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Different way of doing dungeons

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Anonymous
July 14, 2005 4:42:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I was thinking of possibly taking a cue from the old Zelda games, and
handling my dungeons a bit differently. In Zelda, each room is
screen-sized, and seperate from all other rooms. Enemies/puzzles/etc.
do not travel across into different rooms, but rather stay local to
that particular room. This makes each room an individual problem,
which is somewhat appealing, from a gameplay perspective. Granted, it
lacks any realism, but, realism doesn't really belong in games anyways.

What does everyone here think of the idea of having an RL with
Zelda-style dungeons? Immediate advantages that come to mind: easier
to implement puzzles, easier to create interesting rooms/dungeons,
unique and original gameplay (for roguelikes, that is). Immediate
disadvantages that I can think of: less continuity, more artificial,
much harder to a smoothly integrated game world. Well, anyone else
able to offer some input into this idea?


--
My projects are currently on hold, but I do have
some junk at the site below.

http://www.freewebs.com/timsrl/index.htm

--

More about : dungeons

July 14, 2005 8:45:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

It seems to me that this system would be interesting but would probably
change the game too drastically. I am not saying change is bad, but in
this case, i think the others are right, this system would isolate the
game into pieces that themsleves would need more attention because of
it. In nethack there are lots of empty rooms. You just walk through
them. If 4/5ths of the time sombody entered a new mini level that was
just a room and it was empty they would loose intereste. The sheep is
right though, if you want to do this, it might be good as a quick 7drl
or soemthing.

In the game i am working on, I will have mose rooms connected but
sometimes there might be a buildings and in the case of a tower, floor
1 might be just connected to everything else but floors 2 and 3 would
be their own mini level separate from everythign else.... maybe
monsters could climb stairs though...

I think this idea is only bad if you try to apply this to every room in
the game!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

-Thomas
RL: CHAZM
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 9:07:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

At Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:42:54 -0400,
Timothy Pruett wrote:

> I was thinking of possibly taking a cue from the old Zelda games, and
> handling my dungeons a bit differently. In Zelda, each room is
> screen-sized, and seperate from all other rooms. Enemies/puzzles/etc.
> do not travel across into different rooms, but rather stay local to
> that particular room. This makes each room an individual problem,
> which is somewhat appealing, from a gameplay perspective. Granted, it
> lacks any realism, but, realism doesn't really belong in games anyways.

Note that Zelda's dungeons are hand-made so that they are interesting.
Note also, that the puzzles in Zelda require rather good reflexes than
wits.

With the approach you describe, you still have to generate the rooms. It's
the same as generating whole level, only harder, since now the individual
rooms must be interesting.

> What does everyone here think of the idea of having an RL with
> Zelda-style dungeons? Immediate advantages that come to mind: easier
> to implement puzzles, easier to create interesting rooms/dungeons,
> unique and original gameplay (for roguelikes, that is). Immediate
> disadvantages that I can think of: less continuity, more artificial,
> much harder to a smoothly integrated game world. Well, anyone else
> able to offer some input into this idea?

The advantages/disadvantages you present aren't really important form
gameplay perspective?

Note, that roguelikes are mainly about tactical combat and resource
management. What tactics can you use in an empty room with lots of
enemies? It's the corridors and room entrances that are interesting.

You could have a bunch of predefined rooms, or room fragments (the Wnag
tiles come to mind when you think on how to glue them together), and make
some interesting patterns, but you'll run of them fast.

Interaction of multiple rooms connected with corridors gives you some
complexity and diversity you can use.

Having said all that, I think it could be a good idea for 7drl to check
the grounds first.

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
(@a) 3 Be?
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 11:00:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

In article <slrnddd6ui.q6u.thesheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl>, The Sheep
<thesheep@ sheep.prv.pl> says...
> At Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:42:54 -0400,
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
> > I was thinking of possibly taking a cue from the old Zelda games, and
> > handling my dungeons a bit differently. In Zelda, each room is
> > screen-sized, and seperate from all other rooms. Enemies/puzzles/etc.
> > do not travel across into different rooms, but rather stay local to
> > that particular room. This makes each room an individual problem,
> > which is somewhat appealing, from a gameplay perspective. Granted, it
> > lacks any realism, but, realism doesn't really belong in games anyways.
>
> Note, that roguelikes are mainly about tactical combat and resource
> management. What tactics can you use in an empty room with lots of
> enemies? It's the corridors and room entrances that are interesting.

I think that's a good point for roguelikes, in which there's only one
player character.

Various party RPGs used this technique. You walk around a large-scale
map, and when you enter combat (by moving on a square with a monster
party or having them move on you) you enter a separate combat arena.

This can be entirely abstract (early Bards Tale and Might and Magic):
You face:
(a) 99 bats
(b) 10 vampires
(c) 10 vampires

Or it can be a mini-map (early Ultimas) generated for the purpose. In
this case you can still include interesting terrain - pools of mud in
the outdoors, boulders in caves.

Works well enough, but as I say I think it may need multiple PCs to
make it interesting.

- Gerry Quinn
!