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Ascetic Paladin

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Anonymous
February 25, 2005 3:08:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
- allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk
- counts monk+paladin levels towards unarmed strike and smite evil damage
Sounds straightforward, except I had a hard time picturing the combination --
I usually think of paladin as a heavy-armour fighter, which clashes with the
armourless monk.

The following is one possible 20th level paladin/monk. Does it stack up
reasonably with other 20th level characters (I haven't played at those levels
yet). This is based on the standard array for stats.

Human Monk 10/Paladin 10
Str=12
Int= 8
Wis=16=14+2
Con=10
Dex=14=13+1
Cha=16=15+1
The last point at level 20 doesn't make a direct difference in modifiers; it'd
go somewhere depending on plans for Epic levels, which I'm far from ready to
think about.

Skill points per level: 4 as monk (*4 at first level), 2 as paladin (+1 human
cancels -1 int)
Diplomacy +25 = 23 ranks +2 synergy (Sense Motive)
Sense Motive 23 ranks
Spot 13 ranks
Tumble 13 ranks

BAB +17/+12/+7/+2 Flurry +17/+17/+12/+7/+2 unarmed damage 2D10
AC (unequipped) 17 = 10 +2(dex) +3(monk Wis bonus) +2(monk level)
Speed 60
Fort +17=+7(monk)+7(paladin)+3(divine grace)
Ref +13=+7+3+3
Will +13=+7+3+3 (+2 still mind vs enchantment)(immune to fear)

Stunning fist, combat reflexes, improved evasion, still mind, ki strike
(magic, lawful), slow fall 50 feet, purity of body, improved disarm, wholeness
of body (heal self 20hp/day), aura of good (level 10), detect evil, smite evil
3/day +3hit/+20dmg, divine grace, lay on hands 30 hp/day, aura of courage,
divine health, Turn undead 6/day as cleric 7, special mount, remove disease
2/wk.

Equipment value 760,000:
I'd appreciate advice here. I imagine high priority would be AC/Dex boosters,
and possibly a Str booster for extra damage.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)

More about : ascetic paladin

Anonymous
February 25, 2005 12:04:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
>Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
>- allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk
>- counts monk+paladin levels towards unarmed strike and smite evil damage
>Sounds straightforward, except I had a hard time picturing the combination --
>I usually think of paladin as a heavy-armour fighter, which clashes with the
>armourless monk.

You might try not making the levels even. I would suggest Monk 11
/ Paladin 9 to start with (for the extra flurry attack), and then
think about Monk 4 / Paladin 16....

Overall, the classes don't seem to coordinate well. They focus on
different stats (Charisma vs Wisdom, even though the Paladin also
needs some Wisdom). IMO, the feat is more interesting than useful.

Donald
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 12:07:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb wrote:
> Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
> - allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk
> - counts monk+paladin levels towards unarmed strike and smite evil
damage
> Sounds straightforward, except I had a hard time picturing the
combination --
> I usually think of paladin as a heavy-armour fighter, which clashes
with the
> armourless monk.

That's a problem with your perception of a paladin, then. If you only
view a paladin as a heavily armed fighter, then it's not for you. If a
paladin is, instead, a holy warrior, then it works.
Related resources
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 3:52:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb) wrote in
news:cvlq9t$9ul$1@knot.queensu.ca:


> Equipment value 760,000:
> I'd appreciate advice here. I imagine high priority would be AC/Dex
> boosters, and possibly a Str booster for extra damage.

Blindfold of True Darkness (9,000gp, A&E)
Amulet of Mighty Fist (DMG)
Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp +6 to abilities, Miniatures
Handbook)
Bracers of Armour (DMG, and check out the side bar in A&E about bracers) or
Bracers of Blinding Strike (MoF)
Ring of Defence (IIRC DrgM 292, I will get back to you on monday withthe
issue)

or
Give up the money and take Vow of Poverty, oh the exalted feats you could
take being a Monk Paladin multi-class.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 6:32:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb wrote:

> At least give me credit for trying, with the character combination I
posted.

Credit granted.

To be honest, I removed the LG from paladin entirely and just made them
a holy warrior that works foor any faith, IMC. It helped remove a lot
of that preconceived notions for me.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 7:27:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Anivair wrote:

> David Alex Lamb wrote:
>
>>Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
>>- allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk
>>- counts monk+paladin levels towards unarmed strike and smite evil
>
> damage
>
>>Sounds straightforward, except I had a hard time picturing the
>
> combination --
>
>>I usually think of paladin as a heavy-armour fighter, which clashes
>
> with the
>
>>armourless monk.
>
>
> That's a problem with your perception of a paladin, then. If you only
> view a paladin as a heavily armed fighter, then it's not for you. If a
> paladin is, instead, a holy warrior, then it works.

A suppose a Paladin *could* be a knight without armor in a savage land...

- Ron ^*^
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 11:44:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <Xns96088D610658BHereIAmNoWherecom@216.196.97.142>,
freakybaby <Here-I-Am@No-Where.com> wrote:
>dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb) wrote in
>news:cvlq9t$9ul$1@knot.queensu.ca:
>> Equipment value 760,000:
>> I'd appreciate advice here. I imagine high priority would be AC/Dex
>> boosters, and possibly a Str booster for extra damage.
>Blindfold of True Darkness (9,000gp, A&E)
>Amulet of Mighty Fist (DMG)
>Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp +6 to abilities, Miniatures
>Handbook)

Does that really mean +6 to ALL abilities? Wow! (don't have Miniatures
handbook)

>Bracers of Armour (DMG, and check out the side bar in A&E about bracers) or
>Bracers of Blinding Strike (MoF)

I don't have MoF if it means Msomething of Faerun. What does it do?

>Ring of Defence (IIRC DrgM 292, I will get back to you on monday withthe
>issue)

>Give up the money and take Vow of Poverty, oh the exalted feats you could
>take being a Monk Paladin multi-class.

I was thinking to try a highly exalted version later.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 11:44:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb wrote:
> freakybaby wrote:
> >
> > Bracers of Blinding Strike (MoF)
>
> I don't have MoF if it means Msomething of Faerun.

M-broken-magic of Faerun. :D 

> What does it do?

102,000 gp: bracers of armor +6 that also grant Improved Initiative
and an extra attack every round at highest BAB, as if using a speed
weapon.

Someone with the Player's Guide to Faerun should see if it was
3.5-revised therein.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 11:44:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1109351272.844493.46620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Anivair <anivair@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>David Alex Lamb wrote:
>> Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
>> - allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk
>> - counts monk+paladin levels towards unarmed strike and smite evil
>damage
>> Sounds straightforward, except I had a hard time picturing the
>combination --
>> I usually think of paladin as a heavy-armour fighter, which clashes
>with the
>> armourless monk.
>
>That's a problem with your perception of a paladin, then. If you only
>view a paladin as a heavily armed fighter, then it's not for you. If a
>paladin is, instead, a holy warrior, then it works.

At least give me credit for trying, with the character combination I posted.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 11:48:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 25 Feb 2005 00:08:29 GMT, dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb)
wrote:

>Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
>- allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk
>- counts monk+paladin levels towards unarmed strike and smite evil damage
>Sounds straightforward, except I had a hard time picturing the combination --
>I usually think of paladin as a heavy-armour fighter, which clashes with the
>armourless monk.

Yu Shu Lien from CTHD, or Wong Fei Hung, or Cho from Bride With White Hair
--> monk/paladin!


--
Hong Ooi | "COUNTERSRTIKE IS AN REAL-TIME
hong@zipworld.com.au | STRATEGY GAME!!!"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- RR
Sydney, Australia |
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 11:48:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1tqt11hfbq3crkdk8ie0pva7so0hcjqem4@4ax.com>,
Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
>Yu Shu Lien from CTHD, or Wong Fei Hung, or Cho from Bride With White Hair
>--> monk/paladin!

I haven't seen most of those; deficient movie education I guess. I saw CTHD
but can't remember who was Yu Shu Lien.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 11:55:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <cvlq9t$9ul$1@knot.queensu.ca>,
David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
>Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
>Human Monk 10/Paladin 10
>Str=12 Int= 8 Wis=16=14+2 Con=10 Dex=14=13+1 Cha=16=15+1

Duh, forgot the ability modifiers:

>Diplomacy +28 = 23 ranks +2 synergy (Sense Motive) +3 (Cha)
>Sense Motive 26 = 23 ranks + 3 (Wis)
>Spot 16 = 13 ranks +3 (Wis)
>Tumble 15 = 13 ranks +2 (Dex)
>
>Fort +17=+7(monk)+7(paladin)+3(divine grace)
>Ref +15=+7+3+3 + 2 (Dex)
>Will +16=+7+3+3 +3 (Wis) (+2 still mind vs enchantment)(immune to fear)
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 3:07:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 25 Feb 2005 20:44:01 GMT, dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb)
wrote:

>>Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp +6 to abilities, Miniatures
>>Handbook)
>Does that really mean +6 to ALL abilities? Wow! (don't have Miniatures
>handbook)

No. And it's not in the Miniatures Handbook, it's in Sword and Fist.

Headband of Perfect Excellence: This pure silk cloth is worn as a headband.
It grants the wearer a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and
Wisdom.
Caster Level: 18th.
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace and
either Commune or Legend Lore
[Remember, this ia 3E item - Owl's Wisdom can probably be substituted
here.]
Market Price: 180,000gp


In 3.5, the price of this item would fall under the "Multiple Different
Abilities" clause on page 282 of the 3.5e DMG. The cost would be:

36,000gp (+6 Strength bonus) +
54,000gp (+6 Dexterity bonus) +
54,000gp (+6 Wisdom bonus)
---------
144,000gp

You COULD up all six attributes for the measly cost of 306,000gp, though.
Other variations would be, for +2 to all attributes, 34,000gp, and +4 to
all attributes, 136,000gp.

Actually, the way it reads, it could be an escalating value. You'd have to
ask your DM. If THAT were the case, it would be:

36,000gp (+6 Strength bonus) +
54,000gp (+6 Dexterity bonus) +
81,000gp (+6 Wisdom bonus)
---------
171,000gp

Which is a lot closer to the 180,000 they're charging for the headband
above. If this is the case, the prices would be 83,125gp to bring up all
six attributes by +2, 332,500gp to bring them all up by +4, and a whopping
748,125gp to bring them all up by +6. As a DM, I think I would probably go
by this latter choice. Otherwise, getting all six stats boosted by +6 is a
no-brainer for pretty much every high-level character. Especially since,
as it is, you *can't* bring up all of your stats.


Joel
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 3:23:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <kbav11tnsgg8c2re55pi5dj0t7kl6j2un7@4ax.com>,
Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
>David Alex Lamb wrote:
>> freakybaby wrote:
>> > Bracers of Blinding Strike (MoF)
>> What does it do?
>
>102,000 gp: bracers of armor +6 that also grant Improved Initiative
>and an extra attack every round at highest BAB, as if using a speed
>weapon.

Cool. Does it stack with Flurry of Blows? I'd guess yes.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 10:05:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb wrote:
> In article <1tqt11hfbq3crkdk8ie0pva7so0hcjqem4@4ax.com>,
> Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Yu Shu Lien from CTHD, or Wong Fei Hung, or Cho from Bride With White Hair
>>--> monk/paladin!
>
>
> I haven't seen most of those; deficient movie education I guess. I saw CTHD
> but can't remember who was Yu Shu Lien.

Okay, Yu Shu Lien was, IIRC, Michelle Yeoh's character. Wong Fei Hung is
a chinese folk hero, recently portrayed (sp?) by Jet Li in the first 3
films in the "Once Upon A Time In China" series. I haven't seen Bride
with White Hair yet.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 12:16:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:cvo2mh$p2q$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> freakybaby <Here-I-Am@No-Where.com> wrote:

>>Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp +6 to abilities, Miniatures
>>Handbook)
>
> Does that really mean +6 to ALL abilities? Wow! (don't have Miniatures
> handbook)

Yes, and the cost is completely broken.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 12:20:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:cvofif$f7t$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> In article <kbav11tnsgg8c2re55pi5dj0t7kl6j2un7@4ax.com>,
> Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
>>David Alex Lamb wrote:
>>> freakybaby wrote:
>>> > Bracers of Blinding Strike (MoF)
>>> What does it do?
>>
>>102,000 gp: bracers of armor +6 that also grant Improved Initiative
>>and an extra attack every round at highest BAB, as if using a speed
>>weapon.
>
> Cool. Does it stack with Flurry of Blows? I'd guess yes.

Yes, but not with haste. To be honest, I do not think the cost is broken on
that one. It breaks it down to 36K for the bracers of armor, plus 64K for
the Speed weapon enhancement (it is a +4 enhancement, so 4 x 4 x 2K = 32K,
doubled to 64K for adding it on), plus 2K for the Improved Initiative.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 6:11:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In news:cvlq9t$9ul$1@knot.queensu.ca,
David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> typed:
> Human Monk 10/Paladin 10

Monk 11: Greater Flurry (additional attack)
Monk 12: Abundant step (Dimension door)
Monk 13: Diamond soul (SR 10+monk level...)

Think about those, personally I like the SR and Greater flurry is kind of a
no brainer in a monk build. You'd lose 2nd level paladin spells and one
Smite and Cure disease use.

--
T. Koivula
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 9:12:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <cvpsh8$c37$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>,
T. Koivula <plistat@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In news:cvlq9t$9ul$1@knot.queensu.ca,
>David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> typed:
>> Human Monk 10/Paladin 10
>
>Monk 11: Greater Flurry (additional attack)
>Monk 12: Abundant step (Dimension door)
>Monk 13: Diamond soul (SR 10+monk level...)
>
>Think about those, personally I like the SR and Greater flurry is kind of a
>no brainer in a monk build. You'd lose 2nd level paladin spells and one
>Smite and Cure disease use.

After someone suggested Monk 11/Pal 9 I looked at Greater Flurry and decided
that was definitely worth it. Abundant Step is tempting, and Diamond Soul
very tempting. As you said, it takes some thought. Another issue is BAB;
there is no loss going from 10/10 to 12/8, but 13/7 loses 1. Also 12th gets
2d6 damage instead of 1D10, which is also nice.

The trouble with picking a Monk/Paladin tradeoff is that a monk gets tempting
benefits at most levels, while the Paladin gets several levels with very
little going on.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 10:07:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <cvlq9t$9ul$1@knot.queensu.ca>,
David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
>Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
>- allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk

If the split contains at least 5 Paladin levels, which mine very likely will,
the monk/paladin would get a special mount. It seems to me that at 20th
level, with at most 10 levels of Paladin with which to beef it up (and likely
only 8, given the 12/8 split someone suggested), the mount is very weak in any
encounters the character is likely to have. Am I wrong?

If it can't serve as a second attacker, about all I can see the character
could do is (a) ride it for at most 2*Pal hours per day, (b) use its
vanishment back to the celestial realms as a good way to store valuables.

I think I must be just unimaginative here. Any other suggestions for how to
use it best?
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 10:37:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <Xns96088D610658BHereIAmNoWherecom@216.196.97.142>,
freakybaby <Here-I-Am@No-Where.com> wrote:
>Ring of Defence (IIRC DrgM 292, I will get back to you on monday withthe
>issue)

It turns out I have a 3 year gap in my Dragons, which 292 is in the middle
of. So I'd appreciate a summary if possible.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 12:07:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In news:cvqe5g$2ui$1@knot.queensu.ca,
David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> typed:
> In article <cvpsh8$c37$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>,
> T. Koivula <plistat@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Monk 11: Greater Flurry (additional attack)
>> Monk 12: Abundant step (Dimension door)
>> Monk 13: Diamond soul (SR 10+monk level...)
> After someone suggested Monk 11/Pal 9 I looked at Greater Flurry and
> decided that was definitely worth it. Abundant Step is tempting, and
> Diamond Soul very tempting. As you said, it takes some thought.
> Another issue is BAB; there is no loss going from 10/10 to 12/8, but
> 13/7 loses 1. Also 12th gets 2d6 damage instead of 1D10, which is
> also nice.


Monk 12 also gives you speed upgrade (+30ft->+40ft) and slow fall increase
50ft->60ft. Monk13/Paladin7 has BAB +16, no? That's enough for max iterative
attacks. IMO SR 23 is worth -1 to BAB.

With Monk it's probably best to either use Fighter 4 for the feats and +16
BAB or be very strict in what you want and don't want from the Monk
levels... Like you said, just about all of them give goodies.

Your holy monk is a nice concept BTW. :) 

--
T. Koivula
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 12:07:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <cvqhdg$lvu$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>,
T. Koivula <plistat@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Your holy monk is a nice concept BTW. :) 

Thanks. Most of it seems straigtforward once you read the Ascetic Knight
feat.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 12:07:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"T. Koivula" <plistat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cvqhdg$lvu$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> In news:cvqe5g$2ui$1@knot.queensu.ca,
>
> Monk 12 also gives you speed upgrade (+30ft->+40ft) and slow fall increase
> 50ft->60ft. Monk13/Paladin7 has BAB +16, no? That's enough for max
iterative
> attacks. IMO SR 23 is worth -1 to BAB.
>

Is SR 23 worth anything to a 20th level character? Especially one with saves
like a M/P is going to have?
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 12:17:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> Joel Fischoff (Agent) wrote:
> >
> > Especially since, as it is, you *can't* bring up all of
> > your stats.
>
> Why is that, pray tell?

I believe he is referring to the fact that the Amulet of Health and
the Periapt of Wisdom take up the same slot.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 1:03:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 25 Feb 2005 20:38:34 GMT, dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb)
wrote:

>In article <1tqt11hfbq3crkdk8ie0pva7so0hcjqem4@4ax.com>,
>Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
>>Yu Shu Lien from CTHD, or Wong Fei Hung, or Cho from Bride With White Hair
>>--> monk/paladin!
>
>I haven't seen most of those; deficient movie education I guess. I saw CTHD
>but can't remember who was Yu Shu Lien.

And you want to play a monk??/!1 For shame!

Ooh, add another one to the list: either Flying Snow or Broken Sword from
Hero, depending on your point of view.


--
Hong Ooi | "COUNTERSRTIKE IS AN REAL-TIME
hong@zipworld.com.au | STRATEGY GAME!!!"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- RR
Sydney, Australia |
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 1:24:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In news:cvqhck$7d5$1@knot.queensu.ca,
David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> typed:
> If the split contains at least 5 Paladin levels, which mine very
> likely will, the monk/paladin would get a special mount. It seems to
> me that at 20th level, with at most 10 levels of Paladin with which
> to beef it up (and likely only 8, given the 12/8 split someone
> suggested), the mount is very weak in any encounters the character is
> likely to have. Am I wrong?

And you can run faster than it can... Heck, you'll run faster than a hawk
flies. :) 

--
T. Koivula
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 1:57:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 25 Feb 2005 00:08:29 GMT, dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb)
wrote:

>Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
>- allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk
>- counts monk+paladin levels towards unarmed strike and smite evil damage
>Sounds straightforward, except I had a hard time picturing the combination --
>I usually think of paladin as a heavy-armour fighter, which clashes with the
>armourless monk.

So, you'd have a problem with my Paladin who wore a broad brimmed hat
and a long black coat as he hunted evil witches and demons?
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 2:01:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 25 Feb 2005 15:32:07 -0800, "Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>David Alex Lamb wrote:
>
>> At least give me credit for trying, with the character combination I
>posted.
>
>Credit granted.
>
>To be honest, I removed the LG from paladin entirely and just made them
>a holy warrior that works foor any faith, IMC. It helped remove a lot
>of that preconceived notions for me.

Does having a healing touch really fit the concept of a Chaotic Evil
champion? It was my preference to leave paladins as LG and give other
alignments different kinds of champions with different powers.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 2:24:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <sq2021t7ddt75cvd149cnafmrcnc4ef0pd@4ax.com>,
Joel Fischoff (Agent) <petrukio@rcn.com> wrote:
>Headband of Perfect Excellence: This pure silk cloth is worn as a headband.
>It grants the wearer a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and
>Wisdom.
>In 3.5, the price of this item would fall under the "Multiple Different
>Abilities" clause on page 282 of the 3.5e DMG. The cost would be:
>
> 36,000gp (+6 Strength bonus) +
> 54,000gp (+6 Dexterity bonus) +
> 54,000gp (+6 Wisdom bonus)
>---------
>144,000gp
>
>You COULD up all six attributes for the measly cost of 306,000gp, though.
>Other variations would be, for +2 to all attributes, 34,000gp, and +4 to
>all attributes, 136,000gp.
>
>Actually, the way it reads, it could be an escalating value. You'd have to
>ask your DM. If THAT were the case, it would be:
>
> 36,000gp (+6 Strength bonus) +
> 54,000gp (+6 Dexterity bonus) +
> 81,000gp (+6 Wisdom bonus)
>---------
>171,000gp

With this pricing, here's the version with 760,000gp of equipment. It would
be nice to use the 144,000 version for an extra 27,000 to spend elsewhere.

Amulet of Mighty Fist +5 (150,000gp, DMG) enhancement +5 unarmed atk+dmg
Belt, Monk's (13,000, DMG) AC and unarmed dmg as monk 5 lvls higher
Blindfold of True Darkness (9,000gp, A&E) blindsight 60', no vision
Boots of Striding and Springing (5,500gp, DMG) +10 move, +5 competence to Jump
Bracers of Blinding Strike (MoF) 102,000gp bracers of armour +6, improved
initiative, extra attack each round at highest BAB
Cloak of Resistance +5 (55,000gp, DMG) resistance bonus to all saves
Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp refigured to 171,000) +6 to Str,
Dex, Wis, Miniatures Handbook
Ring of Freedom of Movement (40,000gp, DMG)
Ring of Protection +5 (50,000gp, DMG) deflection bonus to AC
Scarab of Protection (38,000) SR 20
Quarterstaff, +4 disruption, ki focus, ghost touch (total +8, 128,600gp)

This leaves 27,900 for minor items and goods. A +5 Manual or Tome would cost
25,500 leaving 2,400. Since Wisdom helps AC, atk, and spells, I'd go with a
tome of understanding Wis +5.

possibly instead of Ring of Freedom of Movement:
Ring of Defence (maybe DrgM 292)

This equipment gives the following results:
Str=16=10+6(bracers) +3
Int= 8 -1 (unchanged)
Wis=28=14+3+6(bracers)+5(tome) +9
Con=12 +1 (unchanged)
Dex=20=13+1+6(bracers) +5
Cha=16=15+1 +3 (unchanged)

Skill points per level: 4 as monk (*4 at first level), 2 as paladin (+1 human
cancels -1 int)
Diplomacy +28 = 23 ranks +2 synergy (Sense Motive) +3 (Cha)
Sense Motive +32 = 23 ranks + 9 (Wis)
Spot +24 = 15 ranks +9 (Wis)
Tumble +20 = 15 ranks +5 (Dex)
Jump +8 = +3(Str) +5 (boots)

BAB +17/+12/+7/+2, +9 (Wis), +5(amulet)+1(focus) unarmed or +4 quarterstaff
Greater flurry +26/+26/+26/+21/+16/+11 (bracers give extra strike)
unarmed +32/+32/+32/+27/+22/+17 dmg 2D10+3(Str)+5(amulet)
quarterstaff +30/+30/+30/+25/+20/+15 dmg 1D6+3(str)+4(staff)
AC 37 = 10 +5(dex) +9(wis) +2(monk level) +6 (bracers) +5 (ring)
HP = 121.5=8+11*4.5+8*5.5 + 20 (Con)
Speed 80=70+10(boots)
SR 20 (Scarab)
Fort +23=+8(monk)+6(paladin)+3(divine grace) +1 (Con) +5(cloak)
Ref +23=+8+2+3 + 5 (Dex) +5 (cloak)
Will +27=+8+2+3 +9 (Wis) +5 (cloak) (+2 still mind vs enchant)(immune to fear)

To me this looks good -- but as I said at the start, I'd appreciate a reaction
comparing this with other 20th level characters.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 2:28:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <4220a4b2.14097922@news.telusplanet.net>,
David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>On 25 Feb 2005 00:08:29 GMT, dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb)
>wrote:
>>I usually think of paladin as a heavy-armour fighter, which clashes with the
>>armourless monk.
>
>So, you'd have a problem with my Paladin who wore a broad brimmed hat
>and a long black coat as he hunted evil witches and demons?

I wouldn't have a problem with him -- I just wouldn't have thought of him.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 2:43:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Nikolas Landauer" <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote in message
news:icb2215ibeb53l1nhlaa1ndcv4eoif62vc@4ax.com...
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
>> Joel Fischoff (Agent) wrote:
>> >
>> > Especially since, as it is, you *can't* bring up all of
>> > your stats.
>>
>> Why is that, pray tell?
>
> I believe he is referring to the fact that the Amulet of Health and
> the Periapt of Wisdom take up the same slot.

Why not incorporate their effects into different slotted items?

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 2:48:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:cvqhck$7d5$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> In article <cvlq9t$9ul$1@knot.queensu.ca>,
> David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
>>Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
>>- allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk
>
> If the split contains at least 5 Paladin levels, which mine very likely
> will,
> the monk/paladin would get a special mount. It seems to me that at 20th
> level, with at most 10 levels of Paladin with which to beef it up (and
> likely
> only 8, given the 12/8 split someone suggested), the mount is very weak in
> any
> encounters the character is likely to have. Am I wrong?
>
> If it can't serve as a second attacker, about all I can see the character
> could do is (a) ride it for at most 2*Pal hours per day, (b) use its
> vanishment back to the celestial realms as a good way to store valuables.
>
> I think I must be just unimaginative here. Any other suggestions for how
> to
> use it best?

If there is not already (in Dragon, perhaps?), there should be a feat to
allow those Monk levels to stack for the purposes of calculating mount
abilities.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 3:32:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:

>Amulet of Mighty Fist +5 (150,000gp, DMG) enhancement +5 unarmed atk+dmg
>Scarab of Protection (38,000) SR 20

These are both in the "Necklace" slot.


>Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp refigured to 171,000) +6 to Str,
> Dex, Wis, Miniatures Handbook
>Blindfold of True Darkness (9,000gp, A&E) blindsight 60', no vision

I believe these both take up the "Hat" slot.


Donald
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 3:32:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:4220a54f.14254018@news.telusplanet.net...
> On 25 Feb 2005 15:32:07 -0800, "Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>David Alex Lamb wrote:
>>
>>> At least give me credit for trying, with the character combination I
>>posted.
>>
>>Credit granted.
>>
>>To be honest, I removed the LG from paladin entirely and just made them
>>a holy warrior that works foor any faith, IMC. It helped remove a lot
>>of that preconceived notions for me.
>
> Does having a healing touch really fit the concept of a Chaotic Evil
> champion? It was my preference to leave paladins as LG and give other
> alignments different kinds of champions with different powers.

I use the Holy Warrior from Green Ronin's _Book of the Righteous_ and the
Unholy Warrior from _The Unholy Warrior's Handbook_. They give the
"Paladin" two domains, which determine their abilities. You can make some
very interesting Paladin variants, some of which would synergize very nicely
with Monk abilities. The standard PHB Paladin has the Champion and Guardian
domains. For example, if you replaced the Champion domain with the Life
Domain, you would lose Detect Evil and Smite Evil, but you would gain Hand
of Life (helps penetrate undead DR, plus gives a positive energy effect on a
weapon one round per day) and Abundant Life (gain a number of "Positive
Levels" equal to your Charisma Bonus, which can be used to counter negative
levels and ability drains). Both domains have Lay On Hands, so that would
not change.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 3:35:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Marshall <destroyr@.BRAKES.iquest.net> wrote:
>Is SR 23 worth anything to a 20th level character? Especially one with saves
>like a M/P is going to have?

Depends on how many subject-to-SR-but-no-save spells he's gonna be
exposed to (Magic Missile? Power Word: Kill?). Besides, even a
20th level caster fails to get through SR 23 on a 1-2...

Donald
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 3:35:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Donald Tsang" <tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:cvr4kd$rp1$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> Marshall <destroyr@.BRAKES.iquest.net> wrote:
>>Is SR 23 worth anything to a 20th level character? Especially one with
>>saves
>>like a M/P is going to have?
>
> Depends on how many subject-to-SR-but-no-save spells he's gonna be
> exposed to (Magic Missile? Power Word: Kill?). Besides, even a
> 20th level caster fails to get through SR 23 on a 1-2...

That is, if he does not have Spell Penetration...

Still, it will keep the mook Wizards at bay.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 4:25:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

There were 2 feats left unspecified. I think I'd pick Extra Smiting (+2/day,
total 4/day), and Divine Vigor, both from Complete Warrior.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 4:28:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <cvr4e8$ro4$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
Donald Tsang <tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
>
>>Amulet of Mighty Fist +5 (150,000gp, DMG) enhancement +5 unarmed atk+dmg
>>Scarab of Protection (38,000) SR 20
>
>These are both in the "Necklace" slot.

Rats. The Scarab picture didn't look like it was on a necklace, but OTOH the
text compares it to a medallion. I'd give up the scarab.


>>Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp refigured to 171,000) +6 to Str,
>> Dex, Wis, Miniatures Handbook
>>Blindfold of True Darkness (9,000gp, A&E) blindsight 60', no vision
>
>I believe these both take up the "Hat" slot.

Isn't there a separate slot for goggles/eyepieces? Anyway, if necessary I'd
give up the blindfold.

With the money freed up, maybe I should look into barding for the mount.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 4:28:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb wrote:
> Donald Tsang wrote:
> > David Alex Lamb wrote:
> > >
> > > Amulet of Mighty Fist +5 (150,000gp, DMG) enhancement +5
> > > unarmed atk+dmg
> > > Scarab of Protection (38,000) SR 20
> >
> > These are both in the "Necklace" slot.
>
> Rats. The Scarab picture didn't look like it was on a
> necklace, but OTOH the text compares it to a medallion.
> I'd give up the scarab.

Don't bother going by pictures. Use the actual slot list on DMG3.5
214, or under "Magic Items on the Body" in the Magic Items SRD file (
http://www.geocities.com/sovelior/srd/magicItems.html on Sovelior's
SRD).

"One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around
the neck"

> > > Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp refigured to
> > > 171,000) +6 to Str, Dex, Wis, Miniatures Handbook
> > > Blindfold of True Darkness (9,000gp, A&E) blindsight
> > > 60', no vision
> >
> > I believe these both take up the "Hat" slot.
>
> Isn't there a separate slot for goggles/eyepieces? Anyway,
> if necessary I'd give up the blindfold.

There is.

"One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head"
"One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes"

I'd put the Blindfold under goggles/eyepieces, myself, unless it is
mentioned separately in the A&EG. (Does the A&EG have an updated
version of the "slots" listing?) That said, those look woefully
underpriced, to me. For example, since they allow one to see
invisible, comparing them to a use-activated item that granted /see
invisible/ continuously might be useful, and that would be 15,000
(2nd-level spell x CL 3 x 2,000 use-activated price x 1.5 duration
modifier) gp. Blindsight is better, because it negates gaze attacks,
and miss chances due to blur and displacement. Since it's not a
permanent item, and can be removed, the negatives (no color sight,
can't read) are irrelevant.

As an example, the Lantern of Revealing is a slotless /invisibility
purge/ item, use-activated, that costs 30,000 gp. That said, /inv.
purge/ and /see invis./ are pretty different effects.

Another, possibly closer example: the Goggles of Night (use-activated
darkvision, no penalties) costs 12,000 gp. Darkvision is
significantly weaker than blindsight.

I'm intentionally not comparing to items with /see invisibilty/ as
only one of a host of powers (Rod of Alertness), or more powerful
items (Gem of Seeing).

For an abstract comparison, look at the grimlock: its abilities are
blindsight (auditory, so deafening one will blind it), a +4 natural
armor bonus, and moderate stat boni (+4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con)... And
it has a +2 LA on top of 2 mediocre racial Hit Dice.

After discussion with one of my players, in fact the one who is most
likely to disagree with me in the PCs' favor, she agrees that it's
underpriced. Her gut reaction is that she'd pay at least 16,000 gp
for it, and probably pay up to 19-20,000 gp if it was appropriate for
her character.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 5:49:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> > Malachias Invictus wrote:
> > > Joel Fischoff (Agent) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Especially since, as it is, you *can't* bring up all of
> > > > your stats.
> > >
> > > Why is that, pray tell?
> >
> > I believe he is referring to the fact that the Amulet of
> > Health and the Periapt of Wisdom take up the same slot.
>
> Why not incorporate their effects into different slotted
> items?

Hey, I knew why you asked. :D  I was just saying that that was what
he was probably referring to, given Peter Knutsen's usual diatribe on
the subject. (That said, I actually kinda agree with Peter that the
'standard' would have evolved into a different item for one of those.)

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 9:23:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Hong Ooi wrote:
>
> Ooh, add another one to the list: either Flying Snow or Broken Sword from
> Hero, depending on your point of view.

Dude, Broken Sword is absolutely the closest thing to a paladin "Hero" has to
offer.

Flying Snow is a huge jerk, and in D&D terms her overwhelming revenge motivation
prevents her from being Good *and* leads her to oppose the best Lawful social
system around. I think she's pretty firmly neutral.

I would peg Moon as a low-level fighter/monk with two-weapon fighting unless you
think she was just flurrying with those long curved knives as some kind of
special monk weapon.

Nameless and Sky are both fighter/monks, heavy on the fighter.

As you know, Bob^WHong, either your martial artist or a class-based defense
bonus is a better explanation for "Hero" and other wuxia styleeeee - it would be
interesting to see a d20 game where PC classes granted defense bonuses better
than that available through armour, so you only ever see armour on NPCs.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
understand?
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigec...
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatel...

I'm standing at the altar as they play the wedding march
I'm in a black tuxedo with my collar full of starch
She looks as lovely as she's ever gonna get
I wake up from this nightmare in a pool of sweat
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 1:38:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:

> Does having a healing touch really fit the concept of a Chaotic Evil
> champion? It was my preference to leave paladins as LG and give
other
> alignments different kinds of champions with different powers.

It's more than that, it's actually a full rewrite with healing replaced
with either healing or harming, much like the spontaneous casting
ability of clerics. And the mount was replaced with the more ambiguous
"companion" style ability that can be a mount or can be somehting more
appropriate for your faith. Cure or cause disease is the same as
healing. Basically I just did what I could to make it more versatile
so that it was worth somehting for faiths that aren't LG or whose
worshipers don't fit that mold well. So far so good, and I still have
ye olde paladins. I just also have other kinds of holy warriors.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 2:57:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Malachias Invictus" <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f8WdnR9Sl5zg57zfRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>
> "Donald Tsang" <tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> news:cvr4kd$rp1$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> > Marshall <destroyr@.BRAKES.iquest.net> wrote:
> >>Is SR 23 worth anything to a 20th level character? Especially one with
> >>saves
> >>like a M/P is going to have?
> >
> > Depends on how many subject-to-SR-but-no-save spells he's gonna be
> > exposed to (Magic Missile? Power Word: Kill?). Besides, even a
> > 20th level caster fails to get through SR 23 on a 1-2...
>
> That is, if he does not have Spell Penetration...
>
> Still, it will keep the mook Wizards at bay.
>

And the 1/2 casters...
So is it worth 8th level PAL? Which, looking at it, comes down to second
level spells and a better mount...
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 3:10:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:cvr0g7$sfa$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> Cloak of Resistance +5 (55,000gp, DMG) resistance bonus to all saves

Shouldnt that be 25k?

>
> possibly instead of Ring of Freedom of Movement:
> Ring of Defence (maybe DrgM 292)
>

Ring of Defense is the 2e Ring of Protection.
ie + to both AC and saves. IIRC it was priced as just adding the two effects
together.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 3:14:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:4220a4b2.14097922@news.telusplanet.net...
> On 25 Feb 2005 00:08:29 GMT, dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb)
> wrote:
>
> >Complete Adventurer has an Ascetic Knight feat which
> >- allows the PC to freely multiclass between paladin and monk
> >- counts monk+paladin levels towards unarmed strike and smite evil damage
> >Sounds straightforward, except I had a hard time picturing the
combination --
> >I usually think of paladin as a heavy-armour fighter, which clashes with
the
> >armourless monk.
>
> So, you'd have a problem with my Paladin who wore a broad brimmed hat
> and a long black coat as he hunted evil witches and demons?
>

and vampires and mad scientists?
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 6:29:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <Xns96088D610658BHereIAmNoWherecom@216.196.97.142>,
freakybaby <Here-I-Am@No-Where.com> wrote:
>or
>Give up the money and take Vow of Poverty, oh the exalted feats you could
>take being a Monk Paladin multi-class.
>

An alternative is Vow of Poverty. To do it at first level requires using the
unspecified 2 feats as Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty. The accumulated results
of VoP at 20th level are: AC +10, 11 bonus exalted feats, endure elements,
exalted strike +5 (to atk and dmg), sustenance (need not eat), AC deflection
bonus +3, resistance +3 on saves, stat bonuses +8/+6/+4/+2, natural armor +2,
mind shield (vs detect lies, discern thoughts), DR 10/evil, greater sustenance
(need not breathe), energy resistance 15 (acid, cold, elec, fire, sonic),
freedom of movement, regeneration 1hp/hr, true seeing. Intuitive Attack was
an exalted feat, so we pick 10 exalted feats and 1 normal one.

Total AC bonuses are 15=10+3+2, the first 10 of which don't affect touch
attacks. The DR 10/evil is nice but tempered by the fact that a monk/paladin
will face a lot of evil creatures. I think I'd allocate the stat boosts to
Con/Wis/Cha/Dex. The Con bonus gives more hit points (+1 from 7 on, +1 more
from 11 on, +1 from 15 on, and +1 from 19 on, total 32=14+10+6+2).

Celestial Mount (mount gains Celestial template, smites evil 1/day, DR, SR)
Exalted Smite (smite evil considered good-aligned)
Exalted SR (+4 vs evil)
Exalted Turning (3d6 dmg to turned undead)
Hands of a Healer (as if cha +2 higher)
Holy Radiance (1d4 dmg per round to undead within 10 ft)
Nimbus of Light (+2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy and Sense Motive)
Sanctify Ki Strike (+1 dmg vs evil, 1d4 vs evil outsiders, unarmed strikes are
good-aligned)
Vow of Chastity (+4 perfection bonus vs charm, phantasm)
Vow of Obedience (+4 perfection bonus vs compulsion spells and effects)

Gift of Grace (share Cha bonus with friends for saves) was possible but seemed
the lowest priority.

Gift of Faith is redundant with the immunity to fear.
Holy Ki Strike (+2d6 to evil) requires Ki Strike (Holy) which isn't on the
Monk charts. Perhaps they meant Ki strike (lawful)?
Resounding Blow requires Intimidate 7 ranks. Quell the Profane requires
Resounding Blow.
Vow of Abstinence gives +4 Fort vs poisons, redundant with poison immunity.
Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace would require a different sort of game
than I'm used to; they impose "no killing (monstrous) humanoids" on the
whole party.
Vow of Purity would require 1hr purification after each contact with undead.
Plus abstention from meat. Plus it's redundant with disease immunity.

Str=10 0
Int= 8 -1
Wis=22=14+2+6 +6
Con=20=12+8 +5
Dex=16=13+1+2 +3
Cha=20=15+1+4 +5
1 point unallocated

Skill points per level: 4 as monk (*4 at first level), 2 as paladin (+1 human
cancels -1 int)
Diplomacy +32 = 23 ranks +2 synergy (Sense Motive) +5 (Cha) +2 (nimbus)
Sense Motive +31 = 23 ranks + 6 (Wis) +2 (nimbus)
Spot +21 = 15 ranks +6 (Wis)
Tumble +18 = 15 ranks +3 (Dex)

BAB +17/+12/+7/+2, +6 (Wis)
Greater flurry +23/+23/+23/+18/+15/+8 unarmed damage 2D10/good, pluses vs evil
AC (unequipped) 36 = 10 +3(dex) +6(monk Wis bonus) +2(monk level) +15(poverty)
HP = 153.5=8+11*4.5+8*5.5 + 20 (Con) + 32(poverty)
Speed 70 DR 10/evil
Fort +18=+8(monk)+6(paladin)+3(divine grace) +1 (Con)
Ref +15=+8+2+3 + 2 (Dex)
Will +16=+8+2+3 +3 (Wis) (+2 still mind vs enchantment)(immune to fear)

IMHO this winds up comparable to, but a bit behind, the fully equipped
version: a little behind on attacks (-3), -1 on AC, but +32 on HP and with
several special benefits to attacks against evil creatures. Plus can't equip
the mount except insofar as the Celestial templatea helps it.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 12:39:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Malachias Invictus" <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:zaidndtqJLIqLr3fRVn-sA@comcast.com:

>
> "Joel Fischoff (Agent)" <petrukio@rcn.com> wrote in message
> news:sq2021t7ddt75cvd149cnafmrcnc4ef0pd@4ax.com...
>> On 25 Feb 2005 20:44:01 GMT, dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex
>> Lamb) wrote:
>>
>>>>Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp +6 to abilities,
>>>>Miniatures Handbook)
>>>Does that really mean +6 to ALL abilities? Wow! (don't have
>>>Miniatures handbook)
>>
>> No. And it's not in the Miniatures Handbook, it's in Sword and Fist.
>
> He was referring to the Belt of Magnificence, and mistyped. It
> provides a +2 (for 25K), +4 (for 100K), or +6 (for 200K) enhancement
> bonus to *all* stats.


Ahhhhh yes thank you for the correction.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 12:43:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu (Donald Tsang) wrote in
news:cvr4e8$ro4$1@agate.berkeley.edu:

> David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
>
>>Amulet of Mighty Fist +5 (150,000gp, DMG) enhancement +5 unarmed
>>atk+dmg Scarab of Protection (38,000) SR 20
>
> These are both in the "Necklace" slot.
>
>
>>Headband of Perfect Excellence (200,000gp refigured to 171,000) +6 to
>>Str,
>> Dex, Wis, Miniatures Handbook
>>Blindfold of True Darkness (9,000gp, A&E) blindsight 60', no vision
>
> I believe these both take up the "Hat" slot.

Blindfold is the goggle slot
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 12:49:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb) wrote in
news:cvu376$duv$1@knot.queensu.ca:

> In article <Xns96088D610658BHereIAmNoWherecom@216.196.97.142>,
> freakybaby <Here-I-Am@No-Where.com> wrote:
>>or
>>Give up the money and take Vow of Poverty, oh the exalted feats you
>>could take being a Monk Paladin multi-class.
>>
>
> An alternative is Vow of Poverty. To do it at first level requires
> using the unspecified 2 feats as Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty. The
> accumulated results of VoP at 20th level are: AC +10, 11 bonus exalted
> feats, endure elements, exalted strike +5 (to atk and dmg), sustenance
> (need not eat), AC deflection bonus +3, resistance +3 on saves, stat
> bonuses +8/+6/+4/+2, natural armor +2, mind shield (vs detect lies,
> discern thoughts), DR 10/evil, greater sustenance (need not breathe),
> energy resistance 15 (acid, cold, elec, fire, sonic), freedom of
> movement, regeneration 1hp/hr, true seeing. Intuitive Attack was an
> exalted feat, so we pick 10 exalted feats and 1 normal one.
>
> Total AC bonuses are 15=10+3+2, the first 10 of which don't affect
> touch attacks. The DR 10/evil is nice but tempered by the fact that a
> monk/paladin will face a lot of evil creatures. I think I'd allocate
> the stat boosts to Con/Wis/Cha/Dex. The Con bonus gives more hit
> points (+1 from 7 on, +1 more from 11 on, +1 from 15 on, and +1 from
> 19 on, total 32=14+10+6+2).
>
> Celestial Mount (mount gains Celestial template, smites evil 1/day,
> DR, SR) Exalted Smite (smite evil considered good-aligned)
> Exalted SR (+4 vs evil)
> Exalted Turning (3d6 dmg to turned undead)
> Hands of a Healer (as if cha +2 higher)
> Holy Radiance (1d4 dmg per round to undead within 10 ft)
> Nimbus of Light (+2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy and Sense Motive)
> Sanctify Ki Strike (+1 dmg vs evil, 1d4 vs evil outsiders, unarmed
> strikes are
> good-aligned)
> Vow of Chastity (+4 perfection bonus vs charm, phantasm)
> Vow of Obedience (+4 perfection bonus vs compulsion spells and
> effects)
>
> Gift of Grace (share Cha bonus with friends for saves) was possible
> but seemed the lowest priority.
>
> Gift of Faith is redundant with the immunity to fear.
> Holy Ki Strike (+2d6 to evil) requires Ki Strike (Holy) which isn't on
> the
> Monk charts. Perhaps they meant Ki strike (lawful)?
> Resounding Blow requires Intimidate 7 ranks. Quell the Profane
> requires
> Resounding Blow.
> Vow of Abstinence gives +4 Fort vs poisons, redundant with poison
> immunity. Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace would require a
> different sort of game
> than I'm used to; they impose "no killing (monstrous) humanoids" on
> the whole party.
> Vow of Purity would require 1hr purification after each contact with
> undead.
> Plus abstention from meat. Plus it's redundant with disease
> immunity.

Touch of golden ice would be nice
As well as Fist of the heavens
!