YANI: An Adventurer's Journal

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I don't know about you gentle folk, but I like to get totally immersed when
I am in the dungeon. I also like to keep notes. Switching to a text-editor
every few minutes to update my notes has the unhappy side-effect of
displaying my desktop, complete with work, inbox, clock etc.

I would much rather press something like ^j and have a page pop up within
the game. It doesn't need flashy fonts and nifty spell-checkers - it doesn't
even need a word-wrap or an inventory slot. Just somewhere in-game to jot
some notes. The journal is for me, rather than my character, so it should
take zero turns to write in the journal.

Maybe at the end of the game (for better or for worse), you could have the
option of reading it.

Extending this thought, maybe the journals of ex-adventurers could transfer
to them, and appear in bones files: 'a monogrammed diary'. When identified,
it could appear as 'Foo the Barbarian's diary'. It should be immune to
poly-ing/cancellation etc, and worth nothing to shopkeepers. It blurs the
distinction between player and character, but I think you should be able to
use the diary, and maintain illiterate conduct.

On a big server, this could promote a sense of community - a link with those
who have gone before.

Journals would contain useless (but possibly fun) information about other
levels, and maybe dire warnings about the player's current dungeon level. It
could also contain (dis)information about what other goodies to expect in
the bones pile. These notes could also contain spoilers, abuse, whatever
people want to write. Unbalancing?

Even if it evaporates with the save file, an in-game journal would be a big
help to me.
Thoughts?
Fraser

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I think there are some nice ideas in here.

Fraser Rolfe wrote:
> I don't know about you gentle folk, but I like to get totally immersed when
> I am in the dungeon. I also like to keep notes. Switching to a text-editor
> every few minutes to update my notes has the unhappy side-effect of
> displaying my desktop, complete with work, inbox, clock etc.
>
> I would much rather press something like ^j and have a page pop up within
> the game. It doesn't need flashy fonts and nifty spell-checkers - it doesn't
> even need a word-wrap or an inventory slot. Just somewhere in-game to jot
> some notes. The journal is for me, rather than my character, so it should
> take zero turns to write in the journal.
>
> Maybe at the end of the game (for better or for worse), you could have the
> option of reading it.
>
> Extending this thought, maybe the journals of ex-adventurers could transfer
> to them, and appear in bones files: 'a monogrammed diary'. When identified,
> it could appear as 'Foo the Barbarian's diary'. It should be immune to
> poly-ing/cancellation etc, and worth nothing to shopkeepers. It blurs the
> distinction between player and character, but I think you should be able to
> use the diary, and maintain illiterate conduct.
>
> On a big server, this could promote a sense of community - a link with those
> who have gone before.
>
> Journals would contain useless (but possibly fun) information about other
> levels, and maybe dire warnings about the player's current dungeon level. It
> could also contain (dis)information about what other goodies to expect in
> the bones pile. These notes could also contain spoilers, abuse, whatever
> people want to write. Unbalancing?
>
> Even if it evaporates with the save file, an in-game journal would be a big
> help to me.
> Thoughts?
> Fraser
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Fraser Rolfe wrote:
> Extending this thought, maybe the journals of ex-adventurers could transfer
> to them, and appear in bones files: 'a monogrammed diary'. When identified,
> it could appear as 'Foo the Barbarian's diary'. It should be immune to
> poly-ing/cancellation etc, and worth nothing to shopkeepers. It blurs the
> distinction between player and character, but I think you should be able to
> use the diary, and maintain illiterate conduct.

This is a cool idea but how long would it be before somebody started
putting ads for CHEAP V1AGRA into journals then running as far into the
dungeon as they could before dying?


Atillo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 11 May 2005, Fraser Rolfe wrote:

> I don't know about you gentle folk, but I like to get totally immersed when
> I am in the dungeon. I also like to keep notes. Switching to a text-editor
> every few minutes to update my notes has the unhappy side-effect of
> displaying my desktop, complete with work, inbox, clock etc.
>
> I would much rather press something like ^j and have a page pop up within
> the game. It doesn't need flashy fonts and nifty spell-checkers - it doesn't
> even need a word-wrap or an inventory slot. Just somewhere in-game to jot
> some notes. The journal is for me, rather than my character, so it should
> take zero turns to write in the journal.

Could be nice.

Could also be nice if the in-game journal included some 'dump' commands
from the game such as dumping stats, conducts, inventory, result of
enlightenment or similar stuff one usually copy/paste into his
journal/YAAP/... If it's in game, let's us take advantage of that.

> Maybe at the end of the game (for better or for worse), you could have the
> option of reading it.
>
> Extending this thought, maybe the journals of ex-adventurers could transfer
> to them, and appear in bones files: 'a monogrammed diary'. When identified,
> it could appear as 'Foo the Barbarian's diary'. It should be immune to
> poly-ing/cancellation etc, and worth nothing to shopkeepers. It blurs the
> distinction between player and character, but I think you should be able to
> use the diary, and maintain illiterate conduct.
>
> On a big server, this could promote a sense of community - a link with those
> who have gone before.
>
> Journals would contain useless (but possibly fun) information about other
> levels, and maybe dire warnings about the player's current dungeon level. It
> could also contain (dis)information about what other goodies to expect in
> the bones pile. These notes could also contain spoilers, abuse, whatever
> people want to write. Unbalancing?
>
> Even if it evaporates with the save file, an in-game journal would be a big
> help to me.
> Thoughts?
> Fraser
>
>
>

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Fraser Rolfe wrote:
> I don't know about you gentle folk, but I like to get totally
immersed when
> I am in the dungeon. I also like to keep notes. Switching to a
text-editor
> every few minutes to update my notes has the unhappy side-effect of
> displaying my desktop, complete with work, inbox, clock etc.
>
> I would much rather press something like ^j and have a page pop up
within
> the game.

This idea has been suggested numerous times before. Search Google
Groups for "journal" or "notebook" and you'll see previous debate. Many
people are enthusiatically for, many against. Personally I doubt it
will ever happen. The DevTeam are writing a _game_ and not an editor
after all. If there was a builtin editor, then there would be constant
feature requests to make it more like My Favorite Editor. And then
there would be My Favorite Editor holy wars.

> Journals would contain useless (but possibly fun) information about
other
> levels, and maybe dire warnings about the player's current dungeon
level. It
> could also contain (dis)information about what other goodies to
expect in
> the bones pile. These notes could also contain spoilers, abuse,
whatever
> people want to write. Unbalancing?

Some people don't like this idea, as it would make identifying the
contents of bones piles much easier.

Just use a piece of paper. Or name your items: a scroll of identify
called THERE'S A STASH ON L10 NEAR THE ALTAR"

Or do what I do, don't take any notes and die all the time. It seems to
work for me.

Malcolm

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Tillotson wrote:
> Fraser Rolfe wrote:
>
>> Extending this thought, maybe the journals of ex-adventurers could
>> transfer
>> to them, and appear in bones files: 'a monogrammed diary'. When
>> identified,
>> it could appear as 'Foo the Barbarian's diary'. It should be immune to
>> poly-ing/cancellation etc, and worth nothing to shopkeepers. It blurs the
>> distinction between player and character, but I think you should be
>> able to
>> use the diary, and maintain illiterate conduct.
>
>
> This is a cool idea but how long would it be before somebody started
> putting ads for CHEAP V1AGRA into journals then running as far into the
> dungeon as they could before dying?
>
>
> Atillo

That is unlikely.

There's also an ingame message system, but that doesn't get overrun with
ads.

There's also an IRC channel, but that doesn't get overrun with ads.

No advertiser is going to actually play the game just to get ONE person
to see an advertisement.

If they're going to put in that much effort, It'll probably be funny
enough not to annoy anyone. "I have some good news and some bad news.
The bad news is, there's Demogorgon, a Demilich, a Master Mind Flayer, a
Disenchanter, and a Green Slime somewhere on this level. The good news
is, I just saved tons of zorkmids by switching to Geico."

--
____ (__)
/ \ (oo) -Shadow
|Moo. > \/
\____/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:
> > Even if it evaporates with the save file, an in-game journal would
be a big
> > help to me.
> > Thoughts?
> > Fraser
> >
> >
> Well, if you use a DOS text editor (I assume your using win9x or XP
or
> NT/200X) you can just task switch between the two if they're both
maximized.
> There WAS an editor that came with 95 & 98 called edit (a kludge of
qbasic)
> and it MIGHT be in XP. If it isn't, there are plenty freeware ones.
Or if you
> want to go whole hog, switch to linux and you can just switch between

> consoles with <alt>-<left> and <alt>-<right>.

Some of you guys are clearly missing the OP's point. It's the
*immersion* effect. It's like having a bad jump-cut in the movie to
have to actually change out of the Nethack into some other method of
editor (including pen'n'paper). If one wants to have that *suspension
of disbelief* and actually engage the game as a fantasy dungeon
crawling experience, one wants to try to keep oneself from getting
distructed by outside influence. Thus, the in-game Journal idea.

I understand the idea behind it, but I agree with the sentiment that
"it's a low priority issue" since I actually don't view the game as a
very big fantasy experience game. I see it more of a solitaire I can
poke around. I'd rather see other parts of the game cleaned up/opened
up more before things like that get implemented.

-K

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Even if it evaporates with the save file, an in-game journal would be a big
> help to me.
> Thoughts?
> Fraser
>
>
Well, if you use a DOS text editor (I assume your using win9x or XP or
NT/200X) you can just task switch between the two if they're both maximized.
There WAS an editor that came with 95 & 98 called edit (a kludge of qbasic)
and it MIGHT be in XP. If it isn't, there are plenty freeware ones. Or if you
want to go whole hog, switch to linux and you can just switch between
consoles with <alt>-<left> and <alt>-<right>.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:

> Quoting Kremti <kremti@gmail.com>:
>> Some of you guys are clearly missing the OP's point. It's the
>> *immersion* effect. It's like having a bad jump-cut in the movie to
>> have to actually change out of the Nethack into some other method of
>> editor (including pen'n'paper).
>
> As opposed to all the other windows with NAO IRC, spoilers, source,
> etc. ?
>
> I do wonder if anyone actually immerses themselves in NetHAck...

I used to play exclusively on the linux console, before I found a nice big
IBMGraphics capable font for use in X.

I don't really see how Alt-switching to another console with an editor
makes the game less "immersive" than having the feature directly in-game.
In fact, I don't really see what the difference would be, at least in
linux, unless the OP is envisioning some interface that I'm not:

Currently:
- command to switch to editor (e.g. Alt-F2)
- make whatever notes you like
- command to switch back to NetHack (e.g. Alt-F1)

Proposed in-game interface (?)
- command to invoke editor (e.g. #journal)
- make whatever notes you like
- command to switch back to game proper (e.g. ^D)

Why is the former less immersive?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Kremti <kremti@gmail.com>:
>Some of you guys are clearly missing the OP's point. It's the
>*immersion* effect. It's like having a bad jump-cut in the movie to
>have to actually change out of the Nethack into some other method of
>editor (including pen'n'paper).

As opposed to all the other windows with NAO IRC, spoilers, source, etc. ?

I do wonder if anyone actually immerses themselves in NetHAck...
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Gloucesterday, May.

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Kremti" <kremti@gmail.com> wrote in > Some of you guys are clearly missing
the OP's point. It's the
> *immersion* effect. It's like having a bad jump-cut in the movie to
> have to actually change out of the Nethack into some other method of
> editor (including pen'n'paper). If one wants to have that *suspension
> of disbelief* and actually engage the game as a fantasy dungeon
> crawling experience, one wants to try to keep oneself from getting
> distructed by outside influence. Thus, the in-game Journal idea.
>
> I understand the idea behind it, but I agree with the sentiment that
> "it's a low priority issue" since I actually don't view the game as a
> very big fantasy experience game. I see it more of a solitaire I can
> poke around. I'd rather see other parts of the game cleaned up/opened
> up more before things like that get implemented.
If the eu wants a game that keeps notes WHILE displaying the game, yes you
have a point, IF that is possible with the amount of free screen space
nethack leaves (virtually nil). Otherwise I would suggest you actually try
what I suggested and see what it looks like. You get the nethack game, and
then when you switch you get your editor. In both cases nothing else appears
on the screen, hence no distractions. Alternatively you could try sidekick,
although this would work much better if you ran just in dos (superior method
of using microsoft software anyways...)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005, David Damerell wrote:

> Quoting Kremti <kremti@gmail.com>:
> >Some of you guys are clearly missing the OP's point. It's the
> >*immersion* effect. It's like having a bad jump-cut in the movie to
> >have to actually change out of the Nethack into some other method of
> >editor (including pen'n'paper).
>
> As opposed to all the other windows with NAO IRC, spoilers, source, etc. ?
>
> I do wonder if anyone actually immerses themselves in NetHAck...

Nethack 4.0 will soon be available with virtual reality vision helmet and
sensors. Of course, 'graphics' will stil be purely ascii in order to keep
compatibility (just put 4 screens around you and it's almost he same).

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:
> If the eu wants a game that keeps notes WHILE displaying the game, yes you
> have a point, IF that is possible with the amount of free screen space
> nethack leaves (virtually nil).

That depends on the screen resolution and font-size, I guess. If I play
nethack in the linux console, the status line is at about the middle of
the screen, so there's plenty of space for some notes. I even tried
using splitvt once to run nethack on the upper half of the tty and vim
on the lower, but it somehow screwed up nethack's ibm graphics, so it
didn't work out.

--
If geiger counter does not click,
the coffee, she is just not thick

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

unless the OP is envisioning some interface that I'm not:
>
> Currently:
> - command to switch to editor (e.g. Alt-F2)
> - make whatever notes you like
> - command to switch back to NetHack (e.g. Alt-F1)
>
> Proposed in-game interface (?)
> - command to invoke editor (e.g. #journal)
> - make whatever notes you like
> - command to switch back to game proper (e.g. ^D)
>
> Why is the former less immersive?
>
Nonsense: 1. start up editor and log 2. Maximize it. 3. <Crtl-esc> or <menu>
to start nethack. 4. Maximize it and start playing. 5. <alt>-<tab> any time
you want to switch to the other (either way).

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in news:d6alhn$8f9$00$1@news.t-
online.com:

> chuck wrote:
>> If the eu wants a game that keeps notes WHILE displaying the game, yes you
>> have a point, IF that is possible with the amount of free screen space
>> nethack leaves (virtually nil).
>
> That depends on the screen resolution and font-size, I guess. If I play
> nethack in the linux console, the status line is at about the middle of
> the screen, so there's plenty of space for some notes. I even tried
> using splitvt once to run nethack on the upper half of the tty and vim
> on the lower, but it somehow screwed up nethack's ibm graphics, so it
> didn't work out.
>

fair enough, but if you run vim you are probably running linux (or *nix at
least ;7{)) and can switch between consoles as I said in the other message.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:

> unless the OP is envisioning some interface that I'm not:
>>
>> Currently:
>> - command to switch to editor (e.g. Alt-F2)
>> - make whatever notes you like
>> - command to switch back to NetHack (e.g. Alt-F1)
>>
>> Proposed in-game interface (?)
>> - command to invoke editor (e.g. #journal)
>> - make whatever notes you like
>> - command to switch back to game proper (e.g. ^D)
>>
>> Why is the former less immersive?
>
> Nonsense: 1. start up editor and log 2. Maximize it. 3. <Crtl-esc> or
> <menu> to start nethack. 4. Maximize it and start playing. 5. <alt>-<tab>
> any time you want to switch to the other (either way).

Umm. What exactly are you saying is nonsense? Besides the fact that you
appear to be talking about Windows or possibly X rather than the linux
console, you seem to be saying the exact same thing as I was. I think you
must have missed my point.

It's a little ironic that you're accusing me of writing nonsense when for
once I'm essentially agreeing with you

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:

> Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote in
>> chuck wrote:
>>
>>> unless the OP is envisioning some interface that I'm not:
>
>> Umm. What exactly are you saying is nonsense? Besides the fact that
>> you appear to be talking about Windows or possibly X rather than the
>> linux console, you seem to be saying the exact same thing as I was. I
>> think you must have missed my point.
>>
>> It's a little ironic that you're accusing me of writing nonsense when
>> for once I'm essentially agreeing with you
>
> ok, yeah. but you don't have to do <alt-f?> just alt-left & alt right (if
> it's the next console why bother).

Whichever you like, it doesn't change the point. I generally have several
virtual desktops or consoles open, so I prefer the "direct addressing".

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:
> Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in news:d6alhn$8f9$00$1@news.t-
> online.com:
>> I even tried
>> using splitvt once to run nethack on the upper half of the tty and vim
>> on the lower, but it somehow screwed up nethack's ibm graphics, so it
>> didn't work out.
>
> fair enough, but if you run vim you are probably running linux (or *nix at
> least ;7{)) and can switch between consoles as I said in the other message.

Yes, but if I switch between the consoles I can't see my notes and the
map at the same time (not that this would be a very important issue...).

--
If geiger counter does not click,
the coffee, she is just not thick

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote in
news:yy7obr79db8v.fsf@css.css.sfu.ca:

> chuck wrote:
>
>> unless the OP is envisioning some interface that I'm not:

> Umm. What exactly are you saying is nonsense? Besides the fact that you
> appear to be talking about Windows or possibly X rather than the linux
> console, you seem to be saying the exact same thing as I was. I think you
> must have missed my point.
>
> It's a little ironic that you're accusing me of writing nonsense when for
> once I'm essentially agreeing with you
>
ok, yeah. but you don't have to do <alt-f?> just alt-left & alt right (if
it's the next console why bother).

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Yes, but if I switch between the consoles I can't see my notes and the
> map at the same time (not that this would be a very important issue...).
>
you can if you switch REALLY fast <grin>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 05/15/05 11:39 PM, Kremti wrote:

> Some of you guys are clearly missing the OP's point. It's the
> *immersion* effect. [snip] Thus, the in-game Journal idea.

I'm surprised no one's brought up Screen
(http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/) yet. Just run Nethack in one
window, load the spoilers in a second, and a journal in the third. Then
make sure the nethack option is enabled in your .screenrc and there's no
problem with lack of immersion.

(Another tip is to change the command character to something other than
Ctrl-A, since it's actually useful in Nethack and typing Ctrl-A a to
repeat a command is annoying.)

--
Chris "Bob" Odorjan - bobnet@canada.com
BobNET - http://www.execulink.com/~bobnet/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck <chucko@nil.car> wrote:

> fair enough, but if you run vim you are probably running linux (or *nix at
> least ;7{))
^^^^
(WTB kind of deformed smiley is _that_, btw?)

Not necessarily. There are implementations of vim for at least MS-DOS
and MS-Windows. (Of course, Windows users are likely to use something
better: Notepad )

Richard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Richard Bos wrote:
>
> Not necessarily. There are implementations of vim for at least MS-DOS
> and MS-Windows.

Indeed there are!

And the first thing I install on _any_ WinDos box I am forced to work on
is vim/gvim.

> (Of course, Windows users are likely to use something better: Notepad )

Argh!

Janis

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Janis Papanagnou <Janis_Papanagnou@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:d6dr31$55u$1@online.de:

> Richard Bos wrote:
>>
>> Not necessarily. There are implementations of vim for at least MS-DOS
>> and MS-Windows.
>
> Indeed there are!
>
> And the first thing I install on _any_ WinDos box I am forced to work on
> is vim/gvim.
not emacs or jed et al?
>
> Argh!
yupper!

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> I'm surprised no one's brought up Screen
> (http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/) yet. Just run Nethack in one
> window, load the spoilers in a second, and a journal in the third. Then
> make sure the nethack option is enabled in your .screenrc and there's no
> problem with lack of immersion.
>
> (Another tip is to change the command character to something other than
> Ctrl-A, since it's actually useful in Nethack and typing Ctrl-A a to
> repeat a command is annoying.)
>
Interesting, kind of like desqview was I guess.