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Magic Maze

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Anonymous
June 27, 2005 2:09:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I was considering effects like the Abyss, in crawl, when I remembered a
ravensburger board game "A-maze-ing labyrinth" or somesuch name. the
relevant parts were: retrieving magical items from the dungeon, and a
constantly changing maze-

Here's what I remember best: the board has a grid of fixed tiles,
representing corridors, 1 tile width apart, leaving columns and rows to
be filled with variable tiles representing corridors of various
configuration. each turn, a player could insert a new tile, from the
pile of unused tiles, into one edge of the game-board, thus pushing
another off the other edge into oblivion.

More about : magic maze

Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:58:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Andreas Koch wrote:
> jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I was considering effects like the Abyss, in crawl, when I remembered a
> > ravensburger board game "A-maze-ing labyrinth" or somesuch name. the
> > relevant parts were: retrieving magical items from the dungeon, and a
> > constantly changing maze-
>
> "Das verrückte Labyrinth" or its sequel, "Labyrinth der Meister".
> (german titles). And your question or point about that game is?

> >I was considering possible effects like the Abyss, in crawl,
and this is one possible implementation
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 7:02:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The way I interpreted it is that
the maze would be ever-expanding,
and the player would have to use
every trick he could to get to
the edge of the map. Some useful spells
would be different kinds of teleport,
walk through walls, speed, jump, etc.
It'd be an obstacle course, constantly
slowing you down, knocking you back.

It could even be level-based. You actually
see the level increasing in size,
and if you reach the edge before the
sides of the screen are touched,
you start on a new, more difficult
maze.

Or, it could be a play-by-email
roguelike, in which each player
adds a new tile every 100 turns.
The tiles could be like randomly
generated American football plays,
like those various blitz and pass
plays you see when one plays those
boring football video games. 5 or
10 tiles of 10x10 or so would be
generated for the player to choose.

Or, scrap the tile selection, and
you might have a roguelike game
with a card-playing element.

Okay, I'm done.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 1:22:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com wrote:
> I was considering effects like the Abyss, in crawl, when I remembered a
> ravensburger board game "A-maze-ing labyrinth" or somesuch name. the
> relevant parts were: retrieving magical items from the dungeon, and a
> constantly changing maze-

"Das verrückte Labyrinth" or its sequel, "Labyrinth der Meister".
(german titles). And your question or point about that game is?
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 1:22:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

At Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:22:48 +0200,
Andreas Koch wrote:

> jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I was considering effects like the Abyss, in crawl, when I remembered a
>> ravensburger board game "A-maze-ing labyrinth" or somesuch name. the
>> relevant parts were: retrieving magical items from the dungeon, and a
>> constantly changing maze-

> "Das verrückte Labyrinth" or its sequel, "Labyrinth der Meister".
> (german titles). And your question or point about that game is?

Are you only permitted to post questions here?
It seems to be pretty interesting idea.

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
(*+) 3 Sparkle
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 2:21:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:

>>"Das verrückte Labyrinth" or its sequel, "Labyrinth der Meister".
>>(german titles). And your question or point about that game is?
>
> Are you only permitted to post questions here?
> It seems to be pretty interesting idea.

I didn't find the idea either.
The OP wants to create a sliding tiles maze in his RL?

Well that idea could be interesting, but how would one
implement control?

In the board game, each player turn consists of two subturns:

a) push the free floor tile in any of the free rows
b) move you game piece allong the currently open paths

While b) would be normal roguelike movement, how would you
do a) ?
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 2:21:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

At Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:21:14 +0200,
Andreas Koch wrote:

> The Sheep wrote:
>
>>>"Das verrückte Labyrinth" or its sequel, "Labyrinth der Meister".
>>>(german titles). And your question or point about that game is?
>
>> Are you only permitted to post questions here?
>> It seems to be pretty interesting idea.

> I didn't find the idea either.

You're not even trying.

> The OP wants to create a sliding tiles maze in his RL?

Do you have to have 'your RL' to post here?

> Well that idea could be interesting, but how would one
> implement control?

That's what's supposed to be discussed in this thread if there are any
interested posters, I guess.

> In the board game, each player turn consists of two subturns:
>
> a) push the free floor tile in any of the free rows
> b) move you game piece allong the currently open paths
>
> While b) would be normal roguelike movement, how would you
> do a) ?

You can do it randomly, you can base it on the player's move somehow,
you can give him some kind of spell or other ability to add a tile
once in a while, etc.

It's a loose idea, but I think it may lead to pretty interesting results.



--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
(: ) 3 Snap!
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 2:52:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

The Sheep wrote:

>>I didn't find the idea either.
> You're not even trying.
Someone seems to have communication problems.
Could be me, it's too late night...

>>The OP wants to create a sliding tiles maze in his RL?
> Do you have to have 'your RL' to post here?

Its a newsgroup about RL development, so it would make
sense to have a RL you want to develop, no?


>>Well that idea could be interesting, but how would one
>>implement control?
> That's what's supposed to be discussed in this thread if there are any
> interested posters, I guess.
Ah, thats why the original question was

"How could one implement the control aspect of a "Labyrinth der
Meister"-like subgame in Crawl"


>>While b) would be normal roguelike movement, how would you
>>do a) ?
>
> You can do it randomly,
Ok. That could get pretty frustration depending on the tile
selection - a "wrong" inserted tile can ruin the paths pretty
nicely.

> you can base it on the player's move somehow,
Sounds better - it would make it somehow controllable, while
not stopping the normal control flow.

> you can give him some kind of spell or other ability to add a tile
> once in a while, etc.
That would give best control, but would probably reduce immersion.
You would need some sort of aiming cursor to select the row/column
to be moved...

> It's a loose idea, but I think it may lead to pretty interesting results.
Yes. Could definitely make an interesting subgame.
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 2:52:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

At Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:52:30 +0200,
Andreas Koch wrote:

> The Sheep wrote:
>
>>>I didn't find the idea either.
>> You're not even trying.
> Someone seems to have communication problems.
> Could be me, it's too late night...

Sorry, I became hostile with no reason. Again :( 

>>>The OP wants to create a sliding tiles maze in his RL?
>> Do you have to have 'your RL' to post here?
> Its a newsgroup about RL development, so it would make
> sense to have a RL you want to develop, no?

Anyone who posts on topic and has something to add to the discussion is
welcome here. Developing your own game is definitely no requirement, but
it helps to keep yourself focused :) 

>>>Well that idea could be interesting, but how would one
>>>implement control?
>> That's what's supposed to be discussed in this thread if there are any
>> interested posters, I guess.
> Ah, thats why the original question was
> "How could one implement the control aspect of a "Labyrinth der
> Meister"-like subgame in Crawl"

I don't think it was the question. I'd rather say it was something along
the lines:
"What do you think about the idea? How would you implement it? What
pitfalls could there be for your implementation?"

That's how I like to interpret such posts, and that's what *I* mean when
I post ideas like this. Of course, we might be both wrong -- only the
original poster might know what he meant ;) 

>>>While b) would be normal roguelike movement, how would you
>>>do a) ?

>> You can do it randomly,
> Ok. That could get pretty frustration depending on the tile
> selection - a "wrong" inserted tile can ruin the paths pretty
> nicely.

It's the abyss! It's supposed to be frustrating ;) 
Anyways, it might be not so totally random -- there might be some kind of
pattern involved, for example.
It would require further investigation to find an algorithm of selecting
the rows, columns and tiles so that interesting mazes result.

Also, you could somehow mark the parts of the maze to be modified in
nearest future -- by some glowing runes, magical aura, anything -- this
would make things a little more predictable and hopefully less frustrating
(like lookahead in Tetris).

>> you can base it on the player's move somehow,
> Sounds better - it would make it somehow controllable, while
> not stopping the normal control flow.
It would also require quite a bit of thinking and experimenting to find
a plausible way of doing it. Honestly, I can't see a way to do it nicely.

>> you can give him some kind of spell or other ability to add a tile
>> once in a while, etc.
> That would give best control, but would probably reduce immersion.
> You would need some sort of aiming cursor to select the row/column
> to be moved...

You need the cursor for most ranged spells anyways, and they don't seem to
break the immersion too much -- these fall into meta controls.

But if you insist, you can always do it differently -- for example, by
droping (or throwing) some kinds of magic stones (with the tile to be
added drawn on them). Or you could give this ability to some monster or
player's pet and allow him only limited control over the creature (the
Ghostwheel would fit the role perfectly).

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
(Xx) 3 ...
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 2:03:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Andreas Koch wrote:
> The Sheep wrote:
>
> >>"Das verrückte Labyrinth" or its sequel, "Labyrinth der Meister".
> >>(german titles). And your question or point about that game is?
> >
> > Are you only permitted to post questions here?
> > It seems to be pretty interesting idea.
>
> I didn't find the idea either.
> The OP wants to create a sliding tiles maze in his RL?
>
> Well that idea could be interesting, but how would one
> implement control?

really the post was intended to trigger discussion as it might be
related or implemented in a roguelike.
I hope that doesn't make me a troll.

I first imagined a dungeon level which would shift at random intervals,
as in the abyss, or perhaps player accessible levers, located on the
"fixed tiles" would intentionally trigger the addition of a random
piece in a specific row and direction. I find the shifting maze to be
a gothic touch particularly suited to the fantasy setting; possibly a
bit unsettling to players used to a maze which is static (once it's
been randomly created) in their roguelikes.

You could go further, and delinearize the structure of the dungeon; and
carve it under a mountain, with multiple entrances and exits ( though
this would require some effort put into creating an outside world).Or
PC could go down a staircase to level number "?", only to find he needs
to beat a hasty retreat.
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 3:11:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

In article <DLlwe.22960$7X1.21692@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>,
amonroejj@yahoo.com says...

> Ever seen the boardgame "Dungeon Twister"?

I had this vision of a game where monsters have to put their feet on
certain coloured tiles to advance...

- Gerry Quinn
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 9:07:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

kind of like tetris.
jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com wrote:
|The way I interpreted it is that
|the maze would be ever-expanding,
|and the player would have to use
|every trick he could to get to
|the edge of the map. Some useful spells
|would be different kinds of teleport,
|walk through walls, speed, jump, etc.
|It'd be an obstacle course, constantly
|slowing you down, knocking you back.
|
|It could even be level-based. You actually
|see the level increasing in size,
|and if you reach the edge before the
|sides of the screen are touched,
|you start on a new, more difficult
|maze.
|
|Or, it could be a play-by-email
|roguelike, in which each player
|adds a new tile every 100 turns.
|The tiles could be like randomly
|generated American football plays,
|like those various blitz and pass
|plays you see when one plays those
|boring football video games. 5 or
|10 tiles of 10x10 or so would be
|generated for the player to choose.
|
|Or, scrap the tile selection, and
|you might have a roguelike game
|with a card-playing element.
|
|Okay, I'm done.
!