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OH, NO!!! P4 @ 1.7GHz for $395

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  • CPUs
  • AMD
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April 29, 2001 10:00:00 PM

this can't be!!!

as seen on pricewatch.com
<A HREF="http://www.pricewatch.com" target="_new">P4 1.7GHz is < $400 now!</A>

"AMD...you are the weakest link, good bye!"

More about : 7ghz 395

April 29, 2001 11:21:59 PM

And all you need now is that expensive memory, and motherboard, and a new case and powersuppy, because of the amount of current that processor draws.

Ops, sorry, got you wrong again you dork, after all, I thought only AMD systems required special power supplys, so I guess you are wrong yet again. Maybe you should just go away, and stop dribbling crap


Jump, Jump Now!!
April 29, 2001 11:29:31 PM

PC800 RDRAM 256MB total = $186
P4 1.7GHZ = $395
Good P4 motherboard = $159
----------------
Total $740

PC800 RDRAM 256MB total = $186
P4 1.3GHZ = $207
Good P4 motherboard = $159
-----------------
Total $552


AMD Athlon 1.33GHz = $181
PC2100 DDR CAS 2, 256MB total = $186
Decent Athlon DDR motherboard = $140
--------------------
$507


Seems to me a decent Athlon system costs about as much as the P4 system running at about the same clockspeed.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Related resources
April 29, 2001 11:50:16 PM

Sorry to inform you, but you do remember that, especially with the release of the P4, that the clockspeed is becoming less of a factor in the <b> true </b> speed of the system. When benched, an AMD 1.33GHz beats the pants off a P4 1.5GHz in gaming, and is neck and neck with the P4 1.7GHz. And the P4 1.3GHz that you posted at $552 won't even beat out a AMD 1.0GHz in most anything. So, to get a comperable system to the AMD that you posted, you'd have get the P4 1.7GHz and spend nearly $240 more. Also, you neglect to mention that the current incarnation of the P4 was DOA, as this fall, it will be replaced by the <i> real </i> P4, which will have no compatibility with the current motherboards. So, if you want a real P4 with the actual speed that 2GHz should give you for the price that it will cost, you're better off waiting until the fall release of the Northwood and Brookdale. And to those who will jump on me for getting timelines wrong, or some type of speed rating, or some other pointless info, big deal, and it really doesn't make a dime's worth of difference to the advice herein. All in all, don't buy a P4 that isn't for the Northwood or Brookdale, cause your ability to upgrade later will be nil, and the money you spend would do better in a bank, collecting interest to get the real P4 later on.
That's my $0.02.

-SammyBoy

Without Evil, there can be no Good. Therefore, without an Intel, there can be no AMD.
April 29, 2001 11:56:39 PM

hey now dont kill the messenger just reporting on the g :smile: :smile: dness.

face it, you're just a frustrated lemming, get over it.

"AMD...you are the weakest link, good bye!"
April 29, 2001 11:59:47 PM

Quote:
PC2100 DDR CAS 2, 256MB total = $186

where the hell is that price from? get crucial: $115 for 256 PC2100 CAS2 shipped free. that drops the athlon price down to $436, and thats a hell of a lot cheaper for something that performs as well or better than the P4 1.7ghz. besides who are you kidding, if you like to spend you money on more expensive, yet slower components, thats your own business.
oh yea and the cheapest price for PC800 RDRAM on pricewatch is $227, where did you get $186? quit makin up sh!t when you post, then we might start believing you.

<A HREF="http://www.512productions.com/lobstermagnet/" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
April 30, 2001 12:43:33 AM

"where the hell is that price from? get crucial: $115 for 256 PC2100 CAS2 shipped free."

Crucial doesn't sell PC2100 CAS2 DDR memory. Check your facts.

"cheapest price for PC800 RDRAM on pricewatch is $227, where did you get $186? quit makin up sh!t when you post, then we might start believing you."

Once again, check your facts. For 256MB of total memory you purchase 2 memory module of 128MB each. These are $93 each.

This is the second time you've sent out some nasty flames with a personal attack based on false data. You aren't looking very good right now.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 30, 2001 12:45:03 AM

"you're better off waiting until the fall release of the Northwood and Brookdale"

I agree for those of us who plan on upgrading our cpu within about 1-1.5 years of purchase. For those who plan on keeping their CPU for 2-3 years though, keeping the motherboard becomes highly unlikely anyway.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 30, 2001 2:10:14 AM

Quote:
"you're better off waiting until the fall release of the Northwood and Brookdale"

I agree for those of us who plan on upgrading our cpu within about 1-1.5 years of purchase. For those who plan on keeping their CPU for 2-3 years though, keeping the motherboard becomes highly unlikely anyway.

Actually, if you read the whole post, and in context, you will see that I am not arguing about the upgradability, but I'm arguing against the whole idea of purchasing a P4 in its current incarnation. I see spending $300+ on a chip that isn't the real thing that is not living up to its advertised GHz (okay, I know the formula for the GHz rating, but I'm saying that chips of lower speed and earlier technology are still comperable to it, despite the increased GHz) as a waste of hard earned money. If you truly want a P4 system, and you want it the way it should be, there is no way to do it but to get the Northwood or Brookdale version, as they won't be a castrated version, like the one selling today is.

Intel made a big mistake in wanting to get the P4 out ASAP. By doing that, they have garnered much negative press concerning the price and performance of it. What Intel forgot is that people now are informed, no longer confined to tangible sources of news. They have the internet, and on the 'net, the P4 was flamed by many, mostly for it's outragous initial price. People research with the 'net now, and for many, instead of getting their first computer, are onto number two or three, and know people who also have computers; ergo, they know what they are looking for; they are "experienced". The P4 as it is leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many, and by releasing a poorly planned "dumbed-down" version of the P4, Intel has soiled the name, and too many people out there know about it. People will tell you, and I'm sure Intel would too, after the Northwood and Brookdale are out and selling, that they [Intel] blundered when releasing the P4 when they did.

Now, the tech savvy people we are know better and know that the current P4 is just not what it should be. I see the real P4 as kicking the T-Bird's ass, just because of the high clock speed, not to mention the SSE2, if it is ever used by developers and brought into the mainstream. Face it, the P4 the we know today really sucks compared to what it should be, and what it was touted to be (that Net Burst BS really makes me laugh). The P4 that is relased later on should be a mad, code crunching machine that will probably run circles around the T-bird.

But, if you're like me, and <i> need </i> a new system soon, you're kinda screwed. The P3 is at the end; the 1.13GHz, if it is stable, will be the last P3, and Intel will slowly pull the plug on it. The T-bird will be phased out this summer in favor of the Palomino, and there is the hope that the Palomino will run just as well on the current T-bird motherboards, but only time will tell. So, you have a choice to make. You can either go all out and buy a bleeding edge P3 or T-bird system, or keep waiting until the Palomino and <b> <i> true </i> </b> P4 are out and see how the two compare. But I implore all who wish to upgrade soon <b> avoid the current, castrated, fake, and "dumbed-down" version of the P4 </b>. It is a failed processor, dead on arrival, and all it will do is offer you pain and hardship as you realize that cheaper, "slower" AMDs are killing you, and the new 1.13GHz P3 (if it scales as well as the rest) beats you as well. So don't do it. Don't buy the P4, unless it's the Northwood or Brookdale version. Just don't get it. It's not worth the money, the time, or the effort. Wait for the real P4 and you will be very happy, and it will last you a long time, as we all know that a 2GHz CPU is at least 1.2GHz more than you need right now, and will easily last you for at least 2 years.

-SammyBoy

Without Evil, there can be no Good. Therefore, without an Intel, there can be no AMD.
April 30, 2001 2:15:08 AM

Do to the serial nature of Rambus aren't you better off with one stick at 256? Or does this not become an issue until considering the third and forth stick? And, have you noticed DDR Ram cas 2 is dropping....how many weeks I got left on my bet...4?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
April 30, 2001 2:22:02 AM

"Do to the serial nature of Rambus aren't you better off with one stick at 256?"

It must be installed in pairs. You install one module in each channel. The channels operate in parallel with each other. You get additional latency when you install more than one module on the same channel.

"have you noticed DDR Ram cas 2 is dropping....how many weeks I got left on my bet...4?"

Yes I've noticed. It's currently the same price as PC800 RDRAM.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 30, 2001 2:36:47 AM

"The channels operate in parallel with each other"

Ok then, slots 1 and two each have ther own channel ( dual channel IE. parrelel?) Then slots 3 and 4 operate in series with there perspective slots 1 and two. Occupying slots 1 and 2 give you optimal performance, but adding additional memory increases latency correct?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
April 30, 2001 2:45:06 AM

Correct. About 5ns of additional latency for adding the last two modules.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2001 3:24:19 AM

crucial sells 256 mb pc2100 2.5 for $115.19
April 30, 2001 3:26:16 AM

We are talking cas2 not cas 2.5. Cas2 is very new and slightly faster.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
April 30, 2001 3:34:18 AM

.5 / 2.5 = 20% faster ;) 

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 30, 2001 3:52:41 AM

a thunderbird 1.33ghz system with cas2.5 memory will still outperform a p4 1.7ghz system with rdram, so i still dont see why you need cas2 memory when cas2.5 is $70 cheaper. and besides, you can most likely get a good stick of crucial and run it at cas2 even though its only rated at 2.5, thats what i do with my current memory, and although im aware that ddr is more sensitive, i still think it can be done.

<A HREF="http://www.512productions.com/lobstermagnet/" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
April 30, 2001 3:59:34 AM

"a thunderbird 1.33ghz system with cas2.5 memory will still outperform a p4 1.7ghz system with rdram"

Not true. I notice you didn't bother supplying any benchmark scores where they use CAS2.5 memory. (There aren't any, all reviewers have been using CAS2 in benchmarks for almost 6 months now.)

"run it at cas2 even though its only rated at 2.5"

I'm not really discussing overclocking. You can most likely overclock just about any memory technology. But I prefer stability thanks. Memory is never 'underclocked' by manufacturers like CPUs can be. Anything that fails the CAS2 tests is sold as CAS2.5. Anything failing CAS2.5 tests is sold as CAS3. Anything failing CAS3 tests is thrown out. Because of this, it's inherently unsafe to overclock the CAS settings on memory. Most likely your ram was sold as CAS2.5 for a reason: It failed the CAS 2 test. Overclocking it can lead to random crashes and lockups without a clear pattern as to what's causing it.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 30, 2001 4:22:08 AM

"<font color=red>Anything that fails the CAS2 tests is sold as CAS2.5. Anything failing CAS2.5 tests is sold as CAS3. Anything failing CAS3 tests is thrown out. Because of this, it's inherently unsafe to overclock the CAS settings on memory. Most likely your ram was sold as CAS2.5 for a reason: It failed the CAS 2 test. Overclocking it can lead to random crashes and lockups without a clear pattern as to what's causing it.</font color=red>"

Very true right now, most users that "overclock" there DDR memory ( or would it be underclock??) also have to up the voltage to it. However, as right as you may be now, that anolagy does not always hold up.

For instance, a culling procedure like this was used by intel when determining the p3 ( coppermines) and the celeron ( they are the same chip) A P3 that did not make the grade had half its cache disabled and was made a Celeron. But, as the yields got better and more and more P3's were made they had less and less bad p3's to cull down to the celeron level. But, the demand for the celeron still was there, so to fill this demand perfectly good p3's were used for celeron's as well. Something of the same applies for the Athlon as well, if a particular batch of processors all test good at say 900 mhz, but they need to fill a need for 800's some perfectly good 900's might be clocked as 800's to fill this need. the trouble with this is you just never know and it is all hit and miss from the buyers perspective. However, I sincerly doubt, AT THIS TIME, that any good cas2 ddr ram is filtering down to cas 2.5 level.

Also, in reply to 2 being 20 percent faster than 2.5, only on paper :)  It might be that much faster alone but the increase in total system performance won't be 20% maybe if lucky 5%-10%.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
April 30, 2001 4:27:20 AM

Blah Blah Blah... Who frocking cares already! You people act like your defending your Mothers or something. This topic can only be fought over so many damn times then it becomes VERY repeatitive! Talk about other things aside AMD versus Intel! please!

Computer: $2000 Internet Access: $40 Registering for forums: Free A good signature: Priceless
April 30, 2001 4:32:47 AM

Obviously, you must care as it would appear that you took the time not only to read the post but to actually respond as well. But I digress, your reading skills must obviously be lacking because the true nature of the conversation was not Intel vs AMD as you state, but rather first on some questions I had about rdram and then some issues concerning DDR. So, please tell me, where, in the context of this thread, did I say anything negative aimed at Intel?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
April 30, 2001 5:21:20 AM

Whoa.. wait a sec... I wasn't pointing you out. Your just the closest reply button :wink: . Its just the very nature of this conversation is AMD vs Intel. I'm so sick of that. Yes, this is the CPU forum and it is a relative topic, but its the SAME people talking about the SAME thing and saying the SAME stuff over and over and over... Arg!

Computer: $2000 Internet Access: $40 Registering for forums: Free A good signature: Priceless
April 30, 2001 1:02:39 PM

Thankyou for that, Raystonn! As you all can see, both Intel platforms are more money than the AMD one. I wonder which one performs the best? Hmmm......

---------
I am the first and only one with a 16MB GeForce2 GTS graphics card! :smile:
April 30, 2001 1:30:35 PM

thats true, have to wait for P4 to go Northwood with Brookdale to get the biggest bang for your buck.

And by that time, AMD will be coming out with Palomino Athlons running at 1.7~2.0 GHz!

girish

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2001 5:20:27 PM

the dude saying pc2100 dosnt come from crutial dosnt know about micron aka crutial they do sell pc-2100 ddr cas2 for actualy less the $100 from what ive seen with yes free shipping and your compairng a 1.3 to a athlon 1.3 are you kidding? a p-III out praformed that junk. if u want a good system go get a athlon save alot of money for more ram and a better video and make way for a upgrade that u dont need a new mother board.and your compairing yet again 1 vs 2 hay dude wake up if u buy in bulk or a more then one deal of course its cheaper look at the per quantity item not a buy two get a deal price. get off the p-4 crap since any current p-4 system will be a junk box when a real intel chip comes out and by then i dont see it out praforming a athlon aside from clock speed. lol dont meen anything so far but i will wait to see


Computer Shop owner and Head tech.
April 30, 2001 5:28:21 PM

No, they don't sell PC2100 CAS2. Check your facts.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2001 6:13:54 PM

Wow wee. Haven't seen a debate this heated in a while. The P4 is more expensive for the same power in office applications. But, check out those encoding scores. They're much better. Personally I never encode anything, and for people like me, the P4 provides little advantage... until SSE2 arrives.

Look hard enough and you can already find Photoshop 5.5 benchmarks with SSE2 optimisation on the net (I'll try and find the URL). The speed is mindblowing, I think they were talking 50% faster than non-SSE2.

As soon as these applications arrive en mass, and I expect they will by the time Northwood debuts, Intel will have the upper hand in terms of performance, and with the smaller, faster, cheaper, cooler Northwood core, the Athlon, Palomino or not could be left dead in the water :( 

AMD will have to pull something out of their hat before this happens. Maybe they'll slash prices, and we'll have a situation like the P3 vs. K6-III, or maybe AMD will take over the mobile market with their Mobile Morgans and Palominos. I dunno. But Intel-land is looking up, methinks.

~ The First Formally Rehabilitated AMD Lemming ~
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2001 6:34:51 PM

"Seems to me a decent Athlon system costs about as much as the P4 system running at about the same <b> clockspeed </b>"

Glad you noticed... I'm sure you saw the benchmarks as well.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2001 8:53:44 PM

my facts are right your just not looking i jsut checked and ezaly found the pc-2100 cas 2.5 the cas 2 howver is oem only for now

Computer Shop owner and Head tech.
April 30, 2001 9:31:49 PM

... and as I said. Crucial does not sell PC2100 CAS2 DDR. 2.5 != 2.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2001 9:36:22 PM

i dont knwo what to tell you man i was just on there site reading it so u realy should check your facts before you try and say something that isnt true they sell pc-2100 cas 2.5 and cas 2 to oems sorry to disapoint you but its on there site in black and white lol with a blue border. and since i persoanly can buy at least pc-2100 cas 2.5 i wonder if u know what your talking about i have supplyers for my business and its on the sheets. so i called and asked if i could oder and well dude once again its out there and i can buy it

Computer Shop owner and Head tech.
April 30, 2001 9:52:20 PM

For the, what... 3rd? 4th? time, CAS 2.5 is not CAS 2. Until you post a link showing Crucial selling PC2100 CAS2 DDR, I stand by my words. They do not sell it.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
April 30, 2001 10:58:14 PM

Yo, you athlon fans y are u bothering talking to this money wasting intel freak?? AMD's fastest athlon (1.33) could easily kick the p4 1.7ghz's ass. Just go to some of the tom's hardware reviews, you'll see. You can get an athlon 1.33ghz for around 170-180, and the Intel is what, you said $400???? LoL.

By the way you athlon fans check out this site
http:\\www.jncs.com

They have pretty good prices on motherboard, cpu, fan, memory bundles.

For example:
AMD Athlon 1.33Ghz CPU,

256mb PC2100 DDR CAS-2 Memory (Upgrade to 512mb for only $137!)

TaiSol CGK760092 20-Fin Forged Sink w/copper base, 2-ball bearing Delta fan, 6-point

$580

I have bought alot of parts from this place, they are fast and reliable.


Intel sux, AMD is better
!