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About AMD processor

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Anonymous
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May 17, 2001 10:18:09 PM

Sorry about the long post, but I'm in need of a good advice.

I'm planning on buying a whole new AMD system.
What I'm planning to buy is the K7 master MS6341 as a motherboard with 1.33Ghz processor (266 FSB)
If I researched correctly, I'll need a PC2100 DDR
And I'll also need a Volcano2 heatsink.
So here are some of my questions:

1)
Some sites gave me some options on the processor, If I want an axia core, I have to pay $18. Is it worthed, and if it is, can you tell me why? (I've never heard anything about this)

2)
It also gave me an option to get a silicon thermal compound. Is it necessary (It's only 2 bucks)

3)
Here's the complete price list that I got:
CPU+MotherBoard = $385
Fan: $ 29
Axia Core $ 18
Memory (256MB) $ 84
IBM 60GXP $150
Do you think this is reasonable?

thx

More about : amd processor

May 17, 2001 10:28:17 PM

first question do you plan on overclocking

if yes
you want the axai becuase it over clockis better
you also want a better heatsink
you will want to get artic sliver2 thermal past



if no
then you go with the cheaper ship
and just use the thermal pad on the heatsink


where are you getting the memory form
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 17, 2001 10:37:38 PM

No, I don't plan to overclock, but what's the effect if I bought the axia core though?
As for the memory, I'm planning to buy them online. I picked the PC2100 Micron electronics 256 Mb
I saw the Cosair PC2400, I don't know what the effect is, so I didn't pick that (besides, it's just too expensive right now)
Oh, btw, I'm planning to put GeForce3 on the computer, I'm thinking of buying the hercules version for $400. Do you think that's going to be a problem?
Related resources
May 17, 2001 10:52:04 PM

The AXIA is higher quality and easier to overclock. Thermal grease is best for ensuring maximum contact between the CPU and heatsink.

Your total for your AMD based system (CPU+HSF+mobo+RAM) was $516. If you are happy with this that's fine. To be honest you'll get less than a 10% performance boost from the DDR memory on current AMD based systems. You might want to reconsider your memory and get twice as much non-DDR.

If you'd like to hear some other (non-AMD) options, then read on. Don't flame me for providing alternatives. The more alternatives we have, the better competition, and hence prices, will be.

For $150 more than your listed AMD based system you can get a P4 1.7GHz with the same 256MB total RAM you had planned on getting earlier.

Retail P4 1.7GHz (includes heatsink, fan, 3 year Intel warranty) = $363
Motherboard = $147
Memory(2*128 = 256MB) = $156
Total = $666

This system is a bit faster in non-optimized applications (slower in some) than the AMD system you mentioned, and an order of magnitude faster in optimized applications.

Get whatever your pocketbook can afford.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 17, 2001 10:57:35 PM

do you mine crucial by micron or just micron chips on another persons pcb

go to crucial.com
the are micron chips one micron boards and they are go quality at a good price

just look and it is 80 dollars with free shipping
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 17, 2001 11:03:20 PM

Hmm, that reminds me, about the memory thing...
I saw 150Mhz sdrams, are they compatible with current motherboards?
and I've checked for the prices, the price range between the DDR and the SDram is not alot now, it's just about 10 bucks
(for Micron memory chips anyway ...) That's why I decided to use the ddr
As for picking AMD over pentium ...
I dunno, I'm just a benchmark freak ...
Anonymous
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May 17, 2001 11:09:32 PM

hmm, about that site ... I saw something strange ... there are 2 types of 256MB chip, the 32Megx64 and 32 Megx72
64&72 is the bandwith?
May 17, 2001 11:16:46 PM

(Prices from http://www.pricewatch.com):

Prices for DDR SDRAM are 70% more than that of PC133 SDRAM for CAS2 and well over 2 times more for non-CAS2. You will want to get CAS2 memory whether you get SDR or DDR SDRAM. It gives a nice performance boost. You will likely get better performance with 512MB of SDR SDRAM than you will with 256MB of DDR SDRAM, no matter which CAS rating you get. This will eliminate much more virtual memory swapping. Accessing the hard drive is terribly slow.

$156 for (2*128MB) 256MB PC800 (DDR RDRAM)
$118 for 256MB PC2400 CAS2 (DDR SDRAM)
$76 for 256MB PC2100 CAS2.5 (DDR SDRAM)
$69 for 256MB PC133 CAS2 (SDR SDRAM)
$35 for 256MB PC133 CAS3 (SDR SDRAM)

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Raystonn on 05/17/01 04:34 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 17, 2001 11:19:02 PM

No, the '72' is parity memory, error checking. The 64 is non-parity. The non-parity memory will run slightly faster than its parity counterpart, but does not check for errors.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Anonymous
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May 17, 2001 11:21:00 PM

Well, like you're saying, since the CAS2 is more expensive, I'm not going that way, so I'm taking the middle road (between the SDram and the DDR cas 2, which is the DDR cas2.5, which has the same price with sdram, so why go to sdram? and I think 256 MB of memory is enough,
512 MB of SDram memory is too much don't you think?)
May 17, 2001 11:21:52 PM

let me gusse you got those off price watch and that they aren't hight quality parts praobally
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 17, 2001 11:25:53 PM

do you mean the whole thing or the memory part?
Well, I did a little research, and all I know that k7 master is the most suitable board there is now for me (to avoid those VIA problems)
and I did checked for the price range, and I pick one with the most sense.
I know the brand, and all of them came with factory waranty.. so what else do I need?
May 17, 2001 11:36:42 PM

You will likely get much better performance from the (cheaper) 512MB of CAS3 SDR SDRAM than you will from 256MB of CAS2.5 DDR SDRAM. Please check my above post again as I just updated it with CAS2.5/3 prices.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 18, 2001 12:23:22 AM

Forget the 256 DDR 2.5cas rating, get 512 PC 133 Cas2.
Trust me the 512 mb of ram will improve overall system performance more than the 256DDR 2.5cas!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 18, 2001 1:06:05 AM

Does the CAS latency make THAT much of an improvement? All of the comparisons I've seen between CAS 3 and CAS 2 SDR RAM show very little performance increases, a few percentage points at best. I haven’t seen any direct comparisons of CAS 2 DDR vs CAS 2.5 DDR so correct me if Im wrong, but I would assume that the performance difference between the two would be negligible in most apps as well.


Relax, its only ONES and ZEROS!
May 18, 2001 3:48:29 AM

You guys seem to be missing something, he has already stated that he wants to use the MSI k7 master 6341, a motherboard in which supports only DDR Ram. This makes the argument of 512 SDRAM vs 256 DDR moot. And even this argument in and of itself has certain flaws. You will only notice an improvement in performance with the 512 SDram if the apps he is using require large amounts of Ram. 256 is more than enough for most games. If using apps like 3d studio max, adobe photoshop and the like then yes you have a valid point. However, another option is to consider using 384 meg of DDR.

Considering that he seems to be at the max of his budget, my suggestion would be to opt for a slightly slower processor, like the 1.2 gig 266 FSB athlon. With the saving upgrade the memory options to 256 or beter yet 384 megs of pc-2400 cas2 DDR. To get the 1.33 gig processor then choke it with slower Ram does not seem to make sense. You still have the option of overclocking the 1.2 gig processor ( by the way, your chances of getting an axia or avia core with any 266 fsb processor is very good, paying a premium just to insure it is a waste).

Also, with the purchase of the DDR ram, if in the future the user decides to get a new motherboard, chances are that he will have a much better chance of using the Ram he has now, where the Sdram might be obsolete. This too has to be considered.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
May 18, 2001 5:21:51 AM

And for those who claim DDR is more expencive today i ordered 1 DIMM of Crucial PC2100 None Buffered None Parity 256MB for <b>$87</b> with shipping but it is true the preformance gain isnt that great but for a high end system i think its worth it

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
May 18, 2001 10:11:03 AM

The price of DDR from crucial has dropped in recent days and is now in line with SDR.

256MB DDR PC1600 • CL=2 • Unbuffered • Non-parity • 2.5V • 32Meg x 64 CT3264Z202 $79.19
256MB DDR PC2100 • CL=2.5 • Unbuffered • Non-parity • 2.5V • 32Meg x 64 CT3264Z265 $79.19

256MB SDRAM, PC133 • CL=3 • Unbuffered • Non-parity • 7.5ns • 3.3V • 32Meg x 64 CT32M64S4D75 $79.19
256MB SDRAM, PC133 • CL=2 • Unbuffered • Non-parity • 7.5ns • 3.3V • 32Meg x 64 CT32M64S4D7E $83.69


Others will probably follow suit. So right now would probably be a good time to invest in DDR.

<font color=blue>Elephants are the only animals that can't jump. Just as well!</font color=blue>
May 18, 2001 1:06:11 PM

Are those brand memory or generic/house?

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details
May 18, 2001 2:22:41 PM

Micron


<font color=blue>Elephants are the only animals that can't jump. Just as well!</font color=blue>
May 18, 2001 7:04:37 PM

don't you know what crucial memory

if you don't itis micron chips on micron pcb board
May 18, 2001 8:26:10 PM

"256MB SDRAM, PC133 • CL=3 • Unbuffered • Non-parity • 7.5ns • 3.3V • 32Meg x 64 CT32M64S4D75 $79.19"

Market price for that is actually about $35, not $80. You are being overcharged for SDR SDRAM at that site. CAS3 SDR SDRAM is less than half as much as CAS2.5 DDR SDRAM.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 18, 2001 11:08:21 PM

yeh but why would anybody get cas 3 ram
May 19, 2001 1:33:31 AM

Quote:
The price of DDR from crucial


Hey - I apologise I just read a couple of replies and re-read your post and realise I'd looked at it but not READ it the first time. Sorry for the crap question...

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details
May 19, 2001 1:57:27 AM

i bought 256mb cas3/pc-133 el cheopo stuff from a local electronics store. i now have the memory running at cas2/143mhz and everything works great, as long as i don't push it past 143.

is this reality... i thought it would more realistic.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 19, 2001 4:39:35 PM

hmm, I've seen the solutions posted here ...
Actually, I'm pretty flexible. I can pick any motherboard that you guys might have in mind. But the problem that I had was about the compatibility of the motherboard with geforce cards and soundblasters. I've heard bad things about VIA motherboards, (I've read somewhere that k7master is actually a via chipset also, but I was betting on the fact that it's based on 761 chipset, so it wouldn't cause any problems)
so that's why I picked the K7master.
Anyway, as for the memory ... I'm still considering whether or not I should buy 512Mb of memory, but the thing is, prob I don't need it (I think 256Mb is enough to open up 10 application at one time), so I decided the 256meg instead. As for the PC2400 CAS2 ... I'm still not sure about it. I've never even heard of the company that's making it. Deciding PC2100 cas2 on the other hand ....
May 19, 2001 5:05:53 PM

As for incompatibilities with GeForce and VIA, the two don't have a great history of getting along. I got my GeForce working on an old KX133 mobo at 4x with fast writes enabled, but I'm thinking I was just lucky.

The AMD750, the original Athlon chipset, had major problems with the GeForce because of the GeForce's massive power requirements. Fortunately, that board is ancient history.

As for AMD760 motherboards...the majority of them are hybrid motherboards--an AMD761 northbridge chippaired with a VIA686B southbridge. The AMD761 northbridge handles the AGP slot, memory interface, and CPU interface; the VIA southbridge handles the PCI slots, IDE controllers, AC97 audio, AMR slot, and floppy controller. I'm not sure which one handles the USB/COM/LPT ports, the northbridge or the southbridge.

Currently I've found the AMD761 northbridge to be great handling AGP. AMD's AGP driver for the chipset is WHQL-certified, which--even coming from Microsoft--indicates that the AGP interface and driver is very stable. I know of no WHQL certified driver for VIA chipsets; even Microsoft wasn't really able to get one up to snuff.

I've heard mostly good things about the ALi MAGiK 1 chipset, though I have no experience with it.

Kelledin

bash-2.04$ kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
May 19, 2001 5:07:52 PM

As for incompatibilities with GeForce and VIA, the two don't have a great history of getting along. I got my GeForce working on an old KX133 mobo at 4x with fast writes enabled, but I'm thinking I was just lucky.

The AMD750, the original Athlon chipset, had major problems with the GeForce because of the GeForce's massive power requirements. Fortunately, that board is ancient history.

As for AMD760 motherboards...the majority of them are hybrid motherboards--an AMD761 northbridge chip paired with a VIA686B southbridge. The AMD761 northbridge handles the AGP slot, memory interface, and CPU interface; the VIA southbridge handles the PCI slots, IDE controllers, AC97 audio, AMR slot, and floppy controller. I'm not sure which one handles the USB/COM/LPT ports, the northbridge or the southbridge.

Currently I've found the AMD761 northbridge to be great handling AGP. AMD's AGP driver for the chipset is WHQL-certified, which--even coming from Microsoft--indicates that the AGP interface and driver is very stable. I know of no WHQL certified driver for VIA chipsets; even Microsoft wasn't really able to get one up to snuff.

I've heard mostly good things about the ALi MAGiK 1 chipset, though I have no experience with it.

Kelledin

bash-2.04$ kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
May 19, 2001 7:32:21 PM

What not go with the Asus A7A266? I've seen several benchmarks that show that the ALi chipset is quite stable, although not as good a performer, compared to Via based mobos. For that matter, the performance was only a few percentage points behind the A7M266 (I don't recall the exact numbers). Plus you can start with PC-133 SDRAM, and then upgrade to DDR later. I agree that saving some money on a less expensive processor right now, and putting it into other components is a good idea.

My brain has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down
May 20, 2001 9:56:38 AM

I agree, that slight performance lag with ALi chipsets is worth the fexibility and stability it offers.

girish

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
May 21, 2001 3:14:15 AM

what site(s) are you talking about where you can select the type of core you want?

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 21, 2001 3:37:48 AM

I dont know what reviews you've been reading but even Tom says ALI is not ready.

<b>"ALi has still got a chance for success once the quality problems have been eliminated. Right now however, the only thing ALi Magik 1 has going for it is its low price."</b>

Keep your words soft and sweet 'cause you never know when you'll have to eat 'em.
!