ever make this one :) 

Can't wait that.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 7:27:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Krice wrote:
> vooood wrote:
> > just imagine the possibilities.. massive space combat: after firing the
> > lasers and missiles the ships come closer and soldiers from one board to
> > another and then a massive melee occurs..
>
> How they board to the another space ship? By jumping?:) 

Of course! They throw over the grappling hooks and then use them to
cross!

> I'd make huge steam-engined floating ships and make them battle in
> the air (not in space), then the crew could board the ship.

I'd put them in space. As soon as you have steam-engined floating
ships, you are playing liberally with the laws of physics.

> > even spellcasters in space are more than thrilling.. casting a
> > fireball on a ship could be fun..
>
> Wonder how fireball will make it in space? There is no air in space,

Why isn't there air in space?

If it makes a fun and cool game, go ahead and *put* air in space.
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 8:23:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Krice wrote:
> And remember, there is no fantasy VS. scifi. Scifi is almost always
> "fantasy in future". You can even mix fantasy and scifi stuff together.

this is a very good idea.. i even heard that there are two russian
writers who write books based on fantasy sci-fi so there is a guy with a
longsword in one hand and a laser pistol in other and such stuff..
unfortunatelly i forgot their names but anyway you gave me a great idea..

anyway.. it would be stupid to use laser blasters on board in space..
once you enter another ship take your longsword and start killing :) 



vooood
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 8:40:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

vooood wrote:
> Krice wrote:
>
>> And remember, there is no fantasy VS. scifi. Scifi is almost always
>> "fantasy in future". You can even mix fantasy and scifi stuff together.
>
>
> this is a very good idea.. i even heard that there are two russian
> writers who write books based on fantasy sci-fi so there is a guy with a
> longsword in one hand and a laser pistol in other and such stuff..
> unfortunatelly i forgot their names but anyway you gave me a great idea..
>
> anyway.. it would be stupid to use laser blasters on board in space..
> once you enter another ship take your longsword and start killing :) 
>
>
>
> vooood

just imagine the possibilities.. massive space combat: after firing the
lasers and missiles the ships come closer and soldiers from one board to
another and then a massive melee occurs.. interesting.. even
spellcasters in space are more than thrilling.. casting a fireball on a
ship could be fun.. and hiding in deadspace where magic does not work so
you can't be located by magical means..

man i think you will be in game credits if i ever make this one :) 

vooood
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 8:40:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:40:30 +0200, vooood <vooood@IHATESPAMgmail.com>
wrote:

>just imagine the possibilities.. massive space combat: after firing the
>lasers and missiles the ships come closer and soldiers from one board to
>another and then a massive melee occurs.. interesting..

That's how it works in the Lensmen series. Boarding parties with heavy
axes to cleave armored spacesuits, but not using the heavy stuff that
would blow the ship apart.

--
R. Dan Henry = danhenry@inreach.com
Dance, Puppet, dance!
But why are there *humans* dancing for the puppet?
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:16:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

This day of Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:28:18 -0700, R. Dan Henry
<danhenry@inreach.com> saw fit to scribe:

>On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:40:30 +0200, vooood <vooood@IHATESPAMgmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>just imagine the possibilities.. massive space combat: after firing the
>>lasers and missiles the ships come closer and soldiers from one board to
>>another and then a massive melee occurs.. interesting..
>
>That's how it works in the Lensmen series. Boarding parties with heavy
>axes to cleave armored spacesuits, but not using the heavy stuff that
>would blow the ship apart.

Star Wars has, beyond the lightsabers that the Jedi use, all kinds of
'modernized' version of melee weapons, namely vibro-weapons. These are
essentially bladed weapons (axes, spears, swords, knives...) whose edges
are extremely thin and vibrate slightly but very quickly. Supposedly
this makes the weapons very 'sharp' and able to cut through almost as
much as lightsabers.

Star Wars is a very good example, IMO, of fantasy set in a sci-fi world.
It has aliens, ships, space battles and the like, but the central story
revolves around magic (the Force) and epic battles, much like you would
expect in a fantasy world.

Although I have not played any version beyond the first, the Final
Fantasy series also mixes swords, guns and the like. The first one was
straight fantasy until the very end of the game, with a brief encounter
with robots and the like. From what I've seen of the newer games, you
have characters with gattling guns right next to characters with swords
from the get-go.

--
David C. Haley
http://david.the-haleys.org
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:32:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:27:18 -0700, after eating far too many mushrooms
of confusion Jeff Lait wrote:

>> How they board to the another space ship? By jumping?:) 
> Of course! They throw over the grappling hooks and then use them to
> cross!
Why not use spacesuits with movement thrusters ?

>> I'd make huge steam-engined floating ships and make them battle in the
>> air (not in space), then the crew could board the ship.
> I'd put them in space. As soon as you have steam-engined floating ships,
> you are playing liberally with the laws of physics.
And throwing a magical ball of fire from your palm is not ? ;) 

>> > even spellcasters in space are more than thrilling.. casting a
>> > fireball on a ship could be fun..
>>
>> Wonder how fireball will make it in space? There is no air in space,
>
> Why isn't there air in space?
>
> If it makes a fun and cool game, go ahead and *put* air in space.

that's fine, but that would be, as you say, playing
liberally with the laws of physics ;>

--
DarkGod comes from | Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards
the hells for YOU ! :)  | because they are subtle and quick to anger.
-----------------------+----------------------------------------------
ToME power! http://t-o-m-e.net
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 2:05:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

R. Dan Henry a écrit :
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:40:30 +0200, vooood <vooood@IHATESPAMgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>just imagine the possibilities.. massive space combat: after firing the
>>lasers and missiles the ships come closer and soldiers from one board to
>>another and then a massive melee occurs.. interesting..
>
>
> That's how it works in the Lensmen series. Boarding parties with heavy
> axes to cleave armored spacesuits, but not using the heavy stuff that
> would blow the ship apart.
>
This fells weird you know. If small handheld weapons require that much
power to break infantery armor that it risks destroying the ship itself,
you have to wonder why they don't use the same material only in bigger
quantities for the ship's armor plating.
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 2:05:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:05:23 +0200, Christophe
<chris.cavalaria@free.fr> wrote:

>R. Dan Henry a écrit :
>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:40:30 +0200, vooood <vooood@IHATESPAMgmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>just imagine the possibilities.. massive space combat: after firing the
>>>lasers and missiles the ships come closer and soldiers from one board to
>>>another and then a massive melee occurs.. interesting..
>>
>>
>> That's how it works in the Lensmen series. Boarding parties with heavy
>> axes to cleave armored spacesuits, but not using the heavy stuff that
>> would blow the ship apart.
>>
>This fells weird you know. If small handheld weapons require that much
>power to break infantery armor that it risks destroying the ship itself,
>you have to wonder why they don't use the same material only in bigger
>quantities for the ship's armor plating.

But boarding parties are *inside* the ship's armor plating. That's the
whole point. And with most space drives, weight still does matter, so
you can't just armor everything.

Babylon 5 addresses the problem with plasma weapons that are deadly
enough against flesh but have poor penetration -- you have to put
enough energy into a door to melt it to shoot your way through.

--
R. Dan Henry = danhenry@inreach.com
Dance, Puppet, dance!
But why are there *humans* dancing for the puppet?
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 3:27:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

R. Dan Henry a écrit :
> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:05:23 +0200, Christophe
> <chris.cavalaria@free.fr> wrote:
>
>
>>R. Dan Henry a écrit :
>>
>>>On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:40:30 +0200, vooood <vooood@IHATESPAMgmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>just imagine the possibilities.. massive space combat: after firing the
>>>>lasers and missiles the ships come closer and soldiers from one board to
>>>>another and then a massive melee occurs.. interesting..
>>>
>>>
>>>That's how it works in the Lensmen series. Boarding parties with heavy
>>>axes to cleave armored spacesuits, but not using the heavy stuff that
>>>would blow the ship apart.
>>>
>>
>>This fells weird you know. If small handheld weapons require that much
>>power to break infantery armor that it risks destroying the ship itself,
>>you have to wonder why they don't use the same material only in bigger
>>quantities for the ship's armor plating.
>
>
> But boarding parties are *inside* the ship's armor plating. That's the
> whole point. And with most space drives, weight still does matter, so
> you can't just armor everything.
>
> Babylon 5 addresses the problem with plasma weapons that are deadly
> enough against flesh but have poor penetration -- you have to put
> enough energy into a door to melt it to shoot your way through.

And battleships armour plating is designed to absorb hits from capital
ships main weapons. I highly doubt those weapons consist in a dozen hand
blasters with a mecanical hand holding them on the side of the hull :) 
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 3:27:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

This day of Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:27:10 +0200, Christophe
<chris.cavalaria@free.fr> saw fit to scribe:

>R. Dan Henry a écrit :
>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:05:23 +0200, Christophe
>> <chris.cavalaria@free.fr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>R. Dan Henry a écrit :
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:40:30 +0200, vooood <vooood@IHATESPAMgmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>just imagine the possibilities.. massive space combat: after firing the
>>>>>lasers and missiles the ships come closer and soldiers from one board to
>>>>>another and then a massive melee occurs.. interesting..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's how it works in the Lensmen series. Boarding parties with heavy
>>>>axes to cleave armored spacesuits, but not using the heavy stuff that
>>>>would blow the ship apart.
>>>>
>>>
>>>This fells weird you know. If small handheld weapons require that much
>>>power to break infantery armor that it risks destroying the ship itself,
>>>you have to wonder why they don't use the same material only in bigger
>>>quantities for the ship's armor plating.
>>
>>
>> But boarding parties are *inside* the ship's armor plating. That's the
>> whole point. And with most space drives, weight still does matter, so
>> you can't just armor everything.
>>
>> Babylon 5 addresses the problem with plasma weapons that are deadly
>> enough against flesh but have poor penetration -- you have to put
>> enough energy into a door to melt it to shoot your way through.
>
>And battleships armour plating is designed to absorb hits from capital
>ships main weapons. I highly doubt those weapons consist in a dozen hand
>blasters with a mecanical hand holding them on the side of the hull :) 

I also would find it odd if hand-held blasters had so much firepower
that people wouldn't use them in a ship. I guess you could be worried
about frying the ship's systems, but that's relatively minor compared to
blowing the whole ship apart.

Star Wars solves the problem by simply having people shoot at each
other. :-) The vibro-weapons I mentioned are used by soldiers in the
same kind of situation in which a modern-day soldier would use a knife
or bayonette. They're also used in places where combat is guaranteed to
be close-quarters e.g. urban-like settings. And finally they have the
advantages of being quiet, as opposed to the relative noisiness of a
blaster, and not needing nearly as much power to keep going. At least,
all of this according to the books... can you tell that I've read a few
(too many)? :-)

--
David C. Haley
http://david.the-haleys.org
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:17:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

DarkGod wrote:
> The Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:27:18 -0700, after eating far too many mushrooms
> of confusion Jeff Lait wrote:
>
>
>>>How they board to the another space ship? By jumping?:) 
>>
>>Of course! They throw over the grappling hooks and then use them to
>>cross!
>
> Why not use spacesuits with movement thrusters ?

finally someone who uses his brain :D 

actually i think it would be a really interesting thing to mix hardcore
d&d fantasy with starwars, dune, vampire and call of cthulhu..


i sure will try it..


regarding to fireballs in space.. fireballs are magic.. the fire is
magical so it does not need air to burn.. just think about everburning
torches.. how can they be everburning? i'm making a game and if i say
that humans in my game have three legs then they have three legs :D 


vooood
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:17:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On 2005-06-27 12:17:50, vooood <vooood@IHATESPAMgmail.com> wrote:

> >>>How they board to the another space ship? By jumping?:) 
> >>Of course! They throw over the grappling hooks and then use them to
> >>cross!
> > Why not use spacesuits with movement thrusters ?
> finally someone who uses his brain :D 
Lol thanks, seems kinda obvious though .. ;>

> actually i think it would be a really interesting thing to mix hardcore
> d&d fantasy with starwars, dune, vampire and call of cthulhu..
Could be fun ;) 
But then I always loved arcanum

> regarding to fireballs in space.. fireballs are magic.. the fire is
> magical so it does not need air to burn.. just think about everburning
> torches.. how can they be everburning? i'm making a game and if i say
> that humans in my game have three legs then they have three legs :D 
Indeed !
long live the three legged humans !

--
DarkGod comes from | Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards
the hells for YOU ! :)  | because they are subtle and quick to anger.
-----------------------+----------------------------------------------
ToME power! http://t-o-m-e.net
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 5:45:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Christophe wrote:
> And battleships armour plating is designed to absorb hits from capital
> ships main weapons. I highly doubt those weapons consist in a dozen hand
> blasters with a mecanical hand holding them on the side of the hull :) 

not true for some settings.. in star wars (and star trek) ships have
shields that protect them from damage.. once the shields are down the
ship's done.. but when you're inside the ship then there is no shields
to protect the ship plating from damage..



vooood
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 5:45:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

This day of Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:45:30 +0200, vooood
<vooood@IHATESPAMgmail.com> saw fit to scribe:

>Christophe wrote:
>> And battleships armour plating is designed to absorb hits from capital
>> ships main weapons. I highly doubt those weapons consist in a dozen hand
>> blasters with a mecanical hand holding them on the side of the hull :) 
>
>not true for some settings.. in star wars (and star trek) ships have
>shields that protect them from damage.. once the shields are down the
>ship's done.. but when you're inside the ship then there is no shields
>to protect the ship plating from damage..

That's only true for the smaller ships (e.g. fighters) in Star Wars. You
can see for yourself in the opening scene to EpIV that the blaster fight
on during the Corvette boarding (Leia's ship, the Tantive IV) only marks
the walls with black scores, nothing gets damaged. Same on the Death
Star - no structural damage from inside despite lots of blasters shots
going around. In Star Wars the hand-held blasters simply don't have that
much power when compared to a ship-mounted laser cannon.

--
David C. Haley
http://david.the-haleys.org
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 1:27:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

vooood wrote:
> Krice wrote:
>
>> And remember, there is no fantasy VS. scifi. Scifi is almost always
>> "fantasy in future". You can even mix fantasy and scifi stuff together.
>
> this is a very good idea.. i even heard that there are two russian
> writers who write books based on fantasy sci-fi so there is a guy with a
> longsword in one hand and a laser pistol in other and such stuff..

You mean "It's not easy being a god" (Trudno byt' bogom) by the
Strugatsky brothers?

> unfortunatelly i forgot their names but anyway you gave me a great idea..
>
> anyway.. it would be stupid to use laser blasters on board in space..

"Warning. Pressurized area. Use of firearms not permitted for security
reasons"

Lars
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 3:18:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I am writting a roguelike that is in an AD&D'ish world but am
concidering there being a guild you can find in one of the cities which
is a timetravelers club made up of mostly very powerful and specialized
wizards who have timetraveld to the future/past and brag about how far.
In there, for a very high price, you can buy some ancient weapons that
are tapped into a higher magic or items from the future like dwarven
rifles and gnome crafted bullets.

What do you think?

-Thomas
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 3:40:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Lars Kecke wrote:
> vooood wrote:
>
>> Krice wrote:
>>
>>> And remember, there is no fantasy VS. scifi. Scifi is almost always
>>> "fantasy in future". You can even mix fantasy and scifi stuff together.
>>
>>
>> this is a very good idea.. i even heard that there are two russian
>> writers who write books based on fantasy sci-fi so there is a guy with
>> a longsword in one hand and a laser pistol in other and such stuff..
>
>
> You mean "It's not easy being a god" (Trudno byt' bogom) by the
> Strugatsky brothers?

This was a *great* book indeed...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"From what I've read, a lot of people believe that GenRogue
exists and will be released some day" -- Arxenia Xentrophore
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 2:20:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

vooood wrote:
> DarkGod wrote:
> > The Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:27:18 -0700, after eating far too many mushrooms
> > of confusion Jeff Lait wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>How they board to the another space ship? By jumping?:) 
> >>
> >>Of course! They throw over the grappling hooks and then use them to
> >>cross!
> >
> > Why not use spacesuits with movement thrusters ?
>
> finally someone who uses his brain :D 

Usually, wearing heavy armor restricts the chucking of fireballs. it
may not in you universe. other thing to watch out for is having the
fireball come out of your palm, which would blow your glove off and
decompress your spacesuit...



> actually i think it would be a really interesting thing to mix hardcore
> d&d fantasy with starwars, dune, vampire and call of cthulhu..
>
>
> i sure will try it..
>
>
> regarding to fireballs in space.. fireballs are magic.. the fire is
> magical so it does not need air to burn.. just think about everburning
> torches.. how can they be everburning? i'm making a game and if i say
> that humans in my game have three legs then they have three legs :D 

Yess, but there are standards. if you make it too obnoxious, people
will be wierded out and not play.


>
> vooood
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 7:44:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

vooood wrote:

>
> actually i think it would be a really interesting thing to mix hardcore
> d&d fantasy with starwars, dune, vampire and call of cthulhu..
>
>
> i sure will try it..
>

Do try to avoid the "brown" effect. When you start mixing
genres, you have to add a lot more original and focused
material than otherwise, and material that addresses the
whole of the created world instead of its parts, in order
for it to seem other than absolutely generic.

Bear
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 12:16:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Saluton!

R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote:
> But boarding parties are *inside* the ship's armor plating. That's the
> whole point. And with most space drives, weight still does matter, so
> you can't just armor everything.

Actually Lensmen's ships shouldn't care for weight. They
use a massless drive, after all.

Ad Astra!
JuL

--
Jürgen ,,JuL'' Lerch / It's uncool to be cool.
jurtax@gmx.net /
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 2:34:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:16:23 +0000 (UTC), Jürgen Lerch <jynwyn@gmx.de>
wrote:

>Saluton!
>
>R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote:
>> But boarding parties are *inside* the ship's armor plating. That's the
>> whole point. And with most space drives, weight still does matter, so
>> you can't just armor everything.
>
>Actually Lensmen's ships shouldn't care for weight. They
>use a massless drive, after all.

Indeed, they don't when on inertialess drive (not "massless" -- AFAIK,
their gravitational mass was unaffected). They are, in fact, the only
actual exception I could think of and the main reason I specified
*most* space drives. And you'd still be talking about making the ship
much more expensive for something that's only useful if you're already
losing.

--
R. Dan Henry = danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 6:57:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Quoting =?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=FCrgen?= Lerch <jynwyn@gmx.de>:
>R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote:
>>But boarding parties are *inside* the ship's armor plating. That's the
>>whole point. And with most space drives, weight still does matter, so
>>you can't just armor everything.
>Actually Lensmen's ships shouldn't care for weight.

They also don't use armour. Once a ship's screens go down, no conceivable
material substance can endure for a second the fury of quasi-solid
lighting that... well, you get the idea.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Second Friday, Presuary.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 10:02:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

David Haley wrote:

<Snip thread -- in-starship weaponry, boarding actions, etc.>

> I also would find it odd if hand-held blasters had so much firepower
> that people wouldn't use them in a ship. I guess you could be worried
> about frying the ship's systems, but that's relatively minor compared to
> blowing the whole ship apart.

Well, to begin with, I'd add the large disclaimer that this is sort of
(err, extremely) off-topic for RGRD, not to mention about two weeks
late, but I hope it's interesting enough to make up for that. Then
again, world-building questions _are_ at least kind of on-topic, aren't
they? (I sure hope so... :)  )

As for hand-to-hand combat within a spacecraft, the original drafts of
_Star Wars_ had lasers as ranged weapons, which tended to reflect
nastily when they struck walls -- no danger to the ship, just a whole
lot to the wielder, as one can see at
http://www.starwarz.com/starkiller/scripts/thestarwars_...
, scenes 9 and 13. Boarding parties fought with lightsabers instead.

_Dune_, of course, had laser weapons which reacted extremely nastily
with personal shields, which could be penetrated by slow-moving
physical objects like, say, knives. (Incidentally, this left them
_extremely_ vulnerable to the use of pre-laser weapons -- modern-style
artillery, SAMs, and that sort of thing -- which was a major plot point
in the novel.)

Or, there's the _Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind_ approach, where
apparently technology and economics are so utterly wonky in the
aftermath of a trans-nuclear disaster that carrying a rifle and a
broadsword at the same time makes relatively good sense. (Incidentally,
I could see the same sort of thing being true in the Dune universe, or
for that matter in the early period of the First Foundation -- Asimov's
_Foundation_ trilogy -- both of which, but _Dune_ especially, were
really major inspirations for _Nausicaa_.) Actually, I'd recommend the
movie version of _Nausicaa_ to voood; it might give him a few stylistic
ideas, and was just recently dubbed into English by Disney as part of
their ongoing arrangement. It's anime, and Miyazaki's style is of
course more like a French animator than a Japanese, but hopefully he'll
be willing to give it a chance. I think it'd pay off well.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a guerilla marketer, just an SF and Miyazaki
fan...)

(And again, I apologize if this is too off-topic.)
July 13, 2005 12:50:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Andrew Doull wrote:
> On 2005-06-26 12:48:49, "Krice" <paulkp@mbnet.fi> wrote:
>
> > vooood wrote:
> > > i'm finishing my roguelike engine and it's time to decide on the
> > > setting.. what would you suggest? doing classical fantasy or sci-fi?
> [...]
> >
> > And remember, there is no fantasy VS. scifi. Scifi is almost always
> > "fantasy in future". You can even mix fantasy and scifi stuff together.
>
> I wouldn't make that statement anywhere near anyone who knows anything about
> science fiction. Especially Harlan Ellison.
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Unangband L:C E+ T- R- P+ D-- G+(+) F:Sangband RL-- RLA-- W:F Q++
> AI+(++) GFX++ SFX++ RN+++(+) PO++ Hp+++ Re--(+) S++ C- O* KG--

Well, what are they going to do about it - pull out a phaser and shoot
you?

A.
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 1:19:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On 2005-06-26 12:48:49, "Krice" <paulkp@mbnet.fi> wrote:

> vooood wrote:
> > i'm finishing my roguelike engine and it's time to decide on the
> > setting.. what would you suggest? doing classical fantasy or sci-fi?
[...]
>
> And remember, there is no fantasy VS. scifi. Scifi is almost always
> "fantasy in future". You can even mix fantasy and scifi stuff together.

I wouldn't make that statement anywhere near anyone who knows anything about
science fiction. Especially Harlan Ellison.

Andrew

--
Unangband L:C E+ T- R- P+ D-- G+(+) F:Sangband RL-- RLA-- W:F Q++
AI+(++) GFX++ SFX++ RN+++(+) PO++ Hp+++ Re--(+) S++ C- O* KG--
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 8:34:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ex_ottoyuhr (ex_ottoyuhr@hotmail.com) wrote:

> _Dune_, of course, had laser weapons which reacted extremely nastily
> with personal shields, which could be penetrated by slow-moving
> physical objects like, say, knives. (Incidentally, this left them
> _extremely_ vulnerable to the use of pre-laser weapons -- modern-style
> artillery, SAMs, and that sort of thing -- which was a major plot point
> in the novel.)

Eh. Shields had rendered all projectile weapons and explosives almost
totally useless. (And use of lasers quite inadvisable.)

Special circumstances that prevented shield use left one vulnerable to
such ancient weapons. To all ranged weapons, in fact, including lasers.

--
JTJ | http://www.kolumbus.fi/j.julkunen/
"Please keep out of children." -- On a butcher knife.
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 2:18:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Juho Julkunen wrote:
> ex_ottoyuhr (ex_ottoyuhr@hotmail.com) wrote:
>
> > _Dune_, of course, had laser weapons which reacted extremely nastily
> > with personal shields, which could be penetrated by slow-moving
> > physical objects like, say, knives. (Incidentally, this left them
> > _extremely_ vulnerable to the use of pre-laser weapons -- modern-style
> > artillery, SAMs, and that sort of thing -- which was a major plot point
> > in the novel.)
>
> Eh. Shields had rendered all projectile weapons and explosives almost
> totally useless. (And use of lasers quite inadvisable.)
>
> Special circumstances that prevented shield use left one vulnerable to
> such ancient weapons. To all ranged weapons, in fact, including lasers.

I was thinking more in terms of Harkonnen's artillery -- even if the
Atrides troops had had shields, they would've still been buried. That
sort of thing -- guns had been out of use for so long that it'd been
forgotten that they did more than kill people... :) 

Still, your "Eh" definately stands...
Anonymous
July 17, 2005 12:49:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

ex_ottoyuhr (ex_ottoyuhr@hotmail.com) wrote:
> Juho Julkunen wrote:
> > ex_ottoyuhr (ex_ottoyuhr@hotmail.com) wrote:
> >
> > > _Dune_, of course, had laser weapons which reacted extremely nastily
> > > with personal shields, which could be penetrated by slow-moving
> > > physical objects like, say, knives. (Incidentally, this left them
> > > _extremely_ vulnerable to the use of pre-laser weapons -- modern-style
> > > artillery, SAMs, and that sort of thing -- which was a major plot point
> > > in the novel.)
> >
> > Eh. Shields had rendered all projectile weapons and explosives almost
> > totally useless. (And use of lasers quite inadvisable.)
> >
> > Special circumstances that prevented shield use left one vulnerable to
> > such ancient weapons. To all ranged weapons, in fact, including lasers.
>
> I was thinking more in terms of Harkonnen's artillery -- even if the
> Atrides troops had had shields, they would've still been buried. That
> sort of thing -- guns had been out of use for so long that it'd been
> forgotten that they did more than kill people... :) 

As the Fremen said: "Any man who retreats into a cave which has only
one opening deservs to die." A minor plot point, I'd say. The Atreides
were outmatched anyway. The Fremen put ancient weaponry to much better
use against the Harkonnens later on.
>
> Still, your "Eh" definately stands...

--
JTJ | http://www.kolumbus.fi/j.julkunen/
It is possible that I could fall for such tricks... Then again, it's
also possible that a loaf of banana nut bread could spontaneously
appear in orbit around Mars.
!