BUG: redundant/confusing intrinsic-acquisition message

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(I have submitted this to the development team.)

Synopsis:

When you acquire an intrinsic through experience-level change,
then eat food that would give you that same intrinsic, you see a
message that incorrectly implies you lost and regained the
intrinsic.

Steps to reproduce:

1) In wizard mode, start a new monk of any alignment or gender.
2) #levelchange the monk to level 13.
3) See the message "You feel warm!"
3) Wish for a blessed tin of white dragon meat.
4) Eat the tin.
5) See the message "You feel full of hot air."

The second message suggests that your character didn't already
have cold resistance. (When I first encountered this, I thought
that a gremlin had stolen an intrinsic.)

Suggested fix:

If a character has an intrinsic, then does something that would
grant the intrinsic if the character didn't already have it,
NetHack should not display a message suggesting the character
just acquired the intrinsic.

Notes:

The same behavior occurs for any intrinsic that a character can gain
by both level change and eating: cold, fire, poison, shock, and
sleep.

If you invert the acquisition order -- eat meat first, gain level
second -- you don't see the redundant message.

While monks are most handy for exposing this problem, my testing
suggests this happens for all roles acquiring intrinsics with
experience.

The redundant message does not occur for intrinsics gained at
level 1. For example, if you start a new valkyrie, then eat white
dragon meat, you will not see the "hot air" message.


--
Bobby Schmidt
 
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In news:<2005040400255316807%BobbySchmidt@maccominvalid>, Bobby Schmidt
<BobbySchmidt@mac.com.invalid> says...
> (I have submitted this to the development team.)

TDTTOE.

> Synopsis:
> When you acquire an intrinsic through experience-level change,
> then eat food that would give you that same intrinsic, you see a
> message that incorrectly implies you lost and regained the
> intrinsic.

Not redundant. Food-gained intrinsic is different, and the game should
tell the player about it. Food-gained intrinsic is kept even if you are
level-drained below the level for acquiring level-gained intrinsic.

> [...]

> Suggested fix:
> If a character has an intrinsic, then does something that would
> grant the intrinsic if the character didn't already have it,
> NetHack should not display a message suggesting the character
> just acquired the intrinsic.

No. Because of reasons above.

> Notes:
> The same behavior occurs for any intrinsic that a character can gain
> by both level change and eating: cold, fire, poison, shock, and
> sleep.

"By design" is the answer.

> If you invert the acquisition order -- eat meat first, gain level
> second -- you don't see the redundant message.

Because, IIRC, if you already have food-gained intrinsic then level-
gained is not of interest. TDTTOE.. ;)

> [...]
> The redundant message does not occur for intrinsics gained at
> level 1. For example, if you start a new valkyrie, then eat white
> dragon meat, you will not see the "hot air" message.

Again TDDTOE, since you cannot be level-drained below level 1 (and
survive) there is no reason to inform the player about getting the
(otherwise interesting) extra benefits of food-gained intrinsics.

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Gurl fnl gung lbh pnaabg gehfg fpebyyf bs ehzbe.
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Bobby Schmidt wrote:

> (I have submitted this to the development team.)
>
> Synopsis:
>
> When you acquire an intrinsic through experience-level change,
> then eat food that would give you that same intrinsic, you see a
> message that incorrectly implies you lost and regained the
> intrinsic.
>
> Steps to reproduce:
>
> 1) In wizard mode, start a new monk of any alignment or gender.
> 2) #levelchange the monk to level 13.
> 3) See the message "You feel warm!"
> 3) Wish for a blessed tin of white dragon meat.
> 4) Eat the tin.
> 5) See the message "You feel full of hot air."
>
> The second message suggests that your character didn't already
> have cold resistance. (When I first encountered this, I thought
> that a gremlin had stolen an intrinsic.)

I thought so too at first (I also noticed this with a monk), but this
message is actually useful -- it lets you know that you will now retain the
intrinsic even if you lose the level.

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 4/4/05 3:25 AM, Bobby Schmidt wrote:
> (I have submitted this to the development team.)
>
> Synopsis:
>
> When you acquire an intrinsic through experience-level change,
> then eat food that would give you that same intrinsic, you see a
> message that incorrectly implies you lost and regained the
> intrinsic.

Wrong. The message is intended to let you know that you've gained the
intrinsic in a manner that you will keep regardless of level. If you
gained the intrinsic merely as a result of levelling up, you could lose
it by level loss; not so with intrinsics conferred by eating.
>
> Steps to reproduce:
>
> 1) In wizard mode, start a new monk of any alignment or gender.
> 2) #levelchange the monk to level 13.
> 3) See the message "You feel warm!"
> 3) Wish for a blessed tin of white dragon meat.
> 4) Eat the tin.
> 5) See the message "You feel full of hot air."
>
> The second message suggests that your character didn't already
> have cold resistance. (When I first encountered this, I thought
> that a gremlin had stolen an intrinsic.)

You'll notice that the two messages are not the same, indicating a
difference in the nature of the intrinsic granted.

--
Kevin Wayne

"I came to Casablanca for the waters."
"Waters? What waters? We're in the desert?"
"I was misinformed."
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In message <yy7oacoecvio.fsf@css.css.sfu.ca>, Benjamin Lewis
<bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> writes
>Bobby Schmidt wrote:
>
<Snip a possible bug report>
>
>I thought so too at first (I also noticed this with a monk), but this
>message is actually useful -- it lets you know that you will now retain the
>intrinsic even if you lose the level.
>

Please don't let the non buggyness of you bugs put you off submitting
more reports though dude. I'm sure TTD would rather see non bug emails
than miss real bug reports.
--
Leon Coles