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I need to make some decisions... Help??

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Anonymous
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May 5, 2001 6:44:14 AM

Hey everyone.

Well I am going to be buying my own computer sometime in the near future, depending on the decisions I need to make. I have 2 computers currently... a AMD K6-350 and a Celeron 466. These are openly used by members of my family and though the Celeron system is mainly used by me, I am going to purchase my own.

Now the main thing bothering me, or should I say the thing that I need some advice/clarification on is about CPU & Motherboard configurations.

I guess one very important question I should ask now... I was thinking of getting Dual CPU so I could get 2 cheaper priced CPU's and still get a fast speed. Is this worth it, or advisable? Forgive me if this is a stupid question but this is one of the areas I am not too sure about.

Also I was thinking is the DDR Motherboard, Memory etc. worth it? Currently here in Australia, AMD and Intel have DDR Motherboards but neither have both Dual CPU and DDR memory as of yet.

What are your opinions? If you need some clarification on some of my questions, please ask. Thank you.

More about : make decisions

May 5, 2001 12:22:24 PM

1st off 2 500's don't = 1000. Even in the best of situations. What it can help with is multiple "running" apps. Yeah running not just open and sitting there.

DDR? not sure too much about in a duallie but there isn't much diff in standard especially if running business and web apps. Although if you don't mind investing a few extra bucks, because I assume you need everything amyhow, it can't hurt. Will probally cost an x-tra $100 between mobo and DDR.

I don't think anything is ready for DDR yet and you will never, IMHO, see a doubling of bandwith when using DDR over SDRAM. I'm going for a 133A board. You know with the 133 (266) FSB.

<b><A HREF="http://www.seti.tomshardware.com/" target="_new">How fast is your PC</A></b>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 5, 2001 2:36:00 PM

Thanks for your reply. I think I'll just stick to single processor and SD Ram for now. Thanks again.
Related resources
May 5, 2001 6:53:14 PM

the question is what are you planing on doing with it becuase that make a lot of diffrence in what you put in a system
May 6, 2001 12:56:18 AM

Very true, what do you plan on doing with this computer?

96.3 % of Statistics are made up.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 6, 2001 1:14:03 AM

First of all forget about DDR... its pretty worthless right now there is hardly any performance advantage to it. Get 133mhz Sdram its fast, stable and cheap. Secondly, dual cpu systems are great if you use a lot of apps at one time or are needing to use a specific application that is written to take advantage of it, such as Photoshop. Otherwise you're wasting $$.
Personally here's what I would recommend.
Asus CUSL2 Intel i815E motherboard a 1Ghz EB processor and 512mb of PC133 memory.
I dont recommend AMD/VIA systems right now because of the many known compatbility issues with VIA chipsets. However, if you decide to go with AMD/VIA keep in mind you could spend hours applying patch's, bios updates, drivers and other fixes and even that wont guaruntee that your system will work with new hardware that comes out. The great thing about Intel motherboards is that they work great right out of the box and your pretty much always guarunteed that any new hardware will work perfectly with it.



Backups? We doan *NEED* no steenking baX%^~,VbKx NO CARRIER
Anonymous
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May 6, 2001 2:51:48 AM

Well I guess the "driving" force behind this system is to be a gaming system. However I intend to use it for general use as well... mainly gaming though. =)
May 6, 2001 3:11:09 AM

I dont recommend AMD/VIA systems right now because of the many known compatbility issues with VIA chipsets. However, if you decide to go with AMD/VIA keep in mind you could spend hours applying patch's, bios updates, drivers and other fixes and even that wont guaruntee that your system will work with new hardware that comes out. The great thing about Intel motherboards is that they work great right out of the box and your pretty much always guarunteed that any new hardware will work perfectly with it.


So you wouldn't recommend anyone buying an intel based system to grab the latest updates?

BTW it doesn't take that long to update everything maybe a half-hour... the drivers that come with the motherboard will work just fine.

But I would always recommend to get latest updates for all you hardware...no matter what chipset you choose.

96.3 % of Statistics are made up.
Anonymous
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May 6, 2001 5:53:24 AM

Yes, I agree to get the latest bios update no matter what chipset is used. Im just saying that with VIA motherboards its mandatory to apply bios updates and drivers because there are compatiblity issues that have hot been resolved which could seriously affect someone's system. With Intel chipsets there are bios updates but they are not "mandatory" as Intel chipset motherboards work right out of the box. No updates required.



Backups? We doan *NEED* no steenking baX%^~,VbKx NO CARRIER
May 6, 2001 6:46:09 AM

i seriously dont understand what compatibility issues people are talking about. i have been using a VIA chipset for the past 3 years and have not had 1 problem. even now with my KT133 i have never had any problems. i only update teh bios out of good habit, not that i need to. mine worked "right out of the box. no updates required." so i say unless you own one it isnt really fair to recommend against it. heres my complete system:
Tbird on an Asus A7V (VIA KT133) 1007
VIA 4-in-1 4.30
256 PC133
Maxtor drive on ATA100
CD-ROM && CD-RW on ATA66
ATI Radeon 32DDR
SB Live MP3+ && Dlink 10/100 nic in PCI


<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 6, 2001 7:21:26 AM

Great.. Im glad to hear it. It's too bad all the other VIA motherboard owners that do have problems cant say that about there systems too.



Backups? We doan *NEED* no steenking baX%^~,VbKx NO CARRIER
May 6, 2001 10:53:31 AM

<b>It's too bad all the other VIA motherboard owners that do have problems cant say that about there systems too.</b>
I don't have any problem with mine either.
1. Asus A7V with TB 700@850MHz.
2. Abit KT7-Raid w/ TB 700@850MHz.
May 6, 2001 11:04:55 AM

For the system you quoted him he could get,

AMD 1.333 T-bird,
760 board,
512 pc2100, *same price as the pc133*

Motherboard will be a little more than the i815, but the AMD processor is still cheaper and far, far better overclocker.

Now we could get into video cards, but the real question is how much is he going to spend? :) 

For a good middle ground card, The Kyro II is a great chipset for a card. If he wants more of a theatre card, of course I would have to say that the All in Wonder is really the only chose....:) 

I agree with the Dual system, I mean if he was wanting to get into heavy graphics, then I could see the possiblity for it. Most of the time the power is wasted, and Intel's bandwidth mangement for duals sucks.......

DDR isn't worthless, its got its uses......:) 

But you can't say that if you go with AMD/VIA that you have to patch and patch and patch. That just isn't the case. The same thing could be said about Intel, but it isn't worth arguing about....:) 

Either way he goes.....he will have a nice system...;)

MeldarthX
May 6, 2001 3:38:06 PM

I can't understand why you even posted. I'm glad you haven't
any problems with your amd setup. However, you are in a very small minority. If you had be readind the many forums on the net you'd know that, So I can only assume your a newbie,As such you should only be seeking opinions, not giving them. I shudder at the thought of rookie getting in over their head due to listening to the ilinformed.

Jeff in LA.
May 6, 2001 6:47:22 PM

haha, jeff in LA, youre quite the joker. you were kidding right?

First off, if YOU have been reading the many forums on the internet you would realize that I am NOT in the "very small minority", whereas in fact I am in the majority. maybe you have forgotten what a minority is (it is a group smaller than 50% of the total population).
Second, you have also failed to realize that everyone who posts in these forums are posting there problems, and they can in no way be construed as the majority of the VIA chipset owners. Have you thought about the fact that not many people like me post about having a perfectly trouble free system. So by simple logic, it can be determined that the majority of VIA systesm ARE in fact stable, due to the RELATIVELY few amount of problems seen on the internet.
And finally, how can you possibly accuse me of being a "rookie" giving out my "opinions" when you are in much less of a positino to be talking. You have less than 25 posts on this forum and are a long, long way off of proving YOURSELF to not be a "newbie". I have helped far more people on this forum than you even have posts. So I suggest that instead of attacking me over something you obviously know nothign about, you take a bit of your own medicine and go help people instead of giving opinions as you have amply proven yourself to do on this fine day.

<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
Anonymous
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May 6, 2001 6:58:47 PM

Quote:
For the system you quoted him he could get,

AMD 1.333 T-bird,
760 board,
512 pc2100, *same price as the pc133*

I disagree with you, the Intel system is much less expensive then AMD. According to pricewatch here’s what he could get. The Intel is about $130 cheaper.

Intel-
INTEL PENTIUM III 1000EB(133MHZ) $206
ASUS CUSL2-C $107
512MB PC133 $93

Total=$406

AMD-
AMD THUNDERBIRD K7 1333MHZ(1.33GHZ) 266MHZ $198
ASUS A7A266 $136
512MB CAS2.5 DDR $200

Total=$534




Backups? We doan *NEED* no steenking baX%^~,VbKx NO CARRIER
Anonymous
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May 6, 2001 7:54:37 PM

Antipop, you can’t ignore the fact that there are compatibility issues with VIA chipsets. They are documented and talked about in many places all over the net. Now, I don’t want to get into a big heated debate with you over these issues. But to say that there are no problems with VIA motherboards is a complete fallacy. The latest bug that has reared its ugly head is the issue with VIA 686B Southbridge which causes data corruption which can lead to BSOD and system crashes. The problem is compounded if you use a SoundBlaster Live card. And using a SoundBlaster Live card with VIA chipsets is another separate, <b>known</b> and <b>common</b> compatibility problem. The fix for the Southbridge requires a new bios update <b>if one is available for your particular motherboard</b> if one is not available for your motherboard.. then cross your fingers and hope your data doesn’t get corrupted. I have heard that in some VIA motherboards you can adjust the PCI latency and PCI delay settings and other tweaks to fix the Southbridge problem but that solution has not been confirmed. There are other compatibility issues with VIA’s USB controller which affects certain USB devices from functioning correctly.
One only needs to be informed to know about these problems, they are some of the reasons I cannot whole hardly recommend AMD/VIA systems. My sister is looking to buy a new PC and has asked me for advice. Even though I like AMD CPU’s I certainly couldn’t recommend an AMD/VIA system to her.




Backups? We doan *NEED* no steenking baX%^~,VbKx NO CARRIER
May 6, 2001 10:59:01 PM

<b>But to say that there are no problems with VIA motherboards is a complete fallacy. The latest bug that has reared its ugly head is the issue with VIA 686B Southbridge which causes data corruption which can lead to BSOD and system crashes.</b>
You failed to see that his <b>A7V</b>, as well as mine, has VIA 686<b>A</b> that isn't applied to your argument.
a b à CPUs
May 6, 2001 11:23:14 PM

If someone wants AMD and few if any chipset problems, you should be recommending the Iwill KA266. Although it does NOT make good use of DDR, it will still beet most SDR equiped systems and supports the very fast 1333 processor. It cost a couple hundred more but is still much cheaper than a P4 with better performance than available PIII's.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 6, 2001 11:34:42 PM

Please understand that I wasn’t talking particularly about his system nor yours, but VIA chipsets in general. Many tens of thousands VIA equipped motherboards use the 686<b>B</b> southbridge chip. The 686B southbridge chip is used in the majority of AMD mobos, primarily the KT-133, but it can be used with northbridge parts from the Apollo Pro 133, KX-133A and AMD-76x chipsets too.
As mentioned before, a bios update can resolve the issue but it is only a temporary fix, VIA needs to remove the bug from the chipset itself.




Backups? We doan *NEED* no steenking baX%^~,VbKx NO CARRIER
Anonymous
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May 6, 2001 11:47:53 PM

I cannot recommend DDR either. It cost twice as much as PC133 memory and current DDR implimentations show virtually no performance gains over PC133 platforms. In my line of work there is hardly a day or two that goes by that someone doesnt ask me what computer they should buy. I usually tell them if they want stability without compatibility issues they should purchase and Intel PIII based system with an Intel chipset motherboard. Dell is a good bet. But I also tell them that if they can wait a few months the situation should look better in the form 2nd generation P4 or possibly AMD/nvidia platform.



Backups? We doan *NEED* no steenking baX%^~,VbKx NO CARRIER
May 7, 2001 12:20:49 AM

I agree unless you have money to burn stick with sdram. But VIA chipsets are not that bad...they had a huge bug...they fixed it. What's the big deal? What about when Intel goofs? Everybody makes mistakes...hell look at microsoft. Let's say screw amd and intel lets bash microsoft, cmon it will be fun.

If this guy is new to building and doesn't know to get the latest updates...yes he should buy an intel chipset.

They are easier for the novice. With very little help an AMD machine is very easy to build and if you do it right you will NOT have ANY problems.

I have yet to have an AMD/VIA system not work...all of my INTEL/VIA systems have worked too.

I want to see what the amd/nvidia mobo's will be like.

96.3 % of Statistics are made up.
May 7, 2001 12:31:36 AM

[quote[I cannot recommend DDR either. It cost twice as much as PC133 memory and current DDR implimentations show virtually no performance gains over PC133 platforms/[/quote]
youre kidding right? ddr memory costs twice as much as pc133? what planet do you live on? unless you are refering to cas2, in which case i still dont think its twice as much. but crucial cas2.5 pc2100 is 115 after shipping. second, on the amd761 chipset, ddr memroy provides a 10-15% increase in speed of a system on average. whiel it may not be that great of an increase, the industry is moving towards some type of data pumped bus and while right now sdr ram isnt that much worse, in a few months the gap will be even more great.

<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
May 7, 2001 1:28:23 AM

Just thought I'd drop some numbers from www.pricewatch.com:

128MB 3.20GB/s RDRAM: $85
128MB 2.10GB/s CAS2 DDR SDRAM: $91
128MB 2.10GB/s CAS2.5 Generic DDR SDRAM: $48
128MB 1.05GB/s (PC133) CAS2 Generic SDR SDRAM: $29

CAS2 DDR is over 3 times as much as PC133. RDRAM is cheaper than it is. CAS2.5 is about half the price of CAS2. All current benchmarks with Athlon systems are using CAS2 DDR memory. It's not clear what the performance penalty would be moving to CAS 2.5 or even SDR in those same benchmarks. It's unfortunate that the reviewers who performed the benchmarks failed to mention that the price of PC2100 CAS2 is greater than the price of RDRAM. I believe the performance/price ratio is greater for RDRAM than for PC2100 CAS2 DDR. CAS2.5 looks a bit better.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 7, 2001 3:23:22 AM

i assumed we were considering only quality ram chips here, and not the cheap crap that nobody here would ever buy anyway.
and then consider than you have to buy 2 identical sticks of rdram and the 256mb prices for pc2100 and pc133 do get lower.

<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheAntipop on 05/06/01 11:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b à CPUs
May 7, 2001 4:28:18 AM

Well, the KA266 does use DDR, and it is a great board. It is an excellent alternative to ANY SDR Athlon board, because it will outperform them by at least a small amount, and does not have VIA's problems. You see, the best PERFORMING Athlon SDR motherboards ALL use VIA chipsets. So in order to circumvent those problems, you can get the KA266, pay a little extra for the DDR, and live with the fact that you only got 3% better performance out of it but much better stability and compatability. Maybe I should make a list of various cards my VIA motherboards have had problems with. The fact is that MOST of these problems are directaly attributable to their south bridges, which seem to do a gawd awfull job managing the PCI bus. This is a problem that goes back at LEAST 4 years with them.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
May 7, 2001 4:30:25 AM

"consider than you have to buy 2 identical sticks of rdram and the 256mb prices for pc2100 and pc133 do get lower"

It's $253 for one 256MB PC2100 CAS2 memory stick. That's more expensive than two 128MB sticks. That's why I didn't go into 256MB sticks. Prices for pc2100 get higher, not lower.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 7, 2001 5:18:24 AM

Don't the 760s all use the VIA southbridge now though?

Sorry - my mistake - KA266 - Ali Magik, not AMD chipset...

Pete.

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by peteb on 05/07/01 03:27 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 7, 2001 5:24:36 AM

I've seen prices @ about $155.00 for one stick of 256Megs DDR RAM. Although I'm suspecting the CL is 2.5
Admittedly, that's still roughly 2X the price of PC133, but no where near the cost ($253) that you're mentioning. But, to be fair, I have not seen an actual quote myself for the CAS2 version, so you may be right.
May 7, 2001 6:53:05 AM

I get my prices from www.pricewatch.com. just manually search through the listings that mention CAS ratings.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 7, 2001 7:57:21 AM

Thanks for the replies guys.

Just thought I would add a bit of info into the DDR cost debate. Here in Perth, Western Australia.. the price of a single stick of 256 DDR Ram is about AU$ 700. While a single stick of 256 SDR Ram is about AU$ 220. I really want to get DDR Ram, but budget is a little stricter then being able to spend that much on memory.

Is it worth buying a DDR "system" now, or getting SDR until DDR becomes a bit cheaper and perhaps more worth it, in terms of performance and price?

I can see having to change Motherboard and memory a bit of problem so I would really hope that getting DDR memory in the state its in now would not make it obsolete when it becomes better.
May 7, 2001 5:13:51 PM

I have never had a problem with the 4 systems I have built with via motherboards, Epox,Fic,Azus, and Msi.
I believe there are as many problems with Intel systems as Amd systems.
people who do things the right way(like following directions) seldom have problems.....
Bob
May 7, 2001 5:38:11 PM

OMG! I'm not the only one living in an indecisive nightmare?!

My brain has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down
May 7, 2001 6:27:13 PM

Let's see now... I'm going to put this bluntly..... That is a boatload of crap!
I ordered a cheap VIA-KT133 Based mobo, and a Duron 700 CPU, clapped them into t case with other components, and Installed Win2k.
Absolutely no.... I repeat.....NO compatibility problems here! You take rumors, and continue spreading them until you all seem to belive them.... I have put together about 6 or 7 differently configured Athlon systems, and the ONLY compatibility problem I have had was the USB on a KT7A-RAID board. Do a bit of thinking/research before you recommend against buying a product by saying that it is "incompatible" or "unstable" ppl..... I have a Celery 500 that is horridly slow and unstable though... all kinds of bugs.....

--Fltsimbuff
May 7, 2001 6:46:55 PM

Duron 700MHz
Amptron M805LR Motherboard (I know.... but it works...)
256MB PC133 SDRAM DIMM
ATI Radeon VE 32MB DDR (4X AGP)
Maestro2 Sound Board
Maxtor ATA66 7200rpm 40GB HDD
52X CDROM
Built-in RTL3189 Chipset NIC
300 Watt P/S
100MB Internal IDE Zip Drive

Well... there's another *Perfectly Stable* Athlon system with a VIA chipset... Right out of the box... next....

1GHz T-bird (200MHz)
Abit KT7A-RAID (VIA KT133A) Motherboard
256MB PC133 SDRAM Dimm
Voodoo3 2000 PCI Video
SoundBlaster PCI 128 Based Sound Card
WD 7200rpm 40GB HDD
NetGear NIC
Sony 12X8X32 CD Burner
Some Odd DVD-ROM Drive...
Internal 100MB IDE Zip Drive
2 Port PCI USB Card

There's another example of a perfectly stable system, although that one seemed to have screwy USB ports, so a $30 Add-in fixed that...

650MHz Classic Athlon
Motherboard with VIA KT133 Chipset
64MB PC100 RAM
nVidia TNT Vanta 8MB Video board
Built-in sound

There were 2 of these built, and they are both running perfectly stable.

900MHz T-bird Athlon
KT133 Chipset Based Mobo
128MB PC133 SDRAM Dimm
40GB HDD
ATI All-in-Wonder Pro 128
Built-in Sound
old 10BaseT NE2000 compatible ISA NIC

Here's another perfectly stable out-of-the-box machine.

Athlon Classic 550MHz
KT133-based mobo
64MB PC133 SDRAM Dimm
Voodoo3 2000
Built-in sound
40GB HDD

And another one....
There's no shortage of ppl with perfectly stable out-of-the-box Athlons.... You are just ignoring them when they mention it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could go on listing all the unstable Intel Machines that I've had to work with, but this post is long enuff... (The Compaqs are the Worst).

Open your eyes/ears and stop ignoring the fact that Athlons are just as stable and compatible as Pentium-based machines.... you are bound to get problems with either one by putting incompatible hardware into them. VIA may have some issues with some chipsets, but so Does intel.

--Fltsimbuff
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 7, 2001 9:31:12 PM

I hate repeating myself especially in the same thread. So in case you missed it I’m copying this from an earlier post I made in response to someone else.


<b>”…you can’t ignore the fact that there are compatibility issues with VIA chipsets. They are documented and talked about in many places all over the net. Now, I don’t want to get into a big heated debate with you over these issues. But to say that there are no problems with VIA motherboards is a complete fallacy. The latest bug to rear its ugly head is the issue with VIA 686B Southbridge which causes data corruption which can lead to BSOD and system crashes. The problem is compounded if you use a SoundBlaster Live card. And using a SoundBlaster Live card with VIA chipsets is another separate, known and common compatibility problem. The fix for the Southbridge requires a new bios update if one is available for your particular motherboard if one is not available for your motherboard.. then cross your fingers and hope your data doesn’t get corrupted. I have heard that in some VIA motherboards you can adjust the PCI latency and PCI delay settings and other tweaks to fix the Southbridge problem but that solution has not been confirmed. There are other compatibility issues with VIA’s USB controller which affects certain USB devices from functioning correctly.
One only needs to be informed to know about these problems, they are some of the reasons I cannot whole hardly recommend AMD/VIA systems.”</b>


and from another post in this same thread.

<b>“Many tens of thousands VIA equipped motherboards use the 686B southbridge chip. The 686B southbridge chip is used in the majority of AMD mobos, primarily the KT-133 but it can be used with northbridge parts from the Apollo Pro 133, KX-133A and AMD-76x chipsets too.
As mentioned before, a bios update can resolve the issue but it is only a temporary fix, VIA needs to remove the bug from the chipset itself.</b>

Also, there still isnt a fix for the Soundblaster Live! incompatibility issue. Many SoundBlaster owners are having to purchase or use different soundcards until/if VIA fixes the issue with their buggy PCI bus.

(A)bort, (R)etry, (G)et a beer?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by everett6 on 05/07/01 03:40 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 7, 2001 9:40:24 PM

only main reasonof this is that intel set the standards so i hope they have chipsets that can do better with the standars
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 7, 2001 11:09:54 PM

That may be true, but my point is VIA chipsets are not up to snuff. This is exactly why AMD is having a hard time breaking into the Corporate/business market. Do you think the IT staff at xyz company with 5,000 desktops wants to baby sit VIA compatibility problems? No way, not if I have anything to say about it.


(A)bort, (R)etry, (G)et a beer?
May 8, 2001 12:03:41 AM

So what soundblaster live problem are speaking of? I am wanting to know because all of my VIA chipsets have one in them...not saying that the problems doesn't exist just wanting to know what problem...I have seen people say something but have not found any real explanation of it.

Thanks,
Matt

96.3 % of Statistics are made up.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 8, 2001 12:38:40 AM

Quote:
So what soundblaster live problem are speaking of?

Here are a few of the most common ones.

• Sound crackling
• DMA issues
• Sporadic system hangs



(A)bort, (R)etry, (G)et a beer?
May 8, 2001 2:42:57 AM

hmmm, where can I read of these problems? I am not trying to bust balls just curious...I don't want to have problems in the future so I like to check things out.



96.3 % of Statistics are made up.
May 8, 2001 3:37:05 AM

Raystonn, im just curious. do yuou seriously think that system performance would be THAT adversely hurt by using cas2 ddr vs. cas2.5 ddr? i know statistically its a 20% increase in speed, but statistically ddr offers twice the amount of bandwidth of sdr, but in reality it just doesnt happen.
also, are you checking whether you are quoting PC800 or PC600 RIMMS? cause that would make a huge difference also.

<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
May 8, 2001 6:38:29 AM

"are you checking whether you are quoting PC800 or PC600 RIMMS"

I am in fact quoting PC800 RIMMs.

"do yuou seriously think that system performance would be THAT adversely hurt by using cas2 ddr vs. cas2.5 ddr?"

Honestly I couldn't tell you the impact of using CAS 2.5 instead of CAS2. Every benchmark, even dating back to November here on Tom's Hardware, has used PC2100 CAS2 ram. If there isn't a great deal of difference, they should benchmark with CAS 2.5. Then we could compare. It's a bit funny how the reviewers complain about the price of RDRAM while using memory that costs more than it does.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 9, 2001 4:36:35 AM

i think theyre point is that users of ddr systems have other alternatives to the expensive stuff, whereas rdram sytsems can ONLY use rdram. you can see how for the average joe even up to the avid, yet poor pc gamer is going to see the options of ddr a lot more brightly than rdram.

<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
May 9, 2001 6:03:23 AM

"whereas rdram sytsems can ONLY use rdram"

This is why SDR and DDR SDRAM P4 chipsets will be made. They are targetted at a lower price point.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 9, 2001 6:34:17 PM

You can get 256MB of PC2100 RAM at Crucial for $98.99, not including shipping. Granted, this is the CAS 2.5 stuff, so if you want that huge performance increase afforded by CAS 2 then you'll have to shell out more money. The cheapest price on Pricewatch for PC800 RDRAM was $201.

And to put my $.02 in about the stability debate, I've had two Athlon systems so far with VIA chipsets and a SoundBlaster Live! card, and they both worked "out of the box." I'm sure that the people who bought all those Intel motherboards with the faulty MTH will be relieved to know that Intel only puts out quality products with no compatibility problems. Sure, I'm being a smartass, but don't act like Intel walks on water. They have their share of problems just like VIA and any other company that is putting out new products.
May 9, 2001 6:39:28 PM

just so raystonn doesnt have to, ill inform ya on the jive of things. the Crucial memory you speak of is free of shipping charge (as the advertise everywhere you see the name Crucial). Also, you are forgetting that RDRAM require two sticks of identical sizes, so instead of comparing the 256MB price, check out the 2x128MB price, it is quite a bit lower.

<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
May 9, 2001 6:49:21 PM

In reply to the so called VIA/AMD hours of patches and whatnot. That's bogus. I bought an IWILL KK266 mobo, and an Athlon 1ghz (266). Also have Mushkin PC133 Cas2 sdram. I've not had to patch one thing on this motherboard. I did do a bios update, but any good computer nerd would do this first thing. I've rarely gotten a blue screen (my own fault) when overclocking. Right now my 1ghz Athlon is at 1314mhz and stable as hell. I've booted into windows fine at 150x10 at 1.85v. 50% overclock, this chip whoops the 300 celeron and is becoming the greatest overclocking chip ever.
May 9, 2001 7:41:11 PM

So two sticks of 128 MB RDRAM are $166, vs. $201 for one stick of 256MB RDRAM. Cheaper, but I think I'll stick with my DDR for now. I'd forgotten about Crucial's free shipping, thanks for reminding me.

As time goes on, though, price will be less and less an issue when deciding on SDRAM vs. RDRAM. I know that when I chose (again) to go with an AMD processor, I did so for reasons that had more to do with performance and price. Let's face it, there isn't much of a performance difference between a good Athlon system and a good P4 system. Between roughly equal systems, you will probably pay less for the AMD system right now, but this could change in the future. So what engenders such passions on each side either for AMD or for Intel? Part of it is just natural competitiveness when faced with one side vs. another. But I think another part of it is the way Rambus, with the backing of Intel, tried to corner the whole pc memory market with a new kind of memory that was much more expensive than what people were used to. I know this pissed me off and turned me from an Intel supporter to an AMD supporter. So maybe your memory bandwidth is bigger than mine and your P4 has a higher clockspeed, but my Athlon performs about as well and I'm not paying money to Rambus. I'm not saying this is how everyone should think, but it's what makes a difference to me.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 9, 2001 7:57:28 PM

I suggest you go over to <A HREF="http://www.overclockers.com/" target="_new">OverClockers.com</A> and read the new informative articles about VIA chipsets <b>A Lower Standard</b> and <b>When 10% Are Bad, 90% Don't See It</b>. That site deals almost exclusivly with with the AMD/VIA platform and they have pretty much seen it all.


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