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P4 the real high-end cpu

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May 22, 2001 7:45:27 AM

AS you all know P4 have the best brute power over anything.

1 p4 have win the benchmark over tbird.It depend on the way you see it. Tbird have win the sysmark who include some software like excel,dreamweaver,photoshop.My old comp can easely run excel or word.So the real tests are the game.Even video encoding which i never use anyway.If that take so long to encode (like 5 min) i will sit in front of my comp, even if it take 30 minute i will go watch tv, it's the same for cd writer, i'll take the cheapest, 10min or 30min does'nt really care anyway i will do something else.
So it's all abouth gaming and reliability.

2 We all know that when p4 will have sotware optimise for it he will simply kick the (PEEP) of AMD.

3 when all software will support it, the p4 will be much more powerful. His lifetime is much highier than a t-bird.

5 he cost more, SO WHAT you can keep it longer.

6 warrenty: intel have a super one, P4 is reliable and stable, he dont have a over-heating probleme like AMD does.
I even saw a marchant that rufuse to sell Duron prossesors cause they were much of the time blowing,burning....So they just stop selling thoes cause they were not making money out of it .

7 I dont trust AMD chipset and there mobo.

More about : real high end cpu

May 22, 2001 8:20:16 AM

Pentium 4 not have a heating problem? Really, you should get out a little more. Why do you think intel is nervous about athlon 4. You put a p4 into a lap top and all you will have is an expensive frying pan.

If you are investing in your pc's future performance, then i would seriously suggest taking an introductory course in finance.

-- Chaos is the better order.
May 22, 2001 9:34:33 AM

Another person with intelitis. I think you'll find the TBirds are better at brute force with the better fpu and all.


<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
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May 22, 2001 10:11:19 AM

anyway try compare teh clock speeds...
just wait for the athlon 4... mmm... nicely overclocked with a bit of cooling (btw where can i get some 2700 ddr?)

you do not strengthen teh weak by weakening the strong
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 22, 2001 11:55:37 AM

I don't understand any of you guys ... why are you always bickering about which CPU is better ..?
Are you working for the company?

For me, so what if Intel P4 or AMD athlon is faster, all I know that for the price right now in the market, I look one suited for my pocket and to get the most of it. If you keep on defending a processor that you own/trying to buy just because you bought it ... that's really sad.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 22, 2001 12:09:49 PM

Another bozo who's seen one too many Blue Man commercials....
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 22, 2001 1:39:30 PM

I can understand why most people defend a CPU. Most of the time they either work for that company or own stock in it. I can understand why there are so many AMD fanatics.. AMD is alot smaller than Intel and thus the chances of AMD dying are alot greater. AMD fanatics want to see AMD hit 50/50 with Intel so they'll both be fighting it out forever keeping prices low and innovation high. They feel the need to go around trying to convince everyone to switch to AMD. AMD however has awhile to go before it can equal Intel. Intel fanatics I can only guess why they dedicate themselves.
May 22, 2001 1:48:11 PM

And whatever processor you pick, it will run all the games and existing applications without difficulties.


<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
May 22, 2001 5:00:11 PM

I agree. Right or wrong, people take sides. They like an underdog, and AMD definitely fits that role when going against ChipZilla. Some people say it's stupid to argue about Intel vs. AMD, but for a hobbyist the choice of processor is often a highly personal one. It categorizes your computer more than any other component. You don't say "I have an nVidia or ATI system" or "I have a Western Digital or Maxtor system." Rather, the first thing you say is "I have an AMD system" or "I have an Intel system." It's only natural to take sides, since people want to think that the processor they chose is the best. When someone says, for whatever reason, that an AMD or Intel processor is a piece of crap, then you want to defend that processor since it's sitting there inside that computer that you are so proud of. I'm not saying everyone is like this, but I think some people are and it seems to be part of what drives the whole AMD/Intel flame wars.
May 22, 2001 5:46:43 PM

one thing true all cpu can easely run any software.
May 22, 2001 6:11:06 PM

Juin, two suggestions. The first is, if english is your first language, then please try to sound coherent as well as be able to string a sentence together without screwing up tenses, proverbs, and what not. I understand people wanting to take an informal approach to their posting, but you've gone way to far, and you come across as a eight year old child. Now, if english is not your first language, I apologize.

Second I suggest that you at least make an attempt to figure out the different people on the board, as it will only help your cause. That way, you can get a better idea of the responses you will get. You will also learn more about the CPU you're hawking beside the company PR. And also, before you go shooting off your mouth like this, remember that there are many people here who know a lot more about CPUs and programming than you, me, or any other part-time computer enthusiast. So, when you go off about how the P4 is a prime-time CPU, ready to send AMD to an early grave, you would do better to remember that people here have their own preferences, and that each CPU has its own strengths and weaknesses.

The P4 is unable to compete with Athlon's FPU, but the P4 can beat the Athlon sensless in video encoding, or other memory bandwidth intensive applications... and Quake 3, for some odd reason. Also, remember that those benchmarks that you are quoting are using P4 optimized code only, no optimization for the Athlon, so it's an unfair comparison. And also remember that when it comes to real-life applications and performance, unless the difference is ~6-10%, the end-user will not really notice a difference.

Also, to say that the lifetime of the T-bird is shorter than the P4 is false. Right now, as it stands, the life times of both are the same, regardless of "code optimizations." They both are the high-end of the CPU spectrum, and, like any other high-end computer part right now, only has a useful life span of around 24-36 months. Period. Code be damned, CPUs of today will be obsolete (end of usefulness) in 2003, 2004.

Also, you "statement of fact", saying that Intel has a better warrenty/reliability is a blatent lie. Both Intel and AMD have a 3 year warrenty, if you get a boxed CPU. Both Intel and AMD have reliable, stable processors, (not counting older K6-2s or P3 1.13GHz), and both Intel and AMD have chipsets that offer rocksolid stability, but also chipsets that weren't exactly ready for sale.

Anything that "blows" an AMD CPU is sheer user error. If you don't know how to put a heatsink on, you shouldn't do it. Intel has the added measure that if the user is unable to properly affix the HSF, it will shut down. Big deal. Even with Intel, CPUs that don't run because of that are again user error, and the user should not be putting a system together. Now, will a P4 run if the HSF isn't put on right? No, it won't. Now, this is conjecture, but I wonder if the thermal protection is enough to prevent CPU damage to a P4? The P4 runs at near Athlon heat, so it would be a valid question. Sure, it may run afterwards, but will it be unharmed? I don't think it would be.

The idea that a merchant would discontine selling a processor because it required the purchaser to get a new one from that merchant if the killed the first is stupid. I can't think of any merchant who would cover user-incompetence as a reason for a refund or replacement. I know Best Buy won't (Umm... I poured water into my system, and it killed it... will you fix it?) You'd probably be laughed out of the store. A merchant would look at you and say, "why didn't you have someone else do it that knew how?" and proceed to charge you for a new processor.

This went on way too long, but I felt that after reading this post, and others of yours, that I needed to say something before you became yet another lamer (or precieved as) on this board. God only knows that we have more than enough as it is.

-SammyBoy

Without Evil, there can be no Good. Therefore, without an Intel, there can be no AMD.
May 22, 2001 7:02:31 PM

1 my primary language sais le francais (i speak french)

2 when a cpu blow-up or have any probeme that not the marchant who pay it,but the compagny like amd,but dont forget time is money.They must do the shipping and the time he pay his personal.So at the end he pay too.That was my point.

3 If we check actual benchmark on TOMHARDWARE ok AMD win the office,but his the game that really need power.

4 lifetime of a cpu
I use a old p200 who is trully obsolete is really slow,my bro use a p2 300 with a voodoo 2 he still run JOHN MADDEN 2001 easely and BALDUR GATE 2 wich is 2 good game.

5 I dont know for the US but in CAN most of the computer are not package deal like compaq or dell.You go at a store you chosse you cpu....and is done.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 22, 2001 9:46:56 PM

"1 my primary language sais le francais (i speak french)"

I also speak french.. as my second language.. Dutch is my first. Sorry to say, but i wouldnt go to any German forum to post unreadable, and not very interesting messages. If you have a question, we'll try to help (heck, post in French, I'll be happy to translate). But to post nosensical intel PR in un-understandable English is not going to make you much friends here.

"3 If we check actual benchmark on TOMHARDWARE ok AMD win the office,but his the game that really need power."

If you'd read them, *and* understood them, you'd realize its not the cpu power you need, but its the videocard that determines your gaming satisfaction. *Any* 900+ Mhz cpu will do (maybe even the VIA Cyrix III..). The only difference between a 1 and 1.5 Ghz cpu is almost any game, is timedemos run at 640x480. Nobody plays 640x480 anymore (well not on a P4/Tbird I hope).. and nobody cares wether the system scores 200 or 220 frames per second in that resolution.

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
May 22, 2001 10:49:18 PM

So is all stability so why AMD.
May 23, 2001 2:59:55 AM

"i have a wester digital or maxtor"
what about IBM? seagate? huh huh huh?
ibm rocks lol
just thought i would be really pedantic for the thousandth time

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you have created"~Darth Vader, Star wars
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 23, 2001 3:59:00 AM

L'Athlon est aussi tres vite. La Pentium 4 est tres cher. Je n'a pas d'argent pour une Pentium 4. C'est dommage!
May 23, 2001 4:02:28 AM

Obtenez vous ce que vous payez... ;) 

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
May 23, 2001 6:15:18 AM

Mais non, Juin..

Most computers in Canada are sold as package deals.
Dell, Compaq, Gateway, IPC, Touch, etc.....
with all the CPU is an option.
May 23, 2001 6:37:08 AM

n'importe qui achète un a brûlé offre de Amd est un stupide


"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 23, 2001 6:57:04 AM

Babelfish right ? what are you trying to say ?

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
May 23, 2001 8:02:31 AM

<b>n'importe qui achète un a brûlé offre de Amd est un stupide</b>
I wonder who looks stupid here!
May 23, 2001 9:01:43 AM

Nice try... No, actually it wasn't.


<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 23, 2001 11:15:14 AM

Hi,
I am to prepare an HW about P4 architecure. So i urgently need some knowledge about the topic in a plain english so i can understand. I've already checked out the article in this site. Can you tell me about the other references? Thanks,
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 23, 2001 12:37:16 PM

you're attempt in french is <how you say ?> Merde, don't give up your day job
May 23, 2001 1:17:10 PM

1/2 of the people that bitch about cpus in here haven't even started work yet, let alone own stock!!!!! I think there is one 'outed' Intel employee on the forum, who I happen to think posts very sensibly and believes in the architecture his company uses, one lurking Via chap and no AMD reps? Most pepople on here defend a cpu because they are too brain dead to let it drop and don't have the cognitive capability to post an opinion that is not insulting, childish or plain rude about something of absolutely no value to the computing world at all.

And as a footnote, there are also a lot of non-brain dead grown ups who usually post worthwhile things defending cpus when they really ought to know better. :smile:

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by peteb on 05/23/01 11:23 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 23, 2001 2:19:14 PM

"tu madre da buen cabeza"
see. being bilingual is not always a good thing
May 23, 2001 2:30:18 PM

You say that the P4 kicks the Athlon a$$ in games?

Yea in quake but what about UT and many others???

Before u make broad statements like that u need to check you facts or have some links to back it up!<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q2/010423/p4-05.html" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q2/010423/p4-05.html&...;/A> It just makes u loose creditability and when your new u have none so I would say your in the negatives right now.

Thx & cya


<font color=green>I may go to <font color=red>hell</font color=red> but at least I won't get lonely</font color=green>
May 23, 2001 3:07:35 PM

Hei do you realy care about what is write on cpu INTEL or AMD. Any cpu over 700Mhz is enough for single user .
Do you realy can feel the difference in games betwin 45 fps and 80 fps ? I use power cpus for linux servers (databases, mail servers, webservers). So duron 750+ deccent mb +256 M = 50$ +100$ +80$ =~230$ what abbout intel prices. If p4 sollutin will be at same price (with athlon instead of duron) i will buy intel may be.
May 23, 2001 8:26:37 PM

On the contrary... that was perfect French.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 24, 2001 12:31:18 AM

My IT guy has intelitis, I made him buy an athlon workstation for me over a P3 but he put a huge loud fan on it, so the mobo fan power supply died and after some intensive modelling the processor got hot and crashed - then again a week later on the replacement puter, to AMD's credit both times the computer could be started up again with out trouble once the cpu temp came down to normal. So IT guy swapped it for a P4, you know how the AMD caused the fan to use too much power and blow the supply!!!! :-) , anyway the P4 system used what sounded like the same fan and woops what do you know...the fan stopped on that system too !!

By the way I couldn't notice the difference between the two using FEA, CFD or CAD/CAM work.
May 24, 2001 1:21:21 AM

Finite element analasys and Computational fluid dynamics are very demanding applications where bandwidth wins every time. P4 wins this arena hands down flat out asskicking! next best thing to P4 @ FEA and CFD would be to use a number of SGI boxes in a cluster.

I wish I could post numbers for northwood (NDA) CFD times on a 48 gig model (yes its huge but it will tax the system to max(I like saying that)) I know you have nothing to base the results on other than telling you that a quad r12ka Origin 2000 server running turbolinux is the closest performing (able to beat P4) machine at a ungodly price difference.

Northwood beats up the O2 and Zx10 badly and octane2 is workstation class vis system.

Nice to see some real professionals here for a change.

Side note, we also have a Itanium running CFD by fluent, www.fluent.com makes northwood look like a 8080 @ 4.77Mhz (for those that claim there are no 64bit apps for Itanium, take that and shove it deep)

I build/Install these systems daily.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 24, 2001 1:31:58 AM

we dont do finite analysis fugger, so who cares
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 24, 2001 2:44:06 AM

I'm fairly new to the CFD world, is my newest toy hehe, have only run small models (< half million cells) using cfx 5 at the moment.

We are actually looking at a high end system for computational purposes (has been included in next years budget), but a bit reserved about making a descision on a system before I know its what I want.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts. Personally I know very little about anything other than AMD or Intel, so I would have put together a dual processor system, when possible, outta either of those.......but haven't put that much thought towards it yet.
May 24, 2001 3:46:11 AM

Does P4 beat T-bird when SEE2 is support by the software you can saw a benchmark in P4 150% faster that prove it in some way. ADOBE was done it.EA John Madden have sse2 code so probaly next nhl,fifa,Triple play 2002 will have it and all the others.
May 24, 2001 10:20:38 AM

Thank you for being so open about your work and why you believe that Intel have some good chips.

We know the P4 is very good in bandwidth limited apps but most people only want it to run their current apps well and few of those are bandwidth limited. The P4 will really shine across the board when Northwood comes along, the massive reduction in average latency will see to that. It might even match the Athlon clock for clock. That, along with its higher frequencies will mean that AMD will have problems competing at the high end unless Apaloosa and Thoroughbred have more architectural changes as well as the expected larger L2. Of course we will have to ask the question "Why do you need a computer that fast?"

L
May 25, 2001 3:20:22 AM

The point is that P4 is limit by the software because they dont need all that power, so in the end high-end software use high-end cpu.
May 25, 2001 5:45:15 AM

Juin -- Think about it. Does your post make sense? Most the current software came out before P4. If Intel wanted to serve its customers, the P4 should be at least as good if not better for current software. If Intel was doing its job, it wouldn't need software companies to "help" it to look good. Would it?

If P4 is "limited" by software, it's Intel's choice -- future market domination over serving current customers. However, it may not work out. I mean SSE2 is nice, but what prevent AMD adopting it? After all, Athlon-4 already has SSE(1). In the meantime, the ultra-long pipeline is proven to be not very efficient, and that is why P4 suffers in benchmark tests despite higher clock speed. Therefore, even if high-end software all optimized for SSE2 (a big if) in the future, P4 may not have an advantage there while still lagging behind in mainstream applications.

**Spin all you want, but we the paying consumers will have the final word**
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 25, 2001 6:52:18 AM

"Why do you need a computer that fast?"

hehe, isn't that like asking "how long is a piece of string?"
May 25, 2001 8:32:56 AM

If why take normal use

Photoshop,Dreamwever,all microsoft office,Baldur gate 1,2 and expensiont set,fallout 2,internet,view some video,music,i will start soon my school so c++ novell windows,cisco,others server stuff,diablo 1,2 ,homestead personnal,NHL 98 to 2001 johnMadden 2001..........I forgot a alot

There only one software i use that wait for me to click is photoshop.Photoshop is faster with wich cpu????
All directx8 game support SSE2 so there will all be faster on a P4.John madden support SSE2 so probaly next NHL will support it too.When i buy a computer i think not for now but for in 2 year.For now any duron 700 can run this software easy.In 2 year does AMD will shine like he done now????? think SSE2 future and is more stable.The part i hate the most is even my computer have crash and is been 4 hour that i have save.The time i will save with a P4 is bigger that with a AMD.We buy faster cpu to save more time on your job,game.Have the pride to use real cpu not a copy.If you not belive my go check the little history of AMD.

A la fin sais le P4 qui a gnagné.
May 25, 2001 8:38:14 AM

n'importe qui achète un a brûlé offre de Amd est un stupide
I wonder who looks stupid here!

For the french part ???????
If you want a translation of what i think you have write

Nimporte qui n'achete pas un AMD est stupid.

I wonder i am right on what you trying to say in french.
May 25, 2001 9:12:42 AM

I don't know if you replied to me or not, but it seems that was my post and I <b>did not</b> try to translate that sentence, just <b>wondering</b>.

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
May 27, 2001 8:30:30 AM

In any case that was poor french.
!