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trouble with a couple things, could use some help

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Anonymous
February 24, 2005 8:53:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In the game I'm in the middle of with my neutral human Barbarian:
I found 4 bags of holding in a bones pile and blessed them all,
I've found more artifacts in a single game than I ever have before
(right now I'm switching between +2 Frost Brand and +4 Magicbane, but
I'll probably be using Demonbane more once I get into Ghennom.)
I have +2 grey dragon scale mail, a shield of reflection, 3 amulets of
life saving, and have -9ac without any armor from donating to priests.
(-25 ac with all my armor, going to enchant them some more before going
much further)
I've finished the quest (only the second time ever for me)
I've killed Medusa (also 2nd time ever)
I've gotten to the castle (2nd time ever again)

That's the good parts, here's the trouble:
I have not found a single magic lamp the whole game, nor have gotten a
single wish (and have no permanent light source for Ghennom).
I have not found a single scroll of charging nor have I been able to
write one despite high EXPLevel and luck.
I have not found a single musical instrument, and the Bell of Opening
won't open the castle drawbridge (I thought it would). (question: can
the bell of opening be recharged?- mine only has one use left (of course
I wouldn't use it up if I don't have a scroll of charging and not sure
if it can be recharged anyway)) How can I open the drawbridge without a
musical instrument or a wand or bell of opening? Also, is it safe to
put the bell of opening in a bag of holding?
One another thing: I've searched all over between Level 11 and Medusa'a
level and can't find the portal to fort ludios. I've tried using
potions of object detection and digging around to find vaults I haven't
found, but haven't found it.
Last question: does levitation from the Heart of Ahriman (sp?) wear off
over time if you don't turn it off? I want to make sure I'm safe when
levitating over water.

thanks
Asher


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

More about : trouble couple things

Anonymous
February 24, 2005 8:53:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Minorly spoily.

David Justiss wrote:
[SNIP accomplishments]
> That's the good parts, here's the trouble:
> I have not found a single magic lamp the whole game, nor have gotten
a
> single wish (and have no permanent light source for Ghennom).
Snoop around the castle thoroughly.

> I have not found a single musical instrument, and the Bell of
Opening
> won't open the castle drawbridge (I thought it would). (question: can
> the bell of opening be recharged?- mine only has one use left (of
course
> I wouldn't use it up if I don't have a scroll of charging and not
sure
> if it can be recharged anyway)) How can I open the drawbridge
without a
> musical instrument or a wand or bell of opening? Also, is it safe to
> put the bell of opening in a bag of holding?
I'm pretty sure the Bell can be recharged; I don't believe it can be
placed in a bag of holding (not safely or unsafely, but at all).
There's another way of entering the Castle besides the drawbridge.
There are also methods by which the drawbridge can be destroyed.

> One another thing: I've searched all over between Level 11 and
Medusa'a
> level and can't find the portal to fort ludios. I've tried using
> potions of object detection and digging around to find vaults I
haven't
> found, but haven't found it.
It doesn't exist in every game.

> Last question: does levitation from the Heart of Ahriman (sp?) wear
off
> over time if you don't turn it off? I want to make sure I'm safe when
> levitating over water.
IIRC it doesn't wear off until you toggle it off.

> thanks
> Asher
No problem
>
>
> --
> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 8:53:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:
> I would advise the back entrance;
> you don't have to mess with the bridge, and you can use the WoW
before
> cleaning out the reception committee.


I love the drawbridge. An instrument and a few prayers done ahead of
time (or some patience), and you get instakill after instakill after
instakill. It's easily the game's most powerful dungeon feature.
Related resources
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 8:53:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Justiss wrote:
>
> I've gotten to the castle (2nd time ever again)

This solves most of the issues below. There is a source
of wishes in there. If you have levitation or magical
breathing there is no need to go in the front door.

> I have not found a single magic lamp the whole game, nor have gotten
a
> single wish (and have no permanent light source for Ghennom).
> I have not found a single scroll of charging nor have I been able to
> write one despite high EXPLevel and luck.
> I have not found a single musical instrument

All handled by what's in the Castle. I'm not big on
using light sources when playing combat wombats. A
bit of planning for retreat paths and I generally don't
need light.

> and the Bell of Opening
> won't open the castle drawbridge (I thought it would). (question: can
> the bell of opening be recharged?- mine only has one use left (of
course
> I wouldn't use it up if I don't have a scroll of charging and not
sure
> if it can be recharged anyway))

I don't know if the BoO can be recharged and I have'nt
looked it up. It is an item with a special purpose so
I do not use it except for that special purpose.

> How can I open the drawbridge without a
> musical instrument or a wand or bell of opening?

Assorted spells can do it various ways. Some ways have
other requirements that are created.

> Also, is it safe to
> put the bell of opening in a bag of holding?

It's safe to try but it won't go into the bag.

> One another thing: I've searched all over between Level 11 and
Medusa'a
> level and can't find the portal to fort ludios. I've tried using
> potions of object detection and digging around to find vaults I
haven't
> found, but haven't found it.

Ludios is not guaranteed to exist. If have located all
vaults on the possible levels, that's all.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 8:53:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

micromoog@cox.net wrote:

> David Damerell wrote:
>> I would advise the back entrance;
>> you don't have to mess with the bridge, and you can use the WoW before
>> cleaning out the reception committee.
>
> I love the drawbridge. An instrument and a few prayers done ahead of
> time (or some patience), and you get instakill after instakill after
> instakill. It's easily the game's most powerful dungeon feature.

Masterminding the bridge down takes very little patience. It can be solved
with even a fairly dumb algorithm in no more than 16 tries, which probably
requires much less patience than the praying you mention.

I love playing with the drawbridge too, especially if there are any
disenchanters or liches in the castle foyer.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 8:53:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> Masterminding the bridge down takes very little patience. It can be
solved
> with even a fairly dumb algorithm in no more than 16 tries, which
probably
> requires much less patience than the praying you mention.


I didn't realize it was quite that easy. I've never tried it, which
shows just how little patience I've got :) 

I think I've already prayed enough to get the tune, though, every time
I've reached the Castle. Maybe I pray too much, but I just can't get
enough spellbooks and golden glows.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 9:22:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> 2. I *never* use the drawbridge as a guillotine. Granted, it kills
the
> monsters easily. Unfortunately, it also destroys all their equipment,
> including very useful wands, armour, etc.


Yeah, I probably lose a lot of good wands that way. But I just can't
get enough of that "You hear smashing and crushing" message,
particularly when it applies to liches.

It's also a rare opportunity to use a dungeon feature in a very active
way. Most other features are more like scenery, with poly traps being
a notable exception.
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 9:32:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

begin quoting David Justiss <dajustis@hotmail.com>:
> I've found more artifacts in a single game than I ever have before
>(right now I'm switching between +2 Frost Brand and +4 Magicbane, but
>I'll probably be using Demonbane more once I get into Ghennom.)

No point except on cold-resistant demons... of which there are a few.

> I have not found a single musical instrument, and the Bell of Opening
>won't open the castle drawbridge (I thought it would). (question: can
>the bell of opening be recharged?

Yes. One game I reached the vibrating square only to realise that a
previous autocancellation had uncharged the Bell, and had to burn my magic
lamp on an 80% chance of scrolls of charging.

>if it can be recharged anyway)) How can I open the drawbridge without a
>musical instrument or a wand or bell of opening?

Wand of striking or force bolt spell.

>Also, is it safe to put the bell of opening in a bag of holding?

It's safe to attempt it. You can't do it.

> One another thing: I've searched all over between Level 11 and Medusa'a
>level and can't find the portal to fort ludios. I've tried using
>potions of object detection and digging around to find vaults I haven't
>found, but haven't found it.

It is not guaranteed to exist.

> Last question: does levitation from the Heart of Ahriman (sp?) wear off
>over time if you don't turn it off? I want to make sure I'm safe when
>levitating over water.

The source and wizmode say not. Hence, I would advise the back entrance;
you don't have to mess with the bridge, and you can use the WoW before
cleaning out the reception committee.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Gouday, February.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 2:35:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Justiss wrote:

> I've found more artifacts in a single game than I ever have before
> (right now I'm switching between +2 Frost Brand and +4 Magicbane, but
> I'll probably be using Demonbane more once I get into Ghennom.)

Whay did you enchant Magicbane above +2? It gets worse when you do that.
You could have used those scrolls on Frost Brand. In Gehennom, I would
still use the Frost Brand. It's almost as effective on demons (if not
more effective, I'm not sure), and it's *much* more effective on
everything else.

> I have +2 grey dragon scale mail, a shield of reflection, 3 amulets
> of life saving, and have -9ac without any armor from donating to
> priests. (-25 ac with all my armor, going to enchant them some more
> before going much further)

-9 AC?

Do you mean that when you're not wearing anything, you have AC+1 or
AC-9?
The latter would be *very* impressive, the first is normal by the time
you reach the Castle.

> I've gotten to the castle (2nd time ever again)

> I have not found a single scroll of charging nor have I been able to
> write one despite high EXPLevel and luck.

Well, since you haven't found the wand of wishing yet, this hardly
matters. Once you find it, your first wish should be for 2 blessed
scrolls of charging.

> I have not found a single musical instrument, and the Bell of Opening
> won't open the castle drawbridge (I thought it would).

I would also have assumed it did. Strange.

> (question: can the bell of opening be recharged?-

If I recall correctly, it can. If you want to be sure, start a game in
wizard mode, and try it out yourself.

> mine only has one use left (of
> course I wouldn't use it up if I don't have a scroll of charging and
> not sure if it can be recharged anyway)) How can I open the
> drawbridge without a musical instrument or a wand or bell of opening?

I don't think you can, but others will undoubtably correct me.

> Also, is it safe to put the bell of opening in a bag of holding?

Try it. No harm will come to you, I promise. This will learn you a trick
about how to recognise the Bell, the Candelabrum, the Book, and the Real
Amulet.

> One another thing: I've searched all over between Level 11 and
> Medusa'a level and can't find the portal to fort ludios. I've tried
> using potions of object detection and digging around to find vaults I
> haven't found, but haven't found it.

Ludios does not exist in every game.

> to find vaults I haven't found, but haven't found it.

I had to read that three times before I understood what you meant, by
the way.

> Last question: does levitation from the Heart of Ahriman (sp?) wear
> off over time if you don't turn it off? I want to make sure I'm safe
> when levitating over water.

I believe you have to #invoke it again to turn it off, or use the <down>
command to float down.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 2:36:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
> David Justiss wrote:
>
> > I have not found a single musical instrument, and the Bell of Opening
> > won't open the castle drawbridge (I thought it would).
>
> I would also have assumed it did. Strange.

It does, but only if blessed.

> > mine only has one use left (of course I wouldn't use it up if I
> > don't have a scroll of charging and not sure if it can be
> > recharged anyway)) How can I open the drawbridge without a musical
> > instrument or a wand or bell of opening?
>
> I don't think you can, but others will undoubtably correct me.

A spell of knock will also work. (There are other ways if you're not
worried about keeping the drawbridge intact.)

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with :
: locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / :
: To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] :
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 2:44:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell unsuccessfully tried to hide:
> begin quoting David Justiss <dajustis@hotmail.com>:

> No point except on cold-resistant demons... of which there are a few.

Agreed. I wouldn't even take Demonbane with me because of the added
weight.

> Yes. One game I reached the vibrating square only to realise that a
> previous autocancellation had uncharged the Bell, and had to burn my
magic
> lamp on an 80% chance of scrolls of charging.

Dit it work?

>> if it can be recharged anyway)) How can I open the drawbridge
without a
>> musical instrument or a wand or bell of opening?

> Wand of striking or force bolt spell.

If you call destroying "opening", this indeed works.

>> Last question: does levitation from the Heart of Ahriman (sp?) wear
>> off over time if you don't turn it off? I want to make sure I'm safe
>> when levitating over water.

> The source and wizmode say not. Hence, I would advise the back
> entrance; you don't have to mess with the bridge, and you can use
> the WoW before cleaning out the reception committee.

Not really. You still have to pass the middle chamber to get at the wand
of wishing, and several monster are able to open the doors of the
corridor between the first room and the middle room, so the "reception
committee" will be waiting for you in the middle room.

Agreed, you could open the secret door, back away, and let the committee
fall into a trap door. Then you could indeed get the wand first, and
deal with the committee later, in the Valley.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 2:46:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

micromoog wrote:
> David Damerell wrote:

>> I would advise the back entrance;
>> you don't have to mess with the bridge, and you can use the WoW
>> before cleaning out the reception committee.

> I love the drawbridge. An instrument and a few prayers done ahead of
> time (or some patience), and you get instakill after instakill after
> instakill. It's easily the game's most powerful dungeon feature.

1. The original poster's problem was that he didn't *have* a musical
instrument.

2. I *never* use the drawbridge as a guillotine. Granted, it kills the
monsters easily. Unfortunately, it also destroys all their equipment,
including very useful wands, armour, etc.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 2:52:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Justiss wrote:

> How can I open the drawbridge without a musical instrument or a wand
> or bell of opening?

See my previous message.

What I forgot to mention is that you're better off taking the back door,
but others have mentioned that as well.

What those others failed to mention was that, just like the Medusa
level, there is a big danger: the eels that might be in the moat. Use
the same tricks to defeat them as you did on the Medusa level: pick up
some rocks somewhere, or create them by pickaxing a boulder, and throw
them to death. Check with telepathy to be sure there aren't any left
before you walk around the Castle.

Even if you take the front entrance, kill the eels before you step on
any square next to the moat. The place where you step out of the little
maze on the left and into the open space where the drawbridge is is also
a dangerous spot in this regard. When I first enter that open space, I
usually dig a hole in the middle of the wall to make sure I don't have
to step next to the water.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 5:38:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Yes. One game I reached the vibrating square only to realise that a
> previous autocancellation had uncharged the Bell, and had to burn my magic
> lamp on an 80% chance of scrolls of charging.

Why not use it for an 80% chance of a blessed magic marker? Or were you
out of paper?

--
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is
not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they
are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them
as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 6:07:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,misc.misc (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> When my HP are reasonable, I like to use boulders
> as steamwalzes in the mines, crushing multiple
> Gnomes in one go...

Oh, wow! That brings to mind a whole new game abuse:

Pudding farming on a level with a boulder trap!

You wouldn't even _want_ an altar; just the PC does
the splitting, and the boulder trap does the
killing.

That makes it theoretically possible to combine the
protection racket with pudding farming, since IIRC
splitting a pudding doesn't convey XPs. Ignore the
stuff on the trap trigger, focus on grabbing stuff
dropped elsewhere on the boulder's path, keep the
puddings sparse enough that there _are_ safe times
to do such grabbing. Once enough healing potions
have been consumed, the PC can clean the trigger
point too. I really _want_ to see an XL:1 character
with triple digit HP and PW stats, who's never been
level drained.

I wonder, can you drag stuff horizontally with a
grappling hook? That tool would suddenly become
highly cherished if this madness worked!

xanthian, waiting to hear reports back from our
nobel researchers in the field...

[With my luck, puddings don't even trigger boulder
traps.]
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 11:59:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"David Justiss" <dajustis@hotmail.com> writes:

> In the game I'm in the middle of with my neutral human Barbarian:
> I found 4 bags of holding in a bones pile and blessed them all,

I'd drop all but one. It's just desaster hanging around and
waiting to happen.

> I've found more artifacts in a single game than I ever have before
> (right now I'm switching between +2 Frost Brand and +4 Magicbane, but
> I'll probably be using Demonbane more once I get into Ghennom.)

I'd avise FB; only few monsters in Gehennom are cold-resistant.
Usually, FB ranks right behind GSw as weapon of choice.

> I have +2 grey dragon scale mail, a shield of reflection, 3 amulets of
> life saving, and have -9ac without any armor from donating to priests.
> (-25 ac with all my armor, going to enchant them some more before going
> much further)
> I've finished the quest (only the second time ever for me)
> I've killed Medusa (also 2nd time ever)
> I've gotten to the castle (2nd time ever again)

Nice going.

> That's the good parts, here's the trouble:
> I have not found a single magic lamp the whole game, nor have gotten a
> single wish (and have no permanent light source for Ghennom).

That's pretty standard, is't it?

Besides, you have low AC, reflection and MR; the only thing
you still need IMO is speed. [GoP, for instance, are not that
important, since you get the same to-Hit/Damage Boni for
Str 18/** as for Str 25. So keep feasting on that giants.]

> I have not found a single scroll of charging nor have I been able to
> write one despite high EXPLevel and luck.

You additionally had a magic marker? You really don't need
more wishes, I think..

> I have not found a single musical instrument, and the Bell of Opening
> won't open the castle drawbridge (I thought it would).

It should, but you would have to stand at the right place maybe.

> (question: can
> the bell of opening be recharged?- mine only has one use left (of course
> I wouldn't use it up if I don't have a scroll of charging and not sure
> if it can be recharged anyway)) How can I open the drawbridge without a
> musical instrument or a wand or bell of opening?

It may be more elegant to come from behind. Anyway, there are
some wands that might help.

> Also, is it safe to
> put the bell of opening in a bag of holding?

It won't allow to be stashed away.

> One another thing: I've searched all over between Level 11 and Medusa'a
> level and can't find the portal to fort ludios.

Then it might not exist in your game. However, you already have low
naked AC and GDSM, so the main purposes (at least for me) of visiting
Ludios are void.

> Last question: does levitation from the Heart of Ahriman (sp?) wear off
> over time if you don't turn it off?

No.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 12:16:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

micromoog@cox.net wrote:

> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>> 2. I *never* use the drawbridge as a guillotine. Granted, it kills the
>> monsters easily. Unfortunately, it also destroys all their equipment,
>> including very useful wands, armour, etc.
>
> Yeah, I probably lose a lot of good wands that way. But I just can't
> get enough of that "You hear smashing and crushing" message,
> particularly when it applies to liches.

Indeed; and usually by this point I have more useful wands, armor,
etc. than I can possibly use. Even if not, there is plenty to be found in
Gehennom.

Still, I generally just use this for the liches and disenchanters, assuming
I haven't genocided them. I usually play combat-oriented characters, who
have no trouble whacking everything else that comes across the bridge.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 2:11:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

micromoog wrote:

> It's also a rare opportunity to use a dungeon feature in a very active
> way. Most other features are more like scenery, with poly traps being
> a notable exception.

When my HP are reasonable, I like to use boulders as steamwalzes in the
mines, crushing multiple Gnomes in one go...

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 2:14:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> "David Justiss" <dajustis@hotmail.com> writes:

>> Last question: does levitation from the Heart of Ahriman (sp?) wear
>> off over time if you don't turn it off?

> No.

I think it does when you cross a sink, but you might reason that in that
case, you're also turning it off yourself.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 5:39:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

begin quoting Jesse Meyer <meyer_spammenot_@ideaone.net>:
>David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>Yes. One game I reached the vibrating square only to realise that a
>>previous autocancellation had uncharged the Bell, and had to burn my magic
>>lamp on an 80% chance of scrolls of charging.
>Why not use it for an 80% chance of a blessed magic marker? Or were you
>out of paper?

I didn't have any with me, and I didn't fancy recovering to my stash; I
hadn't then learned to make excessive use of controlled levtele.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Chedday, February.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 7:14:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Thanks for the help. I didn't know there was a back entrance to
the castle. I also didn't think it would be as easy as a wand of
striking or force bolt. (no I don't care about destroying the bridge).
Now I can't put down conquering Fort Ludios as one of my
accomplishments,
oh well. Killing Orcus would make up for it. (The one time before when
I got into Ghennom I got killed by Orcus- the wand of death is no
problem but he's pretty tough without it too.) Oh yeah, thought of
another question, how do you kill these demon princes that regenerate so
fast? (I never fought any but Orcus and Juiblex (and Yeenoghu but that
was long before Ghennom), but I remember how tough they were from
wizard mode). Juiblex was relatively easy.

BTW, my magicbane was +1 when I found it, I used a blessed scroll of
enchant weapon thinking it would get it to +3 which is almost as good
as +2, but it went from +1 to +4. (I had blessed all my scrolls of
enchant weapon so I didn't have an uncursed one, I would have found one
before very long but thought +3 would be pretty much just as good)

"Dylan O'Donnell" <psmithnews@spod-central.org> wrote in message
news:86bra9o7i7.fsf@strackenz.spod-central.org

> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
> > David Justiss wrote:
> > > How can I open the drawbridge without a musical
> > > instrument or a wand or bell of opening?
> >
> > I don't think you can, but others will undoubtably correct me.
>
> A spell of knock will also work. (There are other ways if you're not
> worried about keeping the drawbridge intact.)




--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 8:34:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:

[it works]

Ah, thanks for the test run! The puddings _do_
trigger the traps! Yay!

> So, I've run that game for around 2000 turns
> (including the ones for digging the entire level)
> where I accidentaly killed a pudding (thus going
> to level 2).

So, as I was hoping, doing this and staying at XL:1
is "possible in theory", and only a matter of
error-free playing, as for any conduct, stands in
the way of doing it in practice.

> There was 54 black pudding corpes lying in the
> path of the boulder, plus the one I killed.

> But no object. Either they don't leave one when
> killed by a boulder or I didn't ha[ve] the
> patience to do proper farming for long enough.

As noted elsewhere, the spoils of pudding farming
are sparse but steady, pudding kills in the
thousands and tens of thousands are where the loot
starts to accumulate, not in the tens of puddings.

It would be nice to confirm _one_ death dropped
item, though, to be sure that part works.

Now if only there were a "set your own rolling
boulder trap" trick in regular play mode. Oh, well,
nothing says this should be easy.

Too bad those bigotted quest leaders will look at an
XL:1, HP:4000, PW:3000 AC:-128 PC with all
intrinsics(*), and say "but you're not _ready_ for
the quest yet".

Ascending at an undrained XL:1 would be such a kick.

xanthian.

(*) From eating stuff killed by Puddin' Tame or
other large pet.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 9:35:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
> > When my HP are reasonable, I like to use boulders
> > as steamwalzes in the mines, crushing multiple
> > Gnomes in one go...
>
> Oh, wow! That brings to mind a whole new game abuse:
>
> Pudding farming on a level with a boulder trap!

I'm just trying to wizard-mode one, and it seems to work oncreadibly well!

Status of the black pudding (neutral): Level 9 HP 33(52) AC 6.
The black pudding divides as you hit it!
Your dagger is not affected.
The black pudding turns to flee!
The black pudding turns to flee!
The black pudding turns to flee!
The black pudding turns to flee!
Click! The black pudding triggers a rolling boulder trap.
The boulder hits the black pudding!
The boulder hits the black pudding!
The boulder hits the black pudding!
The boulder hits the black pudding!
The boulder hits the black pudding!
The boulder hits the black pudding!
The black pudding is killed!
The boulder hits the black pudding!

> You wouldn't even _want_ an altar; just the PC does
> the splitting, and the boulder trap does the
> killing.

Actually, I think you can even do better:
Grab a handfull of -3 (cursed) daggers.
Spread them across the farm.
Call in some puddings.
Call in some appropriate monsters that will wield the daggers and are able
to hit the puddings (goblin and orcs I've just tried seem a lot too weak).
Go on your E-square (next to the rolling boulder trap line of fire) and
put on that ring of conflict.
Let those monsters become farmers for your own profit!

You probably want to regularly call in new farmers as you don't want to
many of them because they might use your hard-earned (hum) pudding spoils.

And oh, by the way, get a bullwhip so you can apply it and start grabing
stuff without even leaving you're E-square.


> That makes it theoretically possible to combine the
> protection racket with pudding farming, since IIRC
> splitting a pudding doesn't convey XPs. Ignore the
> stuff on the trap trigger, focus on grabbing stuff
> dropped elsewhere on the boulder's path, keep the
> puddings sparse enough that there _are_ safe times
> to do such grabbing. Once enough healing potions
> have been consumed, the PC can clean the trigger
> point too. I really _want_ to see an XL:1 character
> with triple digit HP and PW stats, who's never been
> level drained.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 10:10:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Jym wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
>
> > Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> >
> > > When my HP are reasonable, I like to use boulders
> > > as steamwalzes in the mines, crushing multiple
> > > Gnomes in one go...
> >
> > Oh, wow! That brings to mind a whole new game abuse:
> >
> > Pudding farming on a level with a boulder trap!
>
> I'm just trying to wizard-mode one, and it seems to work oncreadibly well!

So, I've run that game for around 2000 turns (including the ones for
digging the entire level) where I accidentaly killed a pudding (thus going
to level 2).

There was 54 black pudding corpes lying in the path of the boulder, plus
the one I killed.

But no object. Either they don't leave one when killed by a boulder or I
didn't had the patience to do proper farming for long enough.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
February 25, 2005 10:18:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <c635b92036fddda3aec41c95335125be.119979@mygate.mailgate.org>,
David Justiss <dajustis@hotmail.com> wrote:

>oh well. Killing Orcus would make up for it. (The one time before when
>I got into Ghennom I got killed by Orcus- the wand of death is no
>problem but he's pretty tough without it too.)

Especially if he calls friends. I remembered to do a couple of things
this time in hell, one being to blessed genocide mimics, and the other
being to fight Orcus from the stairs. I was just looking through the
stuff I brought back, and was surprised to find the /oDeath named Orcus
at 0:6!

>another question, how do you kill these demon princes that regenerate so
>fast?

+7 Stormy and +6 longbow with +7 arrows made quick work of everyone I
met. I wonder if it's still possible to get Demogorgon into my game
(don't think so.)
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 5:29:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> David Justiss wrote:

>>One another thing: I've searched all over between Level 11 and
>>Medusa'a level and can't find the portal to fort ludios. I've tried
>>using potions of object detection and digging around to find vaults I
>>haven't found, but haven't found it.

> Ludios does not exist in every game.

Ludios exist in every game.

The portal to Ludios does not exist in every game.

Topi
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 8:06:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Topi Linkala wrote:
>> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

>>> Ludios does not exist in every game.

>> Ludios exist in every game.
>> The portal to Ludios does not exist in every game.

> Let's call it Schroedinger's Level.

> A level number is assigned to it at game start, but for me that
doesn't
> mean the level exists.

> To me, it only exists once it has been created in the playground
> directory.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 8:10:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Topi Linkala wrote:
>> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

>>> Ludios does not exist in every game.

>> Ludios exist in every game.
>> The portal to Ludios does not exist in every game.

> Let's call it Schroedinger's Level.

> A level number is assigned to it at game start,
> but for me that doesn't mean the level exists.

> To me, it only exists once it has been created in
> the playground directory.

Is the issue that it only exists _for the player_ if
a vault gets created on the pre-chosen level, or
something else?

If having a vault is the issue, the problem could be
addressed in part by a patch upping the number of
tries to put a new room on a level before quitting
and putting in the passageways, to about ten times
its current value; newer computers would still never
notice the time required, and the richness of levels
would increase, giving a better chance for vaults to
occur, and thus for Ludios to be accessible.

FWIW

xanthian.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 8:31:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,misc.misc (More info?)

Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
> Jym wrote:

> [it works]

> Ah, thanks for the test run! The puddings _do_
> trigger the traps! Yay!

As long as we're speculating, I wonder if the
same scam would work for a dug-out level with
fountains, a boulder trap, and gremlins instead
of puddings? I haven't heard anyone mention
gremlin farming so far, maybe they don't heal
up hitpoints so nicely as puddings do? Nice part
about doing it with gremlins is, you don't even
have to do the splitting, that's automatic too.
Do they drop stuff, though?

xanthian.

Your PC with a =oSD locks himself in a closet,
counts slowly to 100,000 with occasional snacks,
unlocks the closet, blows away a level-full of
gremlins, and picks up his ascension kit. -- more --
Do you want to see your first place on the high
score table now? [yn]

[Don't do this at home in the dark, kiddies.]
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 1:22:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,misc.misc (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

>> Your PC with a =oSD locks himself in a closet,
>> counts slowly to 100,000 with occasional snacks,
>> unlocks the closet, blows away a level-full of
>> gremlins, and picks up his ascension kit. -- more --
>> Do you want to see your first place on the high
>> score table now? [yn]

> You're not suggesting that, even with a fully
> fledged ascension kit, *you* would be able to
> ascend, are you?

Were I to ascend, Obi Wan NetHack would feel a great
disturbance in The Force. It would be the universe,
collapsing in disarray.

I wouldn't go out and buy "collapse insurance" just
yet.

HTH

xanthian.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 2:34:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Topi Linkala wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

>> Ludios does not exist in every game.

> Ludios exist in every game.
> The portal to Ludios does not exist in every game.

Let's call it Schroedinger's Level.

A level number is assigned to it at game start, but for me that doesn't
mean the level exists.


To me, it only exists once it has been created in the playground
directory.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 5:37:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

> Your PC with a =oSD locks himself in a closet,
> counts slowly to 100,000 with occasional snacks,
> unlocks the closet, blows away a level-full of
> gremlins, and picks up his ascension kit. -- more --
> Do you want to see your first place on the high
> score table now? [yn]

You're not suggesting that, even with a fully fledged ascension kit,
*you* would be able to ascend, are you?

:-)

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 10:48:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Feb 2005, Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

> Jym wrote:
>
> [it works]
>
> Ah, thanks for the test run! The puddings _do_
> trigger the traps! Yay!

> Now if only there were a "set your own rolling
> boulder trap" trick in regular play mode. Oh, well,
> nothing says this should be easy.

I think rolling boulder traps may quite easily be found in the mines (at
least I often see at least one there). So the stuff should be possible
with a gnomish healer (digging up the level is not a problem as pock-axe
are easily found in the mines, the first black pudding should probably be
brought in via reverse genocide because sinks are obviously not frequent
in the mines).

> Too bad those bigotted quest leaders will look at an
> XL:1, HP:4000, PW:3000 AC:-128 PC with all
> intrinsics(*), and say "but you're not _ready_ for
> the quest yet".

:-)

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 10:50:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005, Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

> Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
> > Jym wrote:
>
> > [it works]
>
> > Ah, thanks for the test run! The puddings _do_
> > trigger the traps! Yay!
>
> As long as we're speculating, I wonder if the
> same scam would work for a dug-out level with
> fountains, a boulder trap, and gremlins instead
> of puddings? I haven't heard anyone mention
> gremlin farming so far, maybe they don't heal
> up hitpoints so nicely as puddings do? Nice part
> about doing it with gremlins is, you don't even
> have to do the splitting, that's automatic too.
> Do they drop stuff, though?

I think the point is that cloning gremlims do half their max HP as well as
their HP (must be checked), so that's the reason why gremlins farming as
appealing as it can be, cannot be done in practice.

Plus, they may also be smaller creatures than puddings and thus not able
to drop the same stuff.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 1:51:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:

> I think rolling boulder traps may quite easily be found in the mines
> (at least I often see at least one there). [...] the first black
> pudding should probably be brought in via reverse genocide because
> sinks are obviously not frequent in the mines).

How easily found are cursed scrolls of genocide in your games?

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 8:46:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> Jym wrote:
>
> > I think rolling boulder traps may quite easily be found in the mines
> > (at least I often see at least one there). [...] the first black
> > pudding should probably be brought in via reverse genocide because
> > sinks are obviously not frequent in the mines).
>
> How easily found are cursed scrolls of genocide in your games?

It depends...

Unholy water is quite easily found. Cursed scroll of something alos (so
cursed blank scrolls). Then, you have to found a scroll of genocide
(in this game, I had 4 before minesend... 1 in a shop a DL 3, 2 in
bonefiles (lucky) and 1 I can't remember where).

I don't think that setting a proper self-trapping pudding trap is
guaranteed when you start, but it may be worth trying if you happen to be
able to do so.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
!