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Eberron Question: Improved Damage Reduction feat

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Anonymous
February 26, 2005 6:11:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

I don't completely understand the Improved Damage Reduction feat from the
Eberron Campaign Setting. The only requirement it lists is that your character
is Warforged, but from my interpretation of the Benefit, it seems like you
also have to either have the Adamantine Body feat, or else have Damage
Reduction already from some other means (such as being a Barbarian).

The Benefit section reads, "You gain damage reduction 1/adamantine or improve
your existing damage reduction by 1."

I'm not sure how to interpret the first part; what does "1/adamantine" mean?
It can't mean "1 per adamantine" because AFAIK adamantine isn't a numerical
trait; you either have the Adamantine Body feat or you don't. So I interpret
this sentence as meaning, you *gain* DR (if you didn't already have any) of 1
if you have an adamantine body, otherwise you gain +1 to your *existing* DR.

So, am I interpreting this correctly, or can a Warforged character take this
feat if he has neither the Adamantine Body feat nor Damage Reduction?

--
Karl von Laudermann - karlvonl(a)rcn.com - http://www.geocities.com/~karlvonl
#!/usr/bin/env ruby
c=" .,:;i|+=ahHME8";def l(a,b,c)x=b-a;y=c-a;Math.sqrt(x*x+y*y)end;25.times{|y|
50.times{|x|print(l(12,x/2,y)<=12?((c[l(8,x/2,y).to_i]||36).chr):" ")};puts""}

More about : eberron question improved damage reduction feat

Anonymous
February 26, 2005 6:11:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Karl von Laudermann wrote:

> I'm not sure how to interpret the first part; what does
"1/adamantine" mean?
> It can't mean "1 per adamantine" because AFAIK adamantine isn't a
numerical
> trait; you either have the Adamantine Body feat or you don't. So I
interpret
> this sentence as meaning, you *gain* DR (if you didn't already have
any) of 1
> if you have an adamantine body, otherwise you gain +1 to your
*existing* DR.



You're right, it doesn't mean that. it doesn't mean your second one
either. What it means is that you gain damage reduction of 1 versus
all attacks EXCEPT those which possess the 'adamantine' descriptor.
This stacks with other Damage Reduction/adamantine, but not with Damage
Reduction vs any other things. For the record, having an adamatine
body as a warforged does NOT give your attacks the adamantine
descriptor (unless the description says it does, in which case never
mind).




> So, am I interpreting this correctly, or can a Warforged character
take this
> feat if he has neither the Adamantine Body feat nor Damage Reduction?


No, you are not interpreting correctly and a warforged can take the
feat without Adamantine body or other damage reduction feats.


Note that I do not have the book in front of me, and I'm just going by
the rules as I remember them and your description.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 7:09:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1109449713.234803.108210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Shawn Wilson" <Ikonoqlast@gmail.com> wrote:

> Karl von Laudermann wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure how to interpret the first part; what does
> "1/adamantine" mean?
>
> You're right, it doesn't mean that. it doesn't mean your second one
> either. What it means is that you gain damage reduction of 1 versus
> all attacks EXCEPT those which possess the 'adamantine' descriptor.

Ah, thank you. AFAICT, this "Damage Reduction n/foobar" notation isn't
mentioned in the PHB or Eberron book. I'm assuming it's in the DMG or
something?

--
Karl von Laudermann - karlvonl(a)rcn.com - http://www.geocities.com/~karlvonl
#!/usr/bin/env ruby
c=" .,:;i|+=ahHME8";def l(a,b,c)x=b-a;y=c-a;Math.sqrt(x*x+y*y)end;25.times{|y|
50.times{|x|print(l(12,x/2,y)<=12?((c[l(8,x/2,y).to_i]||36).chr):" ")};puts""}
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Anonymous
February 26, 2005 7:40:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Karl von Laudermann" <karlvonl@rcn.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:karlvonl-0308A1.16095826022005@news.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <1109449713.234803.108210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Shawn Wilson" <Ikonoqlast@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Karl von Laudermann wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure how to interpret the first part; what does
> > "1/adamantine" mean?
> >
> > You're right, it doesn't mean that. it doesn't mean your second one
> > either. What it means is that you gain damage reduction of 1 versus
> > all attacks EXCEPT those which possess the 'adamantine' descriptor.
>
> Ah, thank you. AFAICT, this "Damage Reduction n/foobar" notation isn't
> mentioned in the PHB or Eberron book. I'm assuming it's in the DMG or
> something?

It's a 3.5E thing - are you using 3.0E core books?

The gist of it is that there's no such thing as DR X/+Y in 3.5E - there's
only DR X/[material or descriptor]. For example, DR 5/evil, DR 10/silver,
or DR 5/magic and cold iron; in the former case, DR would be penetrated by
weapons with the Evil descriptor, in the second, by weapons made of silver,
and in the third, by magic weapons made of cold iron.

- David Prokopetz.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 1:43:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Karl von Laudermann wrote:
> Shawn Wilson wrote:
> > Karl von Laudermann wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure how to interpret the first part; what does
> > > "1/adamantine" mean?
> >
> > What it means is that you gain damage reduction of 1
> > versus all attacks EXCEPT those which possess the
> > 'adamantine' descriptor.
>
> Ah, thank you. AFAICT, this "Damage Reduction n/foobar"
> notation isn't mentioned in the PHB

Check your PH's glossary, if you've got the PH3.5. But, yes, DR is
explained in greater detail in the DMG and in the MM (most of the
time, non-PC creatures have it).

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 4:05:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:11:27 -0500, Karl von Laudermann
<karlvonl@rcn.com.invalid> scribed into the ether:

>I don't completely understand the Improved Damage Reduction feat from the
>Eberron Campaign Setting. The only requirement it lists is that your character
>is Warforged, but from my interpretation of the Benefit, it seems like you
>also have to either have the Adamantine Body feat, or else have Damage
>Reduction already from some other means (such as being a Barbarian).
>
>The Benefit section reads, "You gain damage reduction 1/adamantine or improve
>your existing damage reduction by 1."
>
>I'm not sure how to interpret the first part; what does "1/adamantine" mean?

It means that every time someone with that feat is hit by a physical blow,
unless that weapon is made of adamantite, 1 point will be deducted from the
damage. If the weapon (or striking object...a rockslide that hits a
character would be subject to damage reduction) is adamantine, then the
damage it inflicts is unchanged.

> So I interpret
>this sentence as meaning, you *gain* DR (if you didn't already have any) of 1
>if you have an adamantine body, otherwise you gain +1 to your *existing* DR.

Almost. You gain the DR, but your actual body construction has no bearing
on it. If the warforged already has the Adamantine Body trait, and the
5/adamantine reduction (I think it is 5, I've only ever glanced through the
eberron books) it confers, then that would go up to 6/adamantine with the
addition of this feat.

>So, am I interpreting this correctly, or can a Warforged character take this
>feat if he has neither the Adamantine Body feat nor Damage Reduction?

Yes. If Adamantine Body was a requirement, then it would be listed along
with the "Being a warforged" requirement.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 12:25:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

I seem to have experienced an extremely realistic hallucination in which
Matt Frisch said...
> If the warforged already has the Adamantine Body trait, and the
> 5/adamantine reduction (I think it is 5, I've only ever glanced through the
> eberron books) it confers, then that would go up to 6/adamantine with the
> addition of this feat.

They start with 2/Adamantine, not 5/Adamantine. (A first level Feat that
granted that as well as an effective +6 to AC would be broken beyond
belief).
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 12:25:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
> I seem to have experienced an extremely realistic hallucination
> in which Matt Frisch said...
> > If the warforged already has the Adamantine Body trait, and the
> > 5/adamantine reduction (I think it is 5, I've only ever glanced
> > through the eberron books) it confers, then that would go up to
> > 6/adamantine with the addition of this feat.
>
> They start with 2/Adamantine, not 5/Adamantine. (A first level
> Feat that granted that as well as an effective +6 to AC would
> be broken beyond belief).

Agreed. That said, Adamantine Body does prevent them from *ever*
doing things one can only do in light or no armor (or even in medium
armor). The permanent speed reduction (and run limitation), for
example, and the complete inability to ever use Tumble, for any
reason.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 1:32:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <r9g221123j24k5goilca00ss69t2p8khmu@4ax.com>,
Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:

> Karl von Laudermann wrote:
> >
> > Ah, thank you. AFAICT, this "Damage Reduction n/foobar"
> > notation isn't mentioned in the PHB
>
> Check your PH's glossary, if you've got the PH3.5. But, yes, DR is
> explained in greater detail in the DMG and in the MM (most of the
> time, non-PC creatures have it).

Well, look at that, it's in the glossary! I've never looked at the glossary,
since I always thought it only contained info mentioned elsewhere in the book.
I'm going to have to start looking there more often. :-)

--
Karl von Laudermann - karlvonl(a)rcn.com - http://www.geocities.com/~karlvonl
#!/usr/bin/env ruby
c=" .,:;i|+=ahHME8";def l(a,b,c)x=b-a;y=c-a;Math.sqrt(x*x+y*y)end;25.times{|y|
50.times{|x|print(l(12,x/2,y)<=12?((c[l(8,x/2,y).to_i]||36).chr):" ")};puts""}
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 3:57:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Nikolas Landauer" <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote in message
news:83b3211ac8djkg2vlv2dfggsbuq0835ak7@4ax.com...
> Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
> > I seem to have experienced an extremely realistic hallucination
> > in which Matt Frisch said...
> > > If the warforged already has the Adamantine Body trait, and the
> > > 5/adamantine reduction (I think it is 5, I've only ever glanced
> > > through the eberron books) it confers, then that would go up to
> > > 6/adamantine with the addition of this feat.
> >
> > They start with 2/Adamantine, not 5/Adamantine. (A first level
> > Feat that granted that as well as an effective +6 to AC would
> > be broken beyond belief).
>
> Agreed. That said, Adamantine Body does prevent them from *ever*
> doing things one can only do in light or no armor (or even in medium
> armor). The permanent speed reduction (and run limitation), for
> example, and the complete inability to ever use Tumble, for any
> reason.

Indeed. It's really just a feat that gives you a pretty good suit of armour
for free, in exchange for the inability to ever take it off.

- David Prokopetz.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 8:21:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Nikolas Landauer wrote:

>Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
>
>
>>I seem to have experienced an extremely realistic hallucination
>>in which Matt Frisch said...
>>
>>
>>>If the warforged already has the Adamantine Body trait, and the
>>>5/adamantine reduction (I think it is 5, I've only ever glanced
>>>through the eberron books) it confers, then that would go up to
>>>6/adamantine with the addition of this feat.
>>>
>>>
>>They start with 2/Adamantine, not 5/Adamantine. (A first level
>>Feat that granted that as well as an effective +6 to AC would
>>be broken beyond belief).
>>
>>
>
>Agreed. That said, Adamantine Body does prevent them from *ever*
>doing things one can only do in light or no armor (or even in medium
>armor). The permanent speed reduction (and run limitation), for
>example, and the complete inability to ever use Tumble, for any
>reason.
>
>
>
One thing to remember about the Run speed limitation, Warforged
don't ever get tired. They can Run at their personal full speed forever.
No need of mounts. The perfect "pony express" messenger or warriors. I
can see a unit of Warforged running in formation, tirelessly towards
their military target.

--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-- Anatole France
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 8:23:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Prokopetz wrote:

>"Nikolas Landauer" <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote in message
>news:83b3211ac8djkg2vlv2dfggsbuq0835ak7@4ax.com...
>
>
>>Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I seem to have experienced an extremely realistic hallucination
>>>in which Matt Frisch said...
>>>
>>>
>>>>If the warforged already has the Adamantine Body trait, and the
>>>>5/adamantine reduction (I think it is 5, I've only ever glanced
>>>>through the eberron books) it confers, then that would go up to
>>>>6/adamantine with the addition of this feat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>They start with 2/Adamantine, not 5/Adamantine. (A first level
>>>Feat that granted that as well as an effective +6 to AC would
>>>be broken beyond belief).
>>>
>>>
>>Agreed. That said, Adamantine Body does prevent them from *ever*
>>doing things one can only do in light or no armor (or even in medium
>>armor). The permanent speed reduction (and run limitation), for
>>example, and the complete inability to ever use Tumble, for any
>>reason.
>>
>>
>
>Indeed. It's really just a feat that gives you a pretty good suit of armour
>for free, in exchange for the inability to ever take it off.
>
> - David Prokopetz.
>
>
But you can improve it I believe with other Feats. It is a major
limitation in many ways. It is also a decent choice if it fits your
character concept.

--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-- Anatole France
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 9:04:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Tetsubo wrote:
> David Prokopetz wrote:
> > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> > >
> > > That said, Adamantine Body does prevent them from *ever*
> > > doing things one can only do in light or no armor (or
> > > even in medium armor). The permanent speed reduction
> > > (and run limitation), for example, and the complete
> > > inability to ever use Tumble, for any reason.
> >
> > Indeed. It's really just a feat that gives you a pretty
> > good suit of armour for free, in exchange for the
> > inability to ever take it off.
>
> But you can improve it I believe with other Feats. It
> is a major limitation in many ways. It is also a
> decent choice if it fits your character concept.

The only warforged feats are:
.. Adamantine Body or Mithral Body (mutually exclusive, 1st level only)
.. Mithral Fluidity (req. Mithral Body, reduces ACP to -1)
.. Improved Fortification (immune to criticals and sneak attack; can no
longer be /cured/)
.. Improved Damage Reduction (add or increase DR by 1/adamantine, as
mentioned earlier in this thread; stacks at 1:1)

So, at significant feat cost, you can improve it... You can't,
however, improve it beyond what is listed here (barring more feats in
Races of Eberron), and the best improvements come with significant
disadvantages.

In other words, it's balanced. :D 

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 9:08:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Tetsubo wrote:
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> >
> > That said, Adamantine Body does prevent them from *ever*
> > doing things one can only do in light or no armor (or
> > even in medium armor). The permanent speed reduction
> > (and run limitation), for example, and the complete
> > inability to ever use Tumble, for any reason.
>
> One thing to remember about the Run speed limitation,
> Warforged don't ever get tired. They can Run at their
> personal full speed forever. No need of mounts. The
> perfect "pony express" messenger or warriors. I can
> see a unit of Warforged running in formation,
> tirelessly towards their military target.

Thus the whole purpose of the race. :D  They are *war* -forged, in
fact, and they became the dominant military force (on most sides) in
the Last War.

Their tradeoffs aren't insignificant (negative total stat mods; 50%
immunity to /cure/ spells, or total immunity if they enhance their
abilities in certain ways; susceptibility to both creature and object
spells), which makes me feel they're well balanced. The psychological
aspect can't be ignored for warforged in Eberron, nor should it in any
other setting. (I'm not saying that they're balanced by the RPing
aspect, I'm just saying that the RPing aspect shouldn't be ignored.)

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 9:11:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Karl von Laudermann wrote:
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> > Karl von Laudermann wrote:
> > >
> > > Ah, thank you. AFAICT, this "Damage Reduction n/foobar"
> > > notation isn't mentioned in the PHB
> >
> > Check your PH's glossary, if you've got the PH3.5. But,
> > yes, DR is explained in greater detail in the DMG and in
> > the MM (most of the time, non-PC creatures have it).
>
> Well, look at that, it's in the glossary! I've never
> looked at the glossary, since I always thought it only
> contained info mentioned elsewhere in the book.

It contains info mentioned elsewhere in the book*s*. :D 

> I'm going to have to start looking there more often. :-)

Good idea. Also, most of the rules from all three core books are
present at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35 ,
though there are sites with well-formatted HTML versions available
online as well.

Hope this helps.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 1:48:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:25:36 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> scribed
into the ether:

>I seem to have experienced an extremely realistic hallucination in which
>Matt Frisch said...
>> If the warforged already has the Adamantine Body trait, and the
>> 5/adamantine reduction (I think it is 5, I've only ever glanced through the
>> eberron books) it confers, then that would go up to 6/adamantine with the
>> addition of this feat.
>
>They start with 2/Adamantine, not 5/Adamantine. (A first level Feat that
>granted that as well as an effective +6 to AC would be broken beyond
>belief).

Ok, +2..whatever. I don't think the feat is all that broken, in light of
the fact that it prevents the warforged from wearing armor. It's very
strong at low levels, but you don't stay low level, and *far* superior
armors come along that the warforged who takes this feat cannot equip.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 3:09:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

I seem to have experienced an extremely realistic hallucination in which
Matt Frisch said...
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:25:36 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> scribed
> into the ether:
>
> >I seem to have experienced an extremely realistic hallucination in which
> >Matt Frisch said...
> >> If the warforged already has the Adamantine Body trait, and the
> >> 5/adamantine reduction (I think it is 5, I've only ever glanced through the
> >> eberron books) it confers, then that would go up to 6/adamantine with the
> >> addition of this feat.
> >
> >They start with 2/Adamantine, not 5/Adamantine. (A first level Feat that
> >granted that as well as an effective +6 to AC would be broken beyond
> >belief).
>
> Ok, +2..whatever. I don't think the feat is all that broken, in light of
> the fact that it prevents the warforged from wearing armor.

No, it doesn't. Being Warforged prevents them from wearing armour
already. What it *does* do, as others have mentioned, is give them all
the drawbacks of wearing *heavy* armour all the time, with no
possibility of taking it off.

> It's very
> strong at low levels, but you don't stay low level, and *far* superior
> armors come along that the warforged who takes this feat cannot equip.

He can get himself enchanted and duplicate any ability he could get that
way, so this isn't a problem.

There are some very real drawbacks to AB, but neither of the things you
brought up in this post were among them.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 1:35:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:09:55 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> scribed
into the ether:

>I seem to have experienced an extremely realistic hallucination in which
>Matt Frisch said...
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:25:36 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> scribed
>> into the ether:

>> >They start with 2/Adamantine, not 5/Adamantine. (A first level Feat that
>> >granted that as well as an effective +6 to AC would be broken beyond
>> >belief).
>>
>> Ok, +2..whatever. I don't think the feat is all that broken, in light of
>> the fact that it prevents the warforged from wearing armor.
>
>No, it doesn't. Being Warforged prevents them from wearing armour
>already. What it *does* do, as others have mentioned, is give them all
>the drawbacks of wearing *heavy* armour all the time, with no
>possibility of taking it off.

I have failed my Remember Game Rule You Read Once check.

>> It's very
>> strong at low levels, but you don't stay low level, and *far* superior
>> armors come along that the warforged who takes this feat cannot equip.
>
>He can get himself enchanted and duplicate any ability he could get that
>way, so this isn't a problem.

Hmm, clearly my thumb through of the book was insufficient, I didn't know
they could be directly enchanted.

I still don't think that the feat is all that unbalanced :) 
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 5:52:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Time to step up the meds; I could have sworn Matt Frisch just said...

> Hmm, clearly my thumb through of the book was insufficient, I didn't know
> they could be directly enchanted.
>
> I still don't think that the feat is all that unbalanced :) 

I never said it was, though it's certainly at the high end if you're
playing the kind of character who would be interested in it. All I said
was that it would be if it offered a DR of 5.
!