Are psionics overpowered?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

A player in my group wants to play psionics all the time, which is fine
because I let them play whatever they want unless it makes them
overshadow everyone else. I haven't seen too much to make me think
these classes are overpowered (3.5 edition) but several of my players
have been complaining to me about how he outshines them in too many
ways. Maybe he is just putting his character together more
intelligently, I don't know. It does seem that he can deal out more raw
damage than the sorcerer, but then he taps himself faster too. He has
more hit points, yadda yadda, but it seems to me he is about like a bard
-- good at everything but not the best in anything. He is a kineticist
right now. I do admit the stunning stuff has gotten to be a small
problem (I've had to kiss single monster encounters goodbye), but
overall I don't find it unbalancing. I'm only asking here because now
two of my players (the rogue and the sorcerer) are threatening to drop
their old characters and play psionics only because they are so much
more powerful.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Troy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Troy Grengor wrote:
> A player in my group wants to play psionics all the time, which is
fine
> because I let them play whatever they want unless it makes them
> overshadow everyone else. I haven't seen too much to make me think
> these classes are overpowered (3.5 edition) but several of my players

> have been complaining to me about how he outshines them in too many
> ways. Maybe he is just putting his character together more
> intelligently, I don't know. It does seem that he can deal out more
raw
> damage than the sorcerer, but then he taps himself faster too. He
has
> more hit points, yadda yadda, but it seems to me he is about like a
bard
> -- good at everything but not the best in anything. He is a
kineticist
> right now. I do admit the stunning stuff has gotten to be a small
> problem (I've had to kiss single monster encounters goodbye), but
> overall I don't find it unbalancing. I'm only asking here because
now
> two of my players (the rogue and the sorcerer) are threatening to
drop
> their old characters and play psionics only because they are so much
> more powerful.
>
> Any comments would be appreciated.

Remember the limitation on total PP on a single ability at one time,
you can't augment to more than you "caster level". It seems to me
that a high percentage of Psionics are overpowered complaints come
from people who missed that.

Psionisists can shoot their wad faster than anyone else in the game,
typically that means that they are unbalancing for any one encounter.

If shooting your wad DIDN'T make you more powerful than anyone
else there would be a real problem. Make sure your characters have
multiple encounters per day and some degree of time presure.

Are you using any wierd options? The Psionics are different rules
tend to make them a lot more powerful.

DougL

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Do you folks do anything about the overlap of magic and psionics? Like a Dispel
Magic works equally well on psionics, or do you do a % penalty when you try to
mix sources?
--
"... to satisfy the honours and place, I had to leave her in silence ..."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
consul@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com ((remove the INVALID to email))

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Troy Grengor wrote:

>
> A player in my group wants to play psionics all the time, which is fine
> because I let them play whatever they want unless it makes them
> overshadow everyone else. I haven't seen too much to make me think
> these classes are overpowered (3.5 edition) but several of my players
> have been complaining to me about how he outshines them in too many
> ways. Maybe he is just putting his character together more
> intelligently, I don't know. It does seem that he can deal out more raw
> damage than the sorcerer, but then he taps himself faster too. He has
> more hit points, yadda yadda, but it seems to me he is about like a bard
> -- good at everything but not the best in anything. He is a kineticist
> right now. I do admit the stunning stuff has gotten to be a small
> problem (I've had to kiss single monster encounters goodbye), but
> overall I don't find it unbalancing. I'm only asking here because now
> two of my players (the rogue and the sorcerer) are threatening to drop
> their old characters and play psionics only because they are so much
> more powerful.

"AWWK!!! BRAAAK!!! PSIONICS -- ARE -- *NOT* -- OVERPOWERED!!! IN THE
FOUR THOUSAND YEARS OF THE VEEP-NEEP DYNASTY, PSIONICS HAVE *NEVER* BEEN
OVERPOWERED!!! IT IS THIS REASON *ALONE* THAT IS KEEPING US LOYAL TO
OUR QUEEN, HUMAN!!!"

- Psionics Fanboy ^*^

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Keith Davies wrote:

> Treat him like a sorcerer, turned up a bit.
>
> A psionicist can dump a huge amount of power in a short period. If he
> has a chance to recover, then he can outshine others fairly easily.
> However, if he has to ration himself a bit more, that'll bring him in
> line with the others fairly quickly.
>
> I found the same thing with sorcerers vs. wizards. The sorcerer was
> highly tuned for dumping damage[1]. Felt left out when it *wasn't* a
> combat scene, though, since she didn't know much that was useful outside
> combat. Also felt kind of useless if there was more than one or two
> fights per day, since she'd blown all her spell slots.

One shouldn't forget that it's the kineticist that is tuned for doing
damage. I'm currently playing a kalashtar telepath in an Eberron
campaign. He tends to blow his power points on social encounters.
After any significant social encounter is done, he's spent for the day.

Of course, this is a low level campaign, so it should really be expected
that I run out of Power Points easily. It doesn't help that I always
feel the need to fully augment my powers, either.

Still, most combat oriented telepathy powers tend to be Will Negates,
producing all-or-nothing effects. This reduces his effectiveness in
combat. (Me: "I use Mind Thrust." DM: "He makes his save. He takes no
Damage." Me: "Again?!")

I'm also running a Dark Sun campaign using the rules from Dungeon and
Dragon magazines, augmented with the rules from http://www.athas.org.
Naturally, there's plenty of psionics. The primary manifester in the
party is an elan shaper. Since the campaign is combat heavy, he spends
most of his Power Points on Astral Constructs. For the most part, he's
a support character– using his powers to aid others in the use of their
abilities rather than having a direct effect himself.

Of course, the original poster was concerned about the damage aspect,
and the psion in question is a kinteticist. So, in that respect, it's
best to liken him to a typical sorcerer. I guess I just wanted to say
that psions tend to encourage a bit more variety due to their forced
specialization.

Tialan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat wrote:

> "AWWK!!! BRAAAK!!! PSIONICS -- ARE -- *NOT* -- OVERPOWERED!!! IN
THE
> FOUR THOUSAND YEARS OF THE VEEP-NEEP DYNASTY, PSIONICS HAVE *NEVER*
BEEN
> OVERPOWERED!!! IT IS THIS REASON *ALONE* THAT IS KEEPING US LOYAL TO

> OUR QUEEN, HUMAN!!!"

Dude, you're in a mood today. Did you swallow somehting shiney along
with your dinner?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

~consul wrote:
> Do you folks do anything about the overlap of magic and psionics?
Like a Dispel
> Magic works equally well on psionics, or do you do a % penalty when
you try to
> mix sources?

IMC they are totally seperate entities having nothing to do with one
another, but psionics are also rare enough in my games that that works
best.

If I were going to use them often and use magic often as well i'd
probably say that psionics uses the same energy and is just another
word for innate magic (I might do away with sorcerers at that point as
well). Otherwise, I'd say there's overlap and have a roll. base of
25% with a feat that allows up to 50% and 75% and maybe an epic feat
for 100% so that you can use a dispell, but it's not a 100% likely to
work. Make sense?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Anivair wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
>
>
>>"AWWK!!! BRAAAK!!! PSIONICS -- ARE -- *NOT* -- OVERPOWERED!!! IN
>
> THE
>
>>FOUR THOUSAND YEARS OF THE VEEP-NEEP DYNASTY, PSIONICS HAVE *NEVER*
>
> BEEN
>
>>OVERPOWERED!!! IT IS THIS REASON *ALONE* THAT IS KEEPING US LOYAL TO
>
>
>>OUR QUEEN, HUMAN!!!"
>
>
> Dude, you're in a mood today. Did you swallow somehting shiney along
> with your dinner?

You don't know the half of it, evidently.

- Ron ^*^

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Troy Grengor wrote:
>
> A player in my group wants to play psionics all the time, which is fine
> because I let them play whatever they want unless it makes them
> overshadow everyone else. I haven't seen too much to make me think
> these classes are overpowered (3.5 edition) but several of my players
> have been complaining to me about how he outshines them in too many
> ways. Maybe he is just putting his character together more
> intelligently, I don't know. It does seem that he can deal out more raw
> damage than the sorcerer, but then he taps himself faster too. He has
> more hit points, yadda yadda, but it seems to me he is about like a bard
> -- good at everything but not the best in anything. He is a kineticist
> right now. I do admit the stunning stuff has gotten to be a small
> problem (I've had to kiss single monster encounters goodbye), but
> overall I don't find it unbalancing. I'm only asking here because now
> two of my players (the rogue and the sorcerer) are threatening to drop
> their old characters and play psionics only because they are so much
> more powerful.
>
> Any comments would be appreciated.
>
> Troy
>

Only one person in my group plays a psionic (in fact a kineticist) and
so far it
hasn't been a big problem. In one encounter, the character used their
PPs up
right away and had to become a second-rate fighter for the rest of that
game day.

If you only have one encounter a day, a psion might overmatch the party,
but even
then you can non-combat situations (traps, roleplaying dilemmas) where
brute force
isn't the best solution.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Actually somewhere in the Psi HB, and other sources (cant recall where
exactly right now) there is mention that Anti-magic fields work against
Psi's...

Just my 2 copper

DR

 

[Dan]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:01:52 -0500, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net>
gibbered into the void:

>
>
>Anivair wrote:
>> Werebat wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"AWWK!!! BRAAAK!!! PSIONICS -- ARE -- *NOT* -- OVERPOWERED!!! IN
>>
>> THE
>>
>>>FOUR THOUSAND YEARS OF THE VEEP-NEEP DYNASTY, PSIONICS HAVE *NEVER*
>>
>> BEEN
>>
>>>OVERPOWERED!!! IT IS THIS REASON *ALONE* THAT IS KEEPING US LOYAL TO
>>
>>
>>>OUR QUEEN, HUMAN!!!"
>>
>>
>> Dude, you're in a mood today. Did you swallow somehting shiney along
>> with your dinner?
>
>You don't know the half of it, evidently.
>
> - Ron ^*^


Would the other half be the Pkunk?


Personally I was always more fond of the Orz...


I am *expanding*! It is so much *squishy* to *smell* you! *Campers*
are the best. I have *anticipation*, and then what? Better *parties*
in the *middle* for sure.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

DR wrote:

>Actually somewhere in the Psi HB, and other sources (cant recall where
>exactly right now) there is mention that Anti-magic fields work against
>Psi's...
>
>Just my 2 copper
>
>DR
>
>
>
I believe that any spell that effects magic, also effects psionics
and vis versa. This is a balancing issue. Otherwise psionics gets
"around" magical protection and becomes very powerful.

--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-- Anatole France

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

>>Actually somewhere in the Psi HB, and other sources (cant recall where
>>exactly right now) there is mention that Anti-magic fields work against
>>Psi's...
>>

> I believe that any spell that effects magic, also effects psionics
> and vis versa. This is a balancing issue. Otherwise psionics gets
> "around" magical protection and becomes very powerful.

If you treat psionics as magic yes, optionally you can choose to treat
psionics as different, though then this causes a lot more balancing
issues, usually those with spell resistance will also then have power
resistance though this is usually then the spell resistance.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

It has been brought to my attention that Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>
>Troy Grengor wrote:
>
>>
>> A player in my group wants to play psionics all the time, which is fine
>> because I let them play whatever they want unless it makes them
>> overshadow everyone else. I haven't seen too much to make me think
>> these classes are overpowered (3.5 edition) but several of my players
>> have been complaining to me about how he outshines them in too many
>> ways. Maybe he is just putting his character together more
>> intelligently, I don't know. It does seem that he can deal out more raw
>> damage than the sorcerer, but then he taps himself faster too. He has
>> more hit points, yadda yadda, but it seems to me he is about like a bard
>> -- good at everything but not the best in anything. He is a kineticist
>> right now. I do admit the stunning stuff has gotten to be a small
>> problem (I've had to kiss single monster encounters goodbye), but
>> overall I don't find it unbalancing. I'm only asking here because now
>> two of my players (the rogue and the sorcerer) are threatening to drop
>> their old characters and play psionics only because they are so much
>> more powerful.
>
>"AWWK!!! BRAAAK!!! PSIONICS -- ARE -- *NOT* -- OVERPOWERED!!! IN THE
>FOUR THOUSAND YEARS OF THE VEEP-NEEP DYNASTY, PSIONICS HAVE *NEVER* BEEN
>OVERPOWERED!!! IT IS THIS REASON *ALONE* THAT IS KEEPING US LOYAL TO
>OUR QUEEN, HUMAN!!!"

HARG! HARG! HARG! You think 3.5 PSIONICS are OVERPOWERED?! Clearly you
never saw the Psionics of Culture 2.0!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

It has been brought to my attention that Troy Grengor
<Tgrengor@cox.net> wrote:

>
>A player in my group wants to play psionics all the time, which is fine
>because I let them play whatever they want unless it makes them
>overshadow everyone else. I haven't seen too much to make me think
>these classes are overpowered (3.5 edition) but several of my players
>have been complaining to me about how he outshines them in too many
>ways. Maybe he is just putting his character together more
>intelligently, I don't know. It does seem that he can deal out more raw
>damage than the sorcerer, but then he taps himself faster too. He has
>more hit points, yadda yadda, but it seems to me he is about like a bard
>-- good at everything but not the best in anything. He is a kineticist
>right now. I do admit the stunning stuff has gotten to be a small
>problem (I've had to kiss single monster encounters goodbye), but
>overall I don't find it unbalancing. I'm only asking here because now
>two of my players (the rogue and the sorcerer) are threatening to drop
>their old characters and play psionics only because they are so much
>more powerful.

Psionics aren't more powerful. Honestly. Sorceror gets more utility
stuff, and he has the same hit dice as the psion.