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Weirdest problem....

Last response: in Windows 7
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January 18, 2013 4:46:43 AM

So My AMD Phenom II x4 965 BE was hanging now and then. I decided to update the bios for stability with OC. Bios were a fairly old version on the ASUS M5A97 MOBO. All went well - no more hanging while OC'D.

Now for the fun stuff. My computer starts normally but My D-Link Extreme N Wireless Adapter Is not installed. It is now called "Ethernet controller". The only way for me to install the driver is by me physically unplugging the PCI adapter (The D-Link) and plugging it back in while the computer is on. It also instructs me to do this in the D-Link driver installation.

This works and the internet works enough to browse and torrent BUT if I restart my computer the same thing happens again. Found device "Ethernet controller"... Gotta unplug/plug it back into the PCI seat and install the driver. So I learned to live with this by never turning the computer off. I just put it into sleep overnight.

My problem is though it seems the stability of the connection is complete $#^&. Playing games my ping goes up and down all the time and hangs and just isn't playable.

I know enough to check my wifi channels and settings and sniff around. I live in a rural area - there are no other wifi signals around. Just mine. No one else uses the internet. I even called the provider up and everything is just great 15mb connection. I do a speed test to somewhere local and get 16mb/s down 2.5 up 30 ping. What in the hell is going on? There are no PCI settings in the bios I checked everything in there.

More about : weirdest problem

a b $ Windows 7
January 18, 2013 4:50:32 AM

What happens when you use an ethernet cable?
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January 18, 2013 4:51:32 AM

No idea I can't actually try it. Landlord won't allow a cable. Her laptop works fine though with the wifi. She only uses email and stuff RARELY. Also I have admin access through my browser to the router and have fiddled and learned the settings in there. I can get the wireless connection pretty stable with inSSIDer (let's me check signal strength channels etc)
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a b $ Windows 7
January 18, 2013 4:55:48 AM

never plug a pci card in with the power on you damage the card and the pci slot/mb. when you updated the bios you should have updated the mb chipset drivers and then the newest drivers for the devices in your pc. also you should have powered the pc down..depower the mb and clear the cmos. then go in and make sure the mb is at the factory defaults. also make sure the pci irq are set to auto. some times the unreadable card is that way because it sharing an irq or dma range. if it still acts up try turning off the com/printer ports to free up and irq.
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January 18, 2013 5:02:02 AM

That is what I thought.. Never plug in a pci card with power on but the D-Link installation guide literally showed a picture of my tower and mother board with an arrow showing to plug the card in and it said now please plug in the card and hit continue. I figured it was okay with this one or something. It worked too. Before the bios updated all my mb chipset drivers and other drivers were already up to date. All I changed was updating bios. No new drivers were needed. I don't know what PCI IRQ are. If that is a bios setting there is no PCI bios settings. I checked and quadruple checked the bios. "sharing an irq or dma range" ? How do I turn off com/printer ports? Bios has none of those settings.. really crappy bios honestly. I will try cmos clear
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a b $ Windows 7
January 18, 2013 6:02:08 AM

your mb has a built in ethernet port. did you happen to turn it off when you switched to wifi?? realteck network adaptor it may have turned back on. you can try and see if it is on and turn it off in the bios or install the driver for it. to turn the serial port off is right above the ethernet port info. also under advance mode make sure usb 3.0 supprt is set to auto and enabled.
http://www.asus.com/Motherboard/M5A97/#support_Download...
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January 18, 2013 6:09:16 AM

I have already tried switching my onboard realtek ethernet on and off in bios- neither changed anything. Serial port is turned on. Usb 3.0 is set to auto. Still having the issue. Tried clearing CMOS and it cleared the bios to factory but the bios are still the updated bios that I flashed in myself (never had to clear CMOS before so not sure if it is supposed to revert to old bios or not).

THE ONLY way for me to be able to get the driver to successfully install is by unplug/replug the pci wifi adapter WHILE the pc is turned on. WTF? So weird. Should I try turning the serial port off? I haven't tried that but isn't the serial port the mouse/keyboard port?

Also to be clear. I never have used wired internet. Always used this wifi card. It worked fine until I flash updated bios. There are no PCI settings in the bios it does that all automatically. I set all my bios as far as I know to the correct settings and have studied/learned my bios over time.
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a b $ Windows 7
January 18, 2013 6:31:56 AM

I would try and put the card in another slot..see if the error changes. if the error does not..then try this look online to see what chipset the dlink card uses and see if the vendor default chipset driver works better then the dlink one.
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January 18, 2013 6:33:35 AM

Tried both slots and I tried a dlink driver and an atheros one. Both same problem.
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a b $ Windows 7
January 18, 2013 6:36:02 AM

if you can i would rma the card...and or try another brand/usb wifi dongle. may be a bios issue that you cant fix now.
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January 18, 2013 6:46:09 AM

Quote:
I decided to update the bios for stability with OC.

- Does it pass 3x passes of MemTest86+?
- Does it pass 1 hour of Prime95?
- What clock speed is your PCI bus running at? (If you cannot figure it out then don't overclock until you can).

I'd suggest setting your PCI Latency Timer to 64, from 32, as this affects how PCI bus-mastering devices to share the PCI bus. The PCI on your chipset may be 'hanging' off the rest of the south-bridge bridged to the rest of the system via a PCIe channel.
- It's less granular but it has two major advantages: (1) it's more efficient (2) if your PCI bus is overclocked to, say, 40 MHz due to a +20% overclock on the FSB or equiv. BASECLK then the logic on the card is more likely to work as it's not being pushed quite as hard.
- On servers with 66MHz+ PCI slots the PCI Latency Timer is usually set to 64


Other things to try:

1) MSCONFIG, Boot (tab), Advanced Options (btn)
- Tick PCI Lock
- Quote: "PCI Lock. Prevents Windows from reallocating I/O and IRQ resources on the PCI bus. The I/O and memory resources set by the BIOS are preserved." --- Microsoft, Using System Configuration, Applies to Windows 7.

2) After doing the above reflash your BIOS (same version) while not overclocked, it may have inverted a bit or two while flashing overclocked.
- When you do this, see if you can reset the DMI data during the flash (ties in with 1, above).

3) Uninstall the driver in Safe Mode, then re-install it normally.

Once you cold-boot after all that there's a higher chance it will be stable.


The AMD '3rd party' (or not) chipset's can require some serious general chipset/bus knowledge to get stable. Even when not overclocking.


The AMD SB950 chipset (your motherboards south bridge) has two well known bugs
- http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linu...;a=commit;h=73472a46b5b28116b145fb5fc05242c1aa8e1461
- HPET MSI = High Precision Event Timer: Message Signaled Interrupts.

So you may want to DISABLE your HPET in BIOS, as this appears to have a flow on effect with the AMD SB950 south-bridge.


I'm not an electronics engineer, but I do know almost everything about every x86/x64 chipset up until the AMD Opteron™ 200 series era. Most of this 'old school know how' is still relevant today but I hardly get a chance to use it, so I hang around here.
- Thanks for the opportunity of trying to help with your chip-set config.


Monthly rank (January): 61 out of 1067565 (2388 points) [Top 0.006% on forum]
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a b $ Windows 7
January 18, 2013 6:57:08 AM

Do you have any BIOS settings for overclocking the PCI bus?
If you do, make sure PCI clock is set to 33mhz(I think, or default), and do a "Reset configuration data" flush in the Bios. You go into the Bios and set it to enabled and then restart the computer. Or do a clear cmos by pulling the battery or switching the clear cmos jumper.
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January 18, 2013 7:03:18 AM

I will suggest you reset your BIOS to the default and then update again to Version 1503 as that actually Enhances compatibility with some USB devices and also improves system stability.







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January 18, 2013 7:23:22 AM

FYI: Resetting the BIOS to defaults doesn't usually reset the configuration data / DMI data, even if you use CLR CMOS jumper on the mobo.

That said I agree with both memadmax's and Nedal0 comments as they raise valid points.

Sometimes performing a cold while holding down the [Insert] key for 30 seconds will, but even then I'm not sure that this old trick works on modern BIOS's with USB keyboards attached, even if PS/2 emulation is enabled.
^ This one is so old you might not find it using Google.
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January 18, 2013 7:39:00 AM

Scott_D_Bowen said:
Quote:
I decided to update the bios for stability with OC.

- Does it pass 3x passes of MemTest86+?
- Does it pass 1 hour of Prime95?
- What clock speed is your PCI bus running at? (If you cannot figure it out then don't overclock until you can).

I'd suggest setting your PCI Latency Timer to 64, from 32, as this affects how PCI bus-mastering devices to share the PCI bus. The PCI on your chipset may be 'hanging' off the rest of the south-bridge bridged to the rest of the system via a PCIe channel.
- It's less granular but it has two major advantages: (1) it's more efficient (2) if your PCI bus is overclocked to, say, 40 MHz due to a +20% overclock on the FSB or equiv. BASECLK then the logic on the card is more likely to work as it's not being pushed quite as hard.
- On servers with 66MHz+ PCI slots the PCI Latency Timer is usually set to 64


Other things to try:

1) MSCONFIG, Boot (tab), Advanced Options (btn)
- Tick PCI Lock
- Quote: "PCI Lock. Prevents Windows from reallocating I/O and IRQ resources on the PCI bus. The I/O and memory resources set by the BIOS are preserved." --- Microsoft, Using System Configuration, Applies to Windows 7.

2) After doing the above reflash your BIOS (same version) while not overclocked, it may have inverted a bit or two while flashing overclocked.
- When you do this, see if you can reset the DMI data during the flash (ties in with 1, above).

3) Uninstall the driver in Safe Mode, then re-install it normally.

Once you cold-boot after all that there's a higher chance it will be stable.


The AMD '3rd party' (or not) chipset's can require some serious general chipset/bus knowledge to get stable. Even when not overclocking.


The AMD SB950 chipset (your motherboards south bridge) has two well known bugs
- http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linu...;a=commit;h=73472a46b5b28116b145fb5fc05242c1aa8e1461
- HPET MSI = High Precision Event Timer: Message Signaled Interrupts.

So you may want to DISABLE your HPET in BIOS, as this appears to have a flow on effect with the AMD SB950 south-bridge.


I'm not an electronics engineer, but I do know almost everything about every x86/x64 chipset up until the AMD Opteron™ 200 series era. Most of this 'old school know how' is still relevant today but I hardly get a chance to use it, so I hang around here.
- Thanks for the opportunity of trying to help with your chip-set config.


Monthly rank (January): 61 out of 1067565 (2388 points) [Top 0.006% on forum]


I have it set to default clock ever since this started happening just in case it was that. So everything is stock right now. Memtest checks out fine. It runs fine under prime95 and MSI Kombuster. There is no bios setting for PCI bus freq. Only PCIe.

PCI Latency Timer to 64, from 32 - Don't know what or how to do this , if it is a bios setting my mobo doesn't have the setting in bios.

Ticked PCI Lock in msconfig, will try the restart along with a bunch of ideas.

Funny I found that setting to be the only south bridge setting HTEP and I thought hmm.. why not try and disable it. And yeah. It has been disabled since LOL. Just tried it earlier thought it could help.
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January 18, 2013 10:53:40 AM

You need to rule out a faulty card, replace the card with a Known good card. different manufacture if possible.
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a b $ Windows 7
January 18, 2013 11:00:55 AM

When you replace the card, if it's internal (PCI or PCI-E), DO NOT plug it in while the computer is running. That's just asking for you to fry your whole rig and potentially yourself with a crazy shock.
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January 18, 2013 6:22:05 PM

hedwar2011 said:
When you replace the card, if it's internal (PCI or PCI-E), DO NOT plug it in while the computer is running. That's just asking for you to fry your whole rig and potentially yourself with a crazy shock.


I have tried everything. I don't see how updating my bios could have done this but it seems it did. I'm scared to buy a new wifi card because it might just be the mobo's pci slot/config. I have it working and will just have to deal with never turning it off. I had to un-lock the pci msconfig to let me get it working this much again. Cheers everyone.
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January 18, 2013 7:23:04 PM

There is no need to buy any cards now. You will have to deal with the BIOS if you need your system back. Its very obvious the BIOS update caused your USB driver to be unstable.

Sooner or later, you will have more serious issue than you have now if you don't take the time to sort it out now.
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January 18, 2013 10:19:28 PM

Nedal0 said:
There is no need to buy any cards now. You will have to deal with the BIOS if you need your system back. Its very obvious the BIOS update caused your USB driver to be unstable.

Sooner or later, you will have more serious issue than you have now if you don't take the time to sort it out now.


Everything is set right though... No OC. There are no pci settings. No
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January 18, 2013 11:04:08 PM

Let me get something straight. So you are using a PCI WiFi card and not a USB Wifi Card ?
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January 18, 2013 11:11:07 PM

Yes it is a PCI Wifi card. I might upgrade to usb hopefully solving all this BS
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January 18, 2013 11:18:22 PM

Your motherboard seems to have multiple PCI slots on it. Is it possible you are using the wrong slot ?

Also, Have you tried a different PCI slot ?
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January 18, 2013 11:24:08 PM

Yeah I tried both slots many times. Also just checked bios for the 50th time and am 100% sure nothing is set wrong.
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January 18, 2013 11:26:58 PM

If there is anything wrong with the BIOS, you won't see in the settings.

I'm guessing the PCI slot and Card was working before you updated the BIOS right ?
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January 18, 2013 11:30:16 PM

Yes it was. I can still get it to work now but something is not right. I have to unplug/plug in the card while in windows and then install the driver every time I boot for the card to work. Every boot removes the driver. And every time gotta unplug it and re plug it into the pci slot WHILE ON for it to work. Only discovered this through the driver installation program telling me to do this while the computer is on. It is good signal strength when it works but i get this weird internet stuttering every 2 seconds in online video games. Yet my ping is fine too.
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January 18, 2013 11:36:50 PM

This is the reason I'm asking you to downgrade the BIOS to at least 1 version lower.

Right now, you don't really know what the issue is, and using it that way will probably cause a bigger issue in the future.

Have you tried Win 7 startup repair ? Also you might want to check for an earlier restore point when the PCI Card was actually working.

If non of these help then you have no choice but to either downgrade the BIOS or try a USB Wifi Dongle

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January 18, 2013 11:38:38 PM

I think I will flash 1 version back of bios. First thing I tried after flashing the first time was restoring to before the flash. Didn't change anything. I am sure a USB wifi stick would work but aren't they going to be slower no matter what because it's USB?
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January 18, 2013 11:44:51 PM

I think the USB should be just fine. Buy a USB 3.0 WiFi Dongle and if you router is a Wireless N compatible, then make sure you get a Wireless N Card and you should be fine.

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January 19, 2013 1:00:32 AM

I went back 2 versions of the newest bios and now I can install the driver without having to touch the pci slot. Very nice indeed. Problem now though is something isn't right with the card now. When playing online games (tested 3 different games) I get a good/decent ping but ever 1 or 2 seconds me and everyone else stop moving then start moving again then 1 or 2 seconds later we stop moving and start moving again - yet ping is fine and speed test are fine.
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a b $ Windows 7
January 19, 2013 1:18:20 AM

iKronS said:
I went back 2 versions of the newest bios and now I can install the driver without having to touch the pci slot. Very nice indeed. Problem now though is something isn't right with the card now. When playing online games (tested 3 different games) I get a good/decent ping but ever 1 or 2 seconds me and everyone else stop moving then start moving again then 1 or 2 seconds later we stop moving and start moving again - yet ping is fine and speed test are fine.


Honestly, it could be that plugging it in and removing it so many times from when the computer was on may have caused damage to the connector on the card.

Remove the card from the slot and look at the copper connectors (after unplugging the computer first :) ), do they look dirty or dingy? This can happen from excessive removal and insertion into the PCI slot. When you push it in, it is supposed to help remove crud by the pushing motion against the connectors into the slot but it doesn't always work that way. If they are dirty, take a q-tip and try to rub any debris or dirt off but be sure you don't leave any cotton on the connectors.

Just as a side note:
When a vendor provides instruction for installation of a component (such as in this case), they probably have never seen the device they are writing the manual for and never will. I've encountered so many different scenarios over the years where companies are using a generalized installation manual for things such as this and it has not one bit of correlation to the actual product you have.
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January 19, 2013 1:41:11 AM

I cleaned it off same lag problem still
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a b $ Windows 7
January 19, 2013 1:49:47 AM

iKronS said:
I cleaned it off same lag problem still


When you say you are experiencing lag....do we know how much lag it is? It could merely be that your ISP is experiencing server lag or other variables. With online gaming, that is truly the nature of the beast when it comes down to it.

When you run speedtest.net and choose your closest server location, what is the ping response?

Lag when gaming online is a stone that has been thrown thousands of times with no real answer or resolution.
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January 19, 2013 1:58:35 AM

I think I wrote above already I contacted my ISP and everything is fine with my connection. I did a speedtest.net test on a local server and a server far side of north america away from me (I am on west coast and I tested east coast) and both were fine. Locally I get 16 down/ 2.5 up and 30 ping, easy coast server was 4 down 1 up 70 ping. I never had this lag before this problem. It is exactly the same in every game. I describ it as stuttering. My ping is great in the game but ever 2 seconds everyone in the game including me "stops" moving for .5 seconds then contiunes.
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a b $ Windows 7
January 19, 2013 2:08:33 AM

iKronS said:
I think I wrote above already I contacted my ISP and everything is fine with my connection. I did a speedtest.net test on a local server and a server far side of north america away from me (I am on west coast and I tested east coast) and both were fine. Locally I get 16 down/ 2.5 up and 30 ping, easy coast server was 4 down 1 up 70 ping. I never had this lag before this problem. It is exactly the same in every game. I describ it as stuttering. My ping is great in the game but ever 2 seconds everyone in the game including me "stops" moving for .5 seconds then contiunes.


Ok, let's change gears then....

Since I noticed you're a OC'er (had to scroll up to re-read), are you running a stand-alone graphics card or integrated? I would assume stand-alone for the mercy of this. Go and download GPU-Z, start a recording from within the program (I know it can be done just don't remember how), start playing your game and let it freeze up and start back. Go back to GPU-Z and see what your GPU temps are like during the freeze. I'm beginning to think there is something going wonky with your GPU (hence the consistent freeze up no matter what the game) or the CAS latency on your memory is shot to heck due to the OCing (which I've seen happen before believe it or not).

You can get GPU-Z HERE .

Or maybe it was HWMonitor I was thinking about being able to record a strand of time.....either way...you can HWMonitor HERE .
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January 19, 2013 2:21:17 AM

I have HWM GPU-Z and my pref MSI Afterburner and my gpu is just fine. The FPS don't drop when it lags and the have the fan cranked to 100% most of the time so the temperatures are way low.

CAS latency on my memory? My Video card memory or my actual Ram?
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a b $ Windows 7
January 19, 2013 2:26:47 AM

iKronS said:
I have HWM GPU-Z and my pref MSI Afterburner and my gpu is just fine. The FPS don't drop when it lags and the have the fan cranked to 100% most of the time so the temperatures are way low.

CAS latency on my memory? My Video card memory or my actual Ram?


To be honest it could be both.

Try throttling down the OCing you've done to one or the other and see if the freezing continues...it may and it may not. If it continues, try dropping it more. I don't want to tell you to simply reverse any changes and take them back to their defaults because I know how much of a tedious process overclocking is and how long it can take to get something into its "sweet spot" but I'm beginning to wonder what else could be causing it.

Does the "freezing" happen in non-online games? What about if you benchmark your rig?
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January 19, 2013 2:34:22 AM

Oh right, I wrote above too you must have missed once this started happening I set all my clocks to normal just in case. I just made a breakthrough. I was going to run mem test again but with windows running. So I hit the task manager up to shut as much off as I can and I had some weird urge to try a game out with all the garbage processes turned off. Wow.. seems SOMETHING in all my crap is causing the problem. I am playing without the lag *** right now. Thank you all for your help I can probably figure it out from here by narrowing down what process exactly is causing this. Definitely not a virus but gotta be something. Thanks again much appreciated everyone :D 

funny how out of all the crap I went through it was something so simple :) 
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a b $ Windows 7
January 20, 2013 8:59:39 AM

use resource manager instead of task manager.
Open start, type in resource in the search for files box, and it should appear up top.
Much better for finding pesky resource hogs.
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