Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (
More info?)
Chris Morris wrote:
>Ray Dillinger writes:
>> And this brings up a central problem; the structure of
>> experience awards. Given that CRPG players will game the
>> experience system whenever they can, because they are like
>> junkies and leveling up is crack; how do you arrange the
>> experience awards so that they don't do nonsensical things
>> that destroy or destructure the adventure?
>>
>> * Experience awards for exploration
>> * Limited experience per species.
>> * Big awards tied to accomplishing missions.
>
>Additional possibilities
> - make monsters tougher the more of their kind that have been killed
> previously (ADoM does this, though with some well-known bugs)
> - use a game clock (literal, or hunger, or corruption) to keep PCs
> moving instead of hanging around in the Room of Very Easy Monsters
> - the more monsters that are killed in an area, the more likely a
> *really* out-of-depth monster will come to investigate.
> - don't replace monsters that are killed
One way is to throw out the numbers and make it an adventure game,
your power is your equipment. We have enough of these crpg math games.
Another way is to just take out all the exploitable bugs out of the
system so that even a munchkin plays like everyone else.
Limited exp per species could work if the limit is low enough (5-50),
so repetitive behaviour isn't encouraged.
Monsters getting tougher doesn't always make sense and won't fix the
problem completely.
A game clock is good, but too often exploitable, and can make the game
stressful if the game is open ended.
Out of depth surprises don't always make sense.
Permanently dead monsters make the game feel static.
So I would give exp for exploring By giving exp only for killing the
first few times. This exp I would rather not call "exp", but some sort
of fighting or spellcasting skill, whatever was used. No reason to
keep the "math game" stamp if the game isn't about it. Getting items
would be the other way to power. They'd come through quests, boss
monsters and secret stashes, which would mean exploring.
The best adventure game I've played is fairy tale adventure 2. Most of
the game is open ended exploring in a very nice amount of content, few
quests (no stressful lists), a weak story with not much guidance. I
don't remember it having exp, but it had weapon skills that rose
slowly. It was good as you weren't pushed anywhere, and couldn't get
lost as things would kill you fast, but you had many ways to explore
still. Things respawned, but slowly. You felt weak in the beginning,
but got bits of items here and there, always trying your limits. I
didn't feel like doing anything repetitive as there was so much
content.
(The only problem I had was with the typical crpg saving and loading,
which Is another double edged sword. Give me a mode where I get a
penalty for "dying" and only the roguelike quit and come back -saving
and I'm happy. But if you let me die that would also break immersion.
So I hope there is some way to make battles tough and let you try them
again a few times without breaking immersion with saving and loading,
or make me start the whole game again, or anything strap-on and
cheesy)
) worlds. This pattern can be fine-tuned,
....
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