Losing without dying

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A few more ideas on how to make the player lose a battle but not the war:

Afraid
If the player receives a very devastating hit from a monster (say,
over 50% of his maxhp), make him 'afraid', like the afraid state
in Angband, which makes the PC unable to melee. This should force
the player to retreat.

Panic
Go a step further -- instead of making him just 'afraid', make him
panic -- the player loses control over his character, which runs
away until he's at safe distance, automatically and instinctively
dodging all hits. The player regains control at the safe distance,
nearest stairs or even the entrance to the dungeon.
The pc might refuse to come back until next levelup.

Panic and drop
As before, but the player character also drops all/some of his
inventory/equipment either on the spot or along the way. This would
make it similar to death in Diablo.

Bad wound
The PC receives a deadly wound, that reduces his abilities to those
of several experience levels lower character. He remains at the lower
level (including all experience rewards) until he levels up, at which
stage he regains all his experience.

Deadly wound
The PC receives a deadly wound, which doesn't affect his skill or
abilities in any way, but will make him die (or maybe only drain
his stats) if he won't get to town in, say, 3d6x20 turns.

Frog curse
Just when the PC is about to die, it gets saved by his deity.
Unfortunately, the saving involves turning him into a frog, and
the curse can only be undone in the town's temple.

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
) 3 Snap!
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

sheep1 % sheep.prv.pl wrote:
>A few more ideas on how to make the player lose a battle but not the war:
>
>Afraid
> If the player receives a very devastating hit from a monster (say,
> over 50% of his maxhp), make him 'afraid', like the afraid state
> in Angband, which makes the PC unable to melee. This should force
> the player to retreat.

It'll only force the player to retreat if he lacks ranged abilities that
can be used at point-blank without counting as melee. Inability to use
melee attacks won't stop an Earth Conjurer (in Crawl) from putting a
long and very nasty piece of sharpened crystal through his assailant.

>Panic
> Go a step further -- instead of making him just 'afraid', make him
> panic -- the player loses control over his character, which runs
> away until he's at safe distance, automatically and instinctively
> dodging all hits. The player regains control at the safe distance,
> nearest stairs or even the entrance to the dungeon.
> The pc might refuse to come back until next levelup.

Interesting thought. (Requires, at the very least, a multi-dungeon
environment.)

>Panic and drop
> As before, but the player character also drops all/some of his
> inventory/equipment either on the spot or along the way. This would
> make it similar to death in Diablo.

Not sure about this one.

>Bad wound
> The PC receives a deadly wound, that reduces his abilities to those
> of several experience levels lower character. He remains at the lower
> level (including all experience rewards) until he levels up, at which
> stage he regains all his experience.

Thing is, this is likely to get the PC killed; if he gets set upon
before he can reach a level where he can safely fight given his reduced
capabilities, he's probably going to die.

>Deadly wound
> The PC receives a deadly wound, which doesn't affect his skill or
> abilities in any way, but will make him die (or maybe only drain
> his stats) if he won't get to town in, say, 3d6x20 turns.

There's potential here, as long as the player has some reasonable hope
of getting from the Deep Demonic Depths back to Happyville on the
necessary timescale.

>Frog curse
> Just when the PC is about to die, it gets saved by his deity.
> Unfortunately, the saving involves turning him into a frog, and
> the curse can only be undone in the town's temple.

I hope the monsters aren't French ;-)

Inspired by "Temple of Apshai": When you die, there is a chance that you
will be found by one of the following:
* The Mage, who will bring you back to the surface, restore you to
life, and extract his fee, starting with your magic items then your
gold.
* The Warrior, who will bring you back to the surface, get you restored
to life, and extract his fee, starting with your gold and then your
best weapons and armour.
* The Priest, who will bring you back to the surface, restore you to
life, and take a tithe of your gold for the glory of his God.

The Priest and the Mage could also decide to place a geas on you,
requiring you to perform some task before you can continue your main
quest. The Priest might do this regardless, and the Mage would probably
only do it if your treasures were not of sufficient value to satisfy
him.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\_\/_/ meteorites are outta sight but this one's place is in outer space
\ / if you wanna know i'll tell you why it's cause radiation makes you die
\/ -- Zombina and the Skeletones, "Meteorite"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

At 05 Sep 2005 12:42:28 +0100 (BST),
Martin Read wrote:

> sheep1 % sheep.prv.pl wrote:
>>A few more ideas on how to make the player lose a battle but not the war:
>>
>>Afraid
>> If the player receives a very devastating hit from a monster (say,
>> over 50% of his maxhp), make him 'afraid', like the afraid state
>> in Angband, which makes the PC unable to melee. This should force
>> the player to retreat.
> It'll only force the player to retreat if he lacks ranged abilities that
> can be used at point-blank without counting as melee. Inability to use
> melee attacks won't stop an Earth Conjurer (in Crawl) from putting a
> long and very nasty piece of sharpened crystal through his assailant.

You can also limit the spellcasting at point-blank range, if you wish.
I guess the 'afraid' state in Angband was supposed to force you to use
your missiles and magic, not necessarily force you to retreat.

I think limiting your spellcasting when you're engaged in combat is
generally a good idea -- makes mages even more paranoid

>>Panic
>> Go a step further -- instead of making him just 'afraid', make him
>> panic -- the player loses control over his character, which runs
>> away until he's at safe distance, automatically and instinctively
>> dodging all hits. The player regains control at the safe distance,
>> nearest stairs or even the entrance to the dungeon.
>> The pc might refuse to come back until next levelup.
> Interesting thought. (Requires, at the very least, a multi-dungeon
> environment.)

You could make it work in a single-dungeon environ too, provided you'll
make sure that the stairs are always reachable, even when there's some
monster you're afraid of.
The idea is to deliver a message to the player: "This monster is too tough
for you, come back later or get better equipment".

>>Panic and drop
>> As before, but the player character also drops all/some of his
>> inventory/equipment either on the spot or along the way. This would
>> make it similar to death in Diablo.
> Not sure about this one.

Yes, it seems to be very severe punishment.

>>Bad wound
>> The PC receives a deadly wound, that reduces his abilities to those
>> of several experience levels lower character. He remains at the lower
>> level (including all experience rewards) until he levels up, at which
>> stage he regains all his experience.
> Thing is, this is likely to get the PC killed; if he gets set upon
> before he can reach a level where he can safely fight given his reduced
> capabilities, he's probably going to die.

Note that this mechanic would work more than once, and that with his
reduced level, the PC is going to be given bad wound even by an average
monster on that level.
The net effect would be a fast reduction to experience level one...

How about forbiding the player to descend dungeon levels until the
wound is healed?

>>Deadly wound
>> The PC receives a deadly wound, which doesn't affect his skill or
>> abilities in any way, but will make him die (or maybe only drain
>> his stats) if he won't get to town in, say, 3d6x20 turns.
> There's potential here, as long as the player has some reasonable hope
> of getting from the Deep Demonic Depths back to Happyville on the
> necessary timescale.

Or the limit might be different than time -- the number of killed foes,
the number of traversed levels (set initially to current depth), the
number of newly seen squares (a scroll of amnesia would be a kller ),
etc.

>>Frog curse
>> Just when the PC is about to die, it gets saved by his deity.
>> Unfortunately, the saving involves turning him into a frog, and
>> the curse can only be undone in the town's temple.
> I hope the monsters aren't French ;-)

Well, it doesn't have to be a frog. The idea is to make you both harmless
and 'untouchable' for a time.

> Inspired by "Temple of Apshai": When you die, there is a chance that you
> will be found by one of the following:
> * The Mage, who will bring you back to the surface, restore you to
> life, and extract his fee, starting with your magic items then your
> gold.
> * The Warrior, who will bring you back to the surface, get you restored
> to life, and extract his fee, starting with your gold and then your
> best weapons and armour.
> * The Priest, who will bring you back to the surface, restore you to
> life, and take a tithe of your gold for the glory of his God.
> The Priest and the Mage could also decide to place a geas on you,
> requiring you to perform some task before you can continue your main
> quest. The Priest might do this regardless, and the Mage would probably
> only do it if your treasures were not of sufficient value to satisfy
> him.

Well, this is your general punishment for dying. I wanted to achieve
something else -- a defeat without dying (but it still remains as an
option), making you prepare yourself better for that particular fight,
or choose to avoid it.

You know, like "You've won this time, but I'll be back".

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
(*+) 3 Sparkle
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On 05 Sep 2005 12:42:28 +0100 (BST), Martin Read
<mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>sheep1 % sheep.prv.pl wrote:
>>A few more ideas on how to make the player lose a battle but not the war:
>>
>>Afraid
>> If the player receives a very devastating hit from a monster (say,
>> over 50% of his maxhp), make him 'afraid', like the afraid state
>> in Angband, which makes the PC unable to melee. This should force
>> the player to retreat.
>
>It'll only force the player to retreat if he lacks ranged abilities that
>can be used at point-blank without counting as melee. Inability to use
>melee attacks won't stop an Earth Conjurer (in Crawl) from putting a
>long and very nasty piece of sharpened crystal through his assailant.
>

Omega used a more dangerous form of magical fear - it inhibited
spellcasting and ranged attacks as well. It is dangerous, since it results
in the equivalent of an instant kill as monsters manage to surround the
player.

In general, magical fear is merely a hack in most roguelikes. It is only
suitable for games involving parties of characters, as there is the ability
to work around fear instilled in a single character.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development (More info?)

On 05 Sep 2005 10:27:52 GMT, Radomir 'The Sheep' Dopieralski <thesheep@
sheep.prv.pl> wrote:

>Frog curse
> Just when the PC is about to die, it gets saved by his deity.
> Unfortunately, the saving involves turning him into a frog, and
> the curse can only be undone in the town's temple.

This is a creative method of divine intervention. This would be a good
way to have your god save you. Might be good for GREEKIE -- the Greek
Gods were shape-changers fairly often and sometimes transformed mortals.
It wouldn't be a routine thing, though, but a really high level act of
divine favor.

Don't forget that opponents may prefer to capture rather than kill for
various reasons.

--
R. Dan Henry = danhenry@inreach.com