Unconventional Random Maps

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Since I have been working on my roguelike game, much of my focus has
(perhaps wrongly) been placed on the the random virtual dungeon editor.
I would like to give each dungeon a different flavor, so I have some
generic randomization routines and specialized building routines for
each dungeon. Eventually I would like to remove the separate routines
and just toss them all into a nice config file.

Now that I'm done with my introduction, I want to talk about the
randomization routines in general. Most routines people use seem to
center around carving rooms and corridors, with some slightly more
sophisticated routines for ensuring an adequate floor-wall ratio
(typically 45%) and adding interesting features (monsters, chests, and
other non-map features).

Has anyone explored more unique randomization techniques? For instance,
one of my dungeons features two towers that are connected by bridges at
various levels. The towers themselves are the same shape (round), and
each floor contains stairs, some monsters, a central hallway, and a
partition of rooms. The probability of whether or not a bridge will
cross at a particular floor is a poisson distribution. Players will
have to cross to the other tower frequently because of locked doors -
each tower requires its own keys to unlock the doors. The basic
algorithm is to first build the towers with the bridges randomly
distributed (the towers themselves have 50 floors, and the bridges have
a mean of 5 floors, and always a bridge on the first floor). Next, I
"carve" out the floors from the connecting bridges in a way that
insures that every floor is reachable and connected to every other
floor of both towers. Lastly, I include the locked doors and the keys,
this time making sure that it is possible to obtain every key and
unlock every door, and of course, add in features like chests,
monsters, and fun dungeon features.

Here's a theoretical side-view of the two towers. Each row represents a
level of the tower, K stands for key, L stands for Locked Door, and the
key to the bottom door on the right tower is the one in the center of
the top bridge:



*....K....*
*L* *.*
*.* *.*
*** *.*
*.........*
*K* *L*
*.* *.*
*........K*
*K* ***
*.........*
*.* *.*
*L* *.*
*.........*
*.*~~~~~*L*
. ~~~~~ .......
.. ~~~~~ .......
. ~~~~~
. ~~~~~

So that's one of my ideas, I've got some more, but why spoil the fun?
;-)
 

Thomas

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Yeah, i like your idea a lot. I also was thinking about putting in
towers that would continue through part of the dungeon and possibly
connect. Also, at the end of my game, there will likely be a city taht
is split in half by a chasm and a huge bridge that spans the gorge. I
like that idea of keys and lock but if you have enough strength or
something, could you smash down the door?

-Thomas
RL: CHAZM
 
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You sure could not. The doors are sealed as tightly as the walls, so no
strong-arming them. There will probably be breakable doors throughout
the game, but these are different.
 
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Wildhalcyon wrote:
> Since I have been working on my roguelike game, much of my focus has
> (perhaps wrongly) been placed on the the random virtual dungeon editor.
> I would like to give each dungeon a different flavor, so I have some
> generic randomization routines and specialized building routines for
> each dungeon. Eventually I would like to remove the separate routines
> and just toss them all into a nice config file.
>
> Now that I'm done with my introduction, I want to talk about the
> randomization routines in general. Most routines people use seem to
> center around carving rooms and corridors, with some slightly more
> sophisticated routines for ensuring an adequate floor-wall ratio
> (typically 45%) and adding interesting features (monsters, chests, and
> other non-map features).
>
> Has anyone explored more unique randomization techniques? For instance,
> one of my dungeons features two towers that are connected by bridges at
> various levels. The towers themselves are the same shape (round), and
> each floor contains stairs, some monsters, a central hallway, and a
> partition of rooms. The probability of whether or not a bridge will
> cross at a particular floor is a poisson distribution. Players will
> have to cross to the other tower frequently because of locked doors -
> each tower requires its own keys to unlock the doors. The basic
> algorithm is to first build the towers with the bridges randomly
> distributed (the towers themselves have 50 floors, and the bridges have
> a mean of 5 floors, and always a bridge on the first floor). Next, I
> "carve" out the floors from the connecting bridges in a way that
> insures that every floor is reachable and connected to every other
> floor of both towers. Lastly, I include the locked doors and the keys,
> this time making sure that it is possible to obtain every key and
> unlock every door, and of course, add in features like chests,
> monsters, and fun dungeon features.
>
> Here's a theoretical side-view of the two towers. Each row represents a
> level of the tower, K stands for key, L stands for Locked Door, and the
> key to the bottom door on the right tower is the one in the center of
> the top bridge:
>
>
>
> *....K....*
> *L* *.*
> *.* *.*
> *** *.*
> *.........*
> *K* *L*
> *.* *.*
> *........K*
> *K* ***
> *.........*
> *.* *.*
> *L* *.*
> *.........*
> *.*~~~~~*L*
> . ~~~~~ .......
> .. ~~~~~ .......
> . ~~~~~
> . ~~~~~
>
> So that's one of my ideas, I've got some more, but why spoil the fun?
> ;-)

I really like the idea of unique algorithms. It's kind of like a happy
medium between dungeon branches and features. I really like the idea. I
hope don't mind if I use it?
 
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My example was poorly crafted and not to full scale, but the idea is
that you may have to backtrack downstairs in the new tower in order to
obtain a key to unlock a door to continue on. Theoretically, its
possible that the random algo could design the towers such that all you
ever need to do is trek up to the top, grab the key, and head back
down, but more than likely you would miss all the cool treasure to be
had on the way up in that case.
 
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Lauri Vallo wrote:
> On 2 Aug 2005 08:03:34 -0700, "Wildhalcyon" wrote:
>
> [lots of text with the idea: random towers with keys and locks]
>
> >Here's a theoretical side-view of the two towers. Each row represents a
> >level of the tower, K stands for key, L stands for Locked Door, and the
> >key to the bottom door on the right tower is the one in the center of
> >the top bridge:
> >
> >
> >
> >*....K....*
> >*L* *.*
> >*.* *.*
> >*** *.*
> >*.........*
> >*K* *L*
> >*.* *.*
> >*........K*
> >*K* ***
> >*.........*
> >*.* *.*
> >*L* *.*
> >*.........*
> >*.*~~~~~*L*
> > . ~~~~~ .......
> > .. ~~~~~ .......
> > . ~~~~~
> > . ~~~~~
>
> Ah, this (although handcrafted) was used in SNES era games some.
>
> But I can't follow your example.
> Wouldn't you only need to use that one key at the top?

For the boss maybe?
 
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And please, feel free to steal whatever ideas of mine are worthwhile
for your game. Im posting this for the benefit of the community,
hopefully.

I guess, what I was going for, was that random dungeons don't just have
to be about carving rooms out of stone and having corridors branching
every which way. They could be about utilizing templates and creating
(somewhat random) puzzles within them.

I think the technique - in as much as it can be called a technique -
could be used creatively and intelligently to add a bit of 'realism' to
the dungeon design for non-cave and non-catacomb dungeons. There are
several games (Legend of Zelda for one) which have towers for the
characters to scale which have floor plans that DON'T look like towers,
and I personally feel that this is.. well... problematic. Giving each
dungeon its own style through color schemes and unique creation
algorithms is as important to me as making sure that the righht
monsters are present.
 

Thomas

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I really like your idea. I knew that i wanted to have towers in my game
and i knew that i wanted lots of chasms (hense the name!) but i didn't
think of two towers connected with bridges that could be cool.

The best part is that you (the player) want to search everything and
get all the loot that you can except that you must chose your path and
you are either always missing half the map or you are making hard on
yourself by going up and down constantly to switch paths.... and there
isn't a bridge on both levels. You should have it so that stairs can
collapse so you cants sometimes get back up. (but only whre it isn't
vital that you get a key!)

Cool ideas!

-Thomas
RL: CHAZM
 
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On 2 Aug 2005 08:03:34 -0700, "Wildhalcyon" wrote:

[lots of text with the idea: random towers with keys and locks]

>Here's a theoretical side-view of the two towers. Each row represents a
>level of the tower, K stands for key, L stands for Locked Door, and the
>key to the bottom door on the right tower is the one in the center of
>the top bridge:
>
>
>
>*....K....*
>*L* *.*
>*.* *.*
>*** *.*
>*.........*
>*K* *L*
>*.* *.*
>*........K*
>*K* ***
>*.........*
>*.* *.*
>*L* *.*
>*.........*
>*.*~~~~~*L*
> . ~~~~~ .......
> .. ~~~~~ .......
> . ~~~~~
> . ~~~~~

Ah, this (although handcrafted) was used in SNES era games some.

But I can't follow your example.
Wouldn't you only need to use that one key at the top?
 
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On 2 Aug 2005 10:52:52 -0700, "Wildhalcyon" wrote:

>I guess, what I was going for, was that random dungeons don't just have
>to be about carving rooms out of stone and having corridors branching
>every which way. They could be about utilizing templates and creating
>(somewhat random) puzzles within them.

Yes, of course, very good idea in that way.
 
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"Wildhalcyon" <wildhalcyon@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1123000341.887043.100080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> You sure could not. The doors are sealed as tightly as the walls, so no
> strong-arming them. There will probably be breakable doors throughout
> the game, but these are different.
>

If the towers are round, you could have them rotate. Even if the player
strongarms the dor they look out over empty space.

JSwing