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T-Bird prices now going up

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May 1, 2001 10:00:05 PM

I just noticed a little red arrow pointing up next to a price of $191 for the fastest T-Bird on www.pricewatch.com. This indicates the price has in fact gone up. Would anyone care to comment or hypothesize as to why this is happening?

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

More about : bird prices

May 1, 2001 10:06:38 PM

I can't say what exactly is going on, possible the vendor realized they were selling them too close to their own wholesale price from Amd.. I don't know. But I really don't think going up to 191 is going to upset me.
Anonymous
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May 1, 2001 10:08:43 PM

Uhm... because somebody raised the price of their loss leader maybe? You know, the price they posted so that they would be listed first on those search engines. Good publicity, but maybe not maintainable.

The lowest price on pricewatch/pricescan/etc is not a very good indicator of the market price for a component. It's often offered by fly-by-night operators. Pick a few vendors that you'd be willing to by most/all of your system from and watch their prices.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ergeorge on 05/01/01 06:21 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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May 1, 2001 10:09:00 PM

I just checked and it is actually $194 for the 1.33.?.?
May 1, 2001 10:15:13 PM

Please check again. It's definately $191.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 1, 2001 10:17:14 PM

you are right, it is $191. Earlier in the day it was $194....I had to hit refresh on my IE and then it popped up $191.....my bad.
May 1, 2001 10:17:20 PM

There are in fact 4 vendors who have raised prices on the 1.33 T-Bird chips. I may be mistaken here, but I believe this has something to do with the vendors overestimating the amount of the price cut that came from AMD. Has anyone been able to confirm the exact price cut percentage that has indeed occurred?

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2001 10:18:27 PM

I havent heard anything. but is it possible AMD is having a hard time supplying its flagship 1.33ghz chips? Also, arent the prices on AMD CPU's supposed to have dropped by 50%?
May 1, 2001 10:22:28 PM

It went up one dollar. LoL, you just grab onto anything you can find......

---------
I am the first and only one with a 16MB GeForce2 GTS graphics card! :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2001 10:23:29 PM

AMD sliced between 24.5 and 47.7 per cent - most of them in the 38.4 per cent and up band - off the prices of Athlons and Durons.

The new Athlon prices, according to German Web site Chips.de - we're still awaiting confirmation from AMD UK - are:

Price Reduction
1.33GHz (133MHz FSB) $183 47.7
1.3 GHz (100MHz FSB) $173 45.6
1.2GHz (133MHz FSB) $158 46.3
1.2 GHz (100MHz FSB) $156 41.8
1.1GHz (133MHz FSB) $158 40.4
1.1 GHz (100MHz FSB) $141 41.5
1 GHz (133MHz FSB) $138 38.4
950 MHz (100MHz FSB) $123 32.41
900 MHz (100MHz FSB) $100 41.9


And for Durons:

Price Reduction
900MHz $79 38.8
850MHz $65 41.4
800MHz $53 41.1
750MHz $40 24.5

I just want to remind everyone that these prices were not confirmed.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by everett6 on 05/01/01 04:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 1, 2001 10:26:16 PM

Sorry, but I have _never_ seen any vendor _raise_ prices on a CPU when there was a price drop by the manufacturer 24 hours before; the exception being if the vendor overestimated the price cuts when they preemptively lowered prices.

This would mean that AMD did not cut prices as much as everyone had thought?

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 1, 2001 10:32:37 PM

Sorry but I don't see your reasoning.

The posted price cut for the 1.33 - $183
Price on pricewatch: $191

Posted price for 1.2 - $158
Price on pricewatch: $152

Why are we fussing over a few dollars one way or the other?
May 1, 2001 10:35:43 PM

Vendors normally preemptively cut prices before the actual date of the price cut. They base the cut off the stated amount given by the manufacturer. It's usually not the full price cut, more like halfway there. Prices then slowly fall until they are within a nominal price range a week or more after the cuts were made.

Here we see vendors _raising_ prices only 24 hours after the supposed price cut. What this tells me is vendors realized their price cuts were too much after getting modified price cut data from AMD which were not as drastic as everyone had originally been told.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 1, 2001 10:47:04 PM

Vendors? Are you refering to that 1 vendor on pricewatch who has raised the price of the 1.33 up $7 to $191? I know we are not narrow-minded people here so I'm sure you also see the majority of vendors have down arrows next to them.

Please look at the rest of the prices and you will see quite a few vendors are actually below the posted price cut numbers.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AeroSnoop on 05/01/01 06:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 1, 2001 10:54:19 PM

I see 4 T-Bird 1.33GHz vendors with raised prices. (Be careful of those vendors selling below wholesale prices. They deal in the grey market and are not authorized dealers. You won't be getting a manufacturer's warranty from them.)

Prices really shouldn't be rising at all 24 hours after a manufacturer cuts prices by nearly 50%.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 1, 2001 11:25:40 PM

Raising prices $1 does not concern me, nor should it concern you.

---------
I am the first and only one with a 16MB GeForce2 GTS graphics card! :smile:
May 1, 2001 11:28:07 PM

It's not really the amount that concerns me. It's more that the raise happened at all. That's not normal for the day after manufacturer price cuts. This indicates cuts weren't as much as vendors had thought.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 1, 2001 11:32:38 PM

I believe most (if not all) of those T-bird listings on Pricewatch are for OEM CPUs and therefore do not come with a factory warranty!
May 1, 2001 11:34:15 PM

Typically OEMs come with a 1 year warranty and retail boxed comes with a 3 year warranty.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 1, 2001 11:36:48 PM

You boggle my mind.

---------
I am the first and only one with a 16MB GeForce2 GTS graphics card! :smile:
May 1, 2001 11:40:06 PM

More often than not, I see only a 30 - 90 day (dealer) warranty. Besides which, according to Steve Benoit (aka 'Stable') in these forums, all OEM CPUs are junk at any price!
May 1, 2001 11:50:32 PM

I don't know who this person is that you are quoting, but he's wrong. OEM CPUs are exactly the same as retail CPUs. The retail ones usually come with a better warranty and possibly something extra such as a heatsink/fan.

As far as warranties go, the dealer usually gives you a 30-90 day "money back guarantee". This means they will take back the merchandise no questions back, even if it's not broken, and give you a refund. This is entirely different than the real warranty. The real warranty is 1 year for OEM CPUs and 3 years for retail.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 2, 2001 12:02:59 AM

I'd suggest that you do a search under username of "stable" and find the thread where Steve talked about the differences. It should be under something like "Steve please help me". I do believe what Steve has stated makes sense. If you buy an OEM you will get an aluminum core. If you buy retail you get copper that are made in Dresden. Very few people buy retail. Though I should mention that on this forum, other forums, and some reviews people have stated the box/retail version they bought came "unlocked". Also, the reason copper is better than aluminum is it is a better conductor of heat and thus runs cooler. You can actaully overclock with the standard fan up to 20%. If you read Steve's comments you will understand why the statementw as made that OEM are junk compared to retail. Now, this is not limited to really AMD, it is the same for Intel. Although intel does not have any cpus with copper core right now, so that is just another bonus to buying retail. Once you understand how processors are made, then tested, then determine what they are (i.e. 1 Ghz 200 Mhz FSB opposed to 1.33 Ghz 266 Mhz FSB) you realize that processors are not identical in performance to one another even though they may be manufactured totally identical. Well that is my $.02.

It worked yesterday! :lol: 
May 2, 2001 12:06:31 AM

In theory it makes complete sense, however he is wrong. I have bought many a OEM CPU (infact that's all I have bought) and all the Thunderbirds have been copper.

---------
I am the first and only one with a 16MB GeForce2 GTS graphics card! :smile:
May 2, 2001 12:06:45 AM

While I have the money for a 1.33 Ghz, I am considering getting the 1 Ghz. Then in 6 months or so when the Palomino is out (which will be faster, cooler, and cheaper) I can upgrade and then sell my 1 Ghz on Ebay. I just can't fathom paying the big price difference for the 1.33 Ghz over the 1 Ghz only months before the newer processor comes out.

If I have a Socket A motherboard with the AMD 760 chipset it should automatically fit the Palomino right? I am pretty sure the Palomino is supposed ot be Socket A?

It worked yesterday! :lol: 
May 2, 2001 12:09:02 AM

the deal with the copper isn't that it makes it cooler but that it has a lower impedence to elctrical flow
May 2, 2001 12:25:42 AM

Less resistance means less heat. Copper does produce less heat than aluminum in electrical circuits. As far as his original point that OEM cpus and retail cpus comes from different fabs, that is not true at all. It is pretty much a tossup on any particular CPU's origin. You have the same odds of getting an excellent CPU through OEM channels as you do through retail channels.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 2, 2001 12:28:30 AM

Sometimes they have the blue cores but that is no guarantee they are copper. How are you sure they are copper. I am not trying to challenge you? If they are copper then cool. I am just trying to do some research and there is a lot of information out there. I think what he was also saying is in the event that you do get a copper chances are it is a reject (didn't have great yields).

It worked yesterday! :lol: 
May 2, 2001 12:28:35 AM

the copper is only used as interconntions between diffrent proption on the chip


plus yeh i thought of the fact that resitance cause heat after i hit submit
May 2, 2001 12:49:38 AM

Quote:
I don't know who this person is that you are quoting, but he's wrong. OEM CPUs are exactly the same as retail CPUs. The retail ones usually come with a better warranty and possibly something extra such as a heatsink/fan.
-------------
As far as his original point that OEM cpus and retail cpus comes from different fabs, that is not true at all. It is pretty much a tossup on any particular CPU's origin. You have the same odds of getting an excellent CPU through OEM channels as you do through retail channels.

Ray: Steve Benoit (aka 'Stable') is a frequent contributor in the Motherboard & Chipsets forum. He has written a good many 'authoratative' posts therein, advising other forum members that it's extremely foolish to buy oem CPUs (and that's puting it mildly!). <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new"> Here</A> and<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new"> here</A> are just two of those posts.

Although IntelConvert's post seems to coincide with your views, Steve Benoit seems to speak with authority on this subject!
May 2, 2001 1:43:52 AM

I hate to burst your bubble, as you seem to think he's some kind of authority, but he's just trying to push his business model. He owns a company and sells computer systems based on the belief that he pushes in these messages. His website is at stabletechnologies.com.

From one of his posts:
"Remember, EVEN COPPER oem PROCESSORS HAVE ALREADY BEEN TESTED TO MEET THE STANDARDS OF PERFORMANCE AND TOLLERANCES OF A BOXED CPU, BUT HAVE FAILED AND THUS HAVE BEEN REJECTED BY THE FACTORY! If they didn’t sell it as oem, they would be forced to throw it away!"

This is wrong. Intel provides high quality CPUs to all customers, including OEMs. Processors that fail their test are retested at lower clock speeds, not thrown out and not sold at the failed speed as OEM. If it fails, it fails. It will never be sold at the failed clockspeed, ever. CPUs almost never have to be thrown out because they can always be tested at a lowered clockspeed, usually passing, and sold at the lower frequency.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 2, 2001 1:57:16 AM

Steve Benoit, despite his vast knowledge, does sell Retail equipment. Cyberimage is another. You must realize that both have somewhat a vested interest in retail sales. While Steve does seem to put his information across in a much more profesional manner ( in my opinion at least), you still must take this into account.

So, you want the truth? Who is right? Steve or Rayston? Well, in all honesty, I beleive that they are both right and both wrong. Simply put somewhere in the middle lies the truth. CPU culling does happen. A 1.33 gig T-bird that did not make the grade may end up as a 1.0 gig. So on and so on. An important factor in this is the batch's yeild ratio. Lets say that a batch of processors are made and they all test great as 1.33 gig cpu's. However,they also need some 1 gig cpu's as well. Well, now the process can happen in reverse and some 1.33 gig CPU's are clocked at 1 gig.

The major concern here is not so much the CPU itself, but the quality of the "grey market" Dealer you are dealing with. Most of the time over the internet, you never see the guy, he could care less about you. Not like the local retailor that hopes to earn your repeat business.

As to the pretention that all OEM's CPU's are junk, I would like you to take time to consider this statement. Where to OEM CPU's come from? Manufactoreres like gateway, Micron, Dell, etc etc. This is still where the majority of AMD/Intels business is. Do you really think that they would tolerate consistently being sold junk? This could only damage AMD/Intel(s) reputation.

The concern is where did this grey market distrubitor get there merchandise from? From Gateway, that just happened to be overstocked at the moment and is unloading some perfectly good CPU's. Or From Manufactorer x who is unloading some of there RMA merchandise. Common sense would tell you that a reputable manufactorer like a Gateway or such, if they did get a bad batch in would simply retun then to AMD/Intel for replacement.

All this being said, would not this be a great place for Tom's hardware to do a review? I mean something that we could all benefit from? Simply buy ten retail CPU's from different places, and do the same with ten OEM CPU's. All at the same clock speed. Run them all up on the exact same system, check for operating temps and Overclockability, and then see if there is in fact a discerable difference? Would this not be something of more interest then say a review on streamers?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
May 2, 2001 2:23:43 AM

I have one explaination for possible raising of prices. I mean, if that company bought a crapload of TBirds right before the price cut was announced, they have to unload the processers before the price cut goes into effect. Raising the prices a few dollars will make them more money before the price cut, so they aren't as hurt when they do have to cut the prices. Maybe, maybe not. Anyways, a small upspike in prices from a small amount of vendors does not constitude an overall price hike. AMD prices are going down.

"We put the <i>fun</i> back into fundamentalist dogma!"
May 2, 2001 2:36:28 AM

Another possible explanation is marketing. The seller hikes his prices two bucks. This gives him a red arrow. People think "Oh no! prices are going up I better buy now"! Two days later same seller lowers prices two bucks, now gets a green arrow. Buyer thinks "WOW, great deal, better buy now!"
Face it the arrows draw attention, free advertisement for little or no money.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
!