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Yet Another [annoying] Early Death (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha)

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March 14, 2005 10:07:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

(sobs)

I've just had (again) one of the most typical early deaths (DL2,
Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha, XP1, 12HP):

You feel that RNG is displeased --More--
Click! You trigger a rolling boulder trap! You are hit by a boulder!
DYWYPI? (y/n)

Since I only lost some minutes of game, it wouldn't have been SO
annoying... (sobs again) if I hadn't started with [two of] the most
useful rings: polymorph control + free action. PLUS a spellbook of
charm monster, the one I enjoy best. I bet I won't get such a lucky
starting inventory in quite a time.

I just felt like telling someone.

--
Manuel, killed again by a rolling boulder trap
March 14, 2005 10:39:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

[about early death with very good starting inventory]

Of course, when I say "annoying" in this context, I mean
"relatively annoying". It is never even half as frustrating
as a later death of a promising character, I know.
March 14, 2005 3:08:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Manuel wrote:
>
> > Since I only lost some minutes of game, it wouldn't have been SO
> > annoying... (sobs again) if I hadn't started with [two of] the most
> > useful rings: polymorph control + free action.
>
> Those rings are practically worthless for low-level characters.
> I'd much rather start with some other rings.
>

I agree that they are useless for the beginning (only useful when
you find polymorph traps or cockatrices). But I very rarely find them
lying around or in shops, so I love to have them from the very
beginning. This way I know I'll have them when I need them.

Right now, for example, I am dealing with a cockatrice, and I don't
have any of the many items and intrinsics that would be useful here.
I'd be much safer with a ring of free action here (I'll write about
this on a separate thread, I need some info about 'trices).

BTW, which rings do you find most useful as starting inventory?
Related resources
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 3:40:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Manuel wrote:
>
> > useful rings: polymorph control + free action.
>
> Those rings are practically worthless for low-level characters. I'd
> much rather start with some other rings.

For a staring wizard, my prefered ones are:

slow digestion
poison resistance
teleport control
invisibility
protection
searching
increase damage
warning
regeneration

This is in descending order of smile factor. That is slow digestion
will put the biggest smile on my face, and regeneration still makes me
smile a bit.

This is all the rings I know for sure will be put to good use in the
early part of the game.

--
Jean-François Côté
http://www.nonobots.com
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 5:53:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,misc.misc (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> Manuel wrote:

>> Since I only lost some minutes of game, it
>> wouldn't have been SO annoying... (sobs again) if
>> I hadn't started with [two of] the most useful
>> rings: polymorph control + free action.

> Those rings are practically worthless for
> low-level characters. I'd much rather start with
> some other rings.

Indeed, and this is a common problem: starting with
stuff that would be _great_ later.

I just started a wizard who had my heart's desire
for later in the game: her second spell book was
"identify", but she had nothing whatever useful in the
beginning of the game, neither potion nor scroll nor
ring usable at T:1, and barely survived long enough
to die on Dlvl:2. Sometimes PCs get killed by the
RNG with kindness, too.

To add to the feeling the RNG had poor WingedRock's
demise in mind from the start, at T:1 she was
standing on a scroll of amnesia.

Sigh. Roll up another character, machine.

xanthian.
March 14, 2005 7:15:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Manuel wrote:
> > Right now, for example, I am dealing with a cockatrice, and I don't
> > have any of the many items and intrinsics that would be useful
here.
> > I'd be much safer with a ring of free action here (I'll write about
> > this on a separate thread, I need some info about 'trices).
>
> How does a ring of free action protect you from a cockatrice?

Doesn't it?? It seemed obvious to me that the same ring that protected
you from freezing on a floating eye's gaze would protect you from
petri-
fying too. Looks like I don't read enough spoilers.

Come to think of it, I was one toying with a cockatrice, taking it easy
because I was wearing that ring. I can imagine my face if I had been
turned to stone then. Well, I would have learned the lesson the hard
way.
March 14, 2005 7:26:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> Polymorph traps only appear below level 8 or so, so a beginning
> character has no use for [a ring of Poly control]. Even then,
> a wizard (which was what we were talking about, since no other
> character starts with rings) always has magic resistance, so
> polymorph traps are a blessing, not a curse to find. You can use
> them almost indefinitely on your pet when you have magic
> resistance yourself.
>

Is there a way to do that *without* a leash? I have found two poly
traps at the bottom of the Mines, and my pet has turned into a
ghoul there. I'd prefer to have a tougher monster as a pet. BTW, I
don't have a magic whistle either.

--
Manuel.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 9:27:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote:

> Since I only lost some minutes of game, it wouldn't have been SO
> annoying... (sobs again) if I hadn't started with [two of] the most
> useful rings: polymorph control + free action.

Those rings are practically worthless for low-level characters.
I'd much rather start with some other rings.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
March 15, 2005 12:24:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"nonobots" <jfcote@nonobots.com> wrote in
news:1110832841.752045.114330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>> Manuel wrote:
>>
>> > useful rings: polymorph control + free action.
>>
>> Those rings are practically worthless for low-level characters. I'd
>> much rather start with some other rings.
>
> For a staring wizard, my prefered ones are:
>
> slow digestion
> poison resistance
> teleport control
> invisibility
> protection
> searching
> increase damage
> warning
> regeneration
>
Funny you don't mention sustain ability (yes I know poison resist is there)
because at least 5 times now when I FIRST entered the mines Wiz 50+ hp 5 or
less AC I ran into a mind flayer without said ring EVERY time ARRRGH


> This is in descending order of smile factor. That is slow digestion
> will put the biggest smile on my face, and regeneration still makes me
> smile a bit.
>
> This is all the rings I know for sure will be put to good use in the
> early part of the game.
>
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:45:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote:

[ free action, polymorph control ]

> I agree that they are useless for the beginning (only useful when
> you find polymorph traps or cockatrices).

Polymorph traps only appear below level 8 or so, so a beginning
character has no use for them. Even then, a wizard (which was what we
were talking about, since no other character starts with rings) always
has magic resistance, so polymorph traps are a blessing, not a curse to
find. You can use them almost indefinitely on your pet when you have
magic resistance yourself.

> But I very rarely find them
> lying around or in shops, so I love to have them from the very
> beginning. This way I know I'll have them when I need them.

All rings have the same probability. You're as likely to find a ring of
free action in a shop as a ring of hunger. Note that rings of
invisibility are a bit more common, since Nazgul always carry them.

> Right now, for example, I am dealing with a cockatrice, and I don't
> have any of the many items and intrinsics that would be useful here.
> I'd be much safer with a ring of free action here (I'll write about
> this on a separate thread, I need some info about 'trices).

How does a ring of free action protect you from a cockatrice? The only
things that help you are (1) a good AC, (2) an item that grants MC3 and
(3) carrying a lizard corpse.

> BTW, which rings do you find most useful as starting inventory?

I guess that would be slow digestion and teleport control, so I can eat
the first leprechaun or nymph that leaves a corpse. The combination
ensures that you can put the ring of teleport control on and keep it on
without suffering too much from the increased food consumption.

My current samurai has about everything that's really "necessary" to
have, but while the first tengu she ate granted teleport, the next five
didn't grant her teleport control yet. My identified rings aren't
teleport control, either.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:45:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 2005-03-14, Boudewijn Waijers <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
> How does a ring of free action protect you from a cockatrice? The only
> things that help you are (1) a good AC, (2) an item that grants MC3 and
> (3) carrying a lizard corpse.
>

(2) is a common misconception- the check is mtmp->mcan, which is if
the monster is cancelled, not uncancelled, which is if the monster is
cancelled, or that specific attack is canclled by your MC.

--
Andrew D. Hilton
UPenn Phd Student
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:48:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

nonobots wrote:

> For a staring wizard, my prefered ones are:

> slow digestion
> poison resistance
> teleport control
> invisibility
> protection
> searching
> increase damage
> warning
> regeneration

I can agree with most of these. However, it's not likely I will wear
either invisibility, protection, increase damage, searching or warning
with a starting character. Those are only good when you wear them all
the time, and that's just too much food consumption for my taste.

I'll use poison resistance to be able to eat what I want, then take it
off again. Repeat until a corpse grants poison resistance. The same goes
for regeneration: take it off quickly.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:51:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:

> Funny you don't mention sustain ability (yes I know poison resist is
> there) because at least 5 times now when I FIRST entered the mines
> Wiz 50+ hp 5 or less AC I ran into a mind flayer without said ring
> EVERY time ARRRGH

In both the poison resistance case and the sustain ability case, I
wouldn't wear those for the sustain ability property. Both strength loss
and intelligence loss are easily repaired with a unicorn horn.

As for poison resistance, I'd wear it to prevent the HP loss or the
instakill with poisoned arrows and spikes. As for sustain ability, it's
not the intelligence loss I fear from a mind flayer. It's the memory
loss, both in identifies and in level maps. The rings you mention don't
prevent these effects.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
March 15, 2005 2:51:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote in
news:D 154i4$be4$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl:

> chuck wrote:
>
>> Funny you don't mention sustain ability (yes I know poison resist is
>> there) because at least 5 times now when I FIRST entered the mines
>> Wiz 50+ hp 5 or less AC I ran into a mind flayer without said ring
>> EVERY time ARRRGH
>
> In both the poison resistance case and the sustain ability case, I
> wouldn't wear those for the sustain ability property. Both strength loss
> and intelligence loss are easily repaired with a unicorn horn.
>
> As for poison resistance, I'd wear it to prevent the HP loss or the
> instakill with poisoned arrows and spikes. As for sustain ability, it's
> not the intelligence loss I fear from a mind flayer. It's the memory
> loss, both in identifies and in level maps. The rings you mention don't
> prevent these effects.
>

You've often had a unicorn horn when you FIRST go into the mines??? I
usually get mine there... (usually on the way up from minetown to fill up
my chest again)
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 6:44:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote on 14 Mar 2005 12:08:03 -0800:
> BTW, which rings do you find most useful as starting inventory?

Conflict, teleport control, regeneration, poison resistance.


--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 7:14:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,misc.misc (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> Then move towards your pet,
> and hope to displace it onto the trap.

I thought "displace pet into trap" was an action
specifically punished by the game???

xanthian.
March 15, 2005 7:53:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
> > Then move towards your pet,
> > and hope to displace it onto the trap.
>
> I thought "displace pet into trap" was an action
> specifically punished by the game???
>

I believe so too. In any case, they are *traps*, so
I think it is only fair that one can't use them too
freely for his benefit. It's up to you to choose to
take the risk or not. Am I worng?
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 10:34:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

>> polymorph traps are a blessing, not a curse to find. You can use
>> them almost indefinitely on your pet when you have magic
>> resistance yourself.

> Is there a way to do that *without* a leash? I have found two poly
> traps at the bottom of the Mines, and my pet has turned into a
> ghoul there. I'd prefer to have a tougher monster as a pet. BTW, I
> don't have a magic whistle either.

It just takes longer without a leash or magic whistle. Stand on the
trap, wait until your pet moves next to you. Then move towards your pet,
and hope to displace it onto the trap. Then hope it polymorphs. If it
doesn't, try again. Rinse and repeat until you get something you like or
your pet dies from system shock.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 2:31:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

nonobots wrote:

> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>> Manuel wrote:
>>
>> > useful rings: polymorph control + free action.
>>
>> Those rings are practically worthless for low-level characters. I'd
>> much rather start with some other rings.
>
> For a staring wizard, my prefered ones are:
>
> slow digestion
> poison resistance
> teleport control
> invisibility
> protection
> searching
> increase damage
> warning
> regeneration

Whereas I like poison resistance and free action best, I like invisibility
only because a shopkeeper will give me 75 zorkmids for it, slow digestion
and warning are nice and regeneration can be useful in a crisis, but I
won't wear the rest as a starting W. By the time my wizards start needing
teleport control they almost have it intrinsically.

Raisse, poisoned by a poisonous corpse

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 5:33:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Manuel" <manuel.matias@gmail.com> writes:

> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
> > Polymorph traps only appear below level 8 or so, so a beginning
> > character has no use for [a ring of Poly control]. Even then,
> > a wizard (which was what we were talking about, since no other
> > character starts with rings) always has magic resistance, so
> > polymorph traps are a blessing, not a curse to find. You can use
> > them almost indefinitely on your pet when you have magic
> > resistance yourself.
> >
>
> Is there a way to do that *without* a leash?

Pets occasionally step onto traps, but this is much
less likely than stepping onto a non-trapped square.
Hence yes, just waiting does the trick. However, there
are two drawbacks. First, you'll have to wait quite
some time, second, if the pet polies into an immobile
monster, you have a problem.

Best,
Jakob
March 16, 2005 12:20:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1110888856.276007.315340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Kent Paul Dolan <xanthian@well.com> wrote:
>
>
>Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
>> Then move towards your pet,
>> and hope to displace it onto the trap.
>
>I thought "displace pet into trap" was an action
>specifically punished by the game???

Yes. Don't try to pray after this exercise.
!