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Help needed - very early wand of wishing

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April 18, 2005 2:59:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Disclaimer - I posted this a few days ago via Google's beta interface,
and have yet to see it show up on that or the old one, so I'm
reposting. If this really did propogate, my apologies.
---

I'm in a situation I've never encountered before. I'm on dungeon level
2, and have in my monk's stash a (0:3) wand of wishing. I've died a
few times with unidentified wands in my inventory, but I've yet to
actually identify a wand of wishing before the castle (and I've only
hit a castle a handful of times).

As you can see below, I have little more than the starting inventory.
Dungeon level 2 had a general store with an id scroll in it, so I did
what I always do in that situation, and gathered up everything of
worth in the shop. I started with an uncursed scroll, so I read the
one from the shop hoping it would be blessed and I'd get lucky and do
a full inventory id. I received 3 ids, and the first 2 went towards a
soft gem and wand that had been in the shop. The 3rd one I used to id
the wand I had found lying on the ground right near the upstairs.
Imagine my shock when it came back as wand of wishing (0:3) :) 

I'll use the first wish for 3 blessed scrolls of charging, and
probably boots of speed after that. I'm Chaotic, so I'm thinking that
the Key would be nice to have. I don't have magic resistance though,
so an amulet of reflection and cloak of magic resistance could prove
to be very useful. Magicbane would solve the magic resistance problem,
as would the eyes if I can live that far :)  Even something simple like
a magic whistle could prove useful. I would love to have a blessed
spellbook of identify, but I don't know what the failure rate would
be. Perhaps combined with a helm of brilliance I could cast Identify
at an acceptable rate. And then of course Gauntlets of Dexterity would
help out a lot with my martial arts damage, while a blessed bag of
holding would mean I could carry a ton of loot around. And if I tackle
the mines, some form of light would be nice, as being a human monk I
lack infravision.

I have far too many options, and things that I would like, but some of
them I might pick up in mine town or Sokoban.

My plea to the group, help me spend some wishes :) 


----

Kyphros the Candidate St:18/01 Dx:11 Co:11 In:11 Wi:13 Ch:10
Chaotic
Dlvl:2 $:0 HP:24(24) Pw:12(12) AC:4 Xp:2/39 T:948

Armor
a - a blessed +2 pair of leather gloves (being worn)
b - an uncursed +1 robe (being worn)
Comestibles
f - 4 uncursed food rations
g - 5 uncursed apples
h - 6 uncursed oranges
i - 3 uncursed fortune cookies
l - 3 food rations
n - a guava
o - 3 eggs (unpaid, 36 zorkmids)
p - a tripe ration (unpaid, 20 zorkmids)
Scrolls
d - an uncursed scroll of identify
r - a scroll labeled PRIRUTSENIE (unpaid, 133 zorkmids)
u - a scroll labeled ANDOVA BEGARIN (unpaid, 133 zorkmids)
A - a scroll labeled VENZAR BORGAVVE (unpaid, 133 zorkmids)
C - a scroll labeled READ ME (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)
D - a scroll labeled FOOBIE BLETCH (unpaid, 106 zorkmids)
E - a scroll labeled TEMOV (unpaid, 106 zorkmids)
Spellbooks
c - a blessed spellbook of protection
Potions
e - 3 uncursed potions of healing
j - an emerald potion
m - a clear potion
w - a murky potion (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)
x - a smoky potion (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)
z - an emerald potion (unpaid, 66 zorkmids)
B - a brown potion (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)
Wands
k - a wand of wishing (0:3)
Tools
s - a lock pick (unpaid, 26 zorkmids)
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 5:55:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james wrote:
> I may be the only one with this much bad luck, but I have found the
> castle wand at 0:1, engraved with it once, wished for the 2 blessed
> scrolls of charging (got 1), and then engraved again, and the wand
> evaporated. (Wrested the last charge.)
>

Why would you engrave with a wand of wishing more than once?

theKapn
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 6:16:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james wrote:

> theKapn <thekapn1310@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why would you engrave with a wand of wishing more than once?
>
> To get the next wish, of course.

I think "theKapn" was wondering why you would not just "zap" it. I was
wondering the same thing.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Evelyn the dog, having undergone further modification, pondered the
significance of short-person behavior in pedal-depressed panchromatic
resonance and other highly ambient domains... "Arf", she said.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 6:20:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james wrote:
> In article <1113857711.781657.137730@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> theKapn <thekapn1310@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Why would you engrave with a wand of wishing more than once?
>
> To get the next wish, of course.

I'm no source diver, but I always just zap the wand to get a wish after
the first engrave test. Does engraving with the wand increase the
chances or evaporating if all charges have been used up?

theKapn
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 6:35:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Dlvl:2 $:0 HP:24(24) Pw:12(12) AC:4 Xp:2/39 T:948
> I'm Chaotic, so I'm thinking that the Key would be nice to have.


Warning!!!

I'm not very experienced, but I do believe that if you wish for the
Key it might zap you even if you're chaotic. If so, you might want
to have a bit more than 24 hitpoints before trying that (not sure
how much zapping can effect you).

Good luck.
Knnn.
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 7:00:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james wrote:

> Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
>
>> I think "theKapn" was wondering why you would not just "zap" it. I was
>> wondering the same thing.
>
> Perhaps due to a misconception on my part, concerning cursed wands.
> There's a reason to Engrave not Zap, but I can't think of the reason.

Hmm, you appear to be correct -- it looks like a cursed zapped wand has a
1% chance of exploding, but engraving with it bypasses this check.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Evelyn the dog, having undergone further modification, pondered the
significance of short-person behavior in pedal-depressed panchromatic
resonance and other highly ambient domains... "Arf", she said.
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 7:21:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Mike wrote:

> My plea to the group, help me spend some wishes :) 
>

The identify spell is very nice at low levels. However, it costs 15 mana,
which you don't have yet, so even if you can get it at a good failure
rate, you may need to prepare for a lot of sitting around waiting for mana
to come back. (i.e. get lots of food, camp at dlvl 1 for awhile with the
doors locked)

How confident are you that you can finish Sokoban? This will give either
an amulet of reflection or a bag of holding, both potential wish
candidates.

You'll get magic resistance from your quest artifact, so a cloak of magic
resistance may not be your highest priority, since you'd be throwing it
away after the quest.

Master Key of Thievery is a fine choice for a chaotic monk, since your AC
will probably be worse than par for much of the game. Magicbane is a poor
choice IMO because in general you'll do better punching things than poking
them.

Other useful items that I don't think are important enough to wish for,
but may prove useful: oilskin cloak, amulet of life saving, any artifact
weapon.

Unfortunately, being a monk, you're not in a position to wish for a dragon
scale mail, since that'll stick a -20 on your chance to hit. Maybe later
in the game, when you're very high level.

I would probably wish for:

1) book of id
2) scrolls of charging, if the one you're holding isn't
3) helm of brilliance, if you're at 100% fail on id [note: if you're at
about 80% fail on id, you're still in okay shape, because after 7
good casts, your divination skill will go up and knock your fail rate way
down. There are probably enough spoilers out there to figure out your
cast chance ahead of time.]
4) speed boots or master key
5) save for whichever sokoban does not provide
6) save for a rubber chicken for master kaen
7) wring for something useful after the quest, like a marker

If you've never used a wand of wishing before, you may wish to consult
this site so that you don't spell anything wrong:
http://www.nethack.de/spoiler330/wishing-330.txt

- Matt
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 9:33:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Matthew Lahut wrote:
> Unfortunately, being a monk, you're not in a position to wish for a
dragon
> scale mail, since that'll stick a -20 on your chance to hit. Maybe
later
> in the game, when you're very high level.

I dont think you have to be very high level to wear body armour as a
monk and still hit, I recently ascended a monk wearing SDSM (which
helped my AC a heap!), and I found that if your wearing gauntlets of
power (interfer slightly with spellcasting, but I found that
negligable, especially as I was wearing a robe for most of the game,
and extra strength increases chance to hit), having a weapon at +3 or
+4 (also increases chance to hit), preferably at basic skill or above
will allow you to hit most of the time. If he uses a wish on a
gauntlets of strength, a +3 weapon, then a 3 blessed scrolls, he should
be more than able to hit whilst wearing body armour most of the time.
April 18, 2005 10:32:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <8f5ca221.0504180959.46457bbe@posting.google.com>,
Mike <kyphros@gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm in a situation I've never encountered before. I'm on dungeon level
>2, and have in my monk's stash a (0:3) wand of wishing. I've died a
>few times with unidentified wands in my inventory, but I've yet to
>actually identify a wand of wishing before the castle (and I've only
>hit a castle a handful of times).

I may be the only one with this much bad luck, but I have found the
castle wand at 0:1, engraved with it once, wished for the 2 blessed
scrolls of charging (got 1), and then engraved again, and the wand
evaporated. (Wrested the last charge.)

Most times, in order to wrest the last charge, I have to lock myself in
a room, #adjust the wand to "z", and "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
for a few hundred turns. This time, the wrest happened the first try.
Great.

ID the wand before you zap it.

So what do you want from the wand, regardless of when you find it?
Ususally, the list includes, in no particular order: Reflection,
Magic Resistance, Magic Cancellation, Carrying Capacity, Fixed Luck,
Teleport Control, and Speed.

Any of these is worth a wish if you don't have it already.

> C - a scroll labeled READ ME (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)

If that's charging, you can use the first wish on a blessed magic marker
instead.
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 1:06:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Mike wrote:

> I'll use the first wish for 3 blessed scrolls of charging, and
> probably boots of speed after that. I'm Chaotic, so I'm thinking that
> the Key would be nice to have. I don't have magic resistance though,
> so an amulet of reflection and cloak of magic resistance could prove
> to be very useful. Magicbane would solve the magic resistance problem,
> as would the eyes if I can live that far :)  Even something simple like
> a magic whistle could prove useful. I would love to have a blessed
> spellbook of identify, but I don't know what the failure rate would
> be. Perhaps combined with a helm of brilliance I could cast Identify
> at an acceptable rate. And then of course Gauntlets of Dexterity would
> help out a lot with my martial arts damage, while a blessed bag of
> holding would mean I could carry a ton of loot around. And if I tackle
> the mines, some form of light would be nice, as being a human monk I
> lack infravision.
>
> I have far too many options, and things that I would like, but some of
> them I might pick up in mine town or Sokoban.
>
> My plea to the group, help me spend some wishes :) 

The wand is at (0:3) This gives you potentially 7 wishes.

1 - scrolls of charging
2 - speed boots
3 - source of magic resistance. If you had been neutral, I would have
suggested the Eye. Go for a cloak of MR instead. Magicbane you have to
wield, and unless you are gifted with Sting/Grimtooth you'll be restricted
in dagger.
---recharge--
4 - You're a spellcaster. Go for a +Identify. Your wis is poor, but that is
exercisable.

Do sokoban. On your way there, if something turns up with a nasty wand you
can't handle, wish for "oReflection, but otherwise put it off until you see
what you get.

5 - If you don't get reflection in sokoban, wish for the amulet. Otherwise,
perhaps the Key for half damage?

otherwise

6 - Helm of Brilliance. Start working on your divination skill.

Do the mines.

7 - Bag of Holding if you don't find one there. Otherwise save the wish for
magic marker or whatever.

Good luck,
Sidsel
April 19, 2005 1:07:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1113857711.781657.137730@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
theKapn <thekapn1310@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Why would you engrave with a wand of wishing more than once?

To get the next wish, of course.
April 19, 2005 1:31:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <yy7ooecbwztq.fsf@css.css.sfu.ca>,
Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:


>I think "theKapn" was wondering why you would not just "zap" it. I was
>wondering the same thing.

Perhaps due to a misconception on my part, concerning cursed wands.
There's a reason to Engrave not Zap, but I can't think of the reason.
April 19, 2005 1:33:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"theKapn" <thekapn1310@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1113857711.781657.137730@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> james wrote:
>> I may be the only one with this much bad luck, but I have found the
>> castle wand at 0:1, engraved with it once, wished for the 2 blessed
>> scrolls of charging (got 1), and then engraved again, and the wand
>> evaporated. (Wrested the last charge.)
>
> Why would you engrave with a wand of wishing more than once?

Why not?
April 19, 2005 1:35:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"theKapn" <thekapn1310@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1113859235.938393.302050@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

>
> james wrote:
>> In article <1113857711.781657.137730@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>> theKapn <thekapn1310@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Why would you engrave with a wand of wishing more than once?
>>
>> To get the next wish, of course.
>
> I'm no source diver, but I always just zap the wand to get a wish after
> the first engrave test. Does engraving with the wand increase the
> chances or evaporating if all charges have been used up?

No, but I believe it does reomove the chance of the wand explodeing if it
is cursed.
April 19, 2005 4:46:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <yy7ok6mzwxsn.fsf@css.css.sfu.ca>,
Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:

>Hmm, you appear to be correct -- it looks like a cursed zapped wand has a
>1% chance of exploding, but engraving with it bypasses this check.

A bug, perhaps? I knew there was a reason. I think this highly
unlikely phenomenon ruined a game for me once.
April 19, 2005 4:54:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Matthew Lahut wrote:
> 6) save for a rubber chicken for master kaen

Please don't. Or well you can wish for it, but definitely not for Master
Kaen. For him, potion of paralysis and a ring of free action are much,
much better choices.

James wrote:
>> C - a scroll labeled READ ME (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)
> If that's charging, you can use the first wish on a blessed magic
> marker instead.

Cannot be charging with only 10 Cha.
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 10:15:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Knnn <knnn@go.com> wrote:

> I'm not very experienced, but I do believe that if you wish for the
> Key it might zap you even if you're chaotic.

It does, for 4d10 IIRC.

-Heikki
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 3:06:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Anomaly wrote:
> Matthew Lahut wrote:
>
>>6) save for a rubber chicken for master kaen
>
> Please don't. Or well you can wish for it, but definitely not for Master
> Kaen. For him, potion of paralysis and a ring of free action are much,
> much better choices.

Especially since quest nemeses are stoning-resistant.
April 19, 2005 3:38:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Many a person wrote:
<lots of snippage of good ideas>


Well, after reading replies, and then playing a little, I've done the
following with my wand:

1. 2 Blessed scrolls of charging
2. Blessed greased rustproof +3 boots of speed (got +3)
3. Blessed greased rustproof +3 helm of brilliance (got +0)
4. Blessed spellbook of identify
5. Blessed master key of theivery (blasted me down to 5hps)

Identify is around 80% failure at this point.

I ventured into the mines, and the first level was dark. Wandered
around with my pet cat, smacking around Gnomes and Dwarfs, eventually
finding the downstairs. The next level was dark, so:

6. Blessed spellbook of light

While in the long run, this may have been a waste of a wish, I feel it
was a very good choice. It let me light up the mines (all levels down
to minetown were dark, and minetown is grotto town, with lots of dark
areas). Plus, casting light exercises Divination, which once I hit
basic at, I could cast Identify at 0%.

I have the last wish saved, but I've just hit minetown, so until I find
out what is here, I'll save it. Minetown appears to be a bones file, as
within a few turns of arriving, I was surrounded by lots of wolves, and
countless killer bees. The master key really helped here, as I was able
to kill them all, without taking much damage. I'll have to look around
and see if the shops have been looted, and what alignment the altar is,
but so far this game is going great :) 

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions.

Mike
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 9:07:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Wow, been up one day and there's 18 replies?!

I'm surprised no one's suggested the old standby, that is some type of
DSM. I've mentioned before around these parts that I've always
considered the stereotypical first wish to be blessed +2 gray dragon
scale mail. It's the best single source of AC in the game, it's light
so it means you can carry more without being burdened (so less running
to the stash if you even need one), it doesn't restrict spellcasting,
and it supplies magic resistance in a way that means you can still wear
a robe or cloak of protection/displacement/invisibility.

Even if gray isn't chosen, there's always silver. I'm wondering now
why no one else suggested this. Do you guys know something I don't?

- John "feeling insecure now" H.

Mike wrote:
> Disclaimer - I posted this a few days ago via Google's beta
interface,
> and have yet to see it show up on that or the old one, so I'm
> reposting. If this really did propogate, my apologies.
> ---
>
> I'm in a situation I've never encountered before. I'm on dungeon
level
> 2, and have in my monk's stash a (0:3) wand of wishing. I've died a
> few times with unidentified wands in my inventory, but I've yet to
> actually identify a wand of wishing before the castle (and I've only
> hit a castle a handful of times).
>
> As you can see below, I have little more than the starting inventory.
> Dungeon level 2 had a general store with an id scroll in it, so I did
> what I always do in that situation, and gathered up everything of
> worth in the shop. I started with an uncursed scroll, so I read the
> one from the shop hoping it would be blessed and I'd get lucky and do
> a full inventory id. I received 3 ids, and the first 2 went towards a
> soft gem and wand that had been in the shop. The 3rd one I used to id
> the wand I had found lying on the ground right near the upstairs.
> Imagine my shock when it came back as wand of wishing (0:3) :) 
>
> I'll use the first wish for 3 blessed scrolls of charging, and
> probably boots of speed after that. I'm Chaotic, so I'm thinking that
> the Key would be nice to have. I don't have magic resistance though,
> so an amulet of reflection and cloak of magic resistance could prove
> to be very useful. Magicbane would solve the magic resistance
problem,
> as would the eyes if I can live that far :)  Even something simple
like
> a magic whistle could prove useful. I would love to have a blessed
> spellbook of identify, but I don't know what the failure rate would
> be. Perhaps combined with a helm of brilliance I could cast Identify
> at an acceptable rate. And then of course Gauntlets of Dexterity
would
> help out a lot with my martial arts damage, while a blessed bag of
> holding would mean I could carry a ton of loot around. And if I
tackle
> the mines, some form of light would be nice, as being a human monk I
> lack infravision.
>
> I have far too many options, and things that I would like, but some
of
> them I might pick up in mine town or Sokoban.
>
> My plea to the group, help me spend some wishes :) 
>
>
> ----
>
> Kyphros the Candidate St:18/01 Dx:11 Co:11 In:11 Wi:13
Ch:10
> Chaotic
> Dlvl:2 $:0 HP:24(24) Pw:12(12) AC:4 Xp:2/39 T:948
>
> Armor
> a - a blessed +2 pair of leather gloves (being worn)
> b - an uncursed +1 robe (being worn)
> Comestibles
> f - 4 uncursed food rations
> g - 5 uncursed apples
> h - 6 uncursed oranges
> i - 3 uncursed fortune cookies
> l - 3 food rations
> n - a guava
> o - 3 eggs (unpaid, 36 zorkmids)
> p - a tripe ration (unpaid, 20 zorkmids)
> Scrolls
> d - an uncursed scroll of identify
> r - a scroll labeled PRIRUTSENIE (unpaid, 133 zorkmids)
> u - a scroll labeled ANDOVA BEGARIN (unpaid, 133 zorkmids)
> A - a scroll labeled VENZAR BORGAVVE (unpaid, 133 zorkmids)
> C - a scroll labeled READ ME (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)
> D - a scroll labeled FOOBIE BLETCH (unpaid, 106 zorkmids)
> E - a scroll labeled TEMOV (unpaid, 106 zorkmids)
> Spellbooks
> c - a blessed spellbook of protection
> Potions
> e - 3 uncursed potions of healing
> j - an emerald potion
> m - a clear potion
> w - a murky potion (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)
> x - a smoky potion (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)
> z - an emerald potion (unpaid, 66 zorkmids)
> B - a brown potion (unpaid, 266 zorkmids)
> Wands
> k - a wand of wishing (0:3)
> Tools
> s - a lock pick (unpaid, 26 zorkmids)
April 20, 2005 1:12:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1113935916.706664.53310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
Mike <kyphros@gmail.com> wrote:

>6. Blessed spellbook of light
>
>While in the long run, this may have been a waste of a wish

In the *long* long run, all spellbooks are a waste, since they are more
or less a surplus item that you hope *not* to get (when praying for
golden glows and protection, and all you get is a spellbook).

But light can lead to survival and survival is worth a wish.

I guess you're playing a human character? (no infravision?)
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 6:54:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

John H. wrote:

> I'm surprised no one's suggested the old standby, that is some type of
> DSM.
[...]
> Even if gray isn't chosen, there's always silver. I'm wondering now
> why no one else suggested this. Do you guys know something I don't?

The OP specified that his character is a monk. Monks and body
armor don't get along. It's doable late-game, but early on, it's not
really an option.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 2:04:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In news:<hve9e.39795$A31.25055@fed1read03>, james
<fishbowl@conservatory.com> says...
> In article <1113935916.706664.53310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> Mike <kyphros@gmail.com> wrote:
> >6. Blessed spellbook of light
> >While in the long run, this may have been a waste of a wish
> In the *long* long run, all spellbooks are a waste, since they are more
> or less a surplus item that you hope *not* to get (when praying for
> golden glows and protection, and all you get is a spellbook).
> But light can lead to survival and survival is worth a wish.
> I guess you're playing a human character? (no infravision?)

In news:<8f5ca221.0504180959.46457bbe@posting.google.com>, the OP
said...
<snipsnip>
> And if I tackle the mines, some form of light would be nice, as
> being a human monk I lack infravision.
<snipsnip>

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Bssrevat n havpbea n jbeguyrff cvrpr bs tynff zvtug cebir gb or sngny!
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 6:58:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

John Campbell wrote:

> John H. wrote:
>
>> I'm surprised no one's suggested the old standby, that is some type
>> of DSM.
> [...]
>> Even if gray isn't chosen, there's always silver. I'm wondering
>> now
>> why no one else suggested this. Do you guys know something I
>> don't?
>
> The OP specified that his character is a monk. Monks and body
> armor don't get along. It's doable late-game, but early on, it's not
> really an option.
>
I suggested it in combination with the kick command, but it seems most
people don't like to do that. I do admit that pressing K all the time
for combat can become a pain in the ass sometimes.
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 7:51:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

jorge estrada wrote:
> John Campbell wrote:
>
>>The OP specified that his character is a monk. Monks and body
>>armor don't get along. It's doable late-game, but early on, it's not
>>really an option.
>>
>
> I suggested it in combination with the kick command, but it seems most
> people don't like to do that. I do admit that pressing K all the time
> for combat can become a pain in the ass sometimes.

I wasn't aware that kicking avoids the monk body armor penalty,
but I've tried kicking a few times lately for other reasons (trying to
preserve weaponless conduct while using Magicbane for MR, for example),
and decided it's not really practical. For one thing, it wakes sleeping
monsters in the vicinity. More importantly, though, it doesn't seem to
do as much damage as regular weaponless attacking. None of my monks have
happened to get stethoscopes, so I haven't got hard numbers for it, and
I've been too lazy to dive into the source to check it, but - except for
the one who got lucky and found kicking boots (huh, never thought I'd
use the words "lucky" and "kicking boots" together in a sentence) - it
seems to take a lot longer to kill things by kicking.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
April 20, 2005 9:04:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1113955679.829939.272380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
John H. <JohnWH@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Wow, been up one day and there's 18 replies?!

You should see how it is on IRC. Get in a situation, and as many people
look at your game and kibitz.

Ususally by the time a question is fully answered on the newsgroup, the
game is long past the situation (or ended...)
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 12:20:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

John Campbell wrote:

> jorge estrada wrote:
>> John Campbell wrote:
>>
>>>The OP specified that his character is a monk. Monks and body
>>>armor don't get along. It's doable late-game, but early on, it's
>>>not really an option.
>>>
>>
>> I suggested it in combination with the kick command, but it seems
>> most people don't like to do that. I do admit that pressing K all
>> the time for combat can become a pain in the ass sometimes.
>
> I wasn't aware that kicking avoids the monk body armor penalty,
> but I've tried kicking a few times lately for other reasons (trying
> to preserve weaponless conduct while using Magicbane for MR, for
> example), and decided it's not really practical. For one thing, it
> wakes sleeping monsters in the vicinity. More importantly, though,
> it doesn't seem to do as much damage as regular weaponless

That depends what you kick and what the enchantment on your boots are
(they don't need to be kicking boots.) Thick skinned monsters don't
take as much damage. Overall though on average, the damage comes out
to the same. Do a google search as someone in the past did look at
the source and told the group exactly what happens (bruce Labbate i
think)

> attacking. None of my monks have happened to get stethoscopes, so I
> haven't got hard numbers for it, and I've been too lazy to dive into
> the source to check it, but - except for the one who got lucky and
> found kicking boots (huh, never thought I'd use the words "lucky"
> and "kicking boots" together in a sentence) - it seems to take a lot
> longer to kill things by kicking.

Also, even when you don't have armor there are things that have to
high an AC which can't be hit normally but can be hit with the kick
command. Think lvl 3 barb vs a ghost.

However, we were talking about a low level monk with an early wish.
Even if kicking does less damage it still allows you to do decent
damage while wearing GSDM and a shield and you still can get the
stunning special attack. Kicking will also exercise martial arts so
you don't have to worry about not advancing it.

Jorge
!