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Skillsystem Idea (2.Try)

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Anonymous
August 10, 2005 1:16:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I will try to explain my skill system again,i hope i can make it more
understandable this time.I think i will try to explain it with a
example(purely fictional i haven't put much thought in town development and
quest yet)

Kurt the player starts the game for the first time and is asked for the name
of his character he names him Bob and than chooses the dwarf race ,than
comes a screen with the startshop.Kurt sees that Bob has already a item
called miner orb in his inventory,after reading the description of the orb
he knows that this orb will grant skills related to digging when it is
equited in a orbslot, and he decides to buy a pickaxe and a leatherhelmet
with his startmoney.

Than starts the game,Bob finds himself in a small mining town,it is more
like a camp than a settlement.Kurt lets Bob equided the orb and the
pickaxe,than he looks at the skillscreen to see his cool miner powers and
sees that he has no skills and at the bottom of the skillscreen is the
following line:To grow your orb to Level 1 you must dig 10 squares.Bod goes
than into the mine and discovers that it ends after 2 squares.Bod digs north
,but unfortnaly hits soft rock that damages his pickaxe not the other way
around,he could proable dig throught it when he hit it several time and
risking the loose of his pickaxe.
Than he diggs the west wall and luckily it is dirt and it only costs him a
huge amount of stamine to dig it up.After some rest he digs throught the
other 9 squares he needs to grow the orb,when he has achived that the he is
automaticly switched to the skillscreen and is asked which skillset of his
orb he want to advanche physical,magical,spiritual or knowledge.He chooses
knowledge and is informed that he can now identify what kind of stone a wall
is by looking at it and he now can find something called focusstones and
that his strenght raised 3% of a point.Kurt thinks that would have been
usefull before Bob almost destroyed his pickaxe by hitting the wrong walls.
After some time playing Bob has finished 50% of his spiritual skillset he is
asked
if he want his miner orb to spawn a orb for the druid or the priest class
and that now one Bob orb is avaible at the startshop.He has finished the
quest for the mayor to dig a tunnel to the other side of the mountain for
the carawan that brings supplys to the town.That raised wealth level of the
town and allowed the building of a libary and now he is able to research the
thing he identified with identify to gain even more informations about
them.Bob decides to do research on black rats ,because they are a problem
for him and he hopes to find a weak point,Bob is than informed that the
research needs one day of realtime.

Kurt is bored during that day and starts another character named John. John
can now decide which he wants to buy the Bob orb or something else from the
improved startshop equidment (remeber the wealth level of the town
raised).John buys the Bob orb and a pickaxe and can now develop in one orb
the physical skillset and in the other the magical skillset.
Because this is faster than developing the skillsets in the same orb,but
harder because Bob has already dugged up lots of squares on the easier
levels of the mine, he has soon a wizzard and a warrior orb and must now
decide should he remove one of miner orbs and suffer stat-reduction and
loose of 1 skill in every set in the removed orb or to keep them both and
equit the wizzard or the warrior orb,because he has only one empty orbslot
left.

And so contunies the game Kurt developts more skills and character and the
town grows and grows......

More about : skillsystem idea

August 10, 2005 1:16:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Hmmm. Sounds like you are creating quite a different game from your
typical RL. I tend to like a classic feel like nethack but this is
cirtainly interesting... (In fact i might describe CHAZM as a typical
RL beefed up with lots of cool features...!)
I am going to implement a fairly normal skill system with pionts earned
at different actions and at level ups... you can train a skill
requiring points and time... and get a higher score in that. I think i
understand your system ok and if you like it then go for it. I still
think that the end is a little confusing. Spawning other orbs?... what?

Anyway. I think this is interesting? Does your character always stay in
one town. is it significant that its a mining town. If you were an elf
wizard then would you be in a magic guild in the trees? :) 
interesting.... Sound like a mix Simulation/RL.... cant say it would
work but it might be worth a go....

-Thomas
RL: CHAZM

P.S. does anyone else have ideas on how to implement a system of skill
catagories... possibly where a catagory would inherit partial points
from its sub skills like:

physical->swimming
physical->riding

adding 5 points to swimming would maybe increase physical a little and
help riding just a bit also?... prerequisits and stuff? how would you
all deal with those... I'm a little lost with my skill system also.

But to end this long PS i will ask a Q...

AF: Does your system spawn the orbs... (???) from catagories... i think
you lost me around there? :) 
August 10, 2005 1:16:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Wow... not in an insullting way but... you game is really out there!
I've never heard of anything quite like it....

> other races will be unlockable throught quests and the orb system.

So... like some single player games... you will be able to play and
unlock races and cities?... interesting...

> (and undergroundlevels are a RL tradition)

um... standalone games that are randome and different are also an RL
tradition!

Well maybe nethack bones files are an exception... unlocking cities
seeems more like a CRPG trait! ;) 

I really hate to ask this because youve been trying to clarafy over and
over but your game seems really different from an RL. I am not saying
it doesent share enought with a typical RL to warrent posting here but
it seems you may need to explain all the ways your game differs from
say nethack, adom, or *band... ToME...

I, and likely many here, are working under the assumption that your
game is at least mostly like these other games in basic traits. Many
games are extreemly different from the oldschool RLs but their engine
is much the same even if the setting isn't... your game seems to be
working on a whole other level! Good luck with your game but if you
want help... at least from me (I cant speek for others) you may want to
specify what this system IS not just how it WORKS. Are orbs items you
can pickup or just representations of skill? I would like to discuss
your system ( ;-) ) but i am at a loss because i think we are making
some assumptions about what eachother is saying/thinking.

Basically how is/isn't your game an RL!

Great... GL...

-Thomas
RL: CHAZM
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Anonymous
August 10, 2005 3:04:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Thomas" <comments@foresightsagas.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1123617305.739381.41300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...



> Anyway. I think this is interesting? Does your character always stay in
> one town. is it significant that its a mining town. If you were an elf
> wizard then would you be in a magic guild in the trees? :) 

It is a mining town,because i planed the game to start with only dwarven
races
(and undergroundlevels are a RL tradition)and other races will be unlockable
throught quests and the orb system.


You could proable start other towns at the start of the game and than export
items between them and visit them,maybe even between computer if i find a
good way to prevent that this is missused to duplicate items.

Your idea of race specific towns sound good maybe i add that too.




>
> AF: Does your system spawn the orbs... (???) from catagories... i think
> you lost me around there? :) 
>

Yes orbs for other classes are spawned when a skillset reaches 50% and at
100% you get something usefull for the class that this skillset spawned.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:51:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Thomas" <comments@foresightsagas.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1123626835.347365.171570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Wow... not in an insullting way but... you game is really out there!
> I've never heard of anything quite like it....

> > other races will be unlockable throught quests and the orb system.
>
> So... like some single player games... you will be able to play and
> unlock races and cities?... interesting...
>
> > (and undergroundlevels are a RL tradition)
>
> um... standalone games that are randome and different are also an RL
> tradition!
>
> Well maybe nethack bones files are an exception... unlocking cities
> seeems more like a CRPG trait! ;) 
>
> I really hate to ask this because youve been trying to clarafy over and
> over but your game seems really different from an RL. I am not saying
> it doesent share enought with a typical RL to warrent posting here but
> it seems you may need to explain all the ways your game differs from
> say nethack, adom, or *band... ToME...
>
> I, and likely many here, are working under the assumption that your
> game is at least mostly like these other games in basic traits. Many
> games are extreemly different from the oldschool RLs but their engine
> is much the same even if the setting isn't... your game seems to be
> working on a whole other level! Good luck with your game but if you
> want help... at least from me (I cant speek for others) you may want to
> specify what this system IS not just how it WORKS. Are orbs items you
> can pickup or just representations of skill?

Orbs are items you can pickup like the materia in Final Fantasy,that allows
some nice options like a orb eating monster.

>I would like to discuss
> your system ( ;-) ) but i am at a loss because i think we are making
> some assumptions about what eachother is saying/thinking.

>
> Basically how is/isn't your game an RL!
>

RL:
- random maps (games in the same town will use the same map but it is still
randomly generated)
- permadeath
- lots of items and monsters to find#
- round based

Not-RL:
- lots of things can be named by the player (the town,the
character,books,orbs,gods...)
- the efficence of skills depents only on the stats and not on a skilllevel
- several retirement options for a character (not only death and finding of
the big treasure)
- Levels espand horizontal and vertical
- More influence for the player on the gameworld
- Real time as ressource that the player can spend to gain some things
- a huge amount of classes and skills,even if i make the classtree only 3
levels deep and only spawn 1 class from one skillset i come to 25 classes
- leveling depends in a lot of different requirments not only Exp
- the player can produce lots of items (that is a must or i would run out on
ideas for skills soon)
- there will be some differences in the god and magic system
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 12:56:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 21:16:29 +0200, "Adrian Fänger" <Faenger@heliweb.de>
wrote:

>I will try to explain my skill system again,i hope i can make it more
>understandable this time.I think i will try to explain it with a
>example(purely fictional i haven't put much thought in town development and
>quest yet)

With your spawning orbs and developing town, this reminds me of the
posts of a fellow who called himself Shockfrost. You might look up his
old posts on Google Groups and see if you can't see how his ideas may
help you develop yours.

Also, while you aren't perhaps as overly ambitious as Shockfrost, you
really should develop a scaled-back concept for something not much more
complex than Rogue as your first attempt. Unlike some around here, I
won't discourage you developing ideas for your dream game -- having a
vision of where you'd like to head is useful, but if you want to
actually get there, you need to pick some bite-sized intermediate steps.
Your first RL needs to be something where you get the basics in, with a
few of the key twists you require for the direction in which you want to
develop, but not much more than that. That gives you a working base for
further development (or a lot of learning on which to base the rewrite),
but until you have that you probably won't make progress. *Every* major
roguelike was developed stepwise and you need to pick an achievable
first step.

--
R. Dan Henry = danhenry@inreach.com
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 2:40:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

I hear that. I've spent the better part of the week working on the
design doc of my game, and of the initial ideas for inclusion, about
75% of them are for "later releases". Im first focusing on having a
working game, which as of now means at least a town and a dungeon
(think Angband). Essentially, at this point, I have an RL. But its not
a very unique one.. (although, as you've mentioned, it will have the
"twists" Im including, such as some fantasy-tech, a novel UI, and new
skill classes)

So the next step is to add the flavouring - Ive got several dungeons in
mind, some additional UI implementations, the gradual inclusion of side
quests and random quests, etc. Following that.. we'll see. The further
into the future I try to look, the fuzzier the picture I have. Really,
the key to success with most RLs is GET SOMETHING DONE. I've been
working feverishly getting everything in order, I'll begin some heavy
coding sometime next week.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 3:14:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

At 10 Aug 2005 22:40:57 -0700,
Wildhalcyon wrote:

> I hear that. I've spent the better part of the week working on the
> design doc of my game, and of the initial ideas for inclusion, about
> 75% of them are for "later releases". Im first focusing on having a
> working game, which as of now means at least a town and a dungeon
> (think Angband). Essentially, at this point, I have an RL. But its not
> a very unique one.. (although, as you've mentioned, it will have the
> "twists" Im including, such as some fantasy-tech, a novel UI, and new
> skill classes)

Well, not that I want to discourage you, or something, but... YAGNI
<http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?YagNi&gt;

> So the next step is to add the flavouring - Ive got several dungeons in
> mind, some additional UI implementations, the gradual inclusion of side
> quests and random quests, etc. Following that.. we'll see. The further
> into the future I try to look, the fuzzier the picture I have. Really,
> the key to success with most RLs is GET SOMETHING DONE. I've been
> working feverishly getting everything in order, I'll begin some heavy
> coding sometime next week.

I strongly advice to start coding as soon as possible -- to validate get
something done, as you say, but mostly, to validate your ideas, so that
you won't have to change all your design later because of some false
assumptions. These things are hard to 'get right' by only looking at them.

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
(`') 3 Grrr!
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .
!