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[YANI] BoH and Wand of Cancellation

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Anonymous
April 29, 2005 5:16:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Pleeeeeeeease add a request when trying to put a Wand of Cancelation
in a BoH.
Just lost Ring of Teleport,Ring of Teleport Control,Amulet of
Reflection(Thank god I have the SoR),all my wands,a lot of scrolls and
potions,not to speak of my entire food stock,now being hungry without
food at top level of Sokoban.

*sigh*

Meldur

More about : yani boh wand cancellation

Anonymous
April 29, 2005 5:16:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Meldur wrote:
> Pleeeeeeeease add a request when trying to put a Wand of Cancelation
> in a BoH.
> Just lost Ring of Teleport,Ring of Teleport Control,Amulet of
> Reflection(Thank god I have the SoR),all my wands,a lot of scrolls
and
> potions,not to speak of my entire food stock,now being hungry without
> food at top level of Sokoban.
>
> *sigh*

There is a warning about BoH accidents, and you've just had it: Believe
me, you won't do it again...
April 29, 2005 5:16:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Meldur" <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:eg54711ekor40hpmibuevovmmvp9k5hppa@4ax.com...
>
> Pleeeeeeeease add a request when trying to put a Wand of Cancelation
> in a BoH.
> Just lost Ring of Teleport,Ring of Teleport Control,Amulet of
> Reflection(Thank god I have the SoR),all my wands,a lot of scrolls and
> potions,not to speak of my entire food stock,now being hungry without
> food at top level of Sokoban.

I doubt this is a *new* idea :) 

But why should Nethack hold your hand every step of the way? You were aware
of the risks, I assume - you could have taken steps to prevent this kind of
accident.. keeping all wands that have been engrave-id'ed as possible
cancellation in a separate sack, naming the wand something obvious to make
it stand out in your inventory, even going so far as to not carry wands of
cancellation with you at all..

If you start warning people about things like this, it sets a dangerous
precedent;

"Are you sure you want to directly attack the floating eye? (y/n)"
"Are you sure you want to eat that fortune cookie? You are satiated, you
know.. (y/n)"
"This amulet is unidentified, are you sure you want to wear it? (y/n)"

Nethack isn't a kids game, you have to roll with the punches, and accept
when *you* have done something wrong.

Cheers,

Ben
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Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:23:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:48:28 GMT, "Ben" <benashmead@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Meldur" <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in message
>news:eg54711ekor40hpmibuevovmmvp9k5hppa@4ax.com...
>>
>> Pleeeeeeeease add a request when trying to put a Wand of Cancelation
>> in a BoH.
>> Just lost Ring of Teleport,Ring of Teleport Control,Amulet of
>> Reflection(Thank god I have the SoR),all my wands,a lot of scrolls and
>> potions,not to speak of my entire food stock,now being hungry without
>> food at top level of Sokoban.
>
>I doubt this is a *new* idea :) 

I know,message was made out of frustration. :) 
This game was developing very well,already visited Minetown,bought
some protection,had 3 *leashed* pets,made it to Sokoban top level,all
this still being only level 5,oh well,not all is lost,at least it was
not a YASD.

>But why should Nethack hold your hand every step of the way? You were aware
>of the risks, I assume - you could have taken steps to prevent this kind of
>accident.. keeping all wands that have been engrave-id'ed as possible
>cancellation in a separate sack, naming the wand something obvious to make
>it stand out in your inventory, even going so far as to not carry wands of
>cancellation with you at all..

Hard to do,if you just found it. :) 

>
>If you start warning people about things like this, it sets a dangerous
>precedent;
>"Are you sure you want to directly attack the floating eye? (y/n)"
>"Are you sure you want to eat that fortune cookie? You are satiated, you
>know.. (y/n)"
>"This amulet is unidentified, are you sure you want to wear it? (y/n)"

Hm,but there are already warnings to keep you from doing stupid things
like attacking shopkeepers or other peaceful dungeon inhabitants.
And I see a difference between putting on an *unidentified* item like
the aforementioned amulet and simple oversights like putting an
*identified* WoC in a BoH.


Meldur
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:23:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Meldur wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:48:28 GMT, "Ben" <benashmead@gmail.com> wrote:

*snip*

>
>>If you start warning people about things like this, it sets a dangerous
>>precedent;
>>"Are you sure you want to directly attack the floating eye? (y/n)"
>>"Are you sure you want to eat that fortune cookie? You are satiated, you
>>know.. (y/n)"
>>"This amulet is unidentified, are you sure you want to wear it? (y/n)"
>
>
> Hm,but there are already warnings to keep you from doing stupid things
> like attacking shopkeepers or other peaceful dungeon inhabitants.
> And I see a difference between putting on an *unidentified* item like
> the aforementioned amulet and simple oversights like putting an
> *identified* WoC in a BoH.
>

Using your counter-example, should the dev team also make a change for a
player wielding Stormbringer, like "You are about to risk attacking
peaceful creatures, are you *really sure* you want to wield this blade?"
Honestly, where do you expect the line to be drawn?

-Ken
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:23:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:23:37 +0200, Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:48:28 GMT, "Ben" <benashmead@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Meldur" <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in message
>>news:eg54711ekor40hpmibuevovmmvp9k5hppa@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Pleeeeeeeease add a request when trying to put a Wand of Cancelation
>>> in a BoH.
>>> Just lost Ring of Teleport,Ring of Teleport Control,Amulet of
>>> Reflection(Thank god I have the SoR),all my wands,a lot of scrolls and
>>> potions,not to speak of my entire food stock,now being hungry without
>>> food at top level of Sokoban.
>>
>>I doubt this is a *new* idea :) 
>
>I know,message was made out of frustration. :) 
>This game was developing very well,already visited Minetown,bought
>some protection,had 3 *leashed* pets,made it to Sokoban top level,all
>this still being only level 5,oh well,not all is lost,at least it was
>not a YASD.
>
>>But why should Nethack hold your hand every step of the way? You were aware
>>of the risks, I assume - you could have taken steps to prevent this kind of
>>accident.. keeping all wands that have been engrave-id'ed as possible
>>cancellation in a separate sack, naming the wand something obvious to make
>>it stand out in your inventory, even going so far as to not carry wands of
>>cancellation with you at all..
>
>Hard to do,if you just found it. :) 
>
>>
>>If you start warning people about things like this, it sets a dangerous
>>precedent;
>>"Are you sure you want to directly attack the floating eye? (y/n)"
>>"Are you sure you want to eat that fortune cookie? You are satiated, you
>>know.. (y/n)"
>>"This amulet is unidentified, are you sure you want to wear it? (y/n)"
>
>Hm,but there are already warnings to keep you from doing stupid things
>like attacking shopkeepers or other peaceful dungeon inhabitants.
>And I see a difference between putting on an *unidentified* item like
>the aforementioned amulet and simple oversights like putting an
>*identified* WoC in a BoH.
>
>

This looks like a relatively way to add difficulty levels to the game.
To the guy who's not going to do it, anyway.

At difficulty Novice you get warned about everything, & prompted
to continue, with paranoid confirmation ("yes") required, etc.
Warnings include #conducts (if not broken),

Even standing still:
"Are you sure you want to rest "." while that Archon is hitting
you with the +9 Sunsword?(Yes/No)"
Note that "no" is also required to be spelled out because a
"no" answer will halve your final score.


Difficulty Fair, fewer lower(higher?) warnings

Difficulty Good, lets you attack the floating eye while saying
"That probably wasn't a good idea." No conduct help.

Expert, no warnings at all

Difficulty level Marvin, if there's a floating eye adjacent attacks it
(without player intervention) until the player is paralyzed by
its gaze. (unless player has reflection, wearing ring of FA(?),
etc.) Better kill them all from a distance.
- summoned a peaceful Juiblex so you won't have to face s/h/it
in Gehennom? Automatically attack if in melee distance or
lined up for ranged attack & have ranged attack.


On april 1, "Are you sure you want to hit the newt?" should come
up every so often when attacking a newt, no matter the difficulty level.
Chickening out would still count.



Every time you don't continue when warned, increment the counter
you_chickened_out.


At the end of the game, ascended or not, Difficulty level be recorded
in the score file. It will also be displayed with any conducts reported
(in game or after).



Final score will be divided by (2 raised to the power of you_chickened_out).

Use 1 warning to keep from doing something, your score is halved.
Use 5? score is divided by 32.
Use 100 (newbie type) score is divided by 2**100
(1267650600228229401496703205376.)
Whole new aspect to lowest scoring ascension on /dev/null.



nethack servers & the /dev/null tournament now can have separate trophies
for "highest scoring Novice", etc.

Say, the top ten in any difficulty level won't get their scores recorded
at that difficulty level or below, in a vain attempt to keep people
from playing below their difficulty level to do score stuffing.

If you scored in the top ten in a difficulty level on /dev/null
in a previous tournament, any tournament game you play at that
difficulty level or below will be eligible for a trophy, top-scoring
list, etc.

You can still play that level or below, just not have it show up
in top score lists or win a trophy. So you can still play just
for your own satisfaction.

An extreme abuse would be an Expert level player abusing the system
to get high scores in of Novice one year, Fair the next, & Good
the last. Only after that would they be "forced" to play Expert level.
They could expect to have their games examined as well.
"The decision of the judges is final."

Should be some way of using this to have meaningful difficulty
level trophies/top ten score lists on servers.

Yes, it can be abused. But mostly by players with no available
previous history. And some abuses will be obvious. A Novice game
scoring 2,000,000,000 points should probably be looked at.


Jove
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 9:35:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> writes:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:48:28 GMT, "Ben" <benashmead@gmail.com> wrote:

> >accident.. keeping all wands that have been engrave-id'ed as possible
> >cancellation in a separate sack, naming the wand something obvious to make
> >it stand out in your inventory, even going so far as to not carry wands of
> >cancellation with you at all..

> Hard to do,if you just found it. :) 

Not so hard. You had just found the wand, didn't yet know what it is,
didn't know cancellation yet, and certainly had NOT identified as a wand
of SOMETHING-ELSE-BUT-CANCELLATION.
Now you know what you should NEVER do with wands that MIGHT be
cancellation.

--
Jukka Lahtinen
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 9:35:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 29 Apr 2005 17:35:32 +0300, Jukka Lahtinen <jukkal@despammed.com>
wrote:

>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> writes:
>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:48:28 GMT, "Ben" <benashmead@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >accident.. keeping all wands that have been engrave-id'ed as possible
>> >cancellation in a separate sack, naming the wand something obvious to make
>> >it stand out in your inventory, even going so far as to not carry wands of
>> >cancellation with you at all..
>
>> Hard to do,if you just found it. :) 
>
>Not so hard. You had just found the wand, didn't yet know what it is,
>didn't know cancellation yet, and certainly had NOT identified as a wand
>of SOMETHING-ELSE-BUT-CANCELLATION.
>Now you know what you should NEVER do with wands that MIGHT be
>cancellation.

I had it identified,being a Priest with Identify spell,and thats my
point,a simple oversight punished inappropriate hard.This has nothing
to do with being skilled in playing Nethack.

Meldur
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 9:35:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> writes:
> On 29 Apr 2005 17:35:32 +0300, Jukka Lahtinen <jukkal@despammed.com>
> wrote:

[WoC/BoH accident]

> >Now you know what you should NEVER do with wands that MIGHT be
> >cancellation.
>
> I had it identified,being a Priest with Identify spell,and thats my
> point,a simple oversight punished inappropriate hard.This has nothing
> to do with being skilled in playing Nethack.

The opposing view is that constant attention to Avoiding Momentary
Idiocy _is_ one of the skills NetHack demands.

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Peek-a-boo, I can't see you, everything must be grand; :
: Boo-ka-pee, you can't see me, as long as I've got me head in t'sand..." :
: -- Michael Flanders, "The Ostrich" :
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 11:02:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
news:9hk471tpisbsin4l9ggpg92dvnp2nervn0@4ax.com:

> I had it identified,being a Priest with Identify spell,and thats my
> point,a simple oversight punished inappropriate hard.This has nothing
> to do with being skilled in playing Nethack.

There's a difference between punishment and consequences.

If the wand was unidentified or if you just engraved and realized the
writing on the floor vanishes then #name the wand DEAR GOD NO BAG OF
HOLDING.

If you're going to consider this punishment, I'd hate to think what you
consider being nibbled to death by a newt after striking a floating eye
without a towel/"oR/blindfold.
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 2:45:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Meldur wrote:

> This game was developing very well,already visited Minetown,bought
> some protection,had 3 *leashed* pets,made it to Sokoban top level,all
> this still being only level 5,oh well,not all is lost,at least it was
> not a YASD.

You know, the character you have now is still a lot better than that
level 1 character you originally started with...

Just pretend you're starting anew, with a better than average character!

>> But why should Nethack hold your hand every step of the way? You
>> were aware of the risks, I assume - you could have taken steps to
>> prevent this kind of accident.. keeping all wands that have been
>> engrave-id'ed as possible cancellation in a separate sack, naming
>> the wand something obvious to make it stand out in your inventory,
>> even going so far as to not carry wands of cancellation with you at
>> all..

> Hard to do,if you just found it. :) 

How so?

Why is is more difficult to drop a wand if you just found it, compared
to when you've had it with you for thousands of turns?

> Hm,but there are already warnings to keep you from doing stupid things
> like attacking shopkeepers or other peaceful dungeon inhabitants.

Not always: Stormbringer is an exception to the rule. And you could even
make this a conduct, by setting the "noconfirm" option.

In my first Slash'em game, I accidentally attacked a shopkeeper because
I had stupidly not set that option.

> And I see a difference between putting on an *unidentified* item like
> the aforementioned amulet and simple oversights like putting an
> *identified* WoC in a BoH.

To add insult to injury, I wouldn't call this a "simple" oversight. I'd
call it a gross error. :-)

Happy hacking!

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 2:48:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Meldur wrote:

> I had it identified,being a Priest with Identify spell,and thats my
> point,a simple oversight punished inappropriate hard.This has nothing
> to do with being skilled in playing Nethack.

I don't agree with this.

One of the main skills at playing NetHack is exactly that: avoiding
"simple" oversights.

NetHack gives you all the time you want or need to carefully think about
what you do: use that time, and don't do anything hasty.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 4:15:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
> Meldur wrote:
> > Pleeeeeeeease add a request when trying to put a Wand of
Cancelation
> > in a BoH.

> There is a warning about BoH accidents, and you've just had it:
Believe
> me, you won't do it again...

You say that. I managed to destroy three bags in one game and currently
show no signs of getting any smarter. Lord knows how I have managed to
ascend any characters at all :) 
May 11, 2005 5:14:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Haakon Studebaker wrote:

>>I had it identified,being a Priest with Identify spell,and thats my
>>point,a simple oversight punished inappropriate hard.This has nothing
>>to do with being skilled in playing Nethack.
>
> There's a difference between punishment and consequences.
>
> If the wand was unidentified or if you just engraved and realized the
> writing on the floor vanishes then #name the wand DEAR GOD NO BAG OF
> HOLDING.

And I thought mine were the only adventurers with varieties of "FOR THE
LOVE OF GOD, NOT IN THE BAG" on all their cancellation wands.
!