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Northwood.. your opinions.

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Anonymous
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April 25, 2001 9:35:25 PM

I like to keep up on new technology and from what Ive read so far about Northwood it looks very promising. Im not too thrilled right now about the whole P4 platform but when Northwood is released I may change my mind.
Intel claims that the die shrink to .13 will allow the P4 core to scale up to 6Ghz without any further modifications to the chip(aside from voltage adjustments). If its true (which i belive it is) that information is significant enough to safely assume that the Northwood platform will be around for quite awhile thus maximizing your investment. Possibly with a good motherboard which has alot of multipliers and voltage adjustments you could buy a 2GHz Northwood P4 and continue to upgrade your cpu's all the way up to 6Ghz without spending another dime on new motherboards or memory. Lets see an AMD platform do that. and just imagine the overclocking possiblities the 2GHz P4 will have when it has a core capable of 6GHz. It'll be an overclockers wet dream.

More about : northwood opinions

April 25, 2001 9:46:38 PM

Yeah, it all sounds just great in theory, but be realistic.
What is the probability that you're really going to be able to get a board that will handle all the way from 2-6GHz. And lets stop bashing AMD when we're talking about something that isn't even a realistic possibility. I am not pro Intel and neither a pro AMD individual, but to bash one or the other over a theory is a little rediculous.
April 25, 2001 9:54:08 PM

Northwood sounds great actually. We may be able to use the same motherboard for most of the transistion from 2GHz through 6GHz with only flash BIOS updates.

-Raystonn


-- The center of your digital world --
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Anonymous
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April 25, 2001 10:19:46 PM

I think the probability of a motherboard supporting 2-6ghz is very feasible.. Look at the Abit BH6 it may well be the most successful overclocking motherboard ever. I bought one back when the celeron 300A was all the rage (actually I was one of the first to buy a 300A and was the first to post my successful overclocking results here on Tom's hardware forum back when it was running on delphi) Anyway back to the issue at hand, with continued bios updates from abit the BH6 is still a damn good board which now supports 1GHz PIII and could possibly support higher speed PIII's if the PIII core hadnt capped out.
And about the AMD "bashing" lol.. I apologize if i hurt your feelings, how inconsiderate of me.
April 25, 2001 10:36:14 PM

It would be great if it would really go all the way from 2-6GHz. But do you honestly think Intel and friends would let you get away with that? If they're not changing the design and you're not having to upgrade except for new CPU's, they're not making much money. Do you think that makes Intel bean counters happy? You use your Abit board as a reference and I agree you have got some great mileage out of it, but you're talking about 4GHz... not 800MHz. The "bashing" was a bit harsh I agree, but to challenge AMD against a non-existent product is well... a little silly.
April 25, 2001 10:45:44 PM

You must think in terms of percentage increases, not linear increases. 2GHz to 6GHz is much the same as 200MHz to 600MHz as far as performance increases and motherboards go. New CPU clockings will no longer be in 20MHz increases, but in 200MHz increases (note the jump from 1.5GHz to 1.7GHz.) Everything has been multiplied by 10.

Moving from 2GHz to 6GHz is absolutely no problem.

-Raystonn

-- The center of your digital world --
Anonymous
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April 25, 2001 11:42:08 PM

Thanks Raystonn, i was just about to post a similiar response but yours is perfect. Isnt it funny that when people see the letters GHz they seem to loose all rational thought and just go ooohhh and ahhhh. and say things like, A motherboard that can support cpu's all the way to 6GHz. OMG!!! No freakin way!!!
Well duh, i just explained how my BH6 board supports CPU's from 300mhz to 1GHz thats over a 150% increase. Going from 2-6Hz is nearly the same percentage gain. Some people just dont get it theyre still stuck in the Mhz line of thinking they believe that going from 1GHz to 2GHz is nothing short of astounding, when in reality its no different then going from 300mhz to 600mhz the same percentage/performance gain is achieved.
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 12:34:26 AM

<<<It would be great if it [motherboard] would really go all the way from 2-6GHz. But do you honestly think Intel and friends would let you get away with that?>>>

Get away with what? Your comment seems to have a healthy dose of paranoia….
The way I see it is that Intel is in the business of designing and manufacturing CPU’s (ok they do make other products chipsets, nic’s.. etc) but Intel’s bread and butter is CPU’s, everyone knows that. And as long as Intel is selling lots of CPU’s they’re happy. I think Intel could care less if I have motherboard that can handle processors from 2-6GHz. When I upgrade my processor I still have to buy it from Intel, right. I think your whole post is a little overboard.
April 26, 2001 1:02:26 AM

I realize that you haven't seen a roadmap lately. 2 Ghz is by the end of the year. I think 2.4 is on the map a year from then. So 6 Ghz is right around 2004-2005. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD A MANUFACTURER SELL A MOTHERBOARD THAT WOULD LAST THAT LONG????? Maybe there is some upgraded info I don't know about? Are 6 Ghz around the corner?

It would put them out of business. Do you think they'll just sit on their thumbs for all those years? Even if they could, they wouldn't. IT MAKES NO BUSINESS SENSE!!!

You also forget that even if you are right, and the voltages and multipliers all match up for all those years, what about USB, AGP, MEMORY, PCI, etc etc advancements? You would surely NEED or WANT to upgrade so that you didn't slow your brand new 6Ghz processor down to old 2Ghz speeds that the motherboard was originally designed for.

<font color=red>Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.</font color=red>
Pablo Picasso<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by dhlucke on 04/25/01 06:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 26, 2001 1:30:47 AM

"I think 2.4 is on the map a year from then. So 6 Ghz is right around 2004-2005"

Where did you ever get that? That's quite incorrect. Expect to see speeds well over 3GHz by the end of 2002. We should be at 6GHz at the end of 2003. That's a bit over 2 years away. Always remember Moore's law.

-Raystonn

-- The center of your digital world --
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 1:45:20 AM

I totally agree with dhlucke and he stated the point better than Bankboy did. Yeah you could do it, but would you really want to? I mean, it's like using your mobo with the latest and greatest PIII and having an ISA SCSI, NIC, and other cards on your 5/6 yr old board. Are you really doing yourself any favors? Intel won't let it go on forever and you wouldn't want it to. "IT DOESN'T make good business sense."
It doesn't do any business man any good to build a product that never needs replaced, or needs replaced after he goes out of business due to lack of income.

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction "
---> sooner or later you'll hit the wall on your mobo. (But isn't it great that it goes up to 6Ghz???)

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kej12804 on 04/25/01 09:48 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 2:25:33 AM

Yourself and dchuckle would have a good point if your numbers were correct. However, as Raystonn already mentioned Moore's law tells us that we should see 6GHz cpu's in just over 2 yrs from the time Northwood is released not 5 or 6 yrs.
There is one feature that the first motherboards may lack which could be important, and that is support for serial ATA. But if Serial ATA arrives before 2003 i would almost bet there will be add-on controller cards available such as there is now for ATA 66 and 100 devices.
April 26, 2001 2:35:30 AM

Exactly!!! There would be plenty of other changes: New PCI bus, AGP, Memory and Memory bus, hell new type slots . . .

And what about new cores or the Itanium for that matter. The 87 should start fading away in a couple of years.

And I still don't beleive it will hit 6 GHz. By the way hasn't the bus of Intel migrated from 66 to 133 in the 300's lifetime? The jump from 100 to 133 recently is a nice improvement.


Hey how about that Palamino?

BTW I'm looking forward to both the Palamino and Northwood. Who will earn my respect and cash? I'll even buy Rambus if it's worth it. Sorry all don't hate me!!!

<b><A HREF="http://www.seti.tomshardware.com/" target="_new">How fast is your PC</A></b>
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 3:11:51 AM

Were talking about a motheboard life span of just over 2yrs here folks. Do you honestly believe the face computing is going to change that drastically in 2yrs. Cmon, the computer industry moves fast but hell if it moves THAT fast. LOL. It takes time for things to change. There are commitee's and research and marketing that have to take place. For example, look at USB 2.0, the go ahead was started over a year ago and were just now seeing the first USB 2.0 controllers and I have yet to see an actual USB 2.0 device for sale on the market.
Northwood will be new platform with all the newest features and memory and quad-pumped memory bus. I personally dont see any drastic changes coming down the pipeline that is going to make the Northwood platform obsolete in less then 2yrs from its launch.
Do you really think Intel is just going to decide one day to pull all the PCI slots off there motherboards in favor of a newer faster type? No. they would be committing business suicide if they did that. Intel needs the support from the rest of the computer industry, after all Intel doesn’t make all the peripherals that go into those mobo slots. Any proposed drastic changes like that causes a stir in the computer industry and we all would of heard of such things. Well, at least the tech savvy among us would.
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 3:21:18 AM

Its the same old story from Intel. The P3 Xeon was suposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, according to Intell. So they raked consumers over the coals charging up to $2000 more for the Xeon then the same clock speed P3 and as it turned out the Xeon wasnt an improvmentat all just mor expensive. Now we get the P4 and Nothwood diferent names but same game. Fancy marketing over substance to line intel pockets. It seems with the increased competition Intell would loose some arrogance, but as we are seeing the contrary is proving true. Intel is more about averice than good products.

Anim88tor
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 4:27:50 AM

Oh boy. Now were really getting off topic. Its the big bad Intel spill, Arrogance and marketing. Well, as you may already know the Xeon line of processors was made for the server market were its 1, 2, or 4 MB of L2 cache can really benefit client/server performance. Of course the Xeon is going to suck as an average home system.. it wasn’t made for that. Since we didn’t and still don’t see AMD or any other direct competitor to Intel offering a realistic server platform Intel had the luxury of charging a premium for its Xeon line. Any business will do the same thing. By nature the server market is high-priced. Look at how expensive a decent SCSI RAID controller can cost, upwards of $2000. Do you really think a RAID controller is anymore complicated then a CPU with 30 million transistors.. I think not. Up to this point Intel has had it made in the server market, brand name recognition and market dominance its common business tactic to make a profit from that. Do you think AMD would do any different if they were in the same position.. lol… somehow I don’t think they would.
I do agree with you somewhat on some of Intel’s marketing strategy/gimmicks, such as pimping the P4 as being able to provide better internet experience.. lol had to laugh the first time I saw that one. But in reality all the companies do it. I think most computers companies at one time or another have hyped there products more then they should have. AMD certainly has fell victim to such practices in the past. nVidia, 3dfx (may they rest in peace) and countless other companies have done the same thing. It’s the way the game is played. You can bitch all you want about it, but everyone does it and its not about to change.
April 26, 2001 5:21:19 AM

Well, to get back on topic here I think you are overlooking a couple of things. For a motherboard to be able to ramp all the way to 6 gig it will have to keep pace with the speed steppings of the processor. The p4 currently runs a quad pumped 100 mhz bus. As long as intel keeps it at 100 then in theory you are correct the board could last that long. However, I just don't see this a feasable, or even benificial. You are most likely to see the core bus ( in this case 100) being ramped up as well. The chances of the motherbords chipsets handling this are very very slim. athlon users recently are going thru the same thing. The introduction of the "c" athlons and there now dual pumped 133 mhz bus as compared to the old "B" with there dual pumped 100 mhz bus, required a simular motherboard upgrade. Also, I am sure there will be increases in the (memory) RDRAM bus as well that will need to be addressed as well. Admittably, the northwood does look promising, but I wold not hold your breath on a motherbard lasting its life cycle.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 7:07:27 AM

Well at least Intel can do it right in two tries. Athlon A B C Palomino and thoroughbred. OMG that's sure a lot of chips to milk customers on cause you think here for a sec (I know its hard for you AMD guys but try) Say you buy a Athlon classic your all happy then the Athlon B or C comes along your like cool I get that now another 200 gone then the palomino comes maybe good option for the Athlon A or B guys boom another 200 then thoroughbred comes and everyone wants on the bandwagon boom another 200. So in theory you AMD monkeys actually will spend 600+ (cost of ram has to be added) to stay up to date while Intel has good old boy the p4 for . Well if the math is right then its more cost effective to just buy the p4 and sit back till 6 ghz comes along . Hmm that's something for your monkey brains to think on. Don't think to hard I don't want your brains to fry.

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=blue>Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood blue man </font color=blue> :smile:
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 8:17:26 AM

heheh.. you have a good point. When it comes to good investment and longevity AMD and Intel are total opposites. It seems like every time you turn around AMD or VIA is releasing a new core stepping or motherboard chipset which forces users (i could call them monkey's but i wont) to cough up more cash to stay current. On the other hand Intel can design a single motherboard chipset which supports four different CPU cores and speeds from 266 mhz up to 1Ghz. All of this from a single motherboard. Hmmm.. it sure doesn’t look good for AMD or VIA's engineering abilities.
April 26, 2001 8:41:24 AM

That has got to be the stupidist defense of the p4 I have heard yet?

p2, celerona (no cache) celeron b ( by george maybe we ought to stick a little l2 on this dam thing) p2 katmai, p3 katmai, p3 coppermine, celeron coppermine,p3 tulatin, p4 williamette, p4 northwood, on and on and on. What the hell is your point here? Gimme a break. Yeah go tell the users of the I810-I84o motherboards how cheap it will be to upgrade to the p4, tell the user of the I815 how cheap it will be to upgrade to the tulatin core p3, or the p4, tell the user of the p4 now they got to get a new board for the northwood as well! Who's got monkey brains? Jesus you going to make a point for the p4 at least make a good one, that certainly is not it.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
April 26, 2001 8:44:50 AM

If I recall correctly, all of the processors you listed worked on the same BH6 motherboard, requiring only flash BIOS updates. Did I miss the point of your post?

-Raystonn

-- The center of your digital world --
April 26, 2001 8:54:10 AM

no the p4 willaimette the p4 northwood the p3 tualatin none of will work in a bh. And while yes the bx was a great chipset that does not seem to be the trend of intel of late now does it? Meaning motherbord longetivety. Furthermore, while the bh6 had an intel chipset, how many intel motherboards ( made by intel) had the same bios upgrades made available to them to go from the p2 to p3?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
April 26, 2001 9:05:12 AM

Furthermore, was it I that missed the point or Spudmuffin? I merely pointed out that chances were very slim for a motherboard to be able to ramp from 2 gig to 6 gig. It wouldn't matter if it was Intel or AMD for that matter. Why did that have to turn into an Intel vs. AMD issue. Doesn't he have anything better to do? While yes, the bx was a great chipset, Amd extended the life of the socket 7 format when intel gave up on it. The slot a went from 550 to 1 gig, the socket a gos form 600 to 1.3 ( maybe higher). The simple fact of the matter is that unlike with the bx, speed changes are occuring over a much shorter time frame. To try to make an intel vs AMD issue out of the fact that users need to upgrade there motherboards is rather ludicrous, both AMD and Intel are equally as guilty in this reagard. As a matter of fact Intel may be even a bit more so with the willaimette.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Ncogneto on 04/26/01 05:07 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 26, 2001 9:05:45 AM

Where did you hear the projected frequency figures for Northwood?

As for features I have heard that it will have more L2 cache and an on-die memory controller. Both of these features will reduce memory latency which is probably what is really killing the P4 at the moment.

It will be VERY interesting to see performance with DDR and Northwood, it should truly shine. Intel then just have to work on an even better branch predictor and scale up the Gigahertz to deliver on the potential this core has.
April 26, 2001 9:13:03 AM

Are you actully telling me you think the motherboards that come out to support the p4 northwood will ramp to 6 gig ( assuming the northwood itself does)? And I wasn't even slamming the northwood I actually think it has great promise. but I wouldn't bank on the fact that you will be able to get one motherboard that will support it all the way to 6 gig

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
April 26, 2001 9:23:26 AM

Yes, but if more memory advances are made, such as faster RDRAM, you will be stuck with the slower features of the old motherboard if you do not upgrade. A 6GHz P4 is probably about 2.5 years down the road. The BH chipset lasted at least that long. 6GHz is to 2GHz as 600MHz was to 200MHz.

-Raystonn

-- The center of your digital world --
April 26, 2001 12:28:42 PM

<font color=blue>"Well at least Intel can do it right in two tries. Athlon A B C Palomino and thoroughbred. OMG that's sure a lot of chips to milk customers on cause you think here for a sec (I know its hard for you AMD guys but try)"</font color=blue>

Lets see.

Pentium, Pentium mmx, Pentium II, Pentium III, Pentium III overclocked and sold as 1Ghz. Same core for 5 years and still being produced. Shrunken to .13 for Tualatin. Milking customers?

Open your eyes Spud.

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
April 26, 2001 2:57:55 PM

"6GHz is to 2GHz as 600MHz was to 200MHz."


Thats a bit of an over-simplification, thats like saying 100mph to 300 mph is just like 10 mph is to 30 mph. yeah, sure the percentage increase is the same, however when working on the smaller end of the scale, alot easier to obtain.


A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
April 26, 2001 5:20:32 PM

Right.... And then there is RDRAM support. Would you still want PC800 RDRAM with a 6GHz CPU? That would be a heck of a bottleneck. Things other than the CPU itself have to be considered... and besides that, I doubt Intel would tolerate that kind of overclocking. If you could really get one of their 2GHz CPU that much higher, they will likely increase the protection against overclocking.

--Fltsimbuff
April 26, 2001 5:23:52 PM

True... tough to follow a roadmap in the middle of a race.... Intel will have to release CPUs early enough to compete with AMD's chips, so long as AMD is still in the "Race."

--Fltsimbuff
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 5:59:04 PM

<<Where did you hear the projected frequency figures for Northwood?>>

It was disclosed at the recent IDF conference.
The bump in L2 cache from 256K to 512k will definetly help bring back some performance to the P4.
Also dont forget that the Northwood has a double pumped Integer Arithmetic Logic Unit (ALU). So for every 200Mhz increase in clock speed Integer performance will increase by double (400Mhz). As Intel continues to ramp up clock speeds Northwood is really gonna shine.
April 26, 2001 6:11:41 PM

>such as pimping the P4 as being able to provide better internet experience..

AMD was the first pimp on the block to pimp their cpu's, "Enhanced Internet Experience" lol!!!

<A HREF="http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/k623d/index.html" target="_new">Original pimp</A>

"AMD...you are the weakest link, good bye!"
April 26, 2001 6:35:47 PM

There has been an utter lack of research in most of these posts. First off I can't find any roadmap by Intel that even has a processor over 2 Ghz in the near future. So my 2.4 was overly optimistic so far.

Keep in mind that in order to get to 6 Ghz you will have new bus speeds and new manufacturering processes to keep the heat down. I did read a couple of reviews that were very favorable to the Northwood. They expected the P4 to be able to hit 3 Ghz easily, but they also suggested that it would take Intel a while to do so since they have no need to release that speed. Just like they held onto the P4 1.7 for marketing purposes.

So lets just think about this. Lets say you buy a motherboard on January 1st 2002. You have a 2 Ghz P4, 6 PCI slots 2 of which are 64 bit, it has SCSI (maybe 320), it's got ultra 100 IDE, 4 Memory slots supporting 2 Gigs, and AGP 4x Pro slot, all the jumpers in the world, USB 2.0, etc etc.

So in 2-3 years, you want to pop in a 6 Ghz right? Fine, you pop that bad boy in there and what have you got? You've got too little memory expansion, USB has advanced, PCI slots are only running at 64 bit, so you only have 2 slots, 1 Ghz SDRAM or DDR or whatever is the bottom of the barrel basically, but you can't use them. AGP works, but you can't run the newest cards. IDE devices are running at 200, but basically are being phased out for something new.

Now I could go on, and I might be wrong about all of this, but if ONLY ONE of these projections are true, then no matter what speed of processor your MB can handle, it's going to need to be replaced.

<font color=red>Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.</font color=red>
Pablo Picasso
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 6:55:56 PM

Yeah, the Northwood looks very good. Smaller, cheaper, cooler, faster. I've used those four about 20 times in the last week on this forum.

If it can go to 6GHz, then Intel can push the prices down further, cos they won't have to do much R&D for the next 3 years. I don't hear AMD claiming this for the Palomino, or indeed the Throughbred.

I don't think we'll get to quite 6GHz with the i850 (Northwood socket model), because as people have said there'll be too many advances in memory, disk controller, USB, etc, etc for this to happen. I do think the 400MHz FSB has room to spare, however, so we might get to put a 4GHz chip into a Q3 2000 Northwood system.

It would be even better if I could replace a 1.3GHz P4 with a 4GHz P4 in a few years. Why Intel has to stick 5 extra pins onto the chip, I have no idea. This is the most annoying thing about Northwood for me, and a good reason why I haven't bought any P4 systems yet.

~ The First Formally Rehabilitated AMD Lemming ~
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 7:02:20 PM

<<<There has been an utter lack of research in most of these posts. First off I can't find any roadmap by Intel that even has a processor over 2 Ghz in the near future. So my 2.4 was overly optimistic so far.>>>

Why is it that opponents of Intel suddenly want to throw moore's law out the window? Moore's perdiction was made in 1965 and has held true ever since. Recently Intel themselves stated that they were confident Moore's law will hold true for at least 10 more years.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by everett6 on 04/26/01 01:12 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 7:32:39 PM

But why is it so hard to understand that a motherboard can handle a chip up to 6 ghz??? I dont want to go to 64 bit pci and could care less for anything higher than agp X4. 64 bit scsi oh well i can get that integrated into the board, and agp X4 plus well man they cant even utilize X2 full potential let alone 4. And USB sucks omg i have only one need fer it the printer and the scanner thats it, and i certainly dont run them while doing anything important.But truthfully maybe a 64 bit nic card be nice but hell my drive cant spit it out that s fast. And tell me how long did it take to move from isa to pci? Damn long time so 2 or 3 years isnt going to be a big deal. You just have to sit back and enjoy the ride cause im not forking out more money to get a new nic sound and modem. Unless i have to :( .

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=blue>Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood blue man </font color=blue> :smile:
April 26, 2001 9:17:35 PM

It's quite easy to say "yeah... I'm just fine with the system I have now" until the next latest and greatest part comes out. I find it hard to believe that you will be satisfied with all of the components in your box in a year from now, let alone 2 or 3 years(if Intel will/can release up to 6GHz CPU's in that time). Yeah and nobody will ever need > than 640K Bill Gates, er... I mean Spud. And one more thing I saw mentioned went something to the effect of yeah and so what... they will have controller cards to make up for what the board doesn't have (i.e. - DMA 33, 66, or 100). Yeah that's great you'll have a mobo packed with cards just so you can have fast access times etc. What a bargain of a board!!
April 26, 2001 10:06:09 PM

In keeping with moores law, Intels R&D department is working on developing a microchip with a .01 micron process, yes, .01 micron. Prototypes are already being tested. This is orders of magnitude smaller than todays .18 micron process, or even .13. This process will not only allow a faster processor but also drastically reduce the amount of power needed and the amount of heat produced. It is suggested that with this technology, a processor running at 10 GHz using less than 2 watts is very possible. Intel plans on releasing this technology to the mass market by 2005 and is able to produce it at very little cost (rumored less than $200). Just a little bit of info. I have come across. But it is also true that the bottlenecks of the future will probably not reside in the processor, but in that which interacts with it (a reference to Amdahls Law which states that a bottleneck will always exist). As for using the same motherboard 5 years or even 3 years down the road, I see it impossible. If Intel or AMD were to keep with the same technology they have in production now, a P4 running at 10 GHz or more would probably produce as much heat as a rocket and would probably require 5000 watts to run it (you could heat your whole neighborhood with that). This is of course just my opinion. Imagine the possiblities of a quantum computer?
April 26, 2001 10:24:22 PM

Well it could be true that Northwood could hit 6ghz. Well isnt northwood also favored in a 133mhz(533mhz) FSB and a 166mhz(664mhz)FSB or even a true 200mhz fsb(800mhz)FSB.

Northwood P4 + i845(brookdale)+ 200mhz DDR-SDRAM + ATi Radeon 2 = Dream Team :cool:
Anonymous
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April 26, 2001 11:37:36 PM

I suspect Abit and Asus will come out with some kick ass Northwood motherboards with all the goodies we've come to expect in a overclocking board. FSB speeds from 100-200+ in 1MHz increments, Voltage adjustments galore.. etc.
Anonymous
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April 27, 2001 12:15:31 AM

Damn rights.

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=blue>Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood blue man </font color=blue> :smile:
April 27, 2001 6:46:03 AM

I've heard the projections, I've heard the laws, but what about reality? YES, processor speeds will increase dramatically. I'm not so sure about 6 Ghz in 2 years, but it will happen sooner rather than later. I have heard the estimated 10Ghz by 2005 hopefully, but that was a theory a couple years back. Is that still being flaunted?

Nonetheless, I just don't subscribe to the idea that the only important part is the processor.

I want faster HD speeds and faster faster faster everything. I want a motherboard that can accomodate all those extras that everyone including myself have mentioned above. Maybe it's me, but when it gets to the point where you are adding controller cards, it's time to upgrade the motherboard.

My first computer was 8 Mhz and it lasted 6 years (barely). My second computer was 25 Mhz and it lasted 6 years (barely), and here I am 3 years into my 400 Mhz machine and it feels like I'm driving a winnebago. So yes things are changing faster. But 6 Ghz in 2-3 years? I'm guessing by 2005, so that's roughly 3.5-4.5 years. Either way the motherboards of today will not run them.

Let's not forget that the Intel, AMD, and Apple all can have the same performance at different speeds. The 1.5 Ghz P4 competes with the 1.3 Ghz AMD for example.

<font color=red>Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.</font color=red>
Pablo Picasso
Anonymous
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April 27, 2001 9:54:18 AM

A few facts,
Northwood, exists, I cannot say too much as per agreements,
but I have seen it and it has been shipping as engineering samples since FEB..

I have seen it running at 2 ghz, on a 870 chipset,
with Serial ATA, FIrewire, USB 2, and AGP PRO
and well it is fast...

the P4 can scale to 6 ghz, though, in different forms,
the P4 family will only go to 3 ghz in current form before INTEL moves to IA 64 64 bit chips that will likely be P5
or something like that next AUG 2002..

Northwood is the same as current P4 except for larger cache 512, but otherwise just good and fast..

that long pipeline and rambus latency that everyone mistakenly bashes is the reason why the CPU can scale to 5+ghz, it allows for faster speeds without stalling, or
backing up..

AMD cannot do this without a ground up new design which PAlimino nor HAMMER can or will do..
they can scale to 2.5 ghz max without redesigning teh CPU
to be like P4 ..
they need to get rid of the pathetic 10 stage pipeline,
better reordering and more efficient instruction management,
add a better branch table, have a faster bus speed,
and better memory and chipset to get where P4 is..

the P4 in currect form at 1.7 ghz is only the baby one,
the first iteration that will goto 2 ghz within 3 months,
then onto 3GHZ by next summer...
it will move up in speed and capabilities so fast because it can and is a ground up new P7 design,
the same weakness it has with todays's non P4 optimized apps will be its biggest strength when windows XP and more P4 apps appear in Sept..
260 software vendors have signed on for P4 optimization
and more every day..
read Adobe's announcement that PS has P4 code now and is 70% faster !!

the P4 current is every bit as good as northwood,
and largely similiar, in architecture, with only differences
being Northwoods's
smaller die size to allow 2-3 ghz, and more cache to
compensate for higher speed,.. that's it !

oh and the pinout will be 47x to have more pins for
smaller size, and cache etc..

the 87x chipset will be awesome, supporting the above mentioned features,
and the SMP northwood also debuing in the fall, will
support called FOSTER, will have 1 meg cache , up to 4 CPU's
each at 2 ghz, seperate dual channel rambus 3,2 pipes for each CPU, and a new MULTITHREADING feature in the hardware to speed application performance in windows XP

NONE OF WHICH AMD HAS ..

so the CPU exists, and ahead of schedule, as it is getting such a good yield at the factory, and easier to make than P3..
a notebook version exists as well BTW !!

the difference between INTEL and AMD future products is
INTEL does not comment on future CPU's but has them sitting on the shelf already and up and running, waiting for MB and software makers to get theor act together..

AMD tends to announce things 6-12 months before they are ready,
and do not yet exist..

just because INTEL has not commented on Northwood dows not mean it is not already here...

those of us with agreements with INTEL and others just cannot disclose too much especially regarding performance,
which TOM found out when INTEL levied their legal machine on him and he has hated them even since..

hope these facts are enjoyed by some anyway

best
CAMERON

CYBERIMAGE
<A HREF="http://www.4CyberImage.com " target="_new">http://www.4CyberImage.com </A>
Ultra High Performance Computers-
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 27, 2001 10:58:28 AM

Damn rights. Good to have you back Cyber.

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=red>Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It.</font color=red> :lol: 
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 27, 2001 11:02:20 AM

thanks for the kind words... good to be back..

someone has to shed the light onto these cult infested
AMD finantics that... like the OMISH ...refused to
use superior technology :) ))

CAMERON

CYBERIMAGE
<A HREF="http://www.4CyberImage.com " target="_new">http://www.4CyberImage.com </A>
Ultra High Performance Computers-
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 27, 2001 11:06:33 AM

Ya there are crack baby monkey brained gimpy lemmings. Hmm thats sounds so nice to say make me feel soo evil.

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=red>Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It.</font color=red> :lol: 
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 27, 2001 11:21:22 AM

I hear that :)  he he

hey check out our new Webpage entrance, we designed it
in dreamweaver and FP 2000 !!
uses some java, and Midi too...
let me know what you think
pretty cool though
best
CAMERON

CYBERIMAGE
<A HREF="http://www.4CyberImage.com " target="_new">http://www.4CyberImage.com </A>
Ultra High Performance Computers-
April 27, 2001 12:47:19 PM

My personal opinion is that I will wait until its matured a bit to make sure that all the kinks have been worked out before I buy.

One thing I would like to see though is dual DDR channels like the i840 and i850 rambus channels.. don't know if its doable but I still want to see it..
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 27, 2001 2:23:12 PM

I would seriously wait to invest in a P4 until they come out with the DDR chipset in 3 months time.
April 27, 2001 4:02:22 PM

"the difference between INTEL and AMD future products is
INTEL does not comment on future CPU's but has them sitting on the shelf already and up and running, waiting for MB and software makers to get theor act together.."

YEAH RIGHT! Intel has never launched a CPU it could not supply...hmmmmmm Remember the vapor launch of the 1 gig p3. Give me a break, if anyone is guilty of paper launches it is Intel.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
!