I need to make some decisions... Help??

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Hey everyone.

Well I am going to be buying my own computer sometime in the near future, depending on the decisions I need to make. I have 2 computers currently... a AMD K6-350 and a Celeron 466. These are openly used by members of my family and though the Celeron system is mainly used by me, I am going to purchase my own.

Now the main thing bothering me, or should I say the thing that I need some advice/clarification on is about CPU & Motherboard configurations.

I guess one very important question I should ask now... I was thinking of getting Dual CPU so I could get 2 cheaper priced CPU's and still get a fast speed. Is this worth it, or advisable? Forgive me if this is a stupid question but this is one of the areas I am not too sure about.

Also I was thinking is the DDR Motherboard, Memory etc. worth it? Currently here in Australia, AMD and Intel have DDR Motherboards but neither have both Dual CPU and DDR memory as of yet.

What are your opinions? If you need some clarification on some of my questions, please ask. Thank you.
 

JoeHead

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1st off 2 500's don't = 1000. Even in the best of situations. What it can help with is multiple "running" apps. Yeah running not just open and sitting there.

DDR? not sure too much about in a duallie but there isn't much diff in standard especially if running business and web apps. Although if you don't mind investing a few extra bucks, because I assume you need everything amyhow, it can't hurt. Will probally cost an x-tra $100 between mobo and DDR.

I don't think anything is ready for DDR yet and you will never, IMHO, see a doubling of bandwith when using DDR over SDRAM. I'm going for a 133A board. You know with the 133 (266) FSB.

<b><A HREF="http://www.seti.tomshardware.com/" target="_new">How fast is your PC</A></b>
 
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Thanks for your reply. I think I'll just stick to single processor and SD Ram for now. Thanks again.
 
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First of all forget about DDR... its pretty worthless right now there is hardly any performance advantage to it. Get 133mhz Sdram its fast, stable and cheap. Secondly, dual cpu systems are great if you use a lot of apps at one time or are needing to use a specific application that is written to take advantage of it, such as Photoshop. Otherwise you're wasting $$.
Personally here's what I would recommend.
Asus CUSL2 Intel i815E motherboard a 1Ghz EB processor and 512mb of PC133 memory.
I dont recommend AMD/VIA systems right now because of the many known compatbility issues with VIA chipsets. However, if you decide to go with AMD/VIA keep in mind you could spend hours applying patch's, bios updates, drivers and other fixes and even that wont guaruntee that your system will work with new hardware that comes out. The great thing about Intel motherboards is that they work great right out of the box and your pretty much always guarunteed that any new hardware will work perfectly with it.



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Well I guess the "driving" force behind this system is to be a gaming system. However I intend to use it for general use as well... mainly gaming though. =)
 

mjdunn

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I dont recommend AMD/VIA systems right now because of the many known compatbility issues with VIA chipsets. However, if you decide to go with AMD/VIA keep in mind you could spend hours applying patch's, bios updates, drivers and other fixes and even that wont guaruntee that your system will work with new hardware that comes out. The great thing about Intel motherboards is that they work great right out of the box and your pretty much always guarunteed that any new hardware will work perfectly with it.


So you wouldn't recommend anyone buying an intel based system to grab the latest updates?

BTW it doesn't take that long to update everything maybe a half-hour... the drivers that come with the motherboard will work just fine.

But I would always recommend to get latest updates for all you hardware...no matter what chipset you choose.

96.3 % of Statistics are made up.
 
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Yes, I agree to get the latest bios update no matter what chipset is used. Im just saying that with VIA motherboards its mandatory to apply bios updates and drivers because there are compatiblity issues that have hot been resolved which could seriously affect someone's system. With Intel chipsets there are bios updates but they are not "mandatory" as Intel chipset motherboards work right out of the box. No updates required.



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TheAntipop

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i seriously dont understand what compatibility issues people are talking about. i have been using a VIA chipset for the past 3 years and have not had 1 problem. even now with my KT133 i have never had any problems. i only update teh bios out of good habit, not that i need to. mine worked "right out of the box. no updates required." so i say unless you own one it isnt really fair to recommend against it. heres my complete system:
Tbird on an Asus A7V (VIA KT133) 1007
VIA 4-in-1 4.30
256 PC133
Maxtor drive on ATA100
CD-ROM && CD-RW on ATA66
ATI Radeon 32DDR
SB Live MP3+ && Dlink 10/100 nic in PCI


<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
 
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Great.. Im glad to hear it. It's too bad all the other VIA motherboard owners that do have problems cant say that about there systems too.



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khha4113

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<b>It's too bad all the other VIA motherboard owners that do have problems cant say that about there systems too.</b>
I don't have any problem with mine either.
1. Asus A7V with TB 700@850MHz.
2. Abit KT7-Raid w/ TB 700@850MHz.
 

MeldarthX

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For the system you quoted him he could get,

AMD 1.333 T-bird,
760 board,
512 pc2100, *same price as the pc133*

Motherboard will be a little more than the i815, but the AMD processor is still cheaper and far, far better overclocker.

Now we could get into video cards, but the real question is how much is he going to spend? :)

For a good middle ground card, The Kyro II is a great chipset for a card. If he wants more of a theatre card, of course I would have to say that the All in Wonder is really the only chose....:)

I agree with the Dual system, I mean if he was wanting to get into heavy graphics, then I could see the possiblity for it. Most of the time the power is wasted, and Intel's bandwidth mangement for duals sucks.......

DDR isn't worthless, its got its uses......:)

But you can't say that if you go with AMD/VIA that you have to patch and patch and patch. That just isn't the case. The same thing could be said about Intel, but it isn't worth arguing about....:)

Either way he goes.....he will have a nice system...;)

MeldarthX
 

glazenuts

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I can't understand why you even posted. I'm glad you haven't
any problems with your amd setup. However, you are in a very small minority. If you had be readind the many forums on the net you'd know that, So I can only assume your a newbie,As such you should only be seeking opinions, not giving them. I shudder at the thought of rookie getting in over their head due to listening to the ilinformed.

Jeff in LA.
 

TheAntipop

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haha, jeff in LA, youre quite the joker. you were kidding right?

First off, if YOU have been reading the many forums on the internet you would realize that I am NOT in the "very small minority", whereas in fact I am in the majority. maybe you have forgotten what a minority is (it is a group smaller than 50% of the total population).
Second, you have also failed to realize that everyone who posts in these forums are posting there problems, and they can in no way be construed as the majority of the VIA chipset owners. Have you thought about the fact that not many people like me post about having a perfectly trouble free system. So by simple logic, it can be determined that the majority of VIA systesm ARE in fact stable, due to the RELATIVELY few amount of problems seen on the internet.
And finally, how can you possibly accuse me of being a "rookie" giving out my "opinions" when you are in much less of a positino to be talking. You have less than 25 posts on this forum and are a long, long way off of proving YOURSELF to not be a "newbie". I have helped far more people on this forum than you even have posts. So I suggest that instead of attacking me over something you obviously know nothign about, you take a bit of your own medicine and go help people instead of giving opinions as you have amply proven yourself to do on this fine day.

<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
 
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For the system you quoted him he could get,

AMD 1.333 T-bird,
760 board,
512 pc2100, *same price as the pc133*
I disagree with you, the Intel system is much less expensive then AMD. According to pricewatch here’s what he could get. The Intel is about $130 cheaper.

Intel-
INTEL PENTIUM III 1000EB(133MHZ) $206
ASUS CUSL2-C $107
512MB PC133 $93

Total=$406

AMD-
AMD THUNDERBIRD K7 1333MHZ(1.33GHZ) 266MHZ $198
ASUS A7A266 $136
512MB CAS2.5 DDR $200

Total=$534




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G

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Antipop, you can’t ignore the fact that there are compatibility issues with VIA chipsets. They are documented and talked about in many places all over the net. Now, I don’t want to get into a big heated debate with you over these issues. But to say that there are no problems with VIA motherboards is a complete fallacy. The latest bug that has reared its ugly head is the issue with VIA 686B Southbridge which causes data corruption which can lead to BSOD and system crashes. The problem is compounded if you use a SoundBlaster Live card. And using a SoundBlaster Live card with VIA chipsets is another separate, <b>known</b> and <b>common</b> compatibility problem. The fix for the Southbridge requires a new bios update <b>if one is available for your particular motherboard</b> if one is not available for your motherboard.. then cross your fingers and hope your data doesn’t get corrupted. I have heard that in some VIA motherboards you can adjust the PCI latency and PCI delay settings and other tweaks to fix the Southbridge problem but that solution has not been confirmed. There are other compatibility issues with VIA’s USB controller which affects certain USB devices from functioning correctly.
One only needs to be informed to know about these problems, they are some of the reasons I cannot whole hardly recommend AMD/VIA systems. My sister is looking to buy a new PC and has asked me for advice. Even though I like AMD CPU’s I certainly couldn’t recommend an AMD/VIA system to her.




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khha4113

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<b>But to say that there are no problems with VIA motherboards is a complete fallacy. The latest bug that has reared its ugly head is the issue with VIA 686B Southbridge which causes data corruption which can lead to BSOD and system crashes.</b>
You failed to see that his <b>A7V</b>, as well as mine, has VIA 686<b>A</b> that isn't applied to your argument.
 

Crashman

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Former Staff
If someone wants AMD and few if any chipset problems, you should be recommending the Iwill KA266. Although it does NOT make good use of DDR, it will still beet most SDR equiped systems and supports the very fast 1333 processor. It cost a couple hundred more but is still much cheaper than a P4 with better performance than available PIII's.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
 
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Please understand that I wasn’t talking particularly about his system nor yours, but VIA chipsets in general. Many tens of thousands VIA equipped motherboards use the 686<b>B</b> southbridge chip. The 686B southbridge chip is used in the majority of AMD mobos, primarily the KT-133, but it can be used with northbridge parts from the Apollo Pro 133, KX-133A and AMD-76x chipsets too.
As mentioned before, a bios update can resolve the issue but it is only a temporary fix, VIA needs to remove the bug from the chipset itself.




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G

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I cannot recommend DDR either. It cost twice as much as PC133 memory and current DDR implimentations show virtually no performance gains over PC133 platforms. In my line of work there is hardly a day or two that goes by that someone doesnt ask me what computer they should buy. I usually tell them if they want stability without compatibility issues they should purchase and Intel PIII based system with an Intel chipset motherboard. Dell is a good bet. But I also tell them that if they can wait a few months the situation should look better in the form 2nd generation P4 or possibly AMD/nvidia platform.



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mjdunn

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I agree unless you have money to burn stick with sdram. But VIA chipsets are not that bad...they had a huge bug...they fixed it. What's the big deal? What about when Intel goofs? Everybody makes mistakes...hell look at microsoft. Let's say screw amd and intel lets bash microsoft, cmon it will be fun.

If this guy is new to building and doesn't know to get the latest updates...yes he should buy an intel chipset.

They are easier for the novice. With very little help an AMD machine is very easy to build and if you do it right you will NOT have ANY problems.

I have yet to have an AMD/VIA system not work...all of my INTEL/VIA systems have worked too.

I want to see what the amd/nvidia mobo's will be like.

96.3 % of Statistics are made up.
 

TheAntipop

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[quote[I cannot recommend DDR either. It cost twice as much as PC133 memory and current DDR implimentations show virtually no performance gains over PC133 platforms/[/quote]
youre kidding right? ddr memory costs twice as much as pc133? what planet do you live on? unless you are refering to cas2, in which case i still dont think its twice as much. but crucial cas2.5 pc2100 is 115 after shipping. second, on the amd761 chipset, ddr memroy provides a 10-15% increase in speed of a system on average. whiel it may not be that great of an increase, the industry is moving towards some type of data pumped bus and while right now sdr ram isnt that much worse, in a few months the gap will be even more great.

<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A>
 

Raystonn

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Just thought I'd drop some numbers from www.pricewatch.com:

128MB 3.20GB/s RDRAM: $85
128MB 2.10GB/s CAS2 DDR SDRAM: $91
128MB 2.10GB/s CAS2.5 Generic DDR SDRAM: $48
128MB 1.05GB/s (PC133) CAS2 Generic SDR SDRAM: $29

CAS2 DDR is over 3 times as much as PC133. RDRAM is cheaper than it is. CAS2.5 is about half the price of CAS2. All current benchmarks with Athlon systems are using CAS2 DDR memory. It's not clear what the performance penalty would be moving to CAS 2.5 or even SDR in those same benchmarks. It's unfortunate that the reviewers who performed the benchmarks failed to mention that the price of PC2100 CAS2 is greater than the price of RDRAM. I believe the performance/price ratio is greater for RDRAM than for PC2100 CAS2 DDR. CAS2.5 looks a bit better.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
 

TheAntipop

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i assumed we were considering only quality ram chips here, and not the cheap crap that nobody here would ever buy anyway.
and then consider than you have to buy 2 identical sticks of rdram and the 256mb prices for pc2100 and pc133 do get lower.

<A HREF="http://static.stileproject.com/pika.swf" target="_new">Hyakugojyuuichi!!</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheAntipop on 05/06/01 11:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>