My Hotel

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Okay, bare with me for a moment. As of now, I work, and live, at a
hotel. The hotel is roughly 30-40 years old, so it isn't really
rundown, but it's starting to show some signs of wear and tear. It's
nothing special, just pretty mediocre and average. It has 110 rooms, a
few offices, an indoor pool nestled in the atrium, exercise room, 2
laundry rooms, a few storage rooms, a bar, restaurant, and kitchen, and
some basement rooms. Now, most of this stuff looks pretty normal,
except for the following:

The bar and restaurant are temporarily closed, and I find that
(semi-)abandoned areas have a creepy kind of vibe at times.

The kitchen is open for breakfast every morning, but only a small
fraction of it is used, and the rest stays darkened, constantly creaking
and echoing strange noises across the area.

The basement areas are creepy as hell. The kitchen has two stairways
into the basement, neither have doors, so you can see down there
everytime you pass by. The stairs are a bit unnerving, too, for reasons
hard to explain. Something about them just seem a bit, off. Like, they
weren't built to normal specifications, and the stairs are just a
*little* bit too shallow, and a *little* bit too wide, giving it an
ominous look. Now, actually going into the basements is more than a bit
scary. They could easily be sets for some kind of horror movie, and
have a dark, oppressive, cold feel to them, much different than your
typical basement. I wouldn't be surprised to find some psychotic serial
killer living down there, with his collection of human "trophies" all
lined up on the concrete floor.

Anyway, I've been thinking lately, that my hotel could make the perfect
setting for a creepy, mystery-unraveling, survival horror game. I think
I'd be able to lend the game a certain degree of authenticity, given the
fact that I could use the actual hotel blueprints in the game, which
would certainly enhance the realism. However, using the actual hotel
layout in the game would negate the need for a random dungeon generator,
which is sort of an essential need for any RL. After some thinking, I
figured that a game (in my opinion) can still be an RL, even with a
hardcoded map, *if* it randomized enough other gameplay elements, such
as event locations, events, monsters, items, etc.

As is necessary for any "horror" game, I'd keep combat to a minimum.
Any combat present would be very deadly and difficult, and would most
certainly require clever thinking or plain old luck. At the start of
the game, I'd probably have a randomly generated plotline get chosen at
the start of the game (note: not a truly random plot, but just choosing
randomly from a list of premade plots). They'd involve a mystery to be
unraveled, complete with murders/supernatural/occult/etc. Possibly some
Lovecraftian influence, but if so, kept to a minimum.

Anyway, that's it. Any comments/suggestion/ideas? Obviously this
probably is most interesting to me, given the fact that the game would
take place in my home/job, but, if done right, surely someone else would
want to play it...
 
G

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On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:42:24 -0500, Timothy Pruett wrote:

>Any comments/suggestion/ideas?

Move somewhere else?
--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
- Did you get the cause of death?
- We're pretty sure it's the knife in his back, sir.
 
G

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Timothy Pruett wrote:
> Anyway, I've been thinking lately, that my hotel could make the perfect
> setting for a creepy, mystery-unraveling, survival horror game. I think
> I'd be able to lend the game a certain degree of authenticity, given the
> fact that I could use the actual hotel blueprints in the game, which
> would certainly enhance the realism. However, using the actual hotel
> layout in the game would negate the need for a random dungeon generator,
> which is sort of an essential need for any RL. After some thinking, I
> figured that a game (in my opinion) can still be an RL, even with a
> hardcoded map, *if* it randomized enough other gameplay elements, such
> as event locations, events, monsters, items, etc.

There's quite a lot about the hotel that could be randomized to provide
a fairly fresh game environment. In order to get the most "realism",
all the guest room floors should probably be identical for stacking
purposes (at least beyond the 2nd floor usually - I've also seen more
than one that has a pool on the 2nd floor roof + an additional 6
floors). Certain elements should go together - like the restaurant/bar
& kitchen. The basement should probably have a nice layndry room, there
is a lobby, maybe some conference rooms, etc.

> As is necessary for any "horror" game, I'd keep combat to a minimum.
> Any combat present would be very deadly and difficult, and would most
> certainly require clever thinking or plain old luck. At the start of
> the game, I'd probably have a randomly generated plotline get chosen at
> the start of the game (note: not a truly random plot, but just choosing
> randomly from a list of premade plots). They'd involve a mystery to be
> unraveled, complete with murders/supernatural/occult/etc. Possibly some
> Lovecraftian influence, but if so, kept to a minimum.

Not crazy about the random plot maybe, but random quests are nice,
although maybe horror games dont have those as much...

> Anyway, that's it. Any comments/suggestion/ideas? Obviously this
> probably is most interesting to me, given the fact that the game would
> take place in my home/job, but, if done right, surely someone else would
> want to play it...

Heck, if its well done, I'll play anything. I downloaded a game last
week that's so-so for interface design, but is smashingly fun, and
focuses on stacking up random blocks to make a giant 3D openGL tower.
Craziness!
 
G

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Auric__ wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:42:24 -0500, Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>
>>Any comments/suggestion/ideas?
>
>
> Move somewhere else?

Good one. :-D

That was definitely worth a good laugh.
 
G

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Wildhalcyon ha escrito:
>
> There's quite a lot about the hotel that could be randomized to provide
> a fairly fresh game environment. In order to get the most "realism",
> all the guest room floors should probably be identical for stacking
> purposes (at least beyond the 2nd floor usually - I've also seen more
> than one that has a pool on the 2nd floor roof + an additional 6
> floors). Certain elements should go together - like the restaurant/bar
> & kitchen. The basement should probably have a nice layndry room, there
> is a lobby, maybe some conference rooms, etc.

The layout of the base floor could (easily?) be 100% randomized. As
long as you don't have to enter the hotel through the bathroom or the
kitchen you could place any room besides the entrance randomly attached
to it, place the stairway in there or through a hallway, etc. Basements
could lead (through a crack on the floor) to a section of the sewer
system, to some unknown underground graveyard into a cavern, to an
abandoned tube tunnel, or to any other scary place. Upper floors
should, if not be identical, have the same hallway placement.

> Not crazy about the random plot maybe, but random quests are nice,
> although maybe horror games dont have those as much...

Silent Hill (yes, I know it has plot :p) has some "quests" embedded
into the plot, like when you have to take (sorry, I don't remember it
clearly) some medicine to the policewoman to reverse his zombie
transformation.
 
G

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Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

At Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:42:24 -0500,
Timothy Pruett wrote:

> which is sort of an essential need for any RL. After some thinking, I
> figured that a game (in my opinion) can still be an RL, even with a
> hardcoded map, *if* it randomized enough other gameplay elements, such
> as event locations, events, monsters, items, etc.

I think it's enough to randomize the doors (closed/locked/barred, etc.)
and the room's contents to have a nice, random map.

> As is necessary for any "horror" game, I'd keep combat to a minimum.
> Any combat present would be very deadly and difficult, and would most
> certainly require clever thinking or plain old luck.

I've heard this many times before, but... somehow I don't see it.
You *have* to have some use for all that equipment, items, spells, etc.

Ok, you could make the items work as various 'keys', a la Adventure, but
that's hardly roguelikeish and really hard to randomize and still keep
interesting.

You could make the combnat without killing -- you win when you forced
the monster to retreat (or managed to retreat yourself).

Or have some substitute for combat, where you could use your equipment and
skills to your advantage, but with risk.

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
(Uu) 3 Sigh!
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .
 
G

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Radomir 'The Sheep' Dopieralski wrote:
> At Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:42:24 -0500,
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>
>>which is sort of an essential need for any RL. After some thinking, I
>>figured that a game (in my opinion) can still be an RL, even with a
>>hardcoded map, *if* it randomized enough other gameplay elements, such
>>as event locations, events, monsters, items, etc.
>
>
> I think it's enough to randomize the doors (closed/locked/barred, etc.)
> and the room's contents to have a nice, random map.
>
>
>>As is necessary for any "horror" game, I'd keep combat to a minimum.
>>Any combat present would be very deadly and difficult, and would most
>>certainly require clever thinking or plain old luck.
>
>
> I've heard this many times before, but... somehow I don't see it.
> You *have* to have some use for all that equipment, items, spells, etc.

Well, ideally, I'd keep most gameplay elements as realistic as
possible, to make the bizarre/horror/creepy elements that much more
effective. Which means, I only really have two options, when it comes
to making combat difficult and deadly.

1) Go realtime. Then I can make it combat skill-based, which favors
hand-eye coordination, but allows those with less than speedy
responses to retreat and find alternate ways to deal with the enemy.

2) Take a deeper, more strategetic approach. Lots of skills, lots of
counters, dodging, parrying, etc. Make actual hits rare but
effective. This would not be easy to balance, and would require a bit
of a different approach to traditional RL combat.

> Ok, you could make the items work as various 'keys', a la Adventure, but
> that's hardly roguelikeish and really hard to randomize and still keep
> interesting.
>
> You could make the combnat without killing -- you win when you forced
> the monster to retreat (or managed to retreat yourself).

That's a possibility, and an appealing one, when dealing with certain
supernatural entities.

> Or have some substitute for combat, where you could use your equipment and
> skills to your advantage, but with risk.

In a game like this, I can't really think of a way to do this, and
keep it fun.


--
My projects are currently on hold, but I do have
some junk at the site below.

http://www.freewebs.com/timsrl/index.htm

--
 
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"Timothy Pruett" <drakalor.tourist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:k0UKe.26351$Tt6.22778@fe04.lga...
> Okay, bare with me for a moment. As of now, I work, and live, at a
> hotel. The hotel is roughly 30-40 years old, so it isn't really
> rundown, but it's starting to show some signs of wear and tear. It's
> nothing special, just pretty mediocre and average. It has 110 rooms,
> a few offices, an indoor pool nestled in the atrium, exercise room, 2
> laundry rooms, a few storage rooms, a bar, restaurant, and kitchen,
> and some basement rooms. Now, most of this stuff looks pretty normal,
> except for the following:
> [..]

I'm curious as to how you would be representing this hotel. It
reminds me a lot of how I felt playing Resident Evil 1 on my old PSX, or
even longer ago with Alone in the Dark. Both of these achieve the look
and feel by going 3d. Are you planning on going along that route?

--
Glen
L:pyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
 
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Glen Wheeler wrote:
> "Timothy Pruett" <drakalor.tourist@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:k0UKe.26351$Tt6.22778@fe04.lga...
>
>>Okay, bare with me for a moment. As of now, I work, and live, at a
>>hotel. The hotel is roughly 30-40 years old, so it isn't really
>>rundown, but it's starting to show some signs of wear and tear. It's
>>nothing special, just pretty mediocre and average. It has 110 rooms,
>>a few offices, an indoor pool nestled in the atrium, exercise room, 2
>>laundry rooms, a few storage rooms, a bar, restaurant, and kitchen,
>>and some basement rooms. Now, most of this stuff looks pretty normal,
>>except for the following:
>>[..]
>
>
> I'm curious as to how you would be representing this hotel. It
> reminds me a lot of how I felt playing Resident Evil 1 on my old PSX, or
> even longer ago with Alone in the Dark. Both of these achieve the look
> and feel by going 3d. Are you planning on going along that route?

Not unless some talented 3D modellers want to do some free work for me...

Nah, I'll likely be going the tiled route. Unfortunately, my options
are as limited as my budget.


--
My projects are currently on hold, but I do have
some junk at the site below.

http://www.freewebs.com/timsrl/index.htm

--
 
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Timothy Pruett <drakalor.tourist@gmail.com> wrote in
news:k0UKe.26351$Tt6.22778@fe04.lga:

<snip creepy hotel description>

> Anyway, that's it. Any comments/suggestion/ideas? Obviously this
> probably is most interesting to me, given the fact that the game would
> take place in my home/job, but, if done right, surely someone else would
> want to play it...

Horror is tough to do well, and even tougher in a RL game.

Most horror depends on thing that are not game mechanics; horror generally
depends on writing or visuals to convey that things are not as they are
expected.

RLs have simple graphics, and most have an interface that offers little
space for writing large chunks of text. So it is difficult to invoke the
creeepy / horror mood.


Some things to try/think about:

I once tried a choose-your-own adventure book with a horror setting. The
player had a 'fright' score in addition to the standard hp. If you saw
something spooky, you lost fright points and could lose the game if they
reqched zero. It was simple but effective. There are plenty of paper rpgs
with something similar (a sanity or fear mechanic).


If I did a RL horror game, I would secretly build in some more complex
graphics routines. The basic game would look like standard ASCII, but then
all sorts of weird spooky effects creep in using more advanced graphics -
something that catches the player by surprise. I'm thinking animated
effects mostly, like blood dripping down the # walls, or translucent
ghosts, some sort of spooky wall length mirror in the ballroom, or
somesuch. Or maybe stick with subtle effects like the floor tile periods
moving around bit within their squares, then snapping back into place.

That way the normal expected world would be plain ASCII, and the
supernatural unexpected stuff gets some fancy effects. And the player gets
spooked and intrigued, while the designer doesn't need to spend a huge set
of resources on graphics.


The other problem is replay value. Once the player has seen the story /
beasties / whatever, the scariness loses some punch. I'm not sure how to
fix this one.

Hope this helps,
JSwing
 
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JSwing wrote:
> Timothy Pruett <drakalor.tourist@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:k0UKe.26351$Tt6.22778@fe04.lga:
>
> <snip creepy hotel description>
>
>>Anyway, that's it. Any comments/suggestion/ideas? Obviously this
>>probably is most interesting to me, given the fact that the game would
>>take place in my home/job, but, if done right, surely someone else would
>>want to play it...
>
>
> Horror is tough to do well, and even tougher in a RL game.
>
> Most horror depends on thing that are not game mechanics; horror generally
> depends on writing or visuals to convey that things are not as they are
> expected.

There are a couple of exceptions, and you hit upon one below.

> Some things to try/think about:
>
> I once tried a choose-your-own adventure book with a horror setting. The
> player had a 'fright' score in addition to the standard hp. If you saw
> something spooky, you lost fright points and could lose the game if they
> reqched zero. It was simple but effective. There are plenty of paper rpgs
> with something similar (a sanity or fear mechanic).

One of the things I did that most profoundly changed the mood of my
game and made it spooky and desperate-seeming, was to split damage
into stun and body, and make body healing happen a lot slower. Since
most damage is stun, the character can still get into a half-dozen
fights in a row, and the stun healing will work at the rate it used
to (ie, back to normal in a few minutes). But the body damage will
take a longer time to heal, and a dozen fights in a row is out of
the question. So as a player, I look at my damage and look for a
spot to hole up and barricade for long enough to try to heal -- a
couple of days, maybe? Do I have enough food? Will the barricade
hold? Will I be trapped here forever?

Basically, the character has to have something to worry about;
one possibility is some kind of damage that doesn't easily or
quickly go away, and which reduces capabilities in a way that
makes even ordinarily easy jobs desperate and chancy. Fix it
so he can take some of this damage, and so that some is
inevitable; but arrange a slippery slope where the "easy" way
to do things leaves larger, lasting detrimental effects on the
character and makes future things less easy.

You have to make the character worry about the possibility of
making *negative* progress, in terms of a character that gets
weaker if badly played or if bad luck bites, but may also get
stronger.

Bear
 
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At Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:04 GMT,
Ray Dillinger wrote:

> JSwing wrote:
>> Timothy Pruett <drakalor.tourist@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:k0UKe.26351$Tt6.22778@fe04.lga:
> You have to make the character worry about the possibility of
> making *negative* progress, in terms of a character that gets
> weaker if badly played or if bad luck bites, but may also get
> stronger.

That's white rattlesnakes are so scary in Rogue ;)

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
<..> ] 0110110?
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .
 
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Ray Dillinger <bear@sonic.net> wrote in
news:wapLe.8976$p%3.36712@typhoon.sonic.net:

> JSwing wrote:
>>
>> Horror is tough to do well, and even tougher in a RL game.
>>
>> Most horror depends on thing that are not game mechanics; horror
>> generally depends on writing or visuals to convey that things are not
>> as they are expected.
>
> There are a couple of exceptions, and you hit upon one below.
>

> One of the things I did that most profoundly changed the mood of my
> game and made it spooky and desperate-seeming, was to split damage
> into stun and body, and make body healing happen a lot slower. Since
> most damage is stun, the character can still get into a half-dozen
> fights in a row, and the stun healing will work at the rate it used
> to (ie, back to normal in a few minutes). But the body damage will
> take a longer time to heal, and a dozen fights in a row is out of
> the question. So as a player, I look at my damage and look for a
> spot to hole up and barricade for long enough to try to heal -- a
> couple of days, maybe? Do I have enough food? Will the barricade
> hold? Will I be trapped here forever?
>


I think that's a great idea for non-standard hack-n-slash.

There's a paper RPG called Alternity that extends your model even further.
There's stun, wounds, and mortal damage. Stun and wounds are pretty much
like you describe. A mortal wound means you are dying (though still awake
and functioning), and if these don't get treated, start the player starts
losing additional mortal wounds.


JSwing
 

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