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i hate amd vs. i hate Intel

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Anonymous
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May 1, 2001 12:32:01 AM

God, so many people around here are biased toward either AMD or Intel and refuse to acknowledge that both are good companies. When you can get a DDR thunderbird or a P4 that are equally fast for the same price, why not just go for the best deal you can find? It looks like Intel is getting competitive again so we can look forward to seeing better, faster, cheaper processors from both companies in the following years. People like tbirdinside and AMDmeltdown refuse to look at the facts and see that, while both have their flaws, the Tbird and P4 are both fine processors. Spewing slogans like "Intel sucks!!!" and vice versa only show how limited your knowledge is. Both companies are fine.
That said, I probably wouldnt buy a P4 right now cuz I refuse to put my hard-earned money into a company as shady and untrustworthy as Rambus.

So, am I wrong? Any comments appreciated.

-pedro229

More about : hate amd hate intel

May 1, 2001 12:42:19 AM

hear hear!
competition is good for US!
u think intel would be selling thier new P4 at $350 if amd want around???
and you think AMD would do the same if intel was around?

ThePoo!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2001 12:49:17 AM

Im sorry to beat a dead horse... but if the AMD platform was as stable and reliable as Intel.. I would be glad to buy there chips/mobo's and I would sing praises all day about AMD. But the fact is, the AMD platform is not stable nor reliable mostly because VIA chipsets are 2nd rate trash! If or when AMD can put out a reliable stable motherboard I will gladly buy it.
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May 1, 2001 1:16:30 AM

“I hate to beat a dead horse” But you are confusing stability with compatibility. My 900 @ 1 gig Tbird is rock stable, even more so then my gateway PII 300. I can leave it on for weeks on end playing games and crunching SETI with no crashes, lockups or anything.

AMD with VIA chipsets are not unstable they just are harder to set up sometimes. I didn’t have too many problems when I built my system (A7V, Geforce 2 MX, ext.) and the problems I did have were mostly self inflicted.
I will reiterate, AMD with VIA chipsets are just as stable and reliable as any Intell system.
I mean how can something be more then 100% stable.

Some one show me a Intel computer more stable then my AMD and I will write a statement that I was wrong. Via chipsets just have some compatibility issues but most if not all can be resolved with new drivers.

So there you go Everett. I will gladly send you a list of all the components of my system and help you configure your new AMD system (with VIA chipset). And you can get a 1.2 gig for the same money I spent on my 900:)  Enjoy!

Thx & Cya


<font color=green>Paranoia is just a higher awareness of reality.</font color=green>
May 1, 2001 1:22:15 AM

Here here,

I'm not a computer expert, but I do understand what all the parts do, and how to install them, and I too built my of Via-Athlon system. A 1gig 'C' Axia version that is well past the 1ghz mark (1350) right now, with a 150mhz Fsb (300DDR), and this thing is rock solid. So this claim about stability and Intel going hand in hand is ill-advised. Anyone remember the 820 boards? Anyways I'm rambling, show me a $140 Intel chip that will do 1.475ghz and I'll glady eat my words, air cooling only please.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2001 1:47:46 AM

Come over to my house
whats not stable about AMD???


I have built at least 20 Athlon system in the past few months
all 100% fine

Show ME INSTABILITY!

--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--
May 1, 2001 4:24:24 AM

CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG

...Rodney King, Los Angeles, CA

It worked yesterday! :lol: 
May 1, 2001 4:30:47 AM

nope. becauze some flamers just can hack being challenged. too many kids around im figuring. sad really

ThePoo!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2001 5:00:32 AM

"I will reiterate, AMD with VIA chipsets are just as stable and reliable as any Intell system."
"you are confusing stability with compatibility."

How stable is your VIA system when you swap out a piece of hardware that doesnt play nice with VIA motherboards? Like the SBLive! soundcard, which many VIA users are having problems with, or how about certain USB devices that can lock up VIA systems. How stable will your system be then? Stability and compatiblity go hand-in-hand. Stability is more then just being able to say "Gee.. my system has not crashed in a whole week."

(By the way, If you want to agrue that the SBLive and USB works just great on your system.. I can show you plenty of evidence that threre is a real and serious problem that many other VIA users have. Not only that, I can show you plenty of other problems with VIA systems too.)
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2001 5:08:20 AM

"ive never seen so many newbies and journeyman in one post."

O' great one. Please pay no mind to us lowly peasants.
May 1, 2001 5:30:21 AM

There's a lot of 'operator error' involved with AMD system, as opposed to ntel systems. I've had two dell computers, one desktop and one laptop. Both had 'toned down' bios settings, which are overridden by windows no matter what. Obviously, I didn't overlock either. AMD systems, on the other hand, are a little more configurable. Can't change the multiplier on the pentiums, but you sure as heck can on the t-birds.

A close analogy is Linux vs. Windows. Linux is all about customization, but you'll have to learn about it rather indepth to do anything with it; even the simplest of chores. Windows is made for 'plug-and-play' (kind of =).

Via has problems, there's no doubt.
Lets' see: hard drive failures, os drivers, bios drivers, motherboard design, processor design, cdrom failures, power supplies, heat, emi interference, mouse/keyboard, monitor, video card design. Sounds like a government operation to me; fifty different parts made by two hundred different manufacturers, all supposed to fit together. And to top it off, one manufacturer has made the majority of the standards (ntel)......
May 1, 2001 6:23:27 AM

I don’t have a SB live card so I can’t argue with you on that one. I have no Idea how well they work together or if it’s just one brand of mobo or all via chipsets. Maybe I should start a new subject and look into it. As for USB, My mouse works with no problem and I used a scanner with out a hitch on my A7V. I know people like to bash VIA and maybe they disserve it but I personally have had good luck with em.

Thx & Cya


<font color=green>Paranoia is just a higher awareness of reality.</font color=green>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2001 6:40:02 AM

"I know people like to bash VIA and maybe they disserve it but I personally have had good luck with em."

Im glad to hear that. I really am. But its too bad every other VIA/AMD owner cant say that.
May 1, 2001 8:28:13 AM

<b>How stable is your VIA system when you swap out a piece of hardware that doesnt play nice with VIA motherboards? Like the SBLive! soundcard, which many VIA users are having problems with, or how about certain USB devices that can lock up VIA systems.</b>
I have 2 systems A7V and KT7-Raid, and both of them use SBlaster Live! I haven't experienced any problem at all even with USB (I'm using printer Epson 740 and 880, BestData USB modem, Sony Digital camera). I installed a Microtek ScanMaker 3600 for my brother using USB (Biostar w/ Duron 600) and didn't hear any complain either.
About the lock-up, sometimes it's easy to be fixed by driver such as Diamond MonsterSound MX-300 used to lockup my brother's system when I load Diamond's driver until I replace the Reference driver from Vortex.
May 1, 2001 12:33:03 PM

Everett6,

From my point of view you are absolutely correct about Via. It would be interesting to see the potential of Athlon with a good chipset.

I have an Abit KT7-RAID. It is rock stable, has never crashed. But it took a day of research to get my USB working properly. I almost bought a PCI USB board! The USB on my system is solid now, but I wonder if I will lose the stability if I reconfigure the machine.

I have read responses from other users on AMD based forums that had the same problems and were unable to correct them. They opted for the PCI addon USB ports.

I have a SBlive! board as well, and have not had any problems with it. But I can read, and cannot deny that the problems exist. I had the USB problem, and was lucky enough to be able to FIND THE CONFIGURATION that allowed the USB to function properly.

Once stable, the VIA KT133(a) chipsets are fine. But changing your configuration is a crapshoot. This shouldn't be.

My next AMD system will not have a VIA chipset.



<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
May 1, 2001 2:18:12 PM

Funny, I don't recognize your name from when Tom had his forum on Aldelphi, but hey I've only been viewing Toms for 4 years now, so what the hell do I know.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2001 3:28:23 PM

"Funny, I don't recognize your name from when Tom had his forum on Aldelphi, but hey I've only been viewing Toms for 4 years now, so what the hell do I know."

So you know every member on Tom's forum since 1997? Wow! thats really amazing.
May 1, 2001 4:20:59 PM

Nope, It's called sarcasm. Mearly stating that just because I don't have addict next to my name doesn't mean that I havn't been here before, and that my opinion matters any less.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2001 4:48:13 PM

oh. i see your point now. Sorry about my post.
May 1, 2001 5:54:22 PM

Right on man. I've built both Intel and AMD, albeit mostly AMD lately. I'll admit a little more reliability with intel...but not much. But I'll also say better performance/price from AMD.

Here's a thought...When I go to the computer shows (every month) It seems the people who build their own boxes typically want AMD, NO DOUBT FOR PRICE/PERFORMANCE reasons. Where as, ppl who want INTEL can pay more and mostly want stability...and therefore tend to go to the computer shops to have someone else build their computer...also, since they're concerned with stability and not price they get that, eh-hem, warranty security blanket they need.

All this means that those ppl who DO have Intel problems
don't post!!! They take it back to the computer shop.

Where as...the AMD PPL get it done at home and here on the forum...which makes it falsely SEEM as if AMD has MORE problems than Intel.

Okay..flame on dudes heh


I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
May 1, 2001 8:58:03 PM

At one time there were _thousands_ of posts on overclocking your celery. Whatever is most popular with the diy crowd will produce the most posts.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 2, 2001 2:39:56 AM

Right on dude, by the way love the signature

96.3 % of Statistics are made up.
May 2, 2001 3:22:22 PM

I totally agree with your opinion.
I also believe competition between Intel and AMD ultimately benefits all PC consumers. Both companies have made mistakes in the past. Both will likely release some products in the future that are flawed, as well as some that are pretty good.
It's difficult to see how anyone can really benefit when a forum degenerates into a slanging match, as people who hold opinions very strongly are seldom prepared to change their mind. Also sometimes facts can become mistaken for opinions, and vice versa.

Occasionally I am drawn into the position of trying to defend my choice of hardware.

What I should realise is that it is just 'my choice', no more nor less. If someone chooses differently, fine, that's their perogative and it shouldn't be necessary to rubbish the other person's choice in order to reinforce the validity of their own choice.

But alas I guess it's a trap that we can fall in to .
I for one will try not to do so in future.
May 2, 2001 3:41:52 PM

Well said man. I couldn't agree more! :smile:

Computer: $2000 Internet Access: $40 Registering for forums: Free A good signature: Priceless
May 2, 2001 4:13:54 PM

A post to promote understanding and respect for both Intel and AMD users gets turned into a discussion on the merits of both companies' products.
Get a grip, people. Intel and AMD are companies, not religions. They sell products. That's all.
Do you like AMD chips better? More power to you. I don't see why you take offense at my prefering Intel. The reverse is also true.
I don't really expect anyone to change because of this post, I just felt it needed to be said.
And, oh, yeah, I'm a newbie. So, I'm a lurker, not a poster. I don't see how that shoud influence the way my opinions are considered. Discuss the ideas, not the person.

If it ain't broken, break it. Then fix it.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 2, 2001 4:52:17 PM

Right on dude, I tried to make a post that was just pointing out my point of view. Both Intel and AMD are good companies, depending on what you want. For home use, my preference is AMD. But you've got to admit, sometimes it's funny reading what some "flamers" have to say about things. :) 
I'm also a "newbie", I think, but I have been at Tom's for a while, just never posted. A lot of people who are "higher up" (for lack of better words), mostly post things like: "you're a sh*thead, go home and suck on ..." okay, so you get my point. "Discuss the ideas, not the person." right on man.


<Common Sense is a gift that some of us have returned.>
May 2, 2001 6:11:24 PM

Well then... You just stick to your Intel chips, and I'll just be happy with my lil' Duron system that does everything I need it to for a lot less $$ than anything Intel has. I suppose since there are so many ppl out there that have "sold their souls" to Intel, and are unwilling to try a cheaper/faster alternative to their products, I have to stop and salute you for being that way.... After all, the ppl that are too afraid to buy AMD are the ones keeping AMD from taking over and driving their prices up. Thanks a lot!

--Fltsimbuff

BTW.... No insults meant by this... just trying to get it across that I'll continue buying AMD as long as they are cheaper, faster, and until I actually see one of those fabled problems with the AMD CPU....
May 2, 2001 6:19:44 PM

"Doctor! It hurts when I do this!"......
"Ok, Then Don't Do That!

Similar situation... Don't put incompatible hardware in your system... ANY system. There are alternatives, driver/BIOS updates, etc.
*Any* system will become unstable if you put incompatible hardware together. Remember, there is hardware that is incompatible with AMD solutions (VIA chipset), and there is hardware that is incompatible with Intel Solutions. So stop whining, and don't put incompatible hardware together in your system (like Compaq Does...heh...). That is a problem located between the Keyboard and the chair.

--Fltsimbuff
May 2, 2001 6:22:13 PM

"Windows is made for 'plug-and-play' (kind of =)."

heh... 'Plug-and-Pray' is more like it :) 
May 2, 2001 6:25:59 PM

"Im glad to hear that. I really am. But its too bad every other VIA/AMD owner cant say that."

You can say the exact same thing about Intel...
I know plenty of unstable Intel-based systems, and I also know a lot of ppl that are very happy with their AMD-based systems.

--Fltsimbuff
May 2, 2001 6:29:37 PM

" But it took a day of research to get my USB working properly."

You too? I have a friend that built a system using the KT7A-RAID, and he never did get his to work..... ended up buying one of those PCI USB cards. Any chance I can benefit from the fruit of your labor?
It would be greatly appreciated. :) 
--Fltsimbuff
May 2, 2001 6:41:18 PM

I have an Asus K7V and no problems with it. All four USB ports work without problems. Most of the people here complain about AMD/Via having problems without even owning a recent system from those manufacturers.

True, my old FIC K6-III motherboard with a VIA Chipset had several problems with the AGP port. But Otherwise, even that worked pertty ok.


<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
May 2, 2001 9:01:20 PM

<font color=blue>"You too? I have a friend that built a system using the KT7A-RAID, and he never did get his to work..... ended up buying one of those PCI USB cards. Any chance I can benefit from the fruit of your labor?"</font color=blue>

I can't guarantee that following my lead will get his USB working, as our systems are not identical.

First, I have a conservative philosophy: "If it's not broke, don't fix it". With that in mind, my Abit KT7-RAID is at bios level UL. I will eventually upgrade the bios, but not until I install a "BIOS Savior". I am using version 4.26 of the VIA 4 in 1 drivers. With this configuration, my system has been ROCK SOLID STABLE. So, if your friend is at a different bios level, or is using different 4 in 1 drivers, what I did may not help him. I am only listing the settings that I think have helped.

Under Softmenu III, I have the following settings:

Fast CPU Command Decode: FAST
CPU drive strength: 2
Enhance chip performance: enabled
Everthing below this is enabled as well, and DRAM Clock is Host+PCI

Under Advanced BIOS features, all shadowing is off.

Under Advanced Chipset Features,

PCI master pipeline req: enabled
P2C/C2P concurency: enabled
Fast R-W turnaround: enabled

K7 CLK_CTL select: DISABLED
CPU to PCI write buffer enabled
The next 4 references to PCI settings are enabled.

Finally, I enabled the RAID controller. This moved the USB ports from IRQ 5 to IRQ 3.

I also have a SBLive! card. If your friend has on, be sure it is in PCI slot 4.

The problem I had was my USB scanner (an HP 3300) would only scan once. The second attempt to scan would lock up the USB port. The same went for my digital cameras. Could only import from the cameras once, and many times it would fail. HP support told me it was the VIA chipset. Not very good news after you spent good money on a top quality MB.

My USB system is now solid, never burps. Works as it should. But will it still work when I add a TV Tuner to the PCI bus? That is the VIA question.

For more information on USB problems, go to

<A HREF="http://www.viahardware.com" target="_new">http://www.viahardware.com&lt;/A> and see the KT7 faq. It is the most comprehensive one I have seen.

Good luck!

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
May 2, 2001 11:36:58 PM

I'd have to say FIC motherboards are crap. Everyone I've heard of buying one has found it to be generally unstable or just had it go tits-up out of the box. Happens with both Intel and VIA chipsets.

This seems to be the case with any chipset; some manufacturers make good motherboards, and some make crap motherboards.

Kelledin

bash-2.04$ kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
May 3, 2001 12:33:38 AM

That's fine, but what about SBlive and PIII, there are a lot of SBlive's with the old drivers that will not work period with the PIII. Not VIA chipset, not Intel chipset but the PIII cpu itself. I run a small business have built now 1000s of Athlon machines, all stable.

The SBlive problem you are talking about is a driver conflicted which is solded with updated drivers. The same thing with the PIII. I have also had a lot of problems with the P4 and soundcards, video cards, running stable period.

P4 is still in my opinion a poor design; with relieing too much on opimization like the k6/k62/k63 did. Northwood might help, but still its handy-capped by the original design flaw. Also Intel isn't pushing the new instruction code for the P4 like they did with their last two. Why is that? Because all of the hammer lines will have the same instruction sets, being very compatiable with opimization.

Intel could have designed a lot better cpu, but they drove out all of their best engineers to other companies; mostly AMD.

Just before coppermine came out the amount of time a design team was together for Intel was roughly 9 years. Now after coppermine its less than 6 months. After seeing 3 friends internship with Intel in their engineering department and all of them saying it was hell on earth. That it was all cutthroat and managers would take credit for things they didn't do and stab people in the backs.

The engineers used to somewhat run Intel back when it first came into life, but soon after the accounts and managers started running the company. That is why most of Intel cpu technology is based off stolen ideas and stolen technology from other companys.

MeldarthX
May 3, 2001 1:07:48 AM

"most of Intel cpu technology is based off stolen ideas and stolen technology from other companys"

That's quite a libelous statement there. It's completely untrue as well. Intel is the leading innovator of new technology.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 3, 2001 2:45:26 AM

'That is why most of Intel cpu technology is based off stolen ideas and stolen technology from other companys.'


Yeah, I listen to NPR too. But you've got to tell the whole story, which requires remembering the majority of details. I agree on the 'micromanagement'. I've heard friggin <font color=red><b>horror</b></font color=red> stories from a few guys at a-online. I shudder to think of msft and ntel......
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 3, 2001 10:46:40 AM

My FIC SD11 has been working just fine since February 2000
with Win95SE win98 Win2K(advanced Server) and Red Hat 6.2
I have SCSI and Soundblaster live (value) and too many other devices to list. I cold swap IDE drives so multi booting is avoided.

I only reboot when changing operating systems and have SETI running in the background 24 x 7. I have NEVER had a blue screen, I do 'C' development. Maybe I am just really lucky right ???
May 3, 2001 12:09:19 PM

Thanks a lot for the info. You have my sincerest gratitude ;) .

--Fltsimbuff
!