Hi, I'm new here, would like to try my hand at a roguelike..

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I'm a veteran from ADOM and a veteran MUD coder. I'd like to see if I
can get a roguelike working. I tried this several times in the past
but always gave up after hours of pulling hair out trying to find some
[n]curses implementation that actually worked. Now I'm on university
computers instead of my own, and (after more hours of pulling hair out)
have managed to get pdcurses working :) And once you have curses
working, the rest is just a trivial matter!

But here is a new dilemma. These university computers use MS VC .NET.
I understand this would make the game highly unportable, is that
correct? If so, is it safe to program it in this environment anyway,
and worry about porting issues much later? I already intend to do a
basic wrapper for pdcurses, but if I'm planning on porting later, is
there anything else I should wrap?

I'm an algorithm guru, but when it comes to technology and compilers,
I'm hopelessly clueless :(

I've read the last month or two of posts on this group and it's a
kick-arse group! Hope you don't mind me wandering in and loafing
around on the couch!

Snis Pilbor
15 answers Last reply
More about here hand roguelike
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    It's very possible to write pure C/C++ code in VS.Net and have it
    compile to native x386 instead of MSIL. I developed a chess engine in C
    using VS 6 which compiles fine with no changes in the new version of
    VS. The only difference is that the new compiler creates an executeable
    that is 10-20% faster (in my case).

    Still you have to ask yourself if the extra hours of
    coding/researching/testing to make your code portable is really worth
    it. I did a survey here a while ago and about 80% of the folks here
    have a windows box. Do you even have a unix and mac machine to test
    on? Because if you don't you might as well forget about
    crossplatformness.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Snis Pilbor wrote:
    > I'm a veteran from ADOM and a veteran MUD coder. I'd like to see if I
    > can get a roguelike working. I tried this several times in the past
    > but always gave up after hours of pulling hair out trying to find some
    > [n]curses implementation that actually worked. Now I'm on university
    > computers instead of my own, and (after more hours of pulling hair out)
    > have managed to get pdcurses working :) And once you have curses
    > working, the rest is just a trivial matter!
    >
    > But here is a new dilemma. These university computers use MS VC .NET.
    > I understand this would make the game highly unportable, is that
    > correct? If so, is it safe to program it in this environment anyway,
    > and worry about porting issues much later? I already intend to do a
    > basic wrapper for pdcurses, but if I'm planning on porting later, is
    > there anything else I should wrap?
    >
    > I'm an algorithm guru, but when it comes to technology and compilers,
    > I'm hopelessly clueless :(
    >
    > I've read the last month or two of posts on this group and it's a
    > kick-arse group! Hope you don't mind me wandering in and loafing
    > around on the couch!
    >
    > Snis Pilbor
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Oops, sorry about the bad post.
    What my post was supposed to say was this:
    Welcome to the group, it is indeed a great place for inspiration and
    information.
    If it's your first attempt at a roguelike, I recommend using whatever
    development tools are at hand and you are comfortable with.
    If you're intending on making a fully-fledged, cross-platform, major
    roguelike, do some research on languages and portability first; adding
    it as an afterthought will cause a major headache (and possible
    baldness if you're prone to hair-pulling). Python and Ocaml are
    cross-platform by design.
    Best of luck!
    --jude hungerford.
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Snis Pilbor ha escrito:
    > I'm a veteran from ADOM and a veteran MUD coder. I'd like to see if I
    > can get a roguelike working. I tried this several times in the past
    > but always gave up after hours of pulling hair out trying to find some
    > [n]curses implementation that actually worked. Now I'm on university
    > computers instead of my own, and (after more hours of pulling hair out)
    > have managed to get pdcurses working :)


    > And once you have curses
    > working, the rest is just a trivial matter!

    LOL! this one's a good joke ;)

    >
    > But here is a new dilemma. These university computers use MS VC .NET.
    > I understand this would make the game highly unportable, is that
    > correct? If so, is it safe to program it in this environment anyway,
    > and worry about porting issues much later? I already intend to do a
    > basic wrapper for pdcurses, but if I'm planning on porting later, is
    > there anything else I should wrap?
    >
    > I'm an algorithm guru, but when it comes to technology and compilers,
    > I'm hopelessly clueless :(

    Whatever language you use, I highly recommend you to go for a 7DRL as
    your first shoot in roguelike development, it is really worth it!

    >
    > I've read the last month or two of posts on this group and it's a
    > kick-arse group!

    Well, this group has had better times than the last two months :D

    > Hope you don't mind me wandering in and loafing
    > around on the couch!

    Welcome on board,

    >
    > Snis Pilbor

    --
    Slash
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Snis Pilbor wrote:
    > But here is a new dilemma. These university computers use MS VC .NET.
    > I understand this would make the game highly unportable, is that
    > correct?

    Yes.

    > If so, is it safe to program it in this environment anyway,
    > and worry about porting issues much later?

    No.

    > I already intend to do a
    > basic wrapper for pdcurses, but if I'm planning on porting later, is
    > there anything else I should wrap?

    The language I guess. Somebody should wrap .NET anyway. And after
    wrapping it can be... y'know... disposed of.

    > I've read the last month or two of posts on this group and it's a
    > kick-arse group! Hope you don't mind me wandering in and loafing
    > around on the couch!

    Feel free. Just don't walk in wearing muddy boots.
    --
    At your service,
    Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
    "Well, the philosophy of the World of Shadows is based on most of the
    degenerate, immoral and foremost amoral philosophical beliefs of our
    world exagarated to the maximum." --Anubis
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    This day of Mon, 27 Jun 2005 07:48:34 +0200, Kornel Kisielewicz
    <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> saw fit to scribe:

    >Snis Pilbor wrote:
    >> But here is a new dilemma. These university computers use MS VC .NET.
    >> I understand this would make the game highly unportable, is that
    >> correct?
    >
    >Yes.
    >
    > > If so, is it safe to program it in this environment anyway,
    >> and worry about porting issues much later?
    >
    >No.
    >
    >> I already intend to do a
    >> basic wrapper for pdcurses, but if I'm planning on porting later, is
    >> there anything else I should wrap?
    >
    >The language I guess. Somebody should wrap .NET anyway. And after
    >wrapping it can be... y'know... disposed of.

    VC .NET is not C#. In fact, VC.NET is just what they call Visual C++
    2003, now that it's shipped with C#. I guess they think sticking '.net'
    makes it sound cooler or something.

    Snis, if you're coding in VC++ then you shouldn't have too many issues.
    Generally, problem areas are where you need to make system calls.
    Threads (if you'll be using them) are a good example although the
    various pthreads libraries make short work of that. Generally, whenever
    you make system (or C-runtime library) calls you should check to see if
    the call works on other platforms. In some cases they don't work quite
    the same way (e.g. sockets) but are close enough that, for the very most
    part, can be wrapped around quite simply. Doing a google search for 'man
    syscall' is a good way of seeing how things work on Unix/Linux systems.
    I don't know about Macs but I imagine that with OS X most things will
    work similarly to Unix anyhow.

    So I would say that if you're just a little careful when you make system
    calls, you actually won't run into many portability problems.

    All of this assuming of course that you really mean VC.NET and not C# or
    using .NET runtime libraries.

    --
    David C. Haley
    http://david.the-haleys.org
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
    >> But here is a new dilemma. These university computers use MS VC .NET.
    >> I understand this would make the game highly unportable, is that
    >> correct?
    >
    >
    > Yes.
    >
    >> I already intend to do a
    >> basic wrapper for pdcurses, but if I'm planning on porting later, is
    >> there anything else I should wrap?
    >
    >
    > The language I guess. Somebody should wrap .NET anyway. And after
    > wrapping it can be... y'know... disposed of.

    Just to clear up what I think is a misunderstanding (feel free to flame
    if I am wrong): VC.NET does not require your apps use .NET features,
    although you might be led into thinking that by the name. I think the OP
    intends to use merely the standard C compiler of VS, which (if you
    believe Microsoft) is the most standards compliant (and hence hopefully
    portable) yet, especially in the C++/STL area if you felt the need to go
    the full OO hog. This is especially true if you pass the /Za flag to the
    compiler, which disables language extensions.

    Max
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Snis Pilbor napisał(a):
    > I'm a veteran from ADOM and a veteran MUD coder. I'd like to see if I
    > can get a roguelike working. I tried this several times in the past
    > but always gave up after hours of pulling hair out trying to find some
    > [n]curses implementation that actually worked. Now I'm on university
    > computers instead of my own, and (after more hours of pulling hair out)
    > have managed to get pdcurses working :) And once you have curses
    > working, the rest is just a trivial matter!

    You'll see... :P

    >
    > But here is a new dilemma. These university computers use MS VC .NET.
    > I understand this would make the game highly unportable, is that
    > correct? If so, is it safe to program it in this environment anyway,
    > and worry about porting issues much later? I already intend to do a
    > basic wrapper for pdcurses, but if I'm planning on porting later, is
    > there anything else I should wrap?

    If it's your first RL you needn't worry about portability.

    [...]

    >
    > Snis Pilbor
    >


    --
    Milesss
    m i l e s s s @ i n t e r i a . p l
    www.milesss.mylog.pl
    "/0"
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Milesss wrote:
    >> But here is a new dilemma. These university computers use MS VC .NET.
    >> I understand this would make the game highly unportable, is that
    >> correct? If so, is it safe to program it in this environment anyway,
    >> and worry about porting issues much later? I already intend to do a
    >> basic wrapper for pdcurses, but if I'm planning on porting later, is
    >> there anything else I should wrap?
    >
    >
    > If it's your first RL you needn't worry about portability.

    ROFL. How true ;-).
    --
    At your service,
    Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
    My opinions are my own. Share them at your own risk.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Well, I did a lot of coding, have it to the point now where one can
    generate a very basic character and walk around in a randomly generated
    empty dungeon.


    ##################################################
    ##################################################
    ##################################################
    ##################################################
    ###.....##########################################
    ###.....#.........################################
    ###.....#.........#.........######################
    ###.....#.........#.........######################
    ###.........................######################
    ###.....###########.........######################
    ###.....###########.........######################
    ###.....###########.##############################
    ###.....###########.##############################
    #######.###########.##############################
    #######.###########.##############################
    #######.###########.###########..........#########
    #######.###########.###########..........#########
    #######.###########.###########..........#########
    #######.###########.###########..........#########
    #######.###########.###########..........#########
    #######.######...........................#########
    #######.######...........######..........#########
    #######.######...........######..........#########
    ###......................######..........#########
    ###.........##...........######..........#########
    ###.........##....@......######..........#########
    ###.........##...........######.##################
    ###.........##...........######.##################
    ###.........##...........######.##################
    ###.........##...........######.##################
    ###############################.##################
    ###############################.######.........###
    ########...........############.######.........###
    ########.......................................###
    ########...........#######...........#.........###
    ##########################...........#.........###
    ##########################...........#############
    ##################################################
    ##################################################
    ##################################################

    Wow, the dungeon generating problem has a lot more to it than meets the
    eye! I did it recursively, it still has occasional dead-ends or
    unreachable areas though- got to do more work, hehe :)

    If anyone wants to check out my other major coding project, head to
    www.aethar.com. It is a MUD; but I can only claim is as a "variant"
    since I did not code it from scratch. It is an extremely strong
    variant though. Anyway, I'm hoping my experience with MUD programming
    can allow me to bring some new stuff to the table in the roguelike
    community.

    S
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    On 28 Jun 2005 06:43:35 -0700, Snis Pilbor wrote:

    >Well, I did a lot of coding, have it to the point now where one can
    >generate a very basic character and walk around in a randomly generated
    >empty dungeon.
    >
    >
    > ##################################################
    > ##################################################
    > ##################################################
    > ##################################################
    > ###.....##########################################
    > ###.....#.........################################
    > ###.....#.........#.........######################
    > ###.....#.........#.........######################
    > ###.........................######################
    > ###.....###########.........######################
    > ###.....###########.........######################
    > ###.....###########.##############################
    > ###.....###########.##############################
    > #######.###########.##############################
    > #######.###########.##############################
    > #######.###########.###########..........#########
    > #######.###########.###########..........#########
    > #######.###########.###########..........#########
    > #######.###########.###########..........#########
    > #######.###########.###########..........#########
    > #######.######...........................#########
    > #######.######...........######..........#########
    > #######.######...........######..........#########
    > ###......................######..........#########
    > ###.........##...........######..........#########
    > ###.........##....@......######..........#########
    > ###.........##...........######.##################
    > ###.........##...........######.##################
    > ###.........##...........######.##################
    > ###.........##...........######.##################
    > ###############################.##################
    > ###############################.######.........###
    > ########...........############.######.........###
    > ########.......................................###
    > ########...........#######...........#.........###
    > ##########################...........#.........###
    > ##########################...........#############
    > ##################################################
    > ##################################################
    > ##################################################

    Looks better than mine does right now:
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    |_ _| _ _ _| | _| _ _| |
    | |_|_| _| |_ _ | | | | _|_| _:_|
    | _ _ | _ |_ _|_|_|_ | _|_| |
    | _| _ _| _ _ |_ |_|_: | |
    | | | | | | _ |_ _ _|
    | |_ | _|_ _ _ _ _ _ | |
    | | _| _ _ _ _|_ _| _ |
    | |_ _ _ | | | |
    |_ |_ _ _|_ _ _ _ _| |_ |
    |_ _ |_ | | _| |_ _ | |
    |_ _ _ _ | |_ _ _| |_ _ _| |
    |_ | _ | _ | |_ _ _ |_|_ |
    | _ |_| | |_ _ _ |_ | | | |_|_|
    | _ _ _| | | _|_| _ _| _ |
    | |_| | _ _ _| _ _ _| | |_ |
    |_ |_ _ | | _ _| | |_ _ _| |
    | | _ _| _ _| _ | | _| |
    | | _ _| _ _| | _ _|
    | | | |_ _ | _ _|_ _ _|
    |_ _ _|_|_ _ _ _ _ _ _|_ _ _ _ _|_ _ _|_|


    >Wow, the dungeon generating problem has a lot more to it than meets the
    >eye! I did it recursively, it still has occasional dead-ends or
    >unreachable areas though- got to do more work, hehe :)

    Personally, I have no problems with unreachable areas, so long as the
    entrance isn't in one of them.

    >If anyone wants to check out my other major coding project, head to
    >www.aethar.com. It is a MUD; but I can only claim is as a "variant"
    >since I did not code it from scratch. It is an extremely strong
    >variant though. Anyway, I'm hoping my experience with MUD programming
    >can allow me to bring some new stuff to the table in the roguelike
    >community.

    Some friends and I did a MUD yeeeeeeeeeears ago, back when BBS's were
    big and the internet was for universities. (We only had one local BBS
    that had internet access.) My friends did the "normal" stuff; I coded
    some of the weirder stuff - unusual spells, a few intentional cheats,
    some stuff for admin-level characters, etc.
    --
    auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
    *****
    That last statement alone pushes the story from "sad" to
    "heartbreakingly tragic."
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    This day of Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:17:24 -0700, Auric__
    <not.my.real@email.address> saw fit to scribe:

    >Some friends and I did a MUD yeeeeeeeeeears ago, back when BBS's were
    >big and the internet was for universities. (We only had one local BBS
    >that had internet access.) My friends did the "normal" stuff; I coded
    >some of the weirder stuff - unusual spells, a few intentional cheats,
    >some stuff for admin-level characters, etc.

    Unless I'm making things up, are you the Auric whose name appears in
    some of the SMAUG sources?

    --
    David C. Haley
    http://david.the-haleys.org
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:27:56 -0700, David Haley wrote:

    >This day of Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:17:24 -0700, Auric__
    ><not.my.real@email.address> saw fit to scribe:
    >
    >>Some friends and I did a MUD yeeeeeeeeeears ago, back when BBS's were
    >>big and the internet was for universities. (We only had one local BBS
    >>that had internet access.) My friends did the "normal" stuff; I coded
    >>some of the weirder stuff - unusual spells, a few intentional cheats,
    >>some stuff for admin-level characters, etc.
    >
    >Unless I'm making things up, are you the Auric whose name appears in
    >some of the SMAUG sources?

    Probably not. You may be thinking of Thoric. From Wikipedia:
    "This project was started in May of 1994 by Derek Snider (Thoric),
    and in July of 1994, Realms of Despair was opened to the public."
    -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMAUG

    I've never heard of Mr. Snider before (nor of anyone called Thoric). A
    quick glance through some of the source code - grabbed from smaug.org -
    not only shows me nothing I recognize, but I don't see "Auric", or my
    name (not Auric), or anything I recognize as my code. (Not only that,
    but I've never heard of SMAUG before today, except from Tolkien.)
    --
    auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
    *****
    Me! Me! ME! I AM *THEY*!!!
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    Telamon wrote:

    > Still you have to ask yourself if the extra hours of
    > coding/researching/testing to make your code portable is really worth
    > it. I did a survey here a while ago and about 80% of the folks here
    > have a windows box.

    Likewise, about 80% of the people here have linux boxes too.
    I think we've reached the point where most gamers have more
    than one computer. (maybe even "most people" ....) So it's
    not as crucial any more to support many different environments
    as long as lots of people have *an* environment on which it
    will run.

    Bear
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

    In article <1119966215.517802.267620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    snispilbor@yahoo.com says...

    > Wow, the dungeon generating problem has a lot more to it than meets the
    > eye! I did it recursively, it still has occasional dead-ends or
    > unreachable areas though- got to do more work, hehe :)

    Not much, if they are occasional - you just have to detect them and use
    the same algorithm to make a new dungeon if it fails your tests.

    - Gerry Quinn
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