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Vignette RL: You Only Live Once

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Anonymous
August 28, 2005 3:22:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

In a previous post Jeff Lait pointed me to his 7-day RL "You Only Like Once"
(http://www.zincland.com/7drl/liveonce/) as an example of how to make OOP
and RL logic play nice together. I've only done a cursory review of the
code, so I don't have anything to say about that yet. However, as a RL it's
pretty neat. People should check it out. I think the "vignette style" RL is
underdone and there's a lot of cool design space to be explored there.

For those who haven't played it, it's a short (1-2 hr) game with a nice
story.

For a 7-day RL, it's pretty impressive. There were a couple of things that
were starting to bother me by the end of the game (namely hiking all the way
down to the bottom of the dungeon every time I lost a character). The best
part was that the villiage was pretty alive with NPCs, which added to the
story. It's the only ASCII-based RL I've ever been able to play in ASCII
mode. Most ASCII games have a ridiculously high learning curve ("Gee, I
wonder what character X represents, better give it a (l)ook"), but this one
had just the right number of symbols. So that's a pretty good endorsement.

I'm thinking that my own RL should explore the "vignette style". It will be
kind of like Yoda Stories where you can generate a mission, beat it in two
hours, and go on with your life - characters carrying over between games. In
my opinion, this beats the hell out of the "Get to level 10,000 of the
dungeon and finally destroy the Evil Sponge Overlord of Doooooooom (DUN DUN
DUN)" game model.

More about : vignette live

Anonymous
August 29, 2005 2:20:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Shedletsky wrote:
> In a previous post Jeff Lait pointed me to his 7-day RL "You Only Like Once"
> (http://www.zincland.com/7drl/liveonce/) as an example of how to make OOP
> and RL logic play nice together. I've only done a cursory review of the
> code, so I don't have anything to say about that yet. However, as a RL it's
> pretty neat. People should check it out. I think the "vignette style" RL is
> underdone and there's a lot of cool design space to be explored there.
>
> For those who haven't played it, it's a short (1-2 hr) game with a nice
> story.

Thank you! I am glad you enjoyed it.

> For a 7-day RL, it's pretty impressive. There were a couple of things that
> were starting to bother me by the end of the game (namely hiking all the way
> down to the bottom of the dungeon every time I lost a character).

Yes. I also found that increasingly frustrating while play testing.

> The best
> part was that the villiage was pretty alive with NPCs, which added to the
> story. It's the only ASCII-based RL I've ever been able to play in ASCII
> mode. Most ASCII games have a ridiculously high learning curve ("Gee, I
> wonder what character X represents, better give it a (l)ook"), but this one
> had just the right number of symbols. So that's a pretty good endorsement.
>
> I'm thinking that my own RL should explore the "vignette style". It will be
> kind of like Yoda Stories where you can generate a mission, beat it in two
> hours, and go on with your life - characters carrying over between games. In
> my opinion, this beats the hell out of the "Get to level 10,000 of the
> dungeon and finally destroy the Evil Sponge Overlord of Doooooooom (DUN DUN
> DUN)" game model.

I do like the potential of Vignette styles. I wish you luck in trying
to create a RL that auto-generates the vignettes, however. The
Alive-With-NPCs village is all hand written text which can't be reused
for additional vignettes without very swiftly becoming stale.

I think there is some hope for some roguelike enthusiast who is more a
writer than a programmer building an episodic chain of vignettes for a
larger, play-through-once, roguelike.
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 6:22:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

> I think there is some hope for some roguelike enthusiast who is more a
> writer than a programmer building an episodic chain of vignettes for a
> larger, play-through-once, roguelike.

I agree that this is how it would have to work. People have a hard enough
time telling compelling stories. You're not going to be able to program the
RNG to do it very well.

--
Blog:
Shedletsky's Bits: A Random Walk Through Manifold Space
http://www.stanford.edu/~jjshed/blog
Related resources
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 3:10:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

Shedletsky wrote:
>>I think there is some hope for some roguelike enthusiast who is more a
>>writer than a programmer building an episodic chain of vignettes for a
>>larger, play-through-once, roguelike.
>
> I agree that this is how it would have to work. People have a hard enough
> time telling compelling stories. You're not going to be able to program the
> RNG to do it very well.

You should check out Carceri when it will be available ;-). A game of
this type could be done without touching any code (or a few Lua scripts
only).

--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"From what I've read, a lot of people believe that GenRogue
exists and will be released some day" -- Arxenia Xentrophore
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 3:47:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

>> I agree that this is how it would have to work. People have a hard
>> enough
>> time telling compelling stories. You're not going to be able to
>> program the
>> RNG to do it very well.
>
> You should check out Carceri when it will be available ;-). A game
> of this type could be done without touching any code (or a few Lua
> scripts only).

:-D
So, you dropped the idea of Carceri being purely data-driven?
And of course writing a game like YOLO is a snap with my mighty
Borndead Engine and some basic knowledge of Python ;-)

reagards,
Filip
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 9:16:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

"Filip Dreger" <fdreger@amiga.pl> wrote in message
news:D evvot$eeb$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
>>> I agree that this is how it would have to work. People have a hard
>>> enough
>>> time telling compelling stories. You're not going to be able to
>>> program the
>>> RNG to do it very well.
>>
>> You should check out Carceri when it will be available ;-). A game of
>> this type could be done without touching any code (or a few Lua
>> scripts only).
>
> :-D
> So, you dropped the idea of Carceri being purely data-driven?
> And of course writing a game like YOLO is a snap with my mighty
> Borndead Engine and some basic knowledge of Python ;-)
>

Ah, the dicksize comparisons begin...yet where can we get this
monstrous rogulike members?

...silence...

--
Glen
L:p yt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 9:16:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

U¿ytkownik "Glen Wheeler" <gew75@uow.edu.au> napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
news:431407d9$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Ah, the dicksize comparisons begin...yet where can we get this
> monstrous rogulike members?

I've shown mine to Kornel once, by email. And you are just jealous :-D

regards,
Filip 'wand of wonder' Dreger
!