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What happened to the E-word ?

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Anonymous
March 28, 2005 11:33:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I was in first level of Sokoban, found a wand, engrave-id it. Create
monster.

I was in first level of Sokoban, surrounded by a bunch of monsters
(spiders, a bat, a Wraith). Nothing I could handle in 1-to-1 fight but a
bit hard in the open.

So, I decided to go for the E-word. Having no insta-graver and no
undullable hard graver, I wrote it with my bare hands.
And every surrounding monster hit me!
Write again in the dust (wiping previous writing). Every monster hit
again! Repeat 2 or 3 times, then try to force the way to a less wide open
place but got killed before anything can be done.

Didn't thing about reading the word, thought that would take time.

Is this possible that the word eroded so quick that monsters could hit
me ? Or maybe something with me not succeeding in writing properly each
time (not keyboard typo -except maybe the first time- I'm sure) ?

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

More about : happened word

Anonymous
March 28, 2005 11:33:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 2005-03-28, Jym <moyen@loria.fr> wrote:
> Didn't thing about reading the word, thought that would take time.
>
> Is this possible that the word eroded so quick that monsters could hit
> me ? Or maybe something with me not succeeding in writing properly each
> time (not keyboard typo -except maybe the first time- I'm sure) ?

If writing in the dust, you have a 1/25 chance of messing up each character.
That means that for the 8 letter word Elbereth, you have a (24/25)^8= 72%
chance of getting it right...

--
Andrew D. Hilton
UPenn Phd Student
March 28, 2005 11:33:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym <moyen@loria.fr> wrote in
news:p ine.LNX.4.51.0503281927160.7472@hagen.loria.fr:

> So, I decided to go for the E-word. Having no insta-graver and no
> undullable hard graver, I wrote it with my bare hands.
> And every surrounding monster hit me!
> Write again in the dust (wiping previous writing). Every monster hit
> again! Repeat 2 or 3 times, then try to force the way to a less wide
> open place but got killed before anything can be done.
>
> Didn't thing about reading the word, thought that would take time.
>
> Is this possible that the word eroded so quick that monsters could
> hit me ? Or maybe something with me not succeeding in writing
> properly each time (not keyboard typo -except maybe the first time-
> I'm sure) ?

You have a pretty good chance of failing if you write Elbereth wit your
bare hands. IIRC you'll only succeed about 65% of the time. The only
other thing that I could think of is that you were confused or stunned
Related resources
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 11:33:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
> Note that writing without a proper device takes time. More than one
> turn, to be more precise.


Except your finger, selected with the - key. That takes one turn.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 1:48:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:

> So, I decided to go for the E-word. Having no insta-graver and no
> undullable hard graver, I wrote it with my bare hands.
> And every surrounding monster hit me!
> Write again in the dust (wiping previous writing). Every monster hit
> again! Repeat 2 or 3 times, then try to force the way to a less wide
> open place but got killed before anything can be done.

Note that writing without a proper device takes time. More than one
turn, to be more precise. To engrave in one turn, use an athame, a wand
or a magic marker.

> Didn't thing about reading the word, thought that would take time.

It doesn't. You can look at where you're standing, at every square on
the level, and at your inventory as often as you like, without using a
single turn. You may also use a stethoscope *once* without using a turn.

> Is this possible that the word eroded so quick that monsters could hit
> me ? Or maybe something with me not succeeding in writing properly
> each time (not keyboard typo -except maybe the first time- I'm sure) ?

That could be another reason. You have a chance of making a mistake when
you try to write something.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 2:20:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Seraphim wrote:

> Jym <moyen@loria.fr> wrote in
> news:p ine.LNX.4.51.0503281927160.7472@hagen.loria.fr:
>
> > So, I decided to go for the E-word. Having no insta-graver and no
> > undullable hard graver, I wrote it with my bare hands.
> > And every surrounding monster hit me!
> > Write again in the dust (wiping previous writing). Every monster hit
> > again! Repeat 2 or 3 times, then try to force the way to a less wide
> > open place but got killed before anything can be done.
> >
> > Didn't thing about reading the word, thought that would take time.
> >
> > Is this possible that the word eroded so quick that monsters could
> > hit me ? Or maybe something with me not succeeding in writing
> > properly each time (not keyboard typo -except maybe the first time-
> > I'm sure) ?
>
> You have a pretty good chance of failing if you write Elbereth wit your
> bare hands. IIRC you'll only succeed about 65% of the time. The only

Must be that.

> other thing that I could think of is that you were confused or stunned

No, wasn't.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym, who just saw a wand of wishing in the DYWYPI screen... Was sure I
engrave-ided all wands... :-((((
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 2:23:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> Jym wrote:
>
> > So, I decided to go for the E-word. Having no insta-graver and no
> > undullable hard graver, I wrote it with my bare hands.
> > And every surrounding monster hit me!
> > Write again in the dust (wiping previous writing). Every monster hit
> > again! Repeat 2 or 3 times, then try to force the way to a less wide
> > open place but got killed before anything can be done.
>
> Note that writing without a proper device takes time. More than one
> turn, to be more precise. To engrave in one turn, use an athame, a wand
> or a magic marker.

Right. Should have done it with wand and not fingers (that explain why I
got so many hits will trying to write).

> > Didn't thing about reading the word, thought that would take time.
>
> It doesn't. You can look at where you're standing, at every square on
> the level, and at your inventory as often as you like, without using a
> single turn. You may also use a stethoscope *once* without using a turn.

For ';' and stethoscope, I new. As well as looking inventory or looking
inside a bag without taking things in it. For reading an inscription, I
didn't know.

> > Is this possible that the word eroded so quick that monsters could hit
> > me ? Or maybe something with me not succeeding in writing properly
> > each time (not keyboard typo -except maybe the first time- I'm sure) ?
>
> That could be another reason. You have a chance of making a mistake when
> you try to write something.

I thought that was only when not in good shape (blind/confused/stun/...)

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 2:44:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:

> For ';' and stethoscope, I new. As well as looking inventory or
> looking inside a bag without taking things in it. For reading an
> inscription, I didn't know.

If you use the : command to see what's on your space, you will also be
told about staircases, traps, graves, ..., and engravings.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 3:27:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> Jym wrote:
>
> > For ';' and stethoscope, I new. As well as looking inventory or
> > looking inside a bag without taking things in it. For reading an
> > inscription, I didn't know.
>
> If you use the : command to see what's on your space, you will also be
> told about staircases, traps, graves, ..., and engravings.

Not in slash'em where you have to explicitely "r." to read it. Yet, it
takes no time to do so.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 12:43:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym <moyen@loria.fr> writes:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Seraphim wrote:

> > You have a pretty good chance of failing if you write Elbereth wit your
> > bare hands. IIRC you'll only succeed about 65% of the time. The only
> > other thing that I could think of is that you were confused or stunned
>
> No, wasn't.

IIRC, your odds to get it written successfully are lower when the
attacking monsters disturb you.

--
Jukka Lahtinen
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 12:53:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jukka Lahtinen wrote:

> Jym <moyen@loria.fr> writes:
>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Seraphim wrote:
>
>> > You have a pretty good chance of failing if you write Elbereth wit
>> > your bare hands. IIRC you'll only succeed about 65% of the time. The
>> > only other thing that I could think of is that you were confused or
>> > stunned
>>
>> No, wasn't.
>
> IIRC, your odds to get it written successfully are lower when the
> attacking monsters disturb you.

But when you write with your fingers, they don't have time to disturb you
because you can write it in one turn.

Doesn't it depend on intelligence how likely you are to get it right?

Raisse, killed by burning scrolls
--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 7:52:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
>>>On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Seraphim wrote:
>>
>>>>You have a pretty good chance of failing if you write Elbereth wit
>>>>your bare hands. IIRC you'll only succeed about 65% of the time. The
>>>>only other thing that I could think of is that you were confused or
>>>>stunned
>
> But when you write with your fingers, they don't have time to disturb you
> because you can write it in one turn.
>
> Doesn't it depend on intelligence how likely you are to get it right?

Don't know whether it should be so, but I could just find dependencies
for the case that the players "state of mind is unsound"...

success rate (writing in the dust)
72% normal
47% blind
29% confused
10% stunned
0.3% hallucinating

(If my math did not mislead me.)

Janis
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 12:22:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
>
>>Jym wrote:
>>
>>
>>>For ';' and stethoscope, I new. As well as looking inventory or
>>>looking inside a bag without taking things in it. For reading an
>>>inscription, I didn't know.
>>
>>If you use the : command to see what's on your space, you will also be
>>told about staircases, traps, graves, ..., and engravings.
>
>
> Not in slash'em where you have to explicitely "r." to read it. Yet, it
> takes no time to do so.
>
> Hypocoristiquement,
> Jym.

You have to explicitly "r." so you don't accidentally break illiterate
conduct. You'd think they'd stop telling you to r. and just give the
message once you've already broken illiterate conduct, but noooooo...

I wonder if there's an option about it...

--
____ (__)
/ \ (oo) -Shadow
|Moo. > \/
\____/
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 3:12:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

micromoog wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
>>Note that writing without a proper device takes time. More than one
>>turn, to be more precise.
>
> Except your finger, selected with the - key. That takes one turn.
>

Anything in the dust is one turn per 19 letters. Athame and engraving or
burning with a wand is one turn per 19 letters as well. Engraving with a
hard object (weapon, hard gem) takes 1 turn per letter.

If you write more than 9 letters, you get the message "You finish
engraving." If you get this, then it takes one FULL turn to write. If
you write 9 or less letters, you can write in a part of a turn if you've
got speed.

This is all from (considerable) wizmode testing just now, not from the
source. There may be something more complicated going on with the
speed/turn system that a source diver can explain, but it's good enough
for me to know 19 letters is safe without speed, 9 is safe with it.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 12:49:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson wrote:

> ,,, but it's good enough for me to know 19 letters
> is safe without speed, 9 is safe with it.

If so, then strategically you should write

Elbereth Elbereth

a mere 17 letters, changing your chance of success
at protecting yourself in a single turn writing with
your finger in the dust from 72% to 92%, a
significant win. [You don't really need the middle
space, either.]

xanthian.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 5:06:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
> Andy Johnson wrote:
>
>
>>,,, but it's good enough for me to know 19 letters
>>is safe without speed, 9 is safe with it.
>
>
> If so, then strategically you should write
>
> Elbereth Elbereth
>
> a mere 17 letters, changing your chance of success
> at protecting yourself in a single turn writing with
> your finger in the dust from 72% to 92%, a
> significant win. [You don't really need the middle
> space, either.]
>
> xanthian.
>

Yes, and this is news to me as well. I've always just written a single
"Elbereth" per turn until I got a huge chain of them; the first few may
not take, but it worked eventually.

It's actually just occurred to me that 19 letters is probably unsafe if
you're around a creature with enough speed, as you'd be obscuring the
writing during its turn even if you manage it all in one of your own
turns. Even a normal speed creature would get in a turn while you're
writing, so if you do chains of "ElberethElbereth" you'd be obscuring
the inscription while the monster attacks.

So 9 letters would be instantaneous, while 19 would be in one turn. It's
almost enough to make me wish I understood the NH speed system.
!