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Archetypal Evil Monsters for Classes

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Anonymous
February 26, 2005 9:01:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Archetypal Evil Monsters for Classes

I want to represent each class with an evil monster that best fits it.
I've got some possibilies already, but looking to fill out the list and
get alternatives. I also don't want an evil race or monster in more
than one place. Possibly also with a higher base representation
alternative as well

Barbarian: Orc, (Maybe Minotaur for the higher level version)

Bard: Harpy

Cleric: Drow

Druid: Lizardfolk

Fighter: Hobgoblin

Monk: ?

Ranger: Yuan-Ti?

Rogue: Wererat (Maybe goblin, or kobold)

Sorcerer: Kobold

Wizard: Lich (a little high and unspecific for a race), Ogre Mage?
(still a bit high, more sorcer anyway but I still think wizard when I
think Ogre Magi)

- Justisaur
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 1:31:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

It would be hard to narrow it down to one monster type per class without
further criteria. One useful one would be LA. If you want monsters
with no LA, I would go with the following:

Barbarian: Orc, naturally
Fighter: Hobgoblin
Paladin: ???
Ranger: ???
Rogue: Goblin
Monk: Mongrelman (cultural flavor -- they are ascetic)
Bard: ???
Druid: ???
Cleric: ???
Sorcerer: Kobold (for cultural flavor only, no real numbers advantage)
Wizard: ???


If you were to bump up the LA to +3 as a possibility, I'd go with the
following:

Barbarian: Orc
Fighter: Hobgoblin
Paladin: Aasimar
Ranger: Gnoll
Rogue: Tiefling
Monk: Githzerai
Bard: Mongrelman (for you Tom Waits fans out there)
Druid: ???
Cleric: ???
Sorcerer: Kobold (for cultural flavor only, no real numbers advantage)
Wizard: ???

I think clerics and druids work for almost any race with a culture.

Honestly, why are you making this list?

- Ron ^*^


Justisaur wrote:
> Archetypal Evil Monsters for Classes
>
> I want to represent each class with an evil monster that best fits it.
> I've got some possibilies already, but looking to fill out the list and
> get alternatives. I also don't want an evil race or monster in more
> than one place. Possibly also with a higher base representation
> alternative as well
>
> Barbarian: Orc, (Maybe Minotaur for the higher level version)
>
> Bard: Harpy
>
> Cleric: Drow
>
> Druid: Lizardfolk
>
> Fighter: Hobgoblin
>
> Monk: ?
>
> Ranger: Yuan-Ti?
>
> Rogue: Wererat (Maybe goblin, or kobold)
>
> Sorcerer: Kobold
>
> Wizard: Lich (a little high and unspecific for a race), Ogre Mage?
> (still a bit high, more sorcer anyway but I still think wizard when I
> think Ogre Magi)
>
> - Justisaur
>
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 6:34:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat wrote:
> It would be hard to narrow it down to one monster type per class
without
> further criteria. One useful one would be LA. If you want monsters
> with no LA, I would go with the following:
>
> Barbarian: Orc, naturally
> Fighter: Hobgoblin
> Paladin: ???
> Ranger: ???
> Rogue: Goblin
> Monk: Mongrelman (cultural flavor -- they are ascetic)
> Bard: ???
> Druid: ???
> Cleric: ???
> Sorcerer: Kobold (for cultural flavor only, no real numbers
advantage)
> Wizard: ???
>
>
> If you were to bump up the LA to +3 as a possibility, I'd go with the

> following:
>
> Barbarian: Orc
> Fighter: Hobgoblin

The other possibility I was thinking here was Duergar...

> Paladin: Aasimar

I was looking for evil so I left out paladin...

> Ranger: Gnoll

Forgot about the Gnoll, one of my favorites.

> Rogue: Tiefling
> Monk: Githzerai
> Bard: Mongrelman (for you Tom Waits fans out there)
> Druid: ???
> Cleric: ???
> Sorcerer: Kobold (for cultural flavor only, no real numbers
advantage)
> Wizard: ???
>

Wizard seems to be the one I just can't come up with anything for at
the moment.

> I think clerics and druids work for almost any race with a culture.
>
> Honestly, why are you making this list?
>

Playing around with NWN, was thinking of making up one monster for each
CR of the apropriate class advancing from around 1 to 20 or so.

- Justisaur
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 1:08:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
>
> Archetypal Evil Monsters for Classes
>
> Monk: ?

Since most Monks are human, this may be difficult to find one for.

Alternatively, cobra (think martial arts styles?). I know, it's a
stretch... Yuan-Ti might fit better, but they're Chaotic.

> Ranger: Yuan-Ti?

Gnoll.

> Wizard: Lich (a little high and unspecific for a race), Ogre Mage?
> (still a bit high, more sorcer anyway but I still think wizard when I
> think Ogre Magi)

Human. :D  Hey, they're an evil monster.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 1:29:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:

> Wizard seems to be the one I just can't come up with anything for at
> the moment.

Go with goblin rogue and tiefling wizard, then.

- Ron ^*^
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 9:15:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> Archetypal Evil Monsters for Classes

Fighter: Derro, Duergar, *Hobgoblin*, Troll.
Barbarian: Ettin, Hill/Stone Giant, Grimlock, Minotaur, *Ogre*, Orc.
Ranger: *Gnoll*, Sahaugin.

Monk: None, but *Bugbear*, Duergar, or Hobgoblin should work.

Rogue: Bugbear, Doppelganger, Goblin, Svirfneblin, *Wererat*, Tiefling.
Bard: *Gnome Vampire*.

Sorcerer: *Kobold*, Ogre Mage, Rakshasa.
Wizard: *Drow*, Drider, Human Lich.

Cleric: Drow, Sahaugin, *Troglodyte*.
Druid: None, but Lizardfolk, Nymph, or *Human* should work.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 9:41:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in
news:MD0Ud.25362$755.10333@lakeread05:

> Barbarian: Orc, naturally
> Fighter: Hobgoblin
> Paladin: ???

Flumph!
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 10:56:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Justisaur" <justisaur@netscape.net> wrote in news:1109425500.262201.303610
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> Archetypal Evil Monsters for Classes
> Monk: ?

I thought the archtypal monster monks were kuo-toa
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 3:46:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 26 Feb 2005 06:01:00 -0800, "Justisaur" <justisaur@netscape.net>
wrote:

>Archetypal Evil Monsters for Classes
>
>I want to represent each class with an evil monster that best fits it.
>I've got some possibilies already, but looking to fill out the list and
>get alternatives. I also don't want an evil race or monster in more
>than one place. Possibly also with a higher base representation
>alternative as well
<snip>
>
>Monk: ?

How about a rakshasa?

Stephen Posey
slposey@concentric.net
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 11:17:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> So here's what I'm thinking now:
<snip>
> Cleric: Drow (although tussock mentioned troglodytes, which is an
> interesting choice, have to look into them.)

I'm just so bored of Lolth and her whiny bitches. The pustulent
devourer that is Laogzed is just so mindless and destructive in
comparison. If it's in the way; eat it.
Hmm, Bullywugs worship him too, there's another option.

> So it looks like I mostly need a good choice for bards (besides
> vampiric gnomes - which is really weird).

Yes. Yes it is. 8]

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 12:02:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

tussock wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
> >
> > Cleric: Drow (although tussock mentioned troglodytes, which
> > is an interesting choice, have to look into them.)
>
> I'm just so bored of Lolth and her whiny bitches. The
> pustulent devourer that is Laogzed is just so mindless and
> destructive in comparison. If it's in the way; eat it.
> Hmm, Bullywugs worship him too, there's another option.

I thought bullywugs worshiped Wastri (though that may be
Oerth-specific).

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 2:15:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 26 Feb 2005 15:34:12 -0800, "Justisaur" <justisaur@netscape.net>
wrote:

>
>Werebat wrote:
>> It would be hard to narrow it down to one monster type per class
>without
>> further criteria. One useful one would be LA. If you want monsters
>> with no LA, I would go with the following:
>>
>> Barbarian: Orc, naturally
>> Fighter: Hobgoblin
>> Paladin: ???
>> Ranger: ???
>> Rogue: Goblin
>> Monk: Mongrelman (cultural flavor -- they are ascetic)
>> Bard: ???
>> Druid: ???
>> Cleric: ???
>> Sorcerer: Kobold (for cultural flavor only, no real numbers
>advantage)
>> Wizard: ???
>>
>>
>> If you were to bump up the LA to +3 as a possibility, I'd go with the
>
>> following:
>>
>> Barbarian: Orc
>> Fighter: Hobgoblin
>
>The other possibility I was thinking here was Duergar...
>
>> Paladin: Aasimar
>
>I was looking for evil so I left out paladin...
>

Wasn't the evil counterpart to the Paladin the "Deathknight"? Do they
still have those?
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 7:41:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:

> On 26 Feb 2005 15:34:12 -0800, "Justisaur" <justisaur@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>I was looking for evil so I left out paladin...
>>
>
> Wasn't the evil counterpart to the Paladin the "Deathknight"? Do they
> still have those?
I think death knights are specific to DragonLance. (Erm, and Ravenloft.)

-Will
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 7:41:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Will Green wrote:
> David Johnston wrote:
> > Justisaur wrote:
> > >
> > > I was looking for evil so I left out paladin...
> >
> > Wasn't the evil counterpart to the Paladin the
> > "Deathknight"? Do they still have those?
>
> I think death knights are specific to DragonLance.
> (Erm, and Ravenloft.)

Death Knights are undead, and don't fit as an evil counterpart to the
paladin. Common counterparts are blackguard (since the paladin should
be a PrC anyway), anti-paladin (for a CE version) and 'tyrant' or my
personal preference for name, 'illrigger' (for an LE version).

Dragon #31X (311-312 sounds familiar, but I could be wrong) had evil
variants, but I prefer using paladin as a prestige class (as Unearthed
Arcana), then making PrC versions of the other types of paladins
listed in UA (paladin of freedom = "liberator"; paladin of slaughter =
"anti-paladin"; paladin of tyranny = "illrigger").

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 7:41:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Keith Davies wrote:
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> >
> > Death Knights are undead, and don't fit as an evil
> > counterpart to the paladin. Common counterparts
> > are blackguard (since the paladin should be a PrC
> > anyway), anti-paladin (for a CE version) and
> > 'tyrant' or my personal preference for name,
> > 'illrigger' (for an LE version).
> >
> > Dragon #31X (311-312 sounds familiar, but I could
> > be wrong) had evil variants,
>
> from an old Dragon magazine article, _A Plethora
> of Paladins_, IIRC.

No, this is recent; just post-3.5, in fact. It was one of their three
issue "conversion specials" (the third). They already had paladin
variants for all non-LG, non-evil alignments in the first of the
series. Those issues are: #310 for non-evil, non-LG paladin types,
and #312 for evil variants, so I was pretty close.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 10:09:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 06:29:17 GMT, Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org>
scribed into the ether:

>Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
>> Keith Davies wrote:

>> No, this is recent; just post-3.5, in fact. It was one of their three
>> issue "conversion specials" (the third). They already had paladin
>> variants for all non-LG, non-evil alignments in the first of the
>> series. Those issues are: #310 for non-evil, non-LG paladin types,
>> and #312 for evil variants, so I was pretty close.
>
>They took the name from the old Dragon article, then.
>
>Ah, Dragon 106.
>
>NG Myrikhan
>CG Garath
>LN Lyan
>N Paramander

There is also the nihilist version of the Paramander, with a slightly
different spelling that I can't offhand recall. I've got the copy of Dragon
laying around somewhere that has the full article. The CG Paladin is a
wuss.
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 1:29:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Will Green wrote:

> David Johnston wrote:
>
>> On 26 Feb 2005 15:34:12 -0800, "Justisaur" <justisaur@netscape.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I was looking for evil so I left out paladin...
>>>
>>
>> Wasn't the evil counterpart to the Paladin the "Deathknight"? Do they
>> still have those?
>
> I think death knights are specific to DragonLance. (Erm, and Ravenloft.)

Greyhawk has some.
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 3:29:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ophidian wrote:
> Will Green wrote:
>
>> I think death knights are specific to DragonLance. (Erm, and
>> Ravenloft.)
>
> Greyhawk has some.

Indeed, Lord Soth was not the first death knight. He was the first death knight
with character, though.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
understand?
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigec...
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatel...

Quo usque tandem abutere, Vepre, patientia nostra?
March 11, 2005 8:30:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:29:29 GMT, "Christopher Adams"
<mhacdebhandia@yahoo.invalid> gibbered into the void:

>Ophidian wrote:
>> Will Green wrote:
>>
>>> I think death knights are specific to DragonLance. (Erm, and
>>> Ravenloft.)
>>
>> Greyhawk has some.
>
>Indeed, Lord Soth was not the first death knight. He was the first death knight
>with character, though.


IIRC, the Fiend Folio (1E) stated they were created by Demogorgon.
Though I could be confusing that with the Eye of Fear and Flame. Or
maybe it was the Retriever.

Too lazy to drag the book out of the storage bin, sorry.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 11:51:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Dan" <Boone@Daniel.com> wrote in message
news:o jb231to9kurc27cavkf6e1gpikhgtbsln@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:29:29 GMT, "Christopher Adams"
> <mhacdebhandia@yahoo.invalid> gibbered into the void:
>
>>Ophidian wrote:
>>> Will Green wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think death knights are specific to DragonLance. (Erm, and
>>>> Ravenloft.)
>>>
>>> Greyhawk has some.
>>
>>Indeed, Lord Soth was not the first death knight. He was the first death
>>knight
>>with character, though.
>
>
> IIRC, the Fiend Folio (1E) stated they were created by Demogorgon.

That is correct.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
March 15, 2005 10:55:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:51:55 -0800, "Malachias Invictus"
<capt_malachias@hotmail.com> gibbered into the void:

>
>"Dan" <Boone@Daniel.com> wrote in message
>news:o jb231to9kurc27cavkf6e1gpikhgtbsln@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:29:29 GMT, "Christopher Adams"
>> <mhacdebhandia@yahoo.invalid> gibbered into the void:
>>
>>>Ophidian wrote:
>>>> Will Green wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think death knights are specific to DragonLance. (Erm, and
>>>>> Ravenloft.)
>>>>
>>>> Greyhawk has some.
>>>
>>>Indeed, Lord Soth was not the first death knight. He was the first death
>>>knight
>>>with character, though.
>>
>>
>> IIRC, the Fiend Folio (1E) stated they were created by Demogorgon.
>
>That is correct.

Cool. I ought to not read stuff for 10 years at a time more often.
!