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getting rid of an arch-lich

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Anonymous
March 27, 2005 6:11:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

have been sc..... by an arch lich.blasted him w/ magic missile then
suddenly he conjured up a minotaur.how do i get rid of him.dont have
any magic resistance yet.have mojo,ac -2 in minetown.

More about : rid arch lich

Anonymous
March 27, 2005 8:10:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Janis Papanagnou wrote:

> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>> king of yasd wrote:
>>
>>> have been sc..... by an arch lich.blasted him w/ magic missile then
>>> suddenly he conjured up a minotaur.how do i get rid of him.dont have
>>> any magic resistance yet.have mojo,ac -2 in minetown.
>> If your experience level is low, arch liches shouldn't appear in Mine
>> Town, and the one you met is likely to be a chameleon, which will turn
>> into another monster, given some time.
>
> ...or it could be a polymorphed creature (polytrap levels and mintown
> levels intersect at dlvl=8), or it could also have been a bones level.

Also, IIRC, monsters will quaff !oPoly, or use /oPoly on themselves. The
following spoiler mentions the wand but not the potion, but muse.c seems to
indicate that monsters can use the potion as well.

http://www.nethack.de/spoiler/32defense.txt

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.
Anonymous
March 27, 2005 9:36:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dylan O'Donnell wrote:

> Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
>>
>> Also, IIRC, monsters will quaff !oPoly, or use /oPoly on themselves.
>
> However, when doing so they'll only polymorph into level-appropriate
> monsters, as opposed to the (almost) free range offered by other
> sources of polymorph.

Cool, I didn't know that. Is this also true if your character zaps a
monster with a /oPoly?

When you say "level-appropriate", I assume you mean to both the dungeon and
character level, i.e. the same criteria for random monster generation?

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 12:03:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

>
> No, only when a monster uses objects itself. I imagine the idea is to
> prevent _utterly_ unfair polymorph incidents like an ex-goblin balrog
> on DL 1; by the time you're in chameleon or polytrap territory,
you've
> at least had some chance to gain means of scouting ahead or fast
> retreat.
>
> > When you say "level-appropriate", I assume you mean to both the
> > dungeon and character level, i.e. the same criteria for random
> > monster generation?
>
> Right, it's a rndmonst() call.
>
> --
> : Dylan O'Donnell :

ok ,YAAD was on xl 7 ,and hp of 75, with couple of hits got reduced to
1,prayed and got back,but there was no escaping the minotaur.also magic
missile had little effect on both the arch lich .and him so will have
left a bones file there.any suggestions how to deal with these guys
after.there are a couple of unicorns (gray,black)running around as well
,who had accepted gems.
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 4:35:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

king of yasd wrote:

> have been sc..... by an arch lich.blasted him w/ magic missile then
> suddenly he conjured up a minotaur.how do i get rid of him.dont have
> any magic resistance yet.have mojo,ac -2 in minetown.

If your experience level is low, arch liches shouldn't appear in Mine
Town, and the one you met is likely to be a chameleon, which will turn
into another monster, given some time.

I'm just not sure whether or not the lich will change form if you leave
the level and come back later. If there is a timer for its next change
that continues to run if you leave the level and come back later, you're
lucky. If the counter only gets decreased while you're on the level, you
should leave and not come back until you're much stronger.

Alternatively, a ring of protection from shape changers might help.

Of course, if you're high level yourself, it might be a real arch lich.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 5:10:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> king of yasd wrote:
>
>>have been sc..... by an arch lich.blasted him w/ magic missile then
>>suddenly he conjured up a minotaur.how do i get rid of him.dont have
>>any magic resistance yet.have mojo,ac -2 in minetown.
>
> If your experience level is low, arch liches shouldn't appear in Mine
> Town, and the one you met is likely to be a chameleon, which will turn
> into another monster, given some time.

....or it could be a polymorphed creature (polytrap levels and mintown
levels intersect at dlvl=8), or it could also have been a bones level.

Janis
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 6:21:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
> Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> > Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> >> If your experience level is low, arch liches shouldn't appear in Mine
> >> Town, and the one you met is likely to be a chameleon, which will turn
> >> into another monster, given some time.
> >
> > ...or it could be a polymorphed creature (polytrap levels and mintown
> > levels intersect at dlvl=8), or it could also have been a bones level.
>
> Also, IIRC, monsters will quaff !oPoly, or use /oPoly on themselves.

However, when doing so they'll only polymorph into level-appropriate
monsters, as opposed to the (almost) free range offered by other
sources of polymorph.

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all." :
: -- A.J. Balfour :
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 8:18:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
> Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
>
> > Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
> >>
> >> Also, IIRC, monsters will quaff !oPoly, or use /oPoly on themselves.
> >
> > However, when doing so they'll only polymorph into level-appropriate
> > monsters, as opposed to the (almost) free range offered by other
> > sources of polymorph.
>
> Cool, I didn't know that. Is this also true if your character zaps a
> monster with a /oPoly?

No, only when a monster uses objects itself. I imagine the idea is to
prevent _utterly_ unfair polymorph incidents like an ex-goblin balrog
on DL 1; by the time you're in chameleon or polytrap territory, you've
at least had some chance to gain means of scouting ahead or fast
retreat.

> When you say "level-appropriate", I assume you mean to both the
> dungeon and character level, i.e. the same criteria for random
> monster generation?

Right, it's a rndmonst() call.

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all." :
: -- A.J. Balfour :
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 5:48:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

king of yasd wrote:
>
> ok ,YAAD was on xl 7 ,and hp of 75, with couple of hits got reduced to
> 1,prayed and got back,but there was no escaping the minotaur.also magic
> missile had little effect on both the arch lich .and him so will have
> left a bones file there.any suggestions how to deal with these guys
> after.there are a couple of unicorns (gray,black)running around as well
> ,who had accepted gems.

Assuming for a moment that the lich is a chameleon and therefore only a
temporary event; even then the other monster, the minotaurus, is real
and far too tough for any character at this stage. The only possibility
seems some instant death (wand of death, cockatrice,...), or to completely
avoid to cross his path.

If, OTOH, it *is* an arch lich - who would be able to teleport to you -
there's also little hope if your character has not got MR and is weak.

But you don't need to go into the mines, you may also skip it.

Janis
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 7:45:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

king of yasd wrote:

> ok ,YAAD was on xl 7 ,and hp of 75, with couple of hits got reduced to
> 1,prayed and got back,but there was no escaping the minotaur.also magic
> missile had little effect on both the arch lich .and him so will have
> left a bones file there.any suggestions how to deal with these guys
> after.there are a couple of unicorns (gray,black)running around as well
> ,who had accepted gems.

You've never clarified whether the arch lich is a chameleon
or a real arch lich (highly unlikely). If it's an arch lich,
don't mess with it until you have a reliable way to engrave
or burn Elbereth in one turn.

The minotaur is a different problem. You will need a sure
kill like a cockatrice corpse or /oDeath or a well thought
out plan. That might include changing your speed or the
minotaur's along with a good ranged attack. Perhaps a
boulder in a strategic spot and a big pile of rocks to throw
at it. The minotaur won't respect Elbereth.
--
Wes
The early bird may get the worm,
but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 4:23:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 3/28/05 6:48 AM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

> If, OTOH, it *is* an arch lich - who would be able to teleport to you -
> there's also little hope if your character has not got MR and is weak.

Can't a chameleon-arch lich also teleport to you? I thought chameleons
got whatever abilities were appropriate to their assumed form.

--
Kevin Wayne

"I came to Casablanca for the waters."
"Waters? What waters? We're in the desert?"
"I was misinformed."
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 6:48:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne wrote:
> On 3/28/05 6:48 AM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>
>> If, OTOH, it *is* an arch lich - who would be able to teleport to you -
>> there's also little hope if your character has not got MR and is weak.
>
> Can't a chameleon-arch lich also teleport to you? I thought chameleons
> got whatever abilities were appropriate to their assumed form.

Yes.

Re-read my first paragraph - and the inserted emphasis - which was:
>> Assuming for a moment that the lich is a chameleon and therefore
>> only _a temporary event_;

So the point was that in this case being able to evade the Lich for
a couple of moves might get you rid of this trouble.

Janis
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 4:12:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

the arch lich was real not a chameleon,thats how he created the
minotaur.since i didnt have any instadeath handy,only option was to
goto wiz mode, which i dislike intensely.so got myself another nice
little tombstone and probably a good bones pile.
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 3:16:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Without giving any context, king of yasd wrote:
> the arch lich was real not a chameleon,thats how he created the
> minotaur.

No difference. Even a chameleon changed into an arch lich would be
able to create a real minotaur. That was also Kevin's point, BTW.

Janis
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 5:29:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

it seemed like a real one ......too bad i yaad'ed before all the
important posts.is there a better way to get rid of arch liches apart
from engraving the E word.also is there a way to id the real and the
chameleon arch liches.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 5:41:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1112218157.014910.100180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, king
of yasd wrote:

> it seemed like a real one ......too bad i yaad'ed before all the
> important posts.is there a better way to get rid of arch liches apart
> from engraving the E word.also is there a way to id the real and the
> chameleon arch liches.

Ring of prtotection from shape changers.

--
Panu
"You haven't really been anywhere until you've got back home",
Twoflower in "The Light Fantastic"
!